Napoleonic Europe 1812 - Ver 41/44 [Quenched]

[Gillipig]

Looks like a fun map! However I don't understand why you have Sweden as an ally to France! Sweden was indeed fighting against France with the coalition . They might have supported France early on, but in the end they were enemies with France. So I don't get why you have them as allies when calling them enemies would be more appropriate!

[Kabanellas]

Evil – indeed 54, I was thinking on turning Egypt to neutral. Have to discuss it with Raskholnikov first.

Gillipig – Well, Raskholnikov is the History teacher. He’ll be more than glad to share with us his point of view concerning that issue

[Gillipig]

One thing that just occurred to me is that during this time Norway declared independence from Denmark and then declared the King of Sweden its king, unifying the two countries.

That was not really how Norway became swedish. There was no desire from norwegian point of view to be a part of Sweden. What happend was that the Swedish king (who was a former french general under Napoleon) avoided most of the battling against the troops of Napoleon in Germany in order to make a surprise attack towards Denmark when Napoleon had been defeated. It worked from a swedish point of view and the danes were forced to give up Norway in order to get the swedes out of the Denmark. Since there were wasn't much resistance from the norwegians, people are lead to believe that it was a unification between two countries while indeed it was an occupation. Norway had gone from swedish to danish and danish to swedish a couple of times before so for them it wasn't a big deal. Norway were given their freedom roughly 100 years later.

[waseemalim]

I think you can still support the idea of holding russian winter not killing 2 armies if moscow is held. You will just need to add a autodeploy bonus of +2 when moscow is held, to counter the -2.

[Kabanellas]

Version 27

These are the latest changes:

-Egypt now starts neutral – 53 starting regions now
-Added new capital – Naples
-Added new expanded bonus for Kingdom of Naples
-Made ‘Battle Site’ icons more noticeable
-Moscow starting neutral troops dropped to 3

[bigimg]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/NapoleonicEurope_1-3ab_img.png[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

did you just add those ellipsoid army circles, or did you have them always and I just haven't noticed them?

[Kabanellas]

they have always been there

..I just forgot to add a bit more transparency to those in 'Rome' and 'Piedmont'

[natty dread]

Man, I need to get my vision checked.

[MarshalNey]

This map is wonderful, and a brilliant adaptation of a large number of epic historical events.

However, I do have a suggestion (or at least an observation).

The Peninsular War has been given a strangely understated role in Napoleon's defeat- most of the credit goes to the Russian catastrophe. However, the "Spanish ulcer" of Napoleon's forces probably had as much if not more to do with the French downfall. Napoleon actually had more men rendered ineffictive by Spanish guerrilas during his 3-year occupation of Iberia than his forces lost to Russian Cossacks during their tortuous retreat.

You've included the Russian Winter; I think a similar, perhaps smaller decay would give credence to the modern era's first national "people's war". The term 'guerilla' (which came from the reference to Spain's fight as a "war of little wars") was coined during this campaign, and the cycle of atrocity and counter-atrocity that has become the familiar pattern of a rebellious people and a powerful occupation force was etched in the modern conciousness during this period.

Perhaps a smaller decay of -1 for some of Spain's provinces (especially Andalucia, where Cadiz held out against the French siege for years) could simulate the widespread banditry and religious fanatacism that proved a nightmare for any occupying foce.

I realize that might mess up your planned bonuses, but I thought I'd bring it up just in case you liked the idea. Again, excellent work and I can't wait to play it.

[Kabanellas]

Marshal, thanks for the thoughts

Though I agree that Guerrilla warfare in the peninsula played its part in the Napoleonic War, we (Rask and I) wouldn’t want to add any more rules to this map…

[Kabanellas]

Version 27

These are the latest changes:

-Egypt now starts neutral – 53 starting regions now
-Added new capital – Naples
-Added new expanded bonus for Kingdom of Naples
-Made ‘Battle Site’ icons more noticeable
-Moscow starting neutral troops dropped to 3

Version 28

Changes in St Petersburg region – now the city is actually inside the region area

[bigimg]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/NapoleonicEurope_V27Image.png[/bigimg]

[Industrial Helix]

I can't wait to play this map...

The one way attacks are somewhat unclear to me. I am reading it as Corsica one way attacks Naples one way attacks Greece one way attacks Aboukir... correct? Perhaps an arrow head is necessary between each leg of those links.

Have you ever thought of making Cyprus playable on this map? The island went on to be a relatively important base in the Med for the Brits.

[pamoa]

just great
I must say it

[Kabanellas]

thanks a lot guys! I really appreciate it - it's a huge amount of work involved....

[Kabanellas]

Almost forgot to answer this Helix

I am reading it as Corsica one way attacks Naples one way attacks Greece one way attacks Aboukir... correct? Perhaps an arrow head is necessary between each leg of those links.

no... the one way assaults is just directed towards Aboukir (Corsica-Aboukir), that's why the Arrow only appears in Aboukir. I wouldn't like to make that line swing between Sicily and Naples, it would result too messy.

