Conquer Club

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:I agree with you here. But look at it this way... Imagine that .4 spread out over a trillion more dollars..... then the value of a dollar would be more like .00004. That's more like the value of notebook paper.

But that's what happens every time Bush asks for 500 Billion for the Iraq war. The Fed says sure....here you go....and who is paying it back? Not Bush....we are. But not dollar for dollar. $1.10 per $1.00? $1.20 per $1.00? We are in and endless cycle of repaying a debt that we can never repay. We, the American people, are slaves and don't even realize it.

We should have had a balanced budget Amendment long ago. The US government should not be able to spend more than it brings in.

I agree with you completely. If you amend that to say 'unless in time of crysis'.
I am also of the opinion that this may very well be the cause of another war(with a credit holder). And that this may be by design. But that is just my opinion
Or, even the possible war with Iran, because their OIL BANK is replacing our world bank. And again, my opinion....

jay_a2j wrote:

TheScarecrow wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The Federal Reserve- (why does the US government BORROW money at interest when it can print it themselves?)

have you by any chance studied economics at all jay???

I'd rather have a little inflation than the TRILLIONS of dollars of debt that we won't be able to pay back in 10,000 years.

Ok, I know this reveals me as a bad person but...

I would like to have a loan for mere billions of dollars that isn't due for 10 000 years. As I typed that I realised that's not what you mean but I still would like the loan please.

Dancing Mustard wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:if we could only alter the pic to have "jay_a2j" on the first pig that speaks and "Dancing Mustard/Heavycola/Suggs"on the second pig that speaks!

...then it'd still be a load of old tosh.

What would, farmers killing pigs?

jay_a2j wrote:

Dancing Mustard wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

TheScarecrow wrote:have you by any chance studied economics at all jay???

I'd rather have a little inflation than the TRILLIONS of dollars of debt that we won't be able to pay back in 10,000 years.

So that's a 'no' then?

Why don't YOU explain why we borrow money instead of print it ourselves, instead of jumping on a bandwagon that has no breaks and is driven by a blind man?

I would have thought that a captain would have slightly more intelligence... or would have the guts to do some research...

lets create a new country... and call it Jayland.

Jayland has goods worth $100.

For 0 inflation Jayland should print money equivalent to $100.

Now to keep this simple lets say Jayland has one bank JayBank Ltd (this is JayLands Central Bank... or Federal Reserve). And lets also assume that JayBank has all the money in the economy i.e. $100.

The government needs $50 to facilitate the purchase of something.

Lets say the JayLand government PRINTS the money.

Now we have $150 of money available to the ecnomy.

BUT we only have $100 worth of goods... the excess money in the economy HAS to push up the price of the $100 of goods... causing inflation overall of 50%

Now lets say the JayLand government borrows the money from JayBank.

There is NO net change in the amount of funds available to the economy. We still have $100 of goods that can be purchased with $100 of money.

Lets look at a real world example... Zimbabwe

The Zimbabwe government needed money.... and didnt want to borrow from its bank so it PRINTED the money instead... it has now reached the point where inflation is 4 figures! People who are fortunate enough to HAVE a JOB in that country... many have wages of over 1000000 ZDs... and these people can hardly purchase food for a week let alone the comforts that many of us enjoy.

PRINTING money causes MAJOR problems...

If you have any questions to ask of TheScarecrow... just ask.

TheScarecrow wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Dancing Mustard wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

TheScarecrow wrote:have you by any chance studied economics at all jay???

I'd rather have a little inflation than the TRILLIONS of dollars of debt that we won't be able to pay back in 10,000 years.

So that's a 'no' then?

Why don't YOU explain why we borrow money instead of print it ourselves, instead of jumping on a bandwagon that has no breaks and is driven by a blind man?

I would have thought that a captain would have slightly more intelligence... or would have the guts to do some research...

lets create a new country... and call it Jayland.

Jayland has goods worth $100.

For 0 inflation Jayland should print money equivalent to $100.

Now to keep this simple lets say Jayland has one bank JayBank Ltd (this is JayLands Central Bank... or Federal Reserve). And lets also assume that JayBank has all the money in the economy i.e. $100.

The government needs $50 to facilitate the purchase of something.

Lets say the JayLand government PRINTS the money.

Now we have $150 of money available to the ecnomy.

BUT we only have $100 worth of goods... the excess money in the economy HAS to push up the price of the $100 of goods... causing inflation overall of 50%

Now lets say the JayLand government borrows the money from JayBank.

There is NO net change in the amount of funds available to the economy. We still have $100 of goods that can be purchased with $100 of money.

Lets look at a real world example... Zimbabwe

The Zimbabwe government needed money.... and didnt want to borrow from its bank so it PRINTED the money instead... it has now reached the point where inflation is 4 figures! People who are fortunate enough to HAVE a JOB in that country... many have wages of over 1000000 ZDs... and these people can hardly purchase food for a week let alone the comforts that many of us enjoy.

PRINTING money causes MAJOR problems...

If you have any questions to ask of TheScarecrow... just ask.

Not printing money "as needed", printing money with BACKING (ie. GOLD). You shall soon see, what our forefathers warned us about by the way, that borrowing money from private bankers is NOT a good thing. Maybe you should go see the Wizard Mr. Scarecrow.

jay_a2j wrote:

TheScarecrow wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Dancing Mustard wrote:So that's a 'no' then?

Why don't YOU explain why we borrow money instead of print it ourselves, instead of jumping on a bandwagon that has no breaks and is driven by a blind man?

I would have thought that a captain would have slightly more intelligence... or would have the guts to do some research...

lets create a new country... and call it Jayland.

Jayland has goods worth $100.

For 0 inflation Jayland should print money equivalent to $100.

Now to keep this simple lets say Jayland has one bank JayBank Ltd (this is JayLands Central Bank... or Federal Reserve). And lets also assume that JayBank has all the money in the economy i.e. $100.

The government needs $50 to facilitate the purchase of something.

Lets say the JayLand government PRINTS the money.

Now we have $150 of money available to the ecnomy.

BUT we only have $100 worth of goods... the excess money in the economy HAS to push up the price of the $100 of goods... causing inflation overall of 50%

Now lets say the JayLand government borrows the money from JayBank.

There is NO net change in the amount of funds available to the economy. We still have $100 of goods that can be purchased with $100 of money.

Lets look at a real world example... Zimbabwe

The Zimbabwe government needed money.... and didnt want to borrow from its bank so it PRINTED the money instead... it has now reached the point where inflation is 4 figures! People who are fortunate enough to HAVE a JOB in that country... many have wages of over 1000000 ZDs... and these people can hardly purchase food for a week let alone the comforts that many of us enjoy.

PRINTING money causes MAJOR problems...

If you have any questions to ask of TheScarecrow... just ask.

Not printing money "as needed", printing money with BACKING (ie. GOLD). You shall soon see, what our forefathers warned us about by the way, that borrowing money from private bankers is NOT a good thing. Maybe you should go see the Wizard Mr. Scarecrow.

Jay, if we could go back in time and stop Tardmo "Nixon" Jones from taking us off the gold standard we would. Unfortunately we can not, and if we were to just throw ourselves back onto the gold standard then the economic repercussions would be well beyond severe. What we need right now is to DRASTICALLY cut spending, in virtually all areas of the government, and make the primary goal of the country for the next decade or so making our levels of debt at least reasonable. This will, of course, not happen, as cutting spending across the board isn't too good for votes. In short: We're fucked.

jay_a2j wrote:

TheScarecrow wrote:
I would have thought that a captain would have slightly more intelligence... or would have the guts to do some research...

lets create a new country... and call it Jayland.

Jayland has goods worth $100.

For 0 inflation Jayland should print money equivalent to $100.

Now to keep this simple lets say Jayland has one bank JayBank Ltd (this is JayLands Central Bank... or Federal Reserve). And lets also assume that JayBank has all the money in the economy i.e. $100.

The government needs $50 to facilitate the purchase of something.

Lets say the JayLand government PRINTS the money.

Now we have $150 of money available to the ecnomy.

BUT we only have $100 worth of goods... the excess money in the economy HAS to push up the price of the $100 of goods... causing inflation overall of 50%

Now lets say the JayLand government borrows the money from JayBank.

There is NO net change in the amount of funds available to the economy. We still have $100 of goods that can be purchased with $100 of money.

Lets look at a real world example... Zimbabwe

The Zimbabwe government needed money.... and didnt want to borrow from its bank so it PRINTED the money instead... it has now reached the point where inflation is 4 figures! People who are fortunate enough to HAVE a JOB in that country... many have wages of over 1000000 ZDs... and these people can hardly purchase food for a week let alone the comforts that many of us enjoy.

PRINTING money causes MAJOR problems...

If you have any questions to ask of TheScarecrow... just ask.

Not printing money "as needed", printing money with BACKING (ie. GOLD). You shall soon see, what our forefathers warned us about by the way, that borrowing money from private bankers is NOT a good thing. Maybe you should go see the Wizard Mr. Scarecrow.

You missed the MOST IMPORTANT POINT in my post. i suggest you read it again...

TheScarecrow wrote:
You missed the MOST IMPORTANT POINT in my post. i suggest you read it again...

And you mine.

*SIGH*

Lets put it in American terms...

Lets say America has goods worth $1,000,000

Lets say America's Federal Reserve has all this money (for simplicity's sake)

Bush needs $100,000 to finance his war efforts.

IF HE PRINTS THE MONEY...

There is now $1,100,000 of money in the economy... for only $1,000,000 worth of goods.

