Conquer Club

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:16 pm**

jak111 wrote:
edocsil wrote:I guess I wasn't going to spell it all out for you folks, be people are unable to connect the dots here...

As for shield. He has not yet posted in his other games he is away from, and has in fact not logged in for a week. Perhaps I was earlier then you all liked, but idgaf honestly. I was right, we were just going to sit and stare at each other till he was hung for not posting. Or perhaps we should have just waited for replacements? Well, there are still plenty of players opting not to play so we can start with them if the mod likes. Was the action scummy? Yeah, was any thing else going to happen that day? No.

Now here is where I am more embarrassed with you all. How did Neo EXPLICITLY say he could die? If he hid behind scum. He died tonight so either he was a pussy and didn't use his hide to investigate (Dumb due to his resurrection abilities he was so kind to leave out of his claim. Perhaps it was for the best anyhow.) Or he hid behind someone. I know fairly certainly who he hid behind, and I know that I busdrove that person with Mob Deadly. I left enough of a hint in my posts that Neo should be able to confirm my suspicions of his target, or if he doesn't I suppose he can just claim his target too.

Anyhow Neo died because he targeted scum due to the fact that no one else is dead too with the standard hider mechanics. I claim his target due to my action is Mob, and hopefully Neo will confirm. Jak should have been able to confirm this as well, but since he is a derp he didn't target ME. I was easily the most scummy looking player going in, and a simple track would prove the truth of my actions. He is also now high as a kite, so he can't confirm Neo's action either.

So the moral of this wall of text is simple. Neo gets on, and claims his target/verifies my suspicions and we hang the bastard he ended up hiding behind.
I can't quote pm's... but Doom hid behind me unless he sent Saf a different message afterward... I was going to track you Edoc but Doom called me off of it <.<

That is impossible unless I have grievous misunderstandings about how a hider works or you are bulletproof.

Player A hides behind Player B
Player B is both killed and Doc'ed.
Player A and B should both live correct?

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:20 pm**

Im trying to figure out the scenarios right now....

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:24 pm**

So im confused....

You bussed Player B with me?

So you suspect that he "died" because I am scum, and the doc healed neo after?

I will certainly be on to answer any questions to me tomorrow. I can promise I will not submarine... Its just finding time to sift through 122 pages to build a case that I simply cannot do.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:55 pm**

I believe someone roleblocked Jak during round 2? Could've targeted Doom this round. It would be strange for scum roleblocker to just stop blocking the claimed town tracker just because he asks you to stop, but on the other hand, there are three visible ways why Jak could initially have survived a kill, so I can see some balancing issues there. Smith obviously didn't target Neo, so the mafia is responsible for his rebirth.

I want to hear a proper hard claim from Edoc'sil. I saw your softclaim but I guess noone's picking up on it, and I'm not spoonfeeding now. I'm also interested in the phrasing of your last post: Jak got Doc'd last night? Elaborate.

Vote Edoc

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:33 am**

For fucks sake. I'm I really being that unclear? Or just purposely misinterpreted?

DoomYoshi wrote:...since if I hide behind a mafia, I die.

He died.

Then he wasn't dead.

If he or Jak was doc'ed, he never would have died.

Ergo, his hide mechanic killed him.

f*ck if I know what ressed him, perhaps now he is The One. He had to die first in the movies anyhow to become that.

MoB Deadly wrote:So im confused....

You bussed Player B with me?

So you suspect that he "died" because I am scum, and the doc healed neo after?

Yes, I bussed you and a vital town asset that I cannot afford to have recruited, someone I now consider to be the most likely target of Neo's hide ability due to his death. They were almost 100% certain to be not scum unless recruited, and the fact that Neo was dead leaves me to suspect that the player I switched the essential player with is scum. I have no desire to out someone I suspect to be vital for the town to win, so I will not say who except in the last defense of my life, and well, then it's the towns problem.

I am the Trainman. I am a busdriver survivor.

Actions to date.

N4 Mob and Critical Person
N3 Myself and Jak
N2 Myself and everywhere
N1 Myself and Freezie (oops) this does show at least one scum faction wants me dead.

Shame on you Aage for asking for that by the way. You already knew who I was, and I have been softlcaiming hardcore ever since someone tried to kill me.

