Conquer Club

Unvote, Vote Charm

While I hold my opinion on Tails, I can let it go for today. I do not like this blunt buddying going on. That's a newbie mafia mistake.

The wagon is real

INCOMING ML ALL ABOARD

jak111 wrote:Unvote, Vote Charm

While I hold my opinion on Tails, I can let it go for today. I do not like this blunt buddying going on. That's a newbie mafia mistake.

At this point I think that Charm following mtamburini is more of a case of existing relationships outside of this game than two scumbudies. I mean it could certainly be 2 scum, but I don't think what we are observing elevates the chances of that beyond their default random odds.

charm wrote:So, Mr. Pancake, I thought it was because you thought I was following MTam which of course I'm not. Now I understand it is because you think I'm a guy with a hot avatar picture. I assure you I am female how should I prove this to you? You can ask any one in my clan, Gladiators of Noxious - I'm sure they would say there is no doubt that I am the fabulous Gladiatrix. Now, you on the other hand, do have a girl as your avatar and I did call you a girl in the other mafia game. So, if I offended you I'm so sorry - but you're the one that's being sheepy! You keep on pursuing me and you will prove to the town that you are Tail's mafia brother or being totally lame. From what I have seen, you're a pretty good player - but you never played with me before and you have no idea how wacky I am!!

No, it's because you're following mtam. We make up our own terms because this is the internet (Fun Fact: If you google "scummarining", pages from Conquer Club mafia games are the only results).

Now that that's dealt with, the actual matter and hand can be addressed, and it seems lie you're doing everything in your power NOT to address it. The only serious address you've given it in this post was "No I'm not", and that won't cut it. As a matter of fact, let's review your activity on this subject (which I will try to abridge for the sake of post brevity):

You made this post to kick things off.

charm wrote:Well, I say we give MTam 24 hours and if he doesn't show up and say something intelligent, then we lynch him.

As for Tail, he is now on my scum radar being that he posted this bs:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Blah blah something something day 1.
Get over it.
-Tails

Either of then can be lynched as dead weight! IMO

Before I go any further I want to point out that Mtam is mentioned here as well, with basically the same reasoning and a 24hr deadline. Also note the timestamp: Jun 30 2014 20:12

Back on the main topic, Tails responded to your post an others, ultimately leading to an exchange where he listed his suspicions. Your response to this was apathy, and to my loquacious inquiry into our further investigations you followed with this gem:

charm wrote:I have nothing intelligent to add. If you all are not going to talk much because we have such a long day, then there isn't much of a way to probe the mafia boys.

And that got my vote. Because at the very least, we should be trying to do something. That's why I asked my wordy "Now what?" in the first place. It's why I asked tails who his "suspects" were because even if that lead was tenuous, it would get discussion going.

Note the timestamp: Jul 02 2014 09:56. I guess we're not worried about Tambo anymore, huh?

So a full 48 hours after the issuance of your "ultimatum", Mtam appears with this:

something intelligent, then we lynch him.

And this:

Something useful

I'm blown away. Really. Certainly, he is dead weight no longer, right charm?

Luckily, Mtam DOES post some stuff of value, and its appearance alone is enough to switch votes, I guess.

charm wrote:There is the MTAM I know and love to play mafia with!!

UNVOTE

I'm changing my vote to....wait for it....

VOTE TAILS - besides, MTAM is much better looking and first impressions always lead me to be suspicious of shady characters!!

The reasoning here seems to be "because mtam is active" and something that does't really make a lot of sense to me...? There doesn't seem to be a lot of individual input to the case on the charm end of things. Matter of fact, Tambo even asks her for some input:

mtamburini wrote:Any other reads Charm?

*crickets*

Moving on...

charm wrote:You all have very good points. I've only had one game which was GoT that ended in a nL I think there is always value in trying to sniff out scum at all times even day 1. I think tail is scum - he is vague and pointless

This is pretty close to noncommittal, about as close as you can get to it while still making an assertion. Even then, it's fairly vapid. Tell me, is Tails as "vague and pointless" as your statement that he is so?

This is followed by another irrelevant post, and we are now where we are now.

