INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[Pikanchion]

If we were just to agree on a mass claim then I'm sure we won't get claims from certain people I (and presumably others) find fairly scummy until right at the end, and it's far too easy to say you were busy or sick or didn't see the thread or whatever. Meanwhile those (surely some of whom were just trying to be helpful) giving away their information immediately also help Scum who would perhaps have been made to claim first should they feel the need to lie.

[ZaBeast]

I'll just point out chap bussing 4 people was his bonus ability. He should be back to 2 now.

[Ragian]

What are your thoughts if someone refuses to claim?

[TX AG 90]

Where's Sirius hiding?

Why only Sirius Kase? Skoffin has yet to make a post today either.

—

Currently we have three people expressly for a mass claim (myself, BuJaber, blacky365), one person expressly against (chapcrap), four implicitly against through lack of commitment (strike wolf, ZaBeast, TX AG 90, Ragian), and two who have not even posted today (Skoffin, Sirius Kase). Now, my position is I would like to hear full claims from at least four specific other players and hear last night's action from every other player and everybody—who—hasn't—claimed—it—already's N2 action before I would really feel comfortable voting today. Surely there are others who feel similarly? Outside of chapcrap and Ragian who seem to both have become partial Cops, who of the rest of us really feel they can make an informed choice about who to vote for? Does anybody have anything to verify that either of these players is telling the truth, does Ragian even know for certain who he targeted given we still have claimed misdirection roles capable of hitting potentially five+ players per night?

I'm curious, does anybody not want a full claim from Skoffin at this point? Perhaps we should all just state who we do want a full claim from, see if anybody gets over six votes and just have those people claim?

I mentioned Sirius because we haven't heard from him in over a week, real time.

I'm not strongly opposed or for the mass claim. I'll go whichever way the wind blows on this one. I don't think it will benefit my understanding of who is scum, but if it helps town, I'm down. I'm just not sure it will. I'll get off that fence post now!

[Pikanchion]

I'll just point out chap bussing 4 people was his bonus ability. He should be back to 2 now.

The claim was that it was useable every night from when it was unlocked...

New ability - swap the actions of 4 people. This happens in two sets of two. So, basically double the first action. In addition to the doubling, I also get told how many scum are involved with the 4 people I switch.

If we all make it until tomorrow, I should have new information on the investigative properties of my role.

I will be able to bring more information tomorrow as well. Could be 4 completely new people. Could be the same people. That will depend on how I feel about the day once night is here.

Do you stand by this highly believable claim?

Yeah. Do you stand by your ridiculousness?

"I will be able to bring more information tomorrow as well. Could be 4 completely new people."

—

What are your thoughts if someone refuses to claim?

—First, people agree to the plan (6+ players)
—Second, somebody is chosen to make the first nomination (general agreement or first past the post vote)
—Third, first claimer is nominated
—Fourth, first claimer claims and nominates a second or is lynched
—Fifth, second claimer claims and nominates a third or is lynched
—etc.

Once we're into the mass claim, refusing to take your turn is akin to refusing to claim at L-1.

[blacky365]

Where's Sirius hiding?

Why only Sirius Kase? Skoffin has yet to make a post today either.

—

Currently we have three people expressly for a mass claim (myself, BuJaber, blacky365), one person expressly against (chapcrap), four implicitly against through lack of commitment (strike wolf, ZaBeast, TX AG 90, Ragian), and two who have not even posted today (Skoffin, Sirius Kase). Now, my position is I would like to hear full claims from at least four specific other players and hear last night's action from every other player and everybody—who—hasn't—claimed—it—already's N2 action before I would really feel comfortable voting today. Surely there are others who feel similarly? Outside of chapcrap and Ragian who seem to both have become partial Cops, who of the rest of us really feel they can make an informed choice about who to vote for? Does anybody have anything to verify that either of these players is telling the truth, does Ragian even know for certain who he targeted given we still have claimed misdirection roles capable of hitting potentially five+ players per night?

I'm curious, does anybody not want a full claim from Skoffin at this point? Perhaps we should all just state who we do want a full claim from, see if anybody gets over six votes and just have those people claim?

I mentioned Sirius because we haven't heard from him in over a week, real time.

I'm not strongly opposed or for the mass claim. I'll go whichever way the wind blows on this one. I don't think it will benefit my understanding of who is scum, but if it helps town, I'm down. I'm just not sure it will. I'll get off that fence post now!

I would not say that I am expressly FOR a mass claim at all. I very much agree with TX, in that I do not believe a mass claim will get anywhere.
I have said that I would be happy to join in and claim when asked, but that is because ppl have pointed fingers at me, not because I think it’s a good idea.

I don’t think it will help because scum will just be inventive and come up with some sort of fish and a towny sounding role.

What are your thoughts if someone refuses to claim?

—First, people agree to the plan (6+ players)
—Second, somebody is chosen to make the first nomination (general agreement or first past the post vote)
—Third, first claimer is nominated
—Fourth, first claimer claims and nominates a second or is lynched
—Fifth, second claimer claims and nominates a third or is lynched
—etc.

