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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:57 pm
by jbrettlip
Gillipig wrote:The poll isn't very fair because this thread is full of owen's clanmates who will just automatically vote yes because he's in their clan!
i count 5 members of BpB posting in here. is that really going to decide a poll? and people that support him and realize this decision is a joke shouldn't be allowed to vote, because they disagree with you? this makes no sense. along with andy sending king achilles in here instead of standing up for his own bullshit decision, being a man and facing the forum community that wants real answers and not one of his immature banana jokes about the whole thing. i do like the idea of paying owen's bail. funny that a conqueror can cheat his way to the title, cheat to stay on top, get stripped of premium and get a 1 month ban, then come back as if nothing happened, but owen posting 6 times in 16 hours is FAR WORSE. this place makes no sense and andy should come out of hiding and respond to our valid complaints and objections about his bullshit banning of owen, again.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:07 pm
by Qwert
I newer change mine original clan(L4D change to WG),and we never play with or against BPB(now we need to arange one battle), and i dont look on owenshoter clan list,also creator of these topic its on mine foe list.
I hope that these things ,give me right to vote?
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:30 pm
by JoshyBoy
Gillipig wrote:The poll isn't very fair because this thread is full of owen's clanmates who will just automatically vote yes because he's in their clan! Don't you think it's hypocritical that you complain about moderators sticking up for each other when that's what you're doing? If Owen wasn't in your clan I'm sure a lot of you wouldn't be so vocal in his defense!!
I started this thread and he isn't in my clan. In fact, owen was the guy who gave me so much stick when I was a mod.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:40 pm
by Fruitcake
Gillipig wrote:The poll isn't very fair because this thread is full of owen's clanmates who will just automatically vote yes because he's in their clan!
I think you are mixing us up with the cc apparatchiks.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:45 pm
by ManBungalow
It rarely ceases to amaze me how much/frequently serious drama can arise on a site primarily designed for playing R*sk.
Re: owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:06 pm
by lord voldemort
BoganGod wrote:Gillipiggy, do your research on aussie politics. The current prime minister challenged the previous prime minister(who had won election in a landslide victory) in a labour party leadership vote. Mainly because of a few poor opinion polls. The labour party was lucky to be re elected. They are only governing as part of a coalition with the green party and only scraped into government again on secondary preferences. They have not showed a united front, and a known for their factional wars.
Back to owen and power tripping over moderation discussion please
They have a minority governement. Pretty much they are useless as the upper house is liberal. And the Greens and independents hold their advantage in the lower house.
Only labor could pull Australia through the global recession as one of the least affected countries and manage to lose the next election
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:40 pm
by Woodruff
I've never particularly cared for owenshooter. He's just been too over-the-top for my tastes. By the same token, the ONLY reason his ban was 3 months is because of his history of previous issues, NOT because this particular incident actually deserved a 3 month punishment. This highlights the discriminatory (yes, I said discriminatory and I meant it) and unfair nature of the policy itself.
Now, both owenshooter and I were very actively involved in the discussions that led to the escalating punishment system and we were, at the time, in favor of how we thought it was going to be implemented. However, neither of us foresaw how it was going to actually be used (neither of us is in agreement with this, and I can state that for him because he's said it many times himself). If it is to remain in place and no longer be considered discriminatory and unfair, it really must have some mechanism for remediation of the previous punishments built into it, such as a way for previous punishments to go away over "certain lengths of time of good behavior".
Re: owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:07 pm
by thenobodies80
qwert wrote:one thing what i hate most,its that in some issue with Mods, every mod say same. Similar situation like in map foundry,where one CA demand one thing,and all other CA and Foundry foreman jump in defence of these .
Qwert, are you referring to the past or the present? If you're referring to the present, then what you said is 100% wrong. In fact no more than a week ago I found myself in disagreement with one of my CAs and I clearly (but respectfully) said him that he was wrong.
Sorry for this small off topic digression, but since that post could be referred to me I think it's correct to say the truth.
Now, I can't turn off my blue color while posting, but even if it's true I'm a CA, I'm also a CC user like everyone else. So, let me say that I personally don't agree with every single aspect of the current escalating system on CC and even though I know that owenshooter doesn't like the foundry so much, on the contrary I find him one of the most fun users on CC (although I don't totally agree with his style), and in this case I believe that 3 months isn't a "fair punishment". I have never given more than an official warning to a user, because in 99% of cases I think that, in a world where (luckily) the people have the freedom to say what they think, words make much more than a ban.
But I'm just a mapmaker and a CA, and my role here is not to decide how the system should work. For what I can see the problem with owen is that he has a long list of previous records, so the 3 months ban is the next step in this case.
Said that, let me escape from the "GD hell" and go back to my small, but comfortable, world of maps.
Nobodies
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:27 pm
by Gillipig
natty_dread wrote:Gillipig wrote:The poll isn't very fair because this thread is full of owen's clanmates who will just automatically vote yes because he's in their clan! Don't you think it's hypocritical that you complain about moderators sticking up for each other when that's what you're doing? If Owen wasn't in your clan I'm sure a lot of you wouldn't be so vocal in his defense!!