In sum what we have is charm not simply siding with mtam, but generally not posting anything of substance, despite her insistence that that would be her theoretical stance:

charm wrote: I think there is always value in trying to sniff out scum at all times even day 1.

If that is truly the case, I suggest you begin doing that. Else, you're the most viable lynch for D1.

mtamburini wrote:

pancakemix wrote:

mtamburini wrote:If you dont want a claim from her why does your vote stay on her? What does your vote on her accomplish if you dont want a claim?

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the purpose of voting was to lynch, and that claiming is purely the realm of one who has votes, not the one casting them. I vote the scummiest player because they're the scummiest and I want to eliminate scummy players because I think they're more likely to be mafia. That's the whole idea, y'know.

So you are in favor of a lynch of charm regardless of claim?

I am saying charm's claim is not the end to which my vote is aimed. I vote her because I think she's acting scummy, and I want to lynch scummy people. Her claim is a tool for her to use to prevent herself from being lynched. Would a claim from her provide me with information that might be beneficial? Sure, if I believe her. But there are many factors to that. Sometimes claims can be unrealistic, but true. I feel that's certainly a risk in a game such as this one, especially when the mod posts something like this:

I have a list of 30 cyborg's (or people with cybernetic enhancements) of no particular alignment that I have assigned roles fairly randomly.

There's no telling who or what she might be, and there's a good chance she tells us her role and character and just lies about her alignment. Spiesr's HAL 9000 claim prove this point: he's claimed town, and you have a town read on him, but HAL was a villain by all accounts, and that's a role that could be on either side.

~Throws hands up~ I think PCM just tore apart Mtam and Charm.

But yeah, I think getting a claim from one of them at the very least would be beneficial for town.

jak111 wrote:~Throws hands up~ I think PCM just tore apart Mtam and Charm.

But yeah, I think getting a claim from one of them at the very least would be beneficial for town.

It seems to me that the "new person" in town always gets picked on and all the vets stick together because they know if they speak up in defence of someone like charm.

Most of the players that I've played with who call themselves "vets" or "good" players only have one dynamic of trying to find scum.

The way charm has been responding is so town.

The way tails has been responding has not.

If you can't see the difference is response to pressure then you need to reevaluate yourself as mafia players.

Also GMEOY jak for reasons I'm too lazy to type on my phone. When I get back on my laptop I'll be sure to explain them.

Need a vote count...I don't like how charm has been posting...I'm inclined to vote for her.

Mtam, I would like to point out that my case does a good deal in your favor. It functions solely as a case on charm, despite what jak says.

I will say with regard to tails that while I find his behavior not scummy, I dislike the precedent he invokes, as it devolves into the situation we have now between the two of you. I don't mind a change (and I don't defend him), I just don't find it lynchworthy.

The thing is, I can't assess any difference in response to pressure because charm has yet to do so. Unless diversion and inertia count as response, in which case she's not doing well.

As for Tails, I don't condone the vitriolic nature of his comments. Nor of yours. It cancels out, I guess. Both of you should probably take a step back.

You all can keep on voting on me if you like, but note this....
If I have to claim then you will find out that I am Town! You vets are a bunch of idiots if you're not reading between the lines - I've already handed you what my role is and you will only hurt the Town if you make me claim. Then those who keep the vote on me should definitely be considered mafia scum! Hence why I am staying with my vote on Tails!! And now I'm becoming suspicious of Pancake. I'll add Jak to the list too.

I have no clue if MTam is town or not - nor do I care if he is voted on. Like I said originally, I'm pursuing TAILS or MTAM. MTAM came back with more meaningful information then TAILS - so I took my vote off of MTAM and put it on TAILS.

Someone should lock up the vote on TAILS!! If I'm wrong then I'm sure the mafia boys will have no problem coming after me at night!!

charm wrote:If I have to claim then you will find out that I am Town! You vets are a bunch of idiots if you're not reading between the lines - I've already handed you what my role is and you will only hurt the Town if you make me claim.

Riiiight, it will hurt the town if we make anyone claim as well hmm? Unless you're a town doc, your claim would not effect town that much in the negative impact way.

pancakemix wrote:Mtam, I would like to point out that my case does a good deal in your favor. It functions solely as a case on charm, despite what jak says.

