Conquer Club

Ok everyone, I have been talking to a bunch of people lately and it looks like we have about all of the signups we are going to get. As of late tonight or tomorrow I will be allowing no new entries and will start the voting process which I would assume will take a week or more to get all organized. You will notice that both IA and TSM are still under the list as Reserved. To give them both some extra time, they will be included in the voting that will take place. But next week, when it comes time for me to create the bracket I will need to know for sure if they are in or not because it will decide how many play-in games need to be used. If they decide not to play then I will simply take them out of the seedings and slide everyone up 1 slot.

Here is how the votes and seedings will be decided:

I have created a panel of 3 players to review all of the votes. Those players will be myself, [player]Incandenza[/player] from THOTA, and [player]Foxglove[/player] from KORT. I made sure we were all 3 from different clans so everyone can trust that we aren't rigging anything in the seedings.

Either tonight or tomorrow morning I will send a Private message which will have both Incandenza and Foxglove copied on them. I will blind copy the team leader from every clan. The message will state all clans participating in the order I have them signing up on this forum. I will ask that every clan leader reply to the PM (which will only be copied to myself, Incandenza, and Foxglove) and give their HONEST opinion of what they think the rankings of each clan is. I will ask specifically that no one try to "skew" the results by putting themselves in #1 when they themselves don't really beleive they are #1 or by intentionally "tanking" another clan (i.e.. EMPIRE puts themselves at #1 and then puts THOTA, TOFU, TSM, IA, and KORT in 17-21). The 3 person panel exists to check and make sure none of the votes do this. If we feel someone is trying to abuse/skew the rankings then we will ask a leader for justification of his rankings, if the justification does not satisfy us then we will tell them we believe they are trying to skew the rankings and ask them to change them to an honest opinion, if they refuse to change them then the votes will be thrown out from that clan.

In doing this, we are not trying to enforce our opinions on the rankings on each clan but we will just be checking for any obvious abuses of the system. We ask to make this simple, everyone just give their HONEST opinions. It is what makes the tournament the most fair.

After we have all of the votes, I will figure the average of each clan in an excel sheet and rank the clans in order from lowest average to highest. I will show the excel sheet to both Incandenza and Foxglove (they will already have the votes) and they can verify my work is correct. After that I will post the averages and the seeds publicly on this forum. However, I will not post each individuals votes because I do not want this to become an argueing match over who voted what way. I would rather this be settled by playing games.

The intention of the panel from 3 different clans is to make you all confident that this is all ran in an honest manner and no one is getting cheated. I have asked that after the votes come in they none of us discuss who voted what way with anyone, even those inside their clan. I have already told my clan mates that I will not share this information with them.

Let me know if anyone has any questions, I look forward to getting this started.

P.S. [player]TheSpaceCowboy[/player] and I are coming up with rules and punishments on things to keep the games moving at a decent pace such as when games need to be sent by home team, when games need to be joined by away team and punishment for not doing these things on time. I will post these shortly.

Some of us in tsm tried to rally enough player to committ but it just isnt happening we have 4 players fully committed and 2 others semi committed with no promises. We jsut couldnt get enough interest sorry guys . GL to all clans involved and hope to be in this next year and hope for it to be a succsess.

@Chuck, why not simply have every leader discount their clan from voting? i first, will admit, i value Nemesis much more then any other leader, and that is, IMO, normal. so to avoid that, just have everyone voting for everyone, but themself


ps. so you DO like my Elvis?

Chuuuuck wrote:However, I will not post each individuals votes because I do not want this to become an argueing match over who voted what way. I would rather this be settled by playing games.

aye, couldnt agree more. we have too many huge egos here, so lets not let them play

Oh for f*ck sake 13 pages of shit, what a total bunch of wankers
If you wanna be in the tourney say "in" if not try shutting the f*ck up - most of these guys could start an argument in an empty house.

nippersean wrote:Oh for f*ck sake 13 pages of shit, what a total bunch of wankers
If you wanna be in the tourney say "in" if not try shutting the f*ck up - most of these guys could start an argument in an empty house.