OMG, that's like
the stupidest thing I've heard in a looooooong time... and I've heard
plenty of stupid. You're basically saying this poll is unfair because... what, people who disagree with you are allowed to vote?
It's like, you go into Switzerland when there's a presidential election in Switzerland, and then you complain it's unfair because all the voters are Swiss. Or something.
I don't think you read what you quoted because what you're saying makes no sense!
Woodruff wrote:I've never particularly cared for owenshooter. He's just been too over-the-top for my tastes.
The same reason I don't like him!
Woodruff wrote:Now, both owenshooter and I were very actively involved in the discussions that led to the escalating punishment system and we were, at the time, in favor of how we thought it was going to be implemented. However, neither of us foresaw how it was going to actually be used (neither of us is in agreement with this, and I can state that for him because he's said it many times himself). If it is to remain in place and no longer be considered discriminatory and unfair, it really must have some mechanism for remediation of the previous punishments built into it, such as a way for previous punishments to go away over "certain lengths of time of good behavior".
I like the idea but I don't think that would affect this case! The thought of owenshooter showing good behavior long enough to get his bans discounted is pure science fiction
!
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:02 pm
by natty dread
Gillipig wrote:I don't think you read what you quoted because what you're saying makes no sense!
Yes... I suspect that it doesn't, to you.
I'm not calling you stupid though, that would be flaming and would probably get me a 3 month ban or something. I am simply expressing my amazement at the incredibly, ridiculously stupid things you say.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:23 pm
by Crazyirishman
Now lets face it Gilli and all the other nay-sayers, Owen is like the crazy vietnam war veteren uncle of these forums with his history lesson reminders, the good-ol-days rants, and other shenanigans. I for one, and I'm sure others do as well read the posts with an "okay grandpa, ugh,yes we know. But youve been through some tough banning and now you can only really do damage to yourself, so wel'll let it slide" type mentality. Minus his clan and dibbun (but mostly the latter), the majority of posters dont wake up in the morning an think 'I wonder what that owen wrote today, that rascal him,' or really care one way or another. But he is one of the antitheses here on the site and as much as you may hate him, you love hating him for the often decently contructed bitching n moaning that he punches into his keyboard. Without that common, rebel without a cause instigator, where will all the discontent be aimed? As annoying and dickish he can be, he is needed for that purpose. And I'm personally going to miss the somewhat regular pm's (herpes is still right about the addiction) I receive from him during his 3 month stint.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:25 pm
by Frop
Crazyirishman wrote:(...) Owen is like crazy vietnam war veteren uncle of these forums (...)
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:51 pm
by Frop
By the way, share the warmth.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:59 pm
by Dibbun
Consider it shared.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:06 pm
by natty dread
Ahem.
Me and Owen haven't always seen eye-to-eye about things. When I was still new to CC, I used to find him sort of annoying, and I'm sure he felt the same way about me... I even remember us having some verbal slapfights by pm back in the day. Since then though, we've both got to know each other better, and I've come to regard Owen as a decent guy and a brilliant personality. And I'm not just saying this because I'm in BpB now, I would feel the same no matter what clan I was in (or if I wasn't in one at all).
I also like the CC community. If I didn't, I wouldn't spend so much time with all you fuckwits here. And I guess I always wanted to believe that Team CC was at least somewhat fair, that they wouldn't abuse their power... sadly, it's more and more looking like this isn't the case. They say power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Which is also another reason why guys like Owen are needed. They provide a counter-balance against the rampant hubris of power-hungry moderators, blow the whistle on them and keep them on their toes, so they at least know they can't just abuse their powers and then quietly sweep it under the carpet.
So, there's two issues... firstly, I don't see how anyone can look at the situation objectively and honestly claim the 6 posts Owen wrote are worthy of a ban. He wasn't being rude towards anyone. He wasn't flaming anyone. All he did was apparently hurt some fragile egos of the Entertainment Team...
I can understand if some Team CC members have had bad experiences with Owen in the past, and not regarding him highly - they have the right to their opinion, and not everyone likes each other. However, to use their position as mods/admins to pursue some kind of personal vendetta against him goes beyond petty and vindictive, it's downright malevolent and despicable behaviour, and I had always hoped Team CC would be above such behaviour.
Secondly, the escalating ban system... at the very least, Team CC should open up the discussion about the system. If a lot of people perceive it as flawed, then the least Team CC can do is acknowledge those opinions and treat them with respect, instead of stonewalling honest efforts to improve the site.
It's a risk whenever a group of people is put in a position of authority over other people, that those people become cliqued and start to regard themselves as elite, knowing better than the rest. It's simply human nature. The best leaders are those who acknowledge this and are able to look at their own behaviour honestly, and admit when they make mistakes. The worst ones are the kind that become dictators.