I will say with regard to tails that while I find his behavior not scummy, I dislike the precedent he invokes, as it devolves into the situation we have now between the two of you. I don't mind a change (and I don't defend him), I just don't find it lynchworthy.

The thing is, I can't assess any difference in response to pressure because charm has yet to do so. Unless diversion and inertia count as response, in which case she's not doing well.

As for Tails, I don't condone the vitriolic nature of his comments. Nor of yours. It cancels out, I guess. Both of you should probably take a step back.

I really don't care if your case is in my favour or not. And I will not step back until you tell me what the hell vitriolic means. Because I do not see me and tails comments similar.

charm wrote:You all can keep on voting on me if you like, but note this....
If I have to claim then you will find out that I am Town! You vets are a bunch of idiots if you're not reading between the lines - I've already handed you what my role is and you will only hurt the Town if you make me claim. Then those who keep the vote on me should definitely be considered mafia scum! Hence why I am staying with my vote on Tails!! And now I'm becoming suspicious of Pancake. I'll add Jak to the list too.

I have no clue if MTam is town or not - nor do I care if he is voted on. Like I said originally, I'm pursuing TAILS or MTAM. MTAM came back with more meaningful information then TAILS - so I took my vote off of MTAM and put it on TAILS.

Someone should lock up the vote on TAILS!! If I'm wrong then I'm sure the mafia boys will have no problem coming after me at night!!

Actions speak louder than vague hints. Don't make me waste my time poring over your one-liners. Once again, you're not giving anything that's worth discussing. WHY are you voting Tails? What's the logic? These are the things I want to hear, not empty threats that I'll be sorry for your lynch and accusations that I'm scum for voting you.

On another note: I dislike how this is coming down to "vets" and "new people". There's no "us" and "them" except town and mafia. I don't play to my experience. I just play the game. Everyone else should do the same.

mtamburini wrote:

pancakemix wrote:Mtam, I would like to point out that my case does a good deal in your favor. It functions solely as a case on charm, despite what jak says.

I will say with regard to tails that while I find his behavior not scummy, I dislike the precedent he invokes, as it devolves into the situation we have now between the two of you. I don't mind a change (and I don't defend him), I just don't find it lynchworthy.

The thing is, I can't assess any difference in response to pressure because charm has yet to do so. Unless diversion and inertia count as response, in which case she's not doing well.

As for Tails, I don't condone the vitriolic nature of his comments. Nor of yours. It cancels out, I guess. Both of you should probably take a step back.

I really don't care if your case is in my favour or not. And I will not step back until you tell me what the hell vitriolic means. Because I do not see me and tails comments similar.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vitriol

Upon review, I rescind my statement that your comments could be characterized as "vitriolic". They're not as angry as I thought. Tails should still cool his jets. No need for things to get out of hand.

As I already explained, the whole reason I have voted for Tails is that he was
1. Inactive
2. Once active, he said absolutely nothing of substance - maybe he is practicing the 5th amendment?
This is day 1 and therefore not too much to go on, ergo I am voting for tails. That is my cute newbie logic.

I am in no way doing an newbie vs vet thing. I look to your expertise to learn and become the best mafia player I can be!!

So, Pancake...why are you so persistent that Tails is not scum and why?

charm wrote:As I already explained, the whole reason I have voted for Tails is that he was
1. Inactive
2. Once active, he said absolutely nothing of substance - maybe he is practicing the 5th amendment?
This is day 1 and therefore not too much to go on, ergo I am voting for tails. That is my cute newbie logic.

I am in no way doing an newbie vs vet thing. I look to your expertise to learn and become the best mafia player I can be!!

So, Pancake...why are you so persistent that Tails is not scum and why?

Well, an inactive case doesn't really work for someone who is now active. And now something's happening, so he'll have some input I'm sure. But it's good to hear at least some reasoning. But they're very weak reasons, and that is why my vote is not on Tails. I find the reasoning tenuous.

To my eyes, you haven't contributed much either (though your question to me is a step in that direction) despite your prolific posting and a direct question from mtam on your reads. That's one of the reasons I'm voting you and not Tails.

So tell me then: what are your reads?