I would like Doom to post as to why he died and lived. I am certain he knows why by now if he didn't know of the abilities beforehand.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:59 am**

FOS PMC and Chuck ... you guys better explain yourselves! And Aage whatchugottasaynow?

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:54 am**

...And on a more simplistic mafia 101 note. I am not defending Edocsil one way or the other BUT he knows the ramifications of hammering someone. If he was mafia I doubt very much he would put himself in a posiotion where people would use it against him.

second Sheild has a history of dissappearing like this and its annoying as hell. We would still be waiting as we speak.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:33 am**

edocsil wrote:
N4 Mob and Critical Person

So, that is a pretty good combination.

Doom hid behind Jak
Edoc switched Jak and MoB
If there was a doctor in the game, chances are he is hiding behind Jak.

Edoc's theory...

Since Neo died, it's because I am scum. Then the doc's save kicked in and rescued Neo.

-----

Another interesting note, I feel like Neo can die and come back to life once. It happened in the movie, and the flavor suggests that he was "Auto-Revived" and that he was NOT healed by a doctor.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:34 am**

EBWOP - Doctor - Healing Jak

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:19 am**

I don't think it was a targeted ability, Jak seemed to been pretty confused about the scene. I do not think there is a doctor in the scenario, because it makes little sense with the given outcome.

I also never switched Jak and you Mob. You seem confused about my theory and conclusions.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:21 am**

edocsil wrote:I don't think it was a targeted ability, Jak seemed to been pretty confused about the scene. I do not think there is a doctor in the scenario, because it makes little sense with the given outcome.

I also never switched Jak and you Mob. You seem confused about my theory and conclusions.

ok I will just shutup then and wait until Doom chimes in

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:30 am**

Im calling total BS on edocs claim. i think he is mafia busdriver. he busses himself and some fairly town people? N1, he could have guaranteed his survival by getting his scumbuddies to target him, or he could have bussed someone else and lied to us about it.

He defended clever a lot, and is admittedly generally very scummy. Then he hammered shield. perhaps Mob is scum, or else he is lying and keeping to his normal strategy by bussing himself and someone who jak targeted, thus killing jak.

this is a very good case on edoc. vote edoc.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:01 am**

vodean wrote:Im calling total BS on edocs claim. i think he is mafia busdriver. he busses himself and some fairly town people? N1, he could have guaranteed his survival by getting his scumbuddies to target him, or he could have bussed someone else and lied to us about it.

He defended clever a lot, and is admittedly generally very scummy. Then he hammered shield. perhaps Mob is scum, or else he is lying and keeping to his normal strategy by bussing himself and someone who jak targeted, thus killing jak.

this is a very good case on edoc. vote edoc.

You're mistaken vodean. The Trainman is one of the pivotal characters in the movies, and it is completely proven that I am him.

safariguy5 wrote:
Meanwhile, a different man in a dark suit and sunglasses follows another man into the subway system. The would be victim turns and sees the threat, and jumps onto the subway. The train curiously deposits another man on the platform. Indifferent, the man in the dark suit shoots this other man and walks away.

freezie, Morpheus, Town Watcher has been killed!

There it is. If you want to try to hang me, you better well do it admitting that I am the Trainman. If people want to try to hang me for what I have done, I am more then ready to debate it. However, I don't intend to deal with people calling me an agent. I still have my night action as well, and it is easily proven, so I am unrecruited as well.

Oh, and Doom dies if he mistargets, not Jak. You aught to skim less.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:14 am**

edocsil wrote:
vodean wrote:Im calling total BS on edocs claim. i think he is mafia busdriver. he busses himself and some fairly town people? N1, he could have guaranteed his survival by getting his scumbuddies to target him, or he could have bussed someone else and lied to us about it.

He defended clever a lot, and is admittedly generally very scummy. Then he hammered shield. perhaps Mob is scum, or else he is lying and keeping to his normal strategy by bussing himself and someone who jak targeted, thus killing jak.

this is a very good case on edoc. vote edoc.
You're mistaken vodean. The Trainman is one of the pivotal characters in the movies, and it is completely proven that I am him.

safariguy5 wrote:
Meanwhile, a different man in a dark suit and sunglasses follows another man into the subway system. The would be victim turns and sees the threat, and jumps onto the subway. The train curiously deposits another man on the platform. Indifferent, the man in the dark suit shoots this other man and walks away.

freezie, Morpheus, Town Watcher has been killed!
There it is. If you want to try to hang me, you better well do it admitting that I am the Trainman. If people want to try to hang me for what I have done, I am more then ready to debate it. However, I don't intend to deal with people calling me an agent. I still have my night action as well, and it is easily proven, so I am unrecruited as well.