Team CC... those of you whom it may concern, you know who you are... think hard on what kind of community you want CC to be in the future. Do you want the forums to be a place where everyone looks around their shoulders, afraid of voicing dissent, lest they be silenced by moderators... or do you want a place where people feel like home and treat each other with respect? Either is possible, and it's your actions that decide the most.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:50 pm
by IR1SH ACE
As someone who enjoys this site for its main purpose..the playing of games rather than posting all over the forums as much as I can...I felt like throwing my support in for this cause...although I don't bother most of the time postin my thoughts/opinions in the many threads and forums there are to wade threw, I do enjoy readin many of these topics...
Some are pointless/stupid/interestin/funny....but even some of the worst horseshit of a topic thread can be worth the 30/40 mins of ur life that u spent scrolling threw the endless pages of crap posts just to find one post that makes u laugh so hard beer starts flowin out ur nostrils all over the keyboard....case in point...
This one nearly cost me a new laptop......
most topics that I read threw seem to escalate at some point into some form of trollin/baitin/flamin that can go on for a few pages and on the whole seem to get ignored by the mods or a polite reminder to keep it on topic...
Anyway the point of the whole post is as someone who is not a hardcore poster and only been a member for a year now,I know very little (except for what I hav read in topics) about the history of what owen has done/said to rub some people the wrong way (and hav no wish to read threw all his posts) but all the posts by him that I hav read mostly make me laugh...
I like his quick one liner style wit and jests....there are members on here that are far more in need of 3 month bans then this guy...
not looking at anyone in particular......
mod edit. had to blur that just in case its against the rules.....
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:44 pm
by clapper011
whoa! Please keep the inappropriate pictures out of these forums! |Thanks! And lets not flame and bait each other...
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:38 pm
by jpcloet
natty_dread wrote:Secondly, the escalating ban system... at the very least, Team CC should open up the discussion about the system. If a lot of people perceive it as flawed, then the least Team CC can do is acknowledge those opinions and treat them with respect, instead of stonewalling honest efforts to improve the site.
It was recently discussed again and Owen is lucky it is only 3 months, when it would have been much longer (You can thank me later). I've always been in favour of spanking a player a week at a time. This ban is actually overdue since Owen got a free pass on the last one that was submitted to admin.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:15 pm
by BigBallinStalin
clapper011 wrote:whoa! Please keep the inappropriate pictures out of these forums! |Thanks! And lets not flame and bait each other...
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:15 pm
by BigBallinStalin
Army of GOD wrote:natty_dread wrote:Gillipig wrote:The poll isn't very fair because this thread is full of owen's clanmates who will just automatically vote yes because he's in their clan! Don't you think it's hypocritical that you complain about moderators sticking up for each other when that's what you're doing? If Owen wasn't in your clan I'm sure a lot of you wouldn't be so vocal in his defense!!
OMG, that's like
the stupidest thing I've heard in a looooooong time... and I've heard
plenty of stupid. You're basically saying this poll is unfair because... what, people who disagree with you are allowed to vote?
It's like, you go into Switzerland when there's a presidential election in Switzerland, and then you complain it's unfair because all the voters are Swiss. Or something.
Not really but ok. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Was the correct answer "dildos"? That's what helps you sleep at night, amirite?
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:03 am
by jefjef
clapper011 wrote:whoa! Please keep the inappropriate pictures out of these forums! |Thanks! And lets not flame and bait each other...
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:46 am
by Leehar
I'm surprised the poll isn't as lopsided as some would suggest.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:08 am
by natty dread
60% thinks "yes". That's still a clear majority.
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:52 am
by Gillipig
natty_dread wrote:Gillipig wrote:I don't think you read what you quoted because what you're saying makes no sense!
Yes... I suspect that it doesn't, to you.
I'm not calling you stupid though, that would be flaming and would probably get me a 3 month ban or something. I am simply expressing my amazement at the incredibly, ridiculously stupid things you say.
I still don't think you understand what I actually wrote because there's much logic in it. But maybe that's the problem
!
You can call me stupid if think I am! What you can't do is spam my wall or follow me around the forum calling me stupid over and over again! There's a difference there and I think people who can't see that difference won't understand why owen was banned. There's something called balance and owen's got none of it! He can express his negative opinion without getting banned but expressing it over and over again in an increasingly annoying manner is trolling! Which he got banned for. His history doesn't do him any favors either! As I see it here there are 2 things being discussed in this thread. Did owen deserve a ban and the escalating system in bans. I think owen deserved the ban he got! But I think the escalating system might need another look into it. Maybe something can be arranged that leaves it a little bit more flexible? Owen would've gotten his ban either way because good behavior isn't his thing and according to jpcloet this ban is overdue anyway. Meaning he had it coming! Again
!
Re: The Passion of Owenshooter
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:51 am
by jammyjames
Quite frankly the escalating system shows he should be banned for the length of time he received. however the actual reason in itself for the ban I do not feel is justified.