Once we're into the mass claim, refusing to take your turn is akin to refusing to claim at L-1.

I don’t think this is the case. If someone refuses to claim, they would then need to be taken to L2/1 and could claim then. If someone disagrees with your strategy and refuses to cooperate it does not make them any less town.
It could be argued that you blindly bullying ppl in to your way of thinking is rather scummy!

[blacky365]

Please note that I said “could be” and not that you are... what I mean by this is that if someone vehemently disagrees with you on this policy whether town or scum, they could use this argument

[Pikanchion]

Except that the entire premise of this is that we have a majority agreement on the plan in the first place, you'll note I haven't been pushing for you lynch yet after BuJaber nominated you and you did not claim.

[blacky365]

Yeah I know, but anyone thinking I’m scum bothers me because they have just twisted my words to suit their agenda.

I think your idea is nice in theory but in practice wouldn’t work. I doubt scum would go for it and anyone with a very strong role that would make them a scum target if revealed would not want it.
Also, it does kinda defeat the objective of mafia where all roles are private and information is drop fed through night actions and the odd forced claim.

[Ragian]

I think chap is scum.

vote chap

[Pikanchion]

I think your idea is nice in theory but in practice wouldn’t work. I doubt scum would go for it and anyone with a very strong role that would make them a scum target if revealed would not want it.
Also, it does kinda defeat the objective of mafia where all roles are private and information is drop fed through night actions and the odd forced claim.

You just came out and claimed the second you got any kind of result from your night action at all... Massclaims are a standard part of Mafia games, typically towards the end of the game, either when Town has enough information to force Scum into lying or when Town has run out of other options. If the Mafia really believe there's a super powerful unclaimed role there's already only 2-3 players it could be (not to mention there's already two claimed Doctors they could also be going for).

[Skoffin]

Sorry very sick, woke up very late, need to get ready for work.

Just going to quickly add since I forgot llast night; I am not a passive healer nor a puffer fish like blacky thinks I am. Also going to tell you all this now before there is more confusion on it; my action last night caused all the chaos. It has pros and cons to it which put me off using it, but at the risk of a possible double kill I used it. Con is that EVERY action in the game gets randomised, both town and scum, pro is that NO night kills can happen.
Soprry not sorry see you after work

[chapcrap]

First of all, I don't think that we'd have 5 scum when Tobi is a traitor. When I played that role, I had the opportunity to switch alignment. If that's the case here, 5 scum would be too much. However, that's just conjecture.

Well, chap, either you or blacky is scum. Only you two know which one it is and neither of you is voting for the other. I find that a bit weird. Unless, of course, you think I'm scum, but it seems that you haven't thought so throughout the game...

One: I've mentioned you being scummy before. I think it's very possible that you are scum.

Two: Even if I 100% thought you were town, why does it have to be between me and blacky? Why can't TX be scum? Just because he's a healer? So, I go with my investigation over yours regardless.

Yeah, I am glad we lynched tobi since he was MAFIA. You are most welcome! Town traitor means he is a TRAITOR to the TOWN, traitor is ALWAYS a mafia-aligned role. So from your own damn perspective tovbi was the scum you found and ragoo and I are the town results you found. The fact you are painting us as scum is simply incredible.

I have asked about this multiple times and no one else has wanted to say that he would show up as scum.

Well. I KNOW for a fact that there's a healer in my mix. TX had claimed healer before. I trust my investigation to be honest. But hey, I like my food better than other people's food, too.

Yes, but if we are to take chapcrap's word then four of the ten alive were bussed last night, the chance of none of your three having any overlap with the aforementioned four is only 16.7%. The fact that you can be sure at least one of those you did actually use your action on is a Healer also means little when there are potentially three healers (two claimed plus the passive) in the pool of ten players...

I only was able to bus 2. The 4 person bus was a one time use.

chapcrap can misdirect any number per night and the average number of players misdirected by bussing increases as the number of players remaining falls.

This is not how my action works. I've said this multiple times. I was mistaken initially.

I think chap is scum.

vote chap

Why? Me over blacky and TX?

[ZaBeast]

Blacky is not a healer. He would have said as much. Chap is not a healer. He would have said as much. TX must be the healer. Therefore - and I have the mod's word here - one of Blacky and Chap is scum. Moreover, TX is town.

In your initial claim you said you know how many scum there were between the 3 you targeted. How do you know TX is town and the scum is one of the other 2?

I asked how I were to interpret the wording of my role ability. Mod replied that since there was a healer in the mix, I investigated the two others (I presume this means the healer isn't scum, but I can't know), and between the two others, there is one scum.

Maybe don't skim chap?
Pika, as I already said, I don't have strong feelings either way regarding a mass claim but in this particular game I am not sure it would be helpful with the duplicate roles going on.
Skoff can you explain the being attacked flavor?

[strike wolf]

Part of the point of having a traitor role is that it is immune to cop actions. so yeah, I don't put much weight in the idea that Tobi would show up scum on your results.

Eh I was hesitating on the mass claim but I'll agree with it overall. Pika makes good points and I agree with Buj that Blacky should be the first to full claim.

[Ragian]

First of all, I don't think that we'd have 5 scum when Tobi is a traitor. When I played that role, I had the opportunity to switch alignment. If that's the case here, 5 scum would be too much. However, that's just conjecture.

Well, chap, either you or blacky is scum. Only you two know which one it is and neither of you is voting for the other. I find that a bit weird. Unless, of course, you think I'm scum, but it seems that you haven't thought so throughout the game...

One: I've mentioned you being scummy before. I think it's very possible that you are scum. *shrug*

Two: Even if I 100% thought you were town, why does it have to be between me and blacky? Why can't TX be scum? Just because he's a healer? So, I go with my investigation over yours regardless. Beast covered this for me

Yeah, I am glad we lynched tobi since he was MAFIA. You are most welcome! Town traitor means he is a TRAITOR to the TOWN, traitor is ALWAYS a mafia-aligned role. So from your own damn perspective tovbi was the scum you found and ragoo and I are the town results you found. The fact you are painting us as scum is simply incredible.

I have asked about this multiple times and no one else has wanted to say that he would show up as scum.

Well. I KNOW for a fact that there's a healer in my mix. TX had claimed healer before. I trust my investigation to be honest. But hey, I like my food better than other people's food, too.

Yes, but if we are to take chapcrap's word then four of the ten alive were bussed last night, the chance of none of your three having any overlap with the aforementioned four is only 16.7%. The fact that you can be sure at least one of those you did actually use your action on is a Healer also means little when there are potentially three healers (two claimed plus the passive) in the pool of ten players...

I only was able to bus 2. The 4 person bus was a one time use.

chapcrap can misdirect any number per night and the average number of players misdirected by bussing increases as the number of players remaining falls.

This is not how my action works. I've said this multiple times. I was mistaken initially.

I think chap is scum.

vote chap

Why? Me over blacky and TX?

Because I think it's weird that you're dead against a mass claim, and it's weird that you ask me about stuff I've written, and you were weird D1. And blacky is new. I don't think I can read him yet...

[BuJaber]

Ragian is your night result that it there is ONLY 1 scum between them, or should we also consider that both could be scum?

Chap was already suspect to me from previous days. Blacky is because of inconsistincies with the poisoning and for jumping on skoffin when he should have known he got redirected.

[blacky365]

You just came out and claimed the second you got any kind of result from your night action at all... Massclaims are a standard part of Mafia games, typically towards the end of the game, either when Town has enough information to force Scum into lying or when Town has run out of other options. If the Mafia really believe there's a super powerful unclaimed role there's already only 2-3 players it could be (not to mention there's already two claimed Doctors they could also be going for).

1. The reason I partially claimed today was because of my result. I have not been very forthcoming on my role before today and that is because i have had no results so did not want to become a target until I know the usefulness of my action. But now that I have a result, are you suggesting I should have kept it to myself? What would the point of that be?
2. If massclaims are quite standard, why havent all of the more experienced players agreed to it? It just seems odd to me but I will happily go along with what the majority want to do here. And as i have already said multiple times, I am more than happy to join in and claim.

Ragian is your night result that it there is ONLY 1 scum between them, or should we also consider that both could be scum?

Chap was already suspect to me from previous days. Blacky is because of inconsistincies with the poisoning and for jumping on skoffin when he should have known he got redirected.

This has been suggested a few times, the wording from the mod was along the lines of as I swim through the murky waters to take cover i spot my target and manage to carry out my investigation.
In no way was it even hinted that my result was not from who i wanted.

Just going to quickly add since I forgot llast night; I am not a passive healer nor a puffer fish like blacky thinks I am. Also going to tell you all this now before there is more confusion on it; my action last night caused all the chaos. It has pros and cons to it which put me off using it, but at the risk of a possible double kill I used it. Con is that EVERY action in the game gets randomised, both town and scum, pro is that NO night kills can happen.
Soprry not sorry see you after work

Dont know what to make of this statement!
How many roles is Skoff claiming to have?

[Ragian]

Ragian is your night result that it there is ONLY 1 scum between them, or should we also consider that both could be scum?

One of the two that is not the healer is scum. Would've been nice had it been both...

[Pikanchion]

Skoffin, did you have anything in your night result about a light in the deep last night?

[Skoffin]

yeah no

[ZaBeast]

And @skoff, do you think your action could have explained BuJ not dying in case he didn't end up being targeted by a healer?

If the majority of town is for a mass claim I'm fine with blacky claiming first

[Pikanchion]

yeah no

Is this an actual no or are you just being annoying? =P

[TX AG 90]

And @skoff, do you think your action could have explained BuJ not dying in case he didn't end up being targeted by a healer?

If the majority of town is for a mass claim I'm fine with blacky claiming first

I'll join SW and Beast on Pika's Wagon. I'm not sure if the mass claim will help, but I can't see how, at this point, it will hurt.

So yeah, blacky 1st.

[blacky365]

Can we have the rules of this planned out?

Do I just need to provide the info once I have a certain number of votes?
And do I then nominate whoever I want?
Do I need to provide a reason for nominating the next person?

And exactly what information do you want me to provide?