Oh, and Doom dies if he mistargets, not Jak. You aught to skim less.

i dont know the movies well enough to discuss flavor, though i will try to re-watch them this week when i get to a country with decent internet. then how did jak die? YOU were the one saying that jak died because you made him mishide. i also think its funny how after criticizing jak so much for keeping us waiting yesterday, now you wont say who it was that you bussed.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:15 am**

Whether Neo died from hiding behind scum or was actually targetted I think he would have auto rezzed into the one as someone stated, that must have been part of his condition if he died because as the Oracle stated in the first movie, In order to save everyone and morpheus you will die. So I tend to believe that Neo should HOPEFULLY pick up some new powers which would explain why initally he was underpowered.

The question of Edoc claiming they buss'ed MoB and someone else important to their WC but Jak stating it was untrue is making me believe that Edoc is trying to draw something out and put a target on someone with what appears to be a false claim of action. Your claim I can see fitting but that also validates that there is a Merrgovian Faction which means that the twins and Merrgovian probabally exist as well. You may be pivotal but from what I can remember from the second movie, your faction was not in favor of Neo so while your claim is good its not deemed if you are and what your intentions are. Ill have to go read more on the merrgovians for this.

fp Vodean

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:26 am**

Ok.

Starting with yesterday: I agree with edoc that somebody had to do it.

Jak and I are lovers, so if I die, then he dies too.

I did hide behind jak last night. Jak is still alive thoug,mwhich doesn't make sense here. It is possible my night action didn't work like I thought it did and that someone who called BS on my hider claim tried to get me.

Btw, I didn't know about the resurrection clause and I certainly didn't know (although I should have figured out) that I have now become pro-town hero.

Edoc, whatever you need to win this game, I will help you in that. Just keep me busdriven

Vote Aage

For being the most vociferous of my hiding claim deniers. If this doesn't pan out, let's go for vodean.

Finally, I think there are 4 agent smiths now, based on the scene.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:33 am**

I am fine with following Doom's lead, however I wish we had more evidence, rather than going for someone who just disagreed with Doom.
I think good value could be found in the lynch and bandwagon patterns.

DoomYoshi wrote: Finally, I think there are 4 agent smiths now, based on the scene.

I think this is wrong. The scene suggested 1 Smith copied another Smith.

But the other 2 agents in the second half of the scene were probably aligned with the mafia.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:53 am**

thehippo8 wrote:FOS PMC and Chuck ... you guys better explain yourselves! And Aage whatchugottasaynow?

For what? For pressing edoc? Who just claimed survivor and for all we know could have been recruited? I have nothing to explain.

There are a few things I don't still get about the actions but I might be being slow. Edoc how did you know who doom would hide behind? And what if doom was blocked/killed straight up?

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:54 am**

The reason I asked Edoc to claim is because he hinted towards more than one role in the game so far.

edocsil wrote:Meta, I hammer Shield whenever possible. Have a cookie, Mob is scum. Sorry Neo, I assumed you wouldn't try to hide there.

Cookie is pretty much the Oracle signature, hence the confusion and hence why I asked a full claim. The vote was only there because asking for a claim without pressuring is just silly.

Now that you've claimed 3rd party Busdriver I would appreciate it if you would please try to help town and not divert the night actions on you to claimed roles, or something like that. Survivors still don't help us and sound to me like ideal convert targets... especially since you're technically a program.

DoomYoshi wrote:Vote Aage

For being the most vociferous of my hiding claim deniers. If this doesn't pan out, let's go for vodean.

This is also just silly. I doubted your claim because it was ridiculously underpowered. Now that it turns out your role is not underpowered, you were lying (intended or not, I don't care) and I seem to have been correct about your role. I certainly wasn't expecting a vote from that chain of events. It's okay, though.

