Conquer Club

I have proof that you are clear chap; but I don't get either rodion's logic in clearing you after the predicted scenario happened, someone gets it?
not really important from my perspective, it's more curiosity..

Right now, i think there are 2 scenarios possible for town here: either epi is a naive doctor either he lied and has never been a backup doctor. how does a naive doctor works, you are not aware about it when it's your role, you just think you are a doctor?
I know he is a liar but I don't know if from you guys's perspective what happened makes no doubt his story doesn't stand.

ok. chap has a pretty good analysis/summary there. I'm not too sure on Rodion's exact logic in clearing chap if Epitaph is scum but I do agree with it because of the other names involved. The only way i follow his logic is this - there are 3 mafia - MoB and betiko are mafia therefore if Epi is also mafia then chap has to be town.

Anyway I am going to look at my 3 main supects in turn

1. Epitaph - this is effectively the 3rd spot for me and the one that is the most uncertain coming into D5. N4 results/claims definitely make Epi more likely that chap, dazza, or Leitz for this spot
2. betiko - 99% sure - claimed inventor role is pretty ridiculous. MoB "clears" him "conclusively" as N2 mafia target AND MoB is definitely scum.
3. MoB - well seeing that I know my role and he counterclaimed this one is easy - 100% sure. The rest of Town don't have the benefit on my knowledge on my role so I have to prove it to them.



Epitaph:

Claim - Igor - backup doctor
Claimed actions - protect jim N3, Rodion N4

Comments - his claimed action for N3 cannot be confirmed in any way. It is obvious from the scene that he was not roleblocked on N4 and Rodion was also obviously not protected.
Conclusion - he lied therefore the possibility of him being scum is high. If he is town then he has seriously screwed up town.

I'm not really seeing major other scumtells from Epi but that is relatively minor compared to that claim combined with the lack of action.

betiko

Claim - Igor - Inventor
Claimed inventions - only 2 -

a) Forcefield Generator which was supposedly used N2 on Swifte
and
b) Seeing Eye Crystal which was supposedly used on N3 on chapcrap with a result of innocent.

Comments: an inventor with only 2 inventions and whose claimed inventions have names borrowed from a mafia guide online. I have mentioned before that saf is too good a mod to do something like that and Rodion showed where he used creative names that fit the flavour of the game in a previous game that had that role. Also an inventor with only 2 inventions does not fit. In addition to that MoB who is scum has absolutely "cleared" betiko as town. its clear that he was protecting his scum buddy - as Rodion basically put it - Where MoB is scum betiko is scum also. If you folks really want me to rehash the whole case on betiko let me know and I'll repost all the stuff.

Conclusion betiko is scum

MoB

claim - Skeletal Reindeer - busdriver

claimed actions
N1 bus PCM(sg7) and Swifte
N2 bus Swifte and betiko
N3 roleblocked and informed of it
N4 roleblocked and informed of it

claimed breadcrumb - a short instruction to town busdriver posted on D1.

Comments: PCM was scum - The information that came out on D4 was as a result of my clearing MeDeFe and placing my vote on PCM while claiming my role. MoB has never referred to the character before I claimed. According to him - Out of the many characters in the movie I somehow managed to guess his character and role and claim before him. I suppose he's trying to say that I apparently guessed that character since D1 since I have been bringing up since then. Note that I was the one who brought out the infotmation that MeDeFe was town and PCM as scum.

MoB also basically claims that out of a field of 7 town players mafia decided against roleblocking the cop (and still not kill him) and zoomed in on him (MoB) to block N3 where the odds of getting the busdriver at that time would have been about 1 in 6 but he seems to feel that the mafia felt it was a better bet to try to roleblock the busdriver at 1 in 6 odds than to leave the cop open to investigate freely (...while killing someone else) and this was after roleblocking him on N2... Huh? Sorry but this just doesn't make any sense

N4 mafia rolebocked the busdriver and killed the cop. which certainly makes more sense that MoB claimed scenario for N3. It was a lot easier for them here because they now knew that I was the busdriver and that I was helping town by driving the roleblock on the cop. Therefore they had to block me and having done so were now free to kill the cop. - compare this logic with what MoB claims for N3.

as with betiko if you folks want me to rehash everything on MoB let me know and I'll repost.

Conclusion MoB is scum

Time is tight for me so I'm trying to avoid having to make too many lengthy posts but if they are needed I will have to do them.

Can we get some input from the rest of you... MeDeFe.. have you heard enough so far to give an opinion. You are going to have to take a more leading role now since you are effectively proven as town from more than one source.

Epitaph1 wrote:

Leitz wrote:

Epitaph1 wrote:I might as well put this on the record too: Vote betiko

Why if I may ask?

He counterclaimed me for one.