[Evil DIMwit]

Almost forgot to answer this Helix

I am reading it as Corsica one way attacks Naples one way attacks Greece one way attacks Aboukir... correct? Perhaps an arrow head is necessary between each leg of those links.

no... the one way assaults is just directed towards Aboukir (Corsica-Aboukir), that's why the Arrow only appears in Aboukir. I wouldn't like to make that line swing between Sicily and Naples, it would result too messy.

It would be ugly, but you may have no other options, as the present arrangement is quite unclear.

[Industrial Helix]

Almost forgot to answer this Helix

I am reading it as Corsica one way attacks Naples one way attacks Greece one way attacks Aboukir... correct? Perhaps an arrow head is necessary between each leg of those links.

no... the one way assaults is just directed towards Aboukir (Corsica-Aboukir), that's why the Arrow only appears in Aboukir. I wouldn't like to make that line swing between Sicily and Naples, it would result too messy.

It would be ugly, but you may have no other options, as the present arrangement is quite unclear.

Agreed. I would suggest just giving it the dashed line treatment as you have for every other bordering Island and land.

[jefjef]

well, the arrow is in Aboukir... though I can understand that some people could get mislead by it.

I will try to make a different version....

Atleast move it from Greece.

[Kabanellas]

ok guys, I will redraw that line

[Kabanellas]

Line redone:

[bigimg]http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/NapoleonicEurope_V28Image.png[/bigimg]

[Raskholnikov]

Kab,

This is just amazing. I totally love it, both conceptually and graphically. I hope all those wishing to comment will do so in short order, so that we may move to the next stage within a reasonably short amount of time. We've been taking suggestions for about six months now and I think we're getting close to having a reasonably good product here.

A few things I particularly like about the latest map:

1. I agree the redrawn Corsica - Aboukir line is clearer.
2. I am glad we fixed the geographical / boundary details in Russia and lowered the troop counts on both the winter regions and Moscow. Although we will indeed have an empty corner there, that is counterbalanced by the fact that it is now relatively easy to get to Moscow and take it, and the potential benefits for holding Moscow are evident.
3. The idea of making swords bonuses depending on gaining and holding at all times a capital is totally brilliant. Every player will commit to taking and holding a capital because of the capital and swords bonuses, thus in effect giving each player the incentive of choosing to become one of the eight major / middle powers. Because of the bonus structure we set up, the incentive will then be for each capital holder to consolidate the territories around the capital, thus coming as close as possible to recreating an actual historical game of great / middle powers conflict, than would otherwise be possible.
4. Because of the increased importance of capitals, I am very happy we now have eight capitals. Madrid was an obvious add, but now we also have Naples. This is also historically accurate, since after the Leipzig defeat in 1813, Murat attempted to become the champion of Italian nationalism, called for the unification of Italy and marched against the Austrians, in the north. The fact that he was quickly defeated doesn't negate the fact that an attempt was actually made to unify Italy, which is reflected in the game by Naples being a capital and by the way the holder of Naples can develop by conquering the adjacent Italian kingdoms and the two Italian bonus territories (Rome and Piedmont).
5. Overall, this map is as accurate in terms of regional and national borders and bonus territories / land / sea battles as possible. Although the map itself represents the 1812 situation, the battles / bonus structure covers the entire 1795-1815 period and injects a dynamic element to the play allowing for really interesting game development possibilities.

Thank you to all those who took the time and made the effort to contribute with comments and advice in this project. Please let us know what you think of this latest version!

Just a quick note on Sweden: the Swedes picked Bernadotte as King partly because he was acceptable to Napoleon. Sweden was nominally a French ally until after the Moscow campaign. It is only after that debacle that Bernadotte switched sides and played a major role in planning the 1813 campaign in northern Germany on the Allied side. As this map illustrates the state of affairs just before the Russian campaign, it is historically accurate to list Sweden as a French ally.

Rask.

[jefjef]

Beautiful map! That attack route is perfect.

One thing. The mountains don't really look like they rise out of the map. Looks like they are sitting on it. If you could find a way to blend them.

[Industrial Helix]

Beautiful map! That attack route is perfect.

One thing. The mountains don't really look like they rise out of the map. Looks like they are sitting on it. If you could find a way to blend them.

Ah kab, you just can't catch a break with those mountains, can you?

I thought the same thing and agree, though I think this is a debate more for the Graphics workshop. I think something along the lines of the ones you've piked out for Dawn of Ages would work quite well.

[Kabanellas]

Yes Helix, it seems that mountains will always haunt me

Anyway, we’ve already discussed these mountains early on (which is to say 5 or so months ago )…
It’s a personal option of my own; I really want them not to blend. Like if the swords and the mountain symbols were dropped and arranged in the map by the officers that use it.

[Raskholnikov]

I agree with Kab. At this stage I think we should only change something if there's a majot problem somewhere. While we're always open to constructive critisism, after 6 months of revisions I think we're pretty close to moving to the next stage.