Yeah this is a lot of back and forth going on here. I am inclined to think that charm is playing what she usually does, random ideas that hint at more but don't actually give anything away. But this comes across as scum, a townie would be a little more direct. Someone once said don't lie as town, it never helps. But not telling the full truth is as good as lying.

Tails is just being a bit of an arse, I like day ones, I really dont like no lynch on day one, but it seems to be this sites meta. Tails is just feeding into this meta and it is hard to tell whether he is doing it togive scum a free day one kill or cause he just can't be arsed.

Tambo let me down, I was expecting a lot more 'woop arse' than what we got. The connections between charm and tambo are sickening but not inherently scummy imo. Tambo just tried to make a case out of thin air which is a good move on day one, strawman as many arguments as possible and see which one sticks.

Nebuchadnezer wrote:Need a vote count...I don't like how charm has been posting...I'm inclined to vote for her.

At the moment this is the way I am feeling. Tambo and Tails just seem to be going through the day one blues in different ways, I prefer Tambos way but I dont think either are scummy. But charms responses to PCM have left me feeling that there is more there, and because it appears she is holding back, it appears scummy to me.

FP by PCM

Tails activity and responses since called out have given me a town vibe. He may think that the day one is waste of time, but he has a least come back and shown that he is not 'inactive'.

charm wrote:As I already explained, the whole reason I have voted for Tails is that he was
1. Inactive
2. Once active, he said absolutely nothing of substance - maybe he is practicing the 5th amendment?
This is day 1 and therefore not too much to go on, ergo I am voting for tails. That is my cute newbie logic.

I am in no way doing an newbie vs vet thing. I look to your expertise to learn and become the best mafia player I can be!!

So, Pancake...why are you so persistent that Tails is not scum and why?

This has been an interesting read...

To me the one thing I can be certain of at this point is that there was mafia on the Spiesr bandwagon. that is of course he flips town, which we wont know until he dies. I am choosing for the moment to believe he is Town.

The vets know the deal with day one and that the real information accumulates like a snowball as the game wears on. True information starts with the night actions. The best indicators we have from the days are vote patterns.

I have been torn by several of the players on weather they are mafia or Town. From my own experience many times I have been wrong. Charm however does ask a very important question. A basic scum hunting question. On reading through several times I have noticed PCMs continued defense of Tails. Now there is nothing wrong persay with defending others as I tend to do that as well when I feel strongly about a player.

"So, Pancake...why are you so persistent that Tails is not scum and why" Good question.

Zivel wrote:Tails activity and responses since called out have given me a town vibe. He may think that the day one is waste of time, but he has a least come back and shown that he is not 'inactive'.

Maybe cause we were going to lynch his ass and didnt want to let his mafia team down.

Iron Butterfly wrote: "So, Pancake...why are you so persistent that Tails is not scum and why" Good question.

I wouldn't say that he's not scum. He could very well be scum. I do not find his current actions inherently scummy. Unbecoming, maybe. But not scummy.

pancakemix wrote:

Iron Butterfly wrote: "So, Pancake...why are you so persistent that Tails is not scum and why" Good question.

I wouldn't say that he's not scum. He could very well be scum. I do not find his current actions inherently scummy. Unbecoming, maybe. But not scummy.

I'm very becoming.

-Tails

Charm. You need to address the points pcm made, not make threats.

I wonder where HotShot and Virus got of to..

jak111 wrote:I wonder where HotShot and Virus got of to..

Its a Holiday weekend ya know.

pancakemix wrote:Mtam, I would like to point out that my case does a good deal in your favor. It functions solely as a case on charm, despite what jak says.

Isn't the main accusation against Charm that she is sheeping mtamburini, which only makes sense as a lynchable offence if is do to them being scumbuddies? And therefore any case for lynching Charm that derives from that base accusation is implicitly also a case for lynching mtamburini, no? Or are you suggesting a borderline policy lynch for poor play?

charm wrote:Someone should lock up the vote on TAILS!! If I'm wrong then I'm sure the mafia boys will have no problem coming after me at night!!

Mafia would kill someone who look like they are about to get their self lynched why? And lynching Tailgunner would prevent this how?