Epitaph knows the heat is on him and I really believe this to be an attempt to turn it away to betiko as he knows we all are keen to believe betiko is scum. As I am of the same belief I'm keen to vote betiko too, but I'm going to hold off my vote for now.

@ chapcrap: I don't have any night actions.

Yup no action from me either chap.

I think the scum are Epi, betiko and MoB. I am most convinced of Epi just now due to Rodion's latest death.

betiko wrote:

Rodion wrote:

betiko wrote:well if leitz confirms medefe is jack it pretty much tells us pcm is scum, no need to wait for his claim or counterclaim.. unless you don't trust leitz. no one counter claimed sally and it's impossible not to have sally in the game. that clears leitz and medefe and puts a guilty sign on pcm (if leitz confirms medefe of course).

Assume Leitz confirms Medefe as Jack.

Name the 4 players that you think are scum.

i think epitaph, trini pcm dazza, in order of likelyness.

And i still hold to what I said on day 4. PCM has proven to be mafia.

Trini has made a case on me based on the fact that I was supposedly busdriven by him, so it's his word against mine; then that the inventions names were too commonly used so they had to be fake. what the hell seriously? that's a moot argument. At least one of his bus drives is impossible.

Then we have epitaph. again, my word against his; he claimed the same character, so that is nothing i can prove to the rest of you, but he failed to protect rodion when it was his mission last night.

And to finish, dazza. he softclaimed VT when nothing was asked on day 2, then he wanted to hammer everything and kind of speed lynched jonty on day 3. the discussion was still open, with plenty of time left and we hadn't reached a consensus.


To me, medefe is cleared because there is 1 jack and there is no counter claim on that; and leitz is cleared because there is 1 sally and no counterclaim on that. The only person that didn't claim his name is chap, and i don't see how he could have not counter claimed yet if he was one of these 2 characters. Chap is cleared because I got an innocent result and the godfather is dead. Mob is cleared because if trini is a liar on the busdriving thing on me, well then probably mob is the real bus driver. That is my definitive list till the end of the game, there is no other alternative possible than this.

betiko wrote:

betiko wrote:

Rodion wrote:

betiko wrote:well if leitz confirms medefe is jack it pretty much tells us pcm is scum, no need to wait for his claim or counterclaim.. unless you don't trust leitz. no one counter claimed sally and it's impossible not to have sally in the game. that clears leitz and medefe and puts a guilty sign on pcm (if leitz confirms medefe of course).

Assume Leitz confirms Medefe as Jack.

Name the 4 players that you think are scum.

i think epitaph, trini pcm dazza, in order of likelyness.

And i still hold to what I said on day 4. PCM has proven to be mafia.

Trini has made a case on me based on the fact that I was supposedly busdriven by him, so it's his word against mine; then that the inventions names were too commonly used so they had to be fake. what the hell seriously? that's a moot argument. At least one of his bus drives is impossible.

Then we have epitaph. again, my word against his; he claimed the same character, so that is nothing i can prove to the rest of you, but he failed to protect rodion when it was his mission last night.

And to finish, dazza. he softclaimed VT when nothing was asked on day 2, then he wanted to hammer everything and kind of speed lynched jonty on day 3. the discussion was still open, with plenty of time left and we hadn't reached a consensus.


To me, medefe is cleared because there is 1 jack and there is no counter claim on that; and leitz is cleared because there is 1 sally and no counterclaim on that. The only person that didn't claim his name is chap, and i don't see how he could have not counter claimed yet if he was one of these 2 characters. Chap is cleared because I got an innocent result and the godfather is dead. Mob is cleared because if trini is a liar on the busdriving thing on me, well then probably mob is the real bus driver. That is my definitive list till the end of the game, there is no other alternative possible than this.

just quickly -

1. which bus drive is impossible and why is it impossible?
2. What case against you based on the fact that I bus drove? stop skimming I replied that you were likely to be the person roleblocked beause of my busdrive. Stop skimming
3. you wish it were a moot argument but your inventor/invention claim is ridiculous
4. again where am I a liar on the busdriving thing? show it or stop skimming.
5. I agree that MeDeFe is cleared - if you remember I posted that he is cleared since D4. In fact that is what started all of this in the first place.
6. you didn't get an innocent result because you're scum and have no inventions although chap still seems to be cleared.
7. Great defense - its his word against mine - sounds like something scum would say.

To be honest, I agree that despite the inventions might have been given it seems odd safari wouldn't have thought of fancy names himself. So I stick to my FOS to betiko, but it is a suspicion, nothing more.

betiko wrote:
And to finish, dazza. he softclaimed VT when nothing was asked on day 2, then he wanted to hammer everything and kind of speed lynched jonty on day 3. the discussion was still open, with plenty of time left and we hadn't reached a consensus.

What do you mean I softclaimed and wanted to hammer everything? I wanted to lynch Rodion as I thought he was lying.