For now, we need to find the Cult Leader. Jak has been tracking a bunch of people so far, and since Smith was active during every night we can conclude that these people are not the Cult Leader. The list is still pretty long, though :/ I'll look into it later today.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:56 am**

pmchugh wrote:There are a few things I don't still get about the actions but I might be being slow. Edoc how did you know who doom would hide behind? And what if doom was blocked/killed straight up?

^exactly what I said earlier today. I agree that failing to hide sounds very plausible, but there are more options.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:02 am**

What I got from flavour was that Neo self ressurected (similar to a bulletproof mechanism). I thought edoc's voting of MoB was strange, and a 3rd party busdriver - is different to say the least. I suppose he could be mafia busdriver as the wiki says he tried to shoot Seraph, Morpheus, and Trinity.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:06 am**

No, busdriver fits the Trainman perfectly. It's a program who works for the Merovingian (the Frenchman), and who in no way is associated with agents. Technically he's as illegal in the Matrix as e.g. Morpheus or Trinity. He probably spawned from an earlier version of the Matrix, like many of the Merovingian's minions (they're sometimes referred to as Vampires, although they're basically just overpowered programs that refuse to play by the rules).

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:03 am**

Also, edoc : if I were to use my hide as an investigate, both me and jak would die. Also, since I didnt tell anybody where I hid, it wouldn't have helped last night.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:03 pm**

Alright, now that Doom has stated that he didn't change his hide target.. I think a role blocker is working against him which seems somewhat likely. I was role blocked N2, he may have been role blocked N4... So my question is, is it a town role blocker who just randomly picks people or is it mafia?

Edoc's role IS NOT an agent. That being said I'm not sure how the cloning thing works. so let's hope there's not going to be a clone EVERY night o.e...

Vote Aage

Right now I think Aage has some information. He wants information yet he does not give...

aage wrote: you were lying (intended or not, I don't care)

So what are you? Doom can't lie about something he doesn't know, so what's the point of saying this?

Anyway.. Time to get up a list of people.

2. edocsil 3rd party Survivor Busdriver
3. jak111 (Town Tracker, Mason, Lover, Trinity)
4. DoomYoshi (Hider, Mason, Lover, Neo, (More roles now?))
5. Iron Butterfly
6. MoB Deadly
7. aage
8. Leehar
10. thehippo8 VT (tracked and hid behind)
11. betiko
13. pmchugh
14. Djfireside
15. vodean VT (Tracked)
17. jonty125
18. everywhere116
22. thechuck51
23. ghostly447 (Perhaps SG7's Mason partner)
24. soundman

I forget both of the names of the claimed VT's but anyway, that's my claimed list so far.

So with 3 Cult and 3-4 mafia left. Can I assume that 4-5 townies remain?

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:20 pm**

jak111 wrote:Alright, now that Doom has stated that he didn't change his hide target.. I think a role blocker is working against him which seems somewhat likely. I was role blocked N2, he may have been role blocked N4... So my question is, is it a town role blocker who just randomly picks people or is it mafia?

Edoc's role IS NOT an agent. That being said I'm not sure how the cloning thing works. so let's hope there's not going to be a clone EVERY night o.e...

Vote Aage

Right now I think Aage has some information. He wants information yet he does not give...

aage wrote: you were lying (intended or not, I don't care)
So what are you? Doom can't lie about something he doesn't know, so what's the point of saying this?

Anyway.. Time to get up a list of people.

2. edocsil 3rd party Survivor Busdriver
3. jak111 (Town Tracker, Mason, Lover, Trinity)
4. DoomYoshi (Hider, Mason, Lover, Neo, (More roles now?))
5. Iron Butterfly
6. MoB Deadly
7. aage
8. Leehar
10. thehippo8 VT (tracked and hid behind)
11. betiko
13. pmchugh
14. Djfireside
15. vodean VT (Tracked)
17. jonty125
18. everywhere116
22. thechuck51
23. ghostly447 (Perhaps SG7's Mason partner)
24. soundman

I forget both of the names of the claimed VT's but anyway, that's my claimed list so far.

So with 3 Cult and 3-4 mafia left. Can I assume that 4-5 townies remain?

Sounds reasonable. I think right now the priority is in finding the cult leader. Also what does "o.e." mean?

Conquer Club

Matrix Mafia Endgame, Town and Survivors win!

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