…?

Anyway, I like the idea of not being able to vote for your clan.

Just dont allow people to vote for their own clan...

freakns wrote:@Chuck, why not simply have every leader discount their clan from voting? i first, will admit, i value Nemesis much more then any other leader, and that is, IMO, normal. so to avoid that, just have everyone voting for everyone, but themself

Sounds like the best idea.

It would save the modest leader that puts their clan realistically @ 12 from being penalised over the 14th clan leader voting their clan @ 6.

Namor wrote:

freakns wrote:@Chuck, why not simply have every leader discount their clan from voting? i first, will admit, i value Nemesis much more then any other leader, and that is, IMO, normal. so to avoid that, just have everyone voting for everyone, but themself

Sounds like the best idea.

It would save the modest leader that puts their clan realistically @ 12 from being penalised over the 14th clan leader voting their clan @ 6.

Ok, I agree. I will have clans not vote on themselves. But the panel will still be in place checking to make sure votes are realistic because just because a clan doesn't vote on themselves doesn't mean they can't tank others (i.e. EMPIRE votes THOTA, TSM, IA, KORT, and TOFU all at the very end.

Why not run with jpcloet's rankings? Just remove clans that aren't participating and adjust ranking

1 THOTA
2 The Spanking Monkeys
3 Legends of War
4 Immortal Assassins
5 EMPIRE
6 The Odd Fellows Union
7 Imperial Dragoons
8 ++The Legion++
9 Angels of Death
10 Bullet Proof Bandits
11 Black Sheep Squadron
12 Generation 1: The Clan
13 Knights of the Round Table
14 De Veroveraars der Lage Landen
15 Nemesis
16 Agents of Chaos
17 Divine Domination
18 Outlaws & Highwaymen
19 Mythology
20 Left4Dead
21 Dragon Lazorz Pew Pew
22 Soldiers of War
23 Death By Comity
24 Imperial Britain
25 Eternal Empire
26 Dark Defenders
27 Flame Whores
28 The Last Warriors
29 Grim Reapers
30 Brethren of the Fat Mermaid
31 Legends of The Zone
32 Gorgonzola Pirates
33 Karma Clan

hiddendragon wrote:Why not run with jpcloet's rankings? Just remove clans that aren't participating and adjust ranking

1 THOTA
2 The Spanking Monkeys
3 Legends of War
4 Immortal Assassins
5 EMPIRE
6 The Odd Fellows Union
7 Imperial Dragoons
8 ++The Legion++
9 Angels of Death
10 Bullet Proof Bandits
11 Black Sheep Squadron
12 Generation 1: The Clan
13 Knights of the Round Table
14 De Veroveraars der Lage Landen
15 Nemesis
16 Agents of Chaos
17 Divine Domination
18 Outlaws & Highwaymen
19 Mythology
20 Left4Dead
21 Dragon Lazorz Pew Pew
22 Soldiers of War
23 Death By Comity
24 Imperial Britain
25 Eternal Empire
26 Dark Defenders
27 Flame Whores
28 The Last Warriors
29 Grim Reapers
30 Brethren of the Fat Mermaid
31 Legends of The Zone
32 Gorgonzola Pirates
33 Karma Clan

Simple answer. Those rankings are/were constantly argued over what was wrong with them and why the system to make them didn't accurately represent where people should be. I don't want to bash them myself or say anything is wrong with them because I know Marval and jpcloet have done nothing but their best and I for one am very grateful of everything they do. The only problem I have with it for these tournaments is when a brand new clan would start, such as TOFU, it would take them forever to be ranked higher to the top in those rankings even though many of us know that they are much better than that and deserve to be seeded higher. So I wanted to vote each and every time that way each clan has the potential to be seeded where most people think they should be accurately rated at the time of that particular tournament instead of based strictly how they have played in the past.