Speed lynched jonty? You serious mate?

Vote Count

Epitaph(1)- betiko
betiko(1)- Epitaph

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Per request, mass prod has been sent.

chapcrap wrote:MeDeFe, it has been claimed by Leitz that he is linked to you. You know nothing of this linkage, is that correct? That means that we can not officially clear Leitz, but I am inclined to believe him. What are your thoughts, MeDeFe?

This is more or less correct. Safari has given me no information about Leitz's alignment, I was not informed about the lover mechanic in any way. However, when Leitz claimed Sally as a one-way lover I took a good look at his behaviour throughout the game, and it fit perfectly. He'd never once voted me or in any way acted suspicious of me during the whole game until then, we'd disagreed about 2 or 3 things, but that's par for the course. That complete lack of aggression speaks volumes. A mafia fakeclaim of Sally, who manages to not even once go against Jack who's unknown to the scum... no, I think we can rule that out on reasons of improbability.

chapcrap wrote:I think we have the following options (in no particular order):

1. MoB and betiko
2. trini and betiko
3. MoB and dazza
   
4. Mob and Leitz
5. trini and dazza
   
6. trini and Leitz

Here is the previous vote count for Epi

Epitaph(5)-betiko, leitz, MoB, PCM, chap

So maybe this should be our list then.

When looking at the vote count, I'm not getting a lot of help deciding is the mafia because PCM is mafia and we believe that Epi is. Also, we believe that Leitz and I are not. To me, based on the vote count, either Epi is not mafia or trini and dazza are scum. I'm not sure if that's right, but that is kind of what the vote count says.

More breadcrumbs than that buddy. I breadcrumbed that Jimfinn's N1 investigation was NOT useless, even when Rodion commented that it was.




This is stupid. Just because you picked the skeletal reindeer in a whole list of characters from the movie, all of a sudden makes you the real busdriver??

REQUOTED FOR EMPHASIS


Lol that sentence made me laugh. It was obvious that the reindeer were in the game as a bus driver ever since I stopped the mafia kill on Betiko. You even said it yourself, Strike was the FIRST person to mention the skeletal reindeer after the scene, so if Strike could figure it out, I am pretty sure a team of mafia could probably figure it out too. "Emaciated quadriped" can only mean so many things.

trinicardinal wrote:the first person to actually mention the reindeer after that scene was strike

strike wolf wrote:Well emaciated quadriped could be Zero or it could be those skeleton reindeer.

Okay here you go. This is the players list copied and added back in the players before N3.

1. Leitz - Claimed Sally
2. MoB Deadly
7. dazza2008 - volunteered to hammer / likely mafia
8. trinicardinal - mafia
12. Epitaph1 - mafia
13. betiko - tried to kill him, cant be bus driver (illogical to switch himself with doc)
14. MeDeFe -
15. chapcrap - volunteered to hammer
Jimfinn at the time - cop
Strike - claimed zero
PCM - mafia

So not even putting that much thought into it, I got it narrowed down to 50/50 between me and MeDeFe. And it looks likes mafia was counting on Jim being clueless and not investigating one of the mafia that night. With 11 players alive and 3 possible guilty results (it is proven that the GF got an innocent reading this game) 7/11 odds of Jim getting an innocent result is pretty good for the mafia. Looks like they wanted me blocked so I couldnt mess things up, and they wanted Strike dead because with his character flavor, they were nervous he would have a powerful night action.

EBWOP - Sorry I needed a dark background for my snapshots to stand out.




More breadcrumbs than that buddy. I breadcrumbed that Jimfinn's N1 investigation was NOT useless, even when Rodion commented that it was.




This is stupid. Just because you picked the skeletal reindeer in a whole list of characters from the movie, all of a sudden makes you the real busdriver??

REQUOTED FOR EMPHASIS


Lol that sentence made me laugh. It was obvious that the reindeer were in the game as a bus driver ever since I stopped the mafia kill on Betiko. You even said it yourself, Strike was the FIRST person to mention the skeletal reindeer after the scene, so if Strike could figure it out, I am pretty sure a team of mafia could probably figure it out too. "Emaciated quadriped" can only mean so many things.

trinicardinal wrote:the first person to actually mention the reindeer after that scene was strike

strike wolf wrote:Well emaciated quadriped could be Zero or it could be those skeleton reindeer.

Okay here you go. This is the players list copied and added back in the players before N3.

