Conquer Club

Chalk up another thread derailed by the epic battle between atheism and Christianity

Norse wrote:

CrazyAnglican wrote:Again each area kept it's own culture. Please document where a specific country was made to adopt an entirely foreign identity in this manner, much less by the Christian churches.

Of course, you do tend to see many shrines to Odin scattered around the Germanic region, and Obodorittes practising thier slavic rituals.

This is irrelevant to both sides, surely?

No, each area didn't keep its own culture intact. Christianity overwhelmed every religion going. But that's the whole point of Christianity, anyway.

On the other hand, it hardly matters to an atheist if one religion displaces another.

Exactly where is the conflict here?

We may as well move this over to the "Continuation of Christianity Debate" Thread where is belong Norse. Your thesis, I believe, was that Christianity is an evil faith. You can't support that statement, but I'm certainly interested in seeing you try

CrazyAnglican wrote:We may as well move this over to the "Continuation of Christianity Debate" Thread where is belong Norse. Your thesis, I believe, was that Christianity is an evil faith. You can't support that statement, but I'm certainly interested in seeing you try

I will not only support it, back it up and hammer the point home, but I will then have you running to the hills crucifix in one hand, bible in the other.

Then I will masturbate, frequently whilst thinking about jesus.

*Fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap*

Norse wrote:

CrazyAnglican wrote:We may as well move this over to the "Continuation of Christianity Debate" Thread where is belong Norse. Your thesis, I believe, was that Christianity is an evil faith. You can't support that statement, but I'm certainly interested in seeing you try

I will not only support it, back it up and hammer the point home, but I will then have you running to the hills crucifix in one hand, bible in the other.

Then I will masturbate, frequently whilst thinking about jesus.

Well sir,

Then it's on. Here's the link.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... &start=165

ok, lets go thru this again: sinning against your body is bad

Knight! Where've you been?!

Knight of Orient wrote:ok, lets go thru this again: sinning against your body is bad

Am I sinning right now?

firth4eva wrote:if its so wrong why does it feel so right?

anyway being serious. christians used to believe that an orgasm was contact with god. the most pleasure you feel because you are with god. or something like that

that was from the Da Vinci Code, which is a load of bollocks!

Then we need an exact definition of "to sin", in order to ascertain whether masturbation is a sin or not.

Thank you Nate.

I think we can leave out the 4th definition in Webster's, though, it uses the concept of sin to define sin, which, frankly, will not do for our purposes.


So... 2 main points in Webster's, firstly, transgression of divine law and any act that transgresses divine law.
Secondly, any "reprehensible action" or action that offends against a principle, especially religious or moral principles.

The first leads to the question what "divine law" is and how one is supposed to recognize it when one sees it. I feel that this might turn into a VERY long and heated discussion that will only lead to all participants throwing up their hands in disgust and walking away from it all.
The second might be somewhat easier to work with, though it might take a few preliminary studies to find out whether masturbation is thought to be reprehensible by a majority of a yet to be determined group of people, and if they think it offends their moral or religious principles.


The Easton Bible Dictionary picks up the first definition in Webster's but elaborates in so far as it includes ways in which sin can be commited. However, it also contains the "law of god" as a premise. And as I said, I fear that such a discussion will only lead to unnecessary hostility. Maybe a second thread is in order to separate the discussion into two.


If we want to avoid polling and evaluating a sufficiently large group of people we could take the results from this thread as a basis to start from. Out of 113 answers so far 23 say that masturbation is wrong and 90 say that it is not. Of course, ethics and esthetics by majority usually lead to results that noone is content with. But since we lack a better basis to start from we might as well start here.

Now, the new initial point, thanks to KoO, is "sinning against your [own] body is bad". Based on the 2nd point I would have to say that it to me seems very hard and at the same time very easy to sin against ones own body. On the one hand, how can something that is not a crime and which a person does in private offend anyone else? And furthermore, I doubt any sane person would do anything to him- or herself that offends his or her own principles to the degree that it can be said to be more than a nuisance.
On the other hand, we're also talking about religious principles, and religious principles have a way of being applied to more or less everything, whether people like it or not, whether they agree with them or not. But, we still don't know whether the people who agree with these principles actually are offended by the fact that others do not act in accordance with them. At least as long as they don't flaunt it. If they do it becomes an other matter, because flaunting it is an act of provocation MEANT to, at the very least, severely irritate those who see a certain action as a sin.

So... morally very hard to sin against ones own body, religiously very easy when judged from those peoples point of view who agree with certain principles that the "perpetrator" might not agree with or which might even be completely umknown to him or her, I think that sums it up pretty well.

If anyone wants to go into the matter of transgressing divine law, please create another thread for it, because the two discussions deriving from different definitions are really not compatible I think.

ParadiceCity9 wrote:whoever said yes is gay

exactly

griffin_slayer wrote:

ParadiceCity9 wrote:whoever said yes is gay

exactly

i said yes, and i'm heterosexual.

Hitman079 wrote:

griffin_slayer wrote:

ParadiceCity9 wrote:whoever said yes is gay

exactly

i said yes, and i'm heterosexual.

I guess we just don't know we're gay.

I knew there was a reason why the guy in luns' avatar kept appearing in my dreams.

MeDeFe wrote:Thank you Nate.

You're welcome. (by the way, I left off 6, 7 & 8 because they were so similar to 4 & 5)

MeDeFe wrote:So... morally very hard to sin against ones own body, religiously very easy when judged from those peoples point of view who agree with certain principles that the "perpetrator" might not agree with or which might even be completely umknown to him or her, I think that sums it up pretty well.

If anyone wants to go into the matter of transgressing divine law, please create another thread for it, because the two discussions deriving from different definitions are really not compatible I think.

I would agree with you that it is difficult when we're working from different definitions. The problem is, that their are so many ways to slice morality. Most people that are religious tie it to their religion. So I would argue that the basis or morality emerges from the character of God. Others argue that it is based on what's best for the most people, or what provides the most happiness over time. So the word "wrong" is already open to interpretation, and won't be defined in a helpful way until we reach a consensus on ethical theory. In light of our current culture, I don't see that happening.

Can someone just answer plainly is masturbation bad or ok?

Sure.

It's wrong.

But if you're simply going to take someone's word for it, you're morality is in trouble because you have no foundation for it.

duday53 wrote:Can someone just answer plainly is masturbation bad or ok?

No, we can't. From a medical standpoint, it's perfectly fine. But, depending on your religious and moral beliefs, it might not be.

just ask to be forgiven after your done.. Or don't think about anything, so your not lusting. then its ok

Beastly wrote:just ask to be forgiven after your done.. Or don't think about anything, so your not lusting. then its ok

so you saying wanking off to someone is bad but wanking off just plainly is ok?

duday53 wrote:

Beastly wrote:just ask to be forgiven after your done.. Or don't think about anything, so your not lusting. then its ok

so you saying wanking off to someone is bad but wanking off just plainly is ok?

Yes, but good luck doing that...

hecter wrote:

duday53 wrote:

Beastly wrote:just ask to be forgiven after your done.. Or don't think about anything, so your not lusting. then its ok

so you saying wanking off to someone is bad but wanking off just plainly is ok?

Yes, but good luck doing that...

What I can't see? is it hot in here?


What if you masturbate to jesus? does it count if it's a holy perversion? does it stick you in a catch-22?