Chuuuuck wrote:

Namor wrote:

freakns wrote:@Chuck, why not simply have every leader discount their clan from voting? i first, will admit, i value Nemesis much more then any other leader, and that is, IMO, normal. so to avoid that, just have everyone voting for everyone, but themself

Sounds like the best idea.

It would save the modest leader that puts their clan realistically @ 12 from being penalised over the 14th clan leader voting their clan @ 6.

Ok, I agree. I will have clans not vote on themselves. But the panel will still be in place checking to make sure votes are realistic because just because a clan doesn't vote on themselves doesn't mean they can't tank others (i.e. EMPIRE votes THOTA, TSM, IA, KORT, and TOFU all at the very end.

Why dont you just make people vote in public? That way clans will have their reputation at stake should they try to do some rigging. I think it should remain entirely subjective whether or not someone wants to vote THOTA as the worst clan on the site.

Chuuuuck wrote:I apologize. I just checked the clan records and I was wrong. Grim Reapers do not qualify this year. They have 0 clan wars completed with at least 40 games. They are about to finish up 1, but they have not even started a 2nd. I made an exception for Divine Domination because they are more than halfway through their second one and should be over 40 games by the time we start this, but with GR not even starting one yet, I do not think I can make that same exception for them. Hopefully you will have more wars under your belt and can participate next time!

I have also checked Legends of the Zone. They qualify and I will add their name shortly.

No worries. Thanks for the consideration.

On Behalf of the Reapers,

Cheers.

E.

Chuuuuck wrote:

hiddendragon wrote:Why not run with jpcloet's rankings? Just remove clans that aren't participating and adjust ranking

1 THOTA
2 The Spanking Monkeys
3 Legends of War
4 Immortal Assassins
5 EMPIRE
6 The Odd Fellows Union
7 Imperial Dragoons
8 ++The Legion++
9 Angels of Death
10 Bullet Proof Bandits
11 Black Sheep Squadron
12 Generation 1: The Clan
13 Knights of the Round Table
14 De Veroveraars der Lage Landen
15 Nemesis
16 Agents of Chaos
17 Divine Domination
18 Outlaws & Highwaymen
19 Mythology
20 Left4Dead
21 Dragon Lazorz Pew Pew
22 Soldiers of War
23 Death By Comity
24 Imperial Britain
25 Eternal Empire
26 Dark Defenders
27 Flame Whores
28 The Last Warriors
29 Grim Reapers
30 Brethren of the Fat Mermaid
31 Legends of The Zone
32 Gorgonzola Pirates
33 Karma Clan

Simple answer. Those rankings are/were constantly argued over what was wrong with them and why the system to make them didn't accurately represent where people should be. I don't want to bash them myself or say anything is wrong with them because I know Marval and jpcloet have done nothing but their best and I for one am very grateful of everything they do. The only problem I have with it for these tournaments is when a brand new clan would start, such as TOFU, it would take them forever to be ranked higher to the top in those rankings even though many of us know that they are much better than that and deserve to be seeded higher. So I wanted to vote each and every time that way each clan has the potential to be seeded where most people think they should be accurately rated at the time of that particular tournament instead of based strictly how they have played in the past.

These ranking were agreed to by the CLA. I believe that cloet might have some adjustments to make but these are basically the rankings.


Ohh ya TOFU is #6 according to this so why the waa waa about that?

Ladders ladders ladders.......

New RPI one is being worked on and I recently added a Team Factor.....(clans would be aiming to average about 2.85 to 3.15 players per game in a challenge) The factor is hurt by Singles. I've also been playing around with the reliability ratings since 2 A challenges mean quite a bit when you split the RPI into A and B. It still needs some tweaks as always, the whole 15 months not in a challenge being one of them.

Anyways, here it is for shits and giggles.....(mostly giggles, but shit if you must or just feel like it)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2721/430 ... b2b6_o.jpg

The ranking posted by hiddendragon is largely based on historical data and results that stretch far back in time.

This is an exercise in seeding clans according to their perceived performance in an up-and-coming knockout tournament and as such should gauge current ability rather than historic achievement.