1. Leitz - Claimed Sally
2. MoB Deadly
7. dazza2008 - volunteered to hammer / likely mafia
8. trinicardinal - mafia
12. Epitaph1 - mafia
13. betiko - tried to kill him, cant be bus driver (illogical to switch himself with doc)
14. MeDeFe -
15. chapcrap - volunteered to hammer
Jimfinn at the time - cop
Strike - claimed zero
PCM - mafia

So not even putting that much thought into it, I got it narrowed down to 50/50 between me and MeDeFe. And it looks likes mafia was counting on Jim being clueless and not investigating one of the mafia that night. With 11 players alive and 3 possible guilty results (it is proven that the GF got an innocent reading this game) 7/11 odds of Jim getting an innocent result is pretty good for the mafia. Looks like they wanted me blocked so I couldnt mess things up, and they wanted Strike dead because with his character flavor, they were nervous he would have a powerful night action.

I had more to add but posted too fast. More on Strike: Or maybe they just wanted to shoot the veteran because they knew sooner or later a case would be on them. Lets not forget he mostly lead this game with cases. If he turned his eyes to a mafia member, there was not a good chance they were going to squirm out.

I am ready to vote Epitaph by the way. I dont think there is any chance he is a naive backup doctor. That wouldn't really make sense. It was obvious I got roleblocked, so he definitely didn't. Rodion would still be alive if he was telling the truth.

I would like to vote MoB for using snapshots instead of just quoting.

We can't even see who said the things that you took snapshots of. That is not a good or effective way to try and do that.

ugh - that was all from Trini on this very page.

Except for the one part where i snapshotted myself. (my breadcrumb)

Ill refrain from doing that from now on, but with all the text and the [quote ] tags, I get confused where my text is and their text is and it just makes it easier to make big posts when their quotes are one line long, versus 8-9. Thats why I try to avoid nested quotes as much as possible too.

...... well the previous page now.

I don't have much time to post today but I want you folks to look at something that came up in Mafia discussions here (Note the switch from I to some)

safariguy5 wrote:

pmchugh wrote:Yeah if I understand correctly you just post something like:

Edocsil visited pmchugh last night. (in response to "Track edocsil")

Both pmchugh and edocsil visited sarifguys house last night. (in response to "watch sarifguy")

Edocsil is mafia. (for cop)

God damn it pmc, for the last time, it's SAFARI.

Anyways, when it comes to roleblocking someone, it can depend on the mod's discretion. If the roleblocker blocks an investigative role (cop, flavor cop, watcher, tracker) then I would PM the cop and say "You were roleblocked".

If the roleblocker blocks a role with a night action that isn't investigative, some mods will still PM the roleblocked person. That is up to the mod.

if you wan to see the whole discussion check here. - viewtopic.php?f=609&t=166296

Just some further credence to the fact that safari does not inform roles that do not expect a response when they have been roleblocked. (note he does not say "I" in this case unlike the previous sentence)

I'll give you a proper response when I have a little more time MoB.. We're starting audit on a client today so I won't be around much longer. for today. You can expect a response tomorrow.

Does anyone know what Victor Sullivan would do in terms of notification? Let's not forget he is a co-mod here, maybe it came up in conversation and Victor suggested it to Safari and he agreed?

I don't know how he decided it. All I know is I got the notification in my inbox and I have brought it forward. This is a heavy-vanilla game, we only have a few roles with actions.

Cop
Doc
Inventor
Bus

Based on what you are saying, only the inventor and cop would receive a notification. And you think the inventor is fake, so only the cop will receive a notification and thats it. Maybe for balance reasons they wanted to make the Roleblocker known earlier in the game. With no tracker or watcher, its almost impossible to find the roleblocker anyway.

I'm a bit concerned at the level of activity, especially considering a mass prod (by request) was sent. Consider this a reminder to post, or a deadline will be enforced.

I still think the scum are Epitaph, betiko and mob. I would be happy t lynch any of them.

What are the rest of your thoughts?

I'm going to start voting. I think we've had plenty of discussion.

Everyone is pretty much in agreement that Epi is scum, so unvote vote Epitaph

Aside from that, I know I listed 4 scum choices before, but I just highly doubt some. I'm thinking it is one of these:

MoB and betiko
trini and dazza

For my money, I'd bet on trini and dazza right now, but that's not very confident.

I agree that most of us believe Epitaph is scum. The problem I'm currently having is the fact that mafia are not hiding the fact that they don't want Epitaph lynched. So either they know it is too late to protect him, or I have overlooked certain people protecting Epitaph.

Until the next vote count I'm going to keep my vote on hold in case he might get speed lynched.

dazza2008 wrote:I still think the scum are Epitaph, betiko and mob. I would be happy t lynch any of them.

What are the rest of your thoughts?

you know if Epi is really scum and it certainly seems that he is then it would seem that my list early in D4 would be correct

MoB
betiko
PCM and
Epitaph

I should have added that I'm ready to vote for Epitaph as well once we have all decided that we have had enough discussion. chap don't bet money though unless you want to lose some money to me in which case I'll bet you a billion dollars (1000 to 1 odds if you like) that I am town.