That causes inflation.

IF HE BORROWS THE MONEY FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE...

Bush borrows $100,000 from the Reserve

There is still $1,000,000 in the economy. Interest is charged to not only give the Federal Reserve a return on the money but also to MINIMISE THE EFFECT OF INFLATION. The ecnoomy will grow over the time of the loan therebt FURTHER limiting the effect of inflation.

Your question was: Why does the government borrow money at interest? I believe I have answered it...

I have gleaned the above information from studying a textbook written Mr Bernanke...

TheScarecrow wrote:
I
Bush borrows $100,000 from the Reserve

There is still $1,000,000 in the economy. Interest is charged to not only give the Federal Reserve a return on the money but also to MINIMISE THE EFFECT OF INFLATION. The ecnoomy will grow over the time of the loan therebt FURTHER limiting the effect of inflation.

You forgot 1 small detail...... There is still $100,000,000 in the economy but now we have to pay back 100,000 + interest! And your example falls short in that Bush borrows in the hundreds of BILLIONS to fund this "war on terror" (see rumor of war in Bible), in essence we will never be able to get out of debt! It's like paying the minimum payment on a credit card, the bank will suck you dry and you will never get out of debt.

You forgot 1 small detail...... There is still $100,000,000 in the economy but now we have to pay back 100,000 + interest! And your example falls short in that Bush borrows in the hundreds of BILLIONS to fund this "war on terror" (see rumor of war in Bible), in essence we will never be able to get out of debt! It's like paying the minimum payment on a credit card, the bank will suck you dry and you will never get out of debt.

That is true (except for the bible war thing). And that is why the Dollar as a currency is not worth a shit against other currencies and why oil prices are high. The Bush administration has been a wide-scale sacking of the US Treasury by the military-industrial complex. But that does not equate to an illuminati-led NWO. That is just unfettered greed, big difference.

To be blunt, it seems that one of four scenarios is unavoidable.

A) the U.S. taxpayer will be forced to bail out the government
B) the U.S. will just abandon it's current form of currency
C) depression will come and we will be f*cked, third world style
D) we will become a satallite country

Seems that (A) is a thousand times more likely though. Which it seems was the biggest agenda of Bilderberg this year.

Juan_Bottom wrote:To be blunt, it seems that one of four scenarios is unavoidable.

A) the U.S. taxpayer will be forced to bail out the government
B) the U.S. will just abandon it's current form of currency
C) depression will come and we will be f*cked, third world style
D) we will become a satallite country

Seems that (A) is a thousand times more likely though. Which it seems was the biggest agenda of Bilderberg this year.

I'm going with C. And it will make the "Great Depression" look like a grand 'ole time.

Yur such a negative Nelly.

Juan_Bottom wrote:Yur such a negative Nelly.

I like to use the term "realist".

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Yur such a negative Nelly.

I like to use the term "realist".

Then you realize that if the plan is martial law that you are going on vacation, right?

I prefer to not think about myself, myself.

Juan_Bottom wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Yur such a negative Nelly.

I like to use the term "realist".

Then you realize that if the plan is martial law that you are going on vacation, right?

I prefer to not think about myself, myself.

I know. What will be will be. That reminds me.... I gotta start packing.

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Yur such a negative Nelly.

I like to use the term "realist".

Then you realize that if the plan is martial law that you are going on vacation, right?

I prefer to not think about myself, myself.

I know. What will be will be. That reminds me.... I gotta start packing.

Don't worry about it. I hear that Bob Barker will provide everything that you need once you get there......

Dancing Mustard wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

TheScarecrow wrote:have you by any chance studied economics at all jay???

I'd rather have a little inflation than the TRILLIONS of dollars of debt that we won't be able to pay back in 10,000 years.

So that's a 'no' then?

Aright, pipe-down tennis-ball man.

U trolling Jay? Jay is my best-good-friend. What did he do to you?

Juan_Bottom wrote:U trolling Jay? Jay is my best-good-friend. What did he do to you?

No, not Jay, Mustard.

jay_a2j wrote:
You forgot 1 small detail...... There is still $100,000,000 in the economy but now we have to pay back 100,000 + interest! And your example falls short in that Bush borrows in the hundreds of BILLIONS to fund this "war on terror" (see rumor of war in Bible), in essence we will never be able to get out of debt! It's like paying the minimum payment on a credit card, the bank will suck you dry and you will never get out of debt.

for crying out load just sub those bigger numbers into my example!

if bush was to PRINT the money there would be a HUGE increase in inflation and a HUGE decrease in the purchasing power of the dollar.

also if bush was to print hte money im pretty sure you would have a thread started up about that too...

True, but depending on the liquidity of the bond market and the elasticity of the marginal schedule of investment, Bush may as well have printed those dollars.

i would agree with you but for the sheer AMOUNT of omeny we are talking about here...