LoW - lost 7 members and have just gone down to O & H.
TSM - are without Seulessliathan
Nemesis - are without HardAttack

You can't tell me this wouldn't impact on a tournament in which there's a maximum quota of games a player can participate in. Strength (and seedings accordingly) should be gauged on the depth of capable players within a clan due to the 15 game max rule, simple as that.

That's how I'm going to structure my list when called to do so anyway.

makes sense. is that a number 1 spot for tofu then? just playing devil's advocate!

jpcloet wrote:Ladders ladders ladders.......

New RPI one is being worked on and I recently added a Team Factor.....(clans would be aiming to average about 2.85 to 3.15 players per game in a challenge) The factor is hurt by Singles. I've also been playing around with the reliability ratings since 2 A challenges mean quite a bit when you split the RPI into A and B. It still needs some tweaks as always, the whole 15 months not in a challenge being one of them.

Anyways, here it is for shits and giggles.....(mostly giggles, but shit if you must or just feel like it)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2721/430 ... b2b6_o.jpg

Thanks for that JP. There's one more win to be added to TOFU's stats there (vs. Gen 1)

Oh and Chuck....I wouldn't worry too much about somebody trying to pull a fast one and downgrading a clan on purpose. It could easily backfire and they get to meet them in Round 1 of the tourney

>khaz. lol

Chariot of Fire wrote:Thanks for that JP. There's one more win to be added to TOFU's stats there (vs. Gen 1)

It's in there, you are probably thinking Mythology. This is A rated clans only so that one is not in there.

Chariot of Fire wrote:The ranking posted by hiddendragon is largely based on historical data and results that stretch far back in time.

This is an exercise in seeding clans according to their perceived performance in an up-and-coming knockout tournament and as such should gauge current ability rather than historic achievement.

LoW - lost 7 members and have just gone down to O & H.
TSM - are without Seulessliathan
Nemesis - are without HardAttack

You can't tell me this wouldn't impact on a tournament in which there's a maximum quota of games a player can participate in. Strength (and seedings accordingly) should be gauged on the depth of capable players within a clan due to the 15 game max rule, simple as that.

That's how I'm going to structure my list when called to do so anyway.

Thanks for the support and explaining part of my reasoning better than I have already CoF. We are going to stick with the voting as is. I will be sending out the PM in the morning probably. I will only send the PM to the leader for each clan signed up. If you want your secondary contact to fill it out then you can pass it along to them and let them reply to Incandenza, Foxglove and I

I know its too late, but I agree with COF on this one...wish we could use CLA season 2 data as an a foundation for the seedings...

I think its pretty safe to say that IA,KOTR,TOFU,LOW, TSM, Empire are going to be on the top 10...I would prefer a vote over the other methods...but whatever you guys' decide works

is this going to turn into a big argument about clan rankings? i think we get enough of that in all of jp's attempts at a ladder. This is a tournament and if it comes to it, just draw names out of a hat. The tourney organizer should/could come up with something, after all it is him who is running this right?

i speak only for myself here, but i couldnt care less who i were to play first ... jesus!

Maybe i am saying this only because i may be taking a leave of absense from CC... who knows

Well actually TSM isn't entering soo…

reptile wrote:is this going to turn into a big argument about clan rankings? i think we get enough of that in all of jp's attempts at a ladder. This is a tournament and if it comes to it, just draw names out of a hat. The tourney organizer should/could come up with something, after all it is him who is running this right?

i speak only for myself here, but i couldnt care less who i were to play first ... jesus!

Maybe i am saying this only because i may be taking a leave of absense from CC... who knows

Haha, thanks for the comments Reptile and no it isn't going to turn into an argument. There is no argument. I am running the tournament and this was decided on how I was doing it before I ever posted this thread for everyone to see. We will be voting on the seeds. I am already creating the PM now and it will be out shortly so I can start collecting votes.

Question when you say leader do you mean primary contact or person listed as leader?