Page 7 of 10
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:24 pm
by MeDeFe
jay_a2j wrote:MeDeFe wrote:Jenos Ridan wrote:Neoteny wrote:jay_a2j wrote: 
You know I still love you.
Illiad is a presumptive fool.
Well, jay doesn't always make it easy for us, but still, we'd never let him down.
jay_a2j wrote:It HAS occurred before! In the 1800's it was warmer than it is now!
In less than 30 seconds I found two graphs that disagree with you.
What? less that 2 degrees change in almost 200 years and you are scared to death? And if you want the Gore graph that shows CO2 levels vs. temp. levels and the MISREPRESENTATION of it......
CLICK HERE!
I bolded one part, would you like to reformulate your response or continue sidetracking?
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:25 pm
by jay_a2j
MeDeFe wrote:I bolded one part, would you like to reformulate your response or continue sidetracking?
I pretty much slam dunked your argument. Less than 2 degrees! Evidence of global warming due to SUV's? I guess in the winter here in NY you could make a case for us entering an "ice age".
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:42 pm
by Curmudgeonx
mpjh wrote:The same way that we have exhausted the ocean fisheries, denuded the rain forest, created monocultures of plants, destroyed the habitat of a multitude of species, poisoned the water with hormones, poisoned our meat and chicken with hormones and antibiotics, and poisoned our fruit with pesticides, with sheer determination and abandon.
How many species habitats were destroyed prior to the last 500 years?
What were the population of the ocean fisheries prior to 500 years ago?
Poisoned our meat, chicken and fruit that we domesticated for that purpose, the same meat,chicken and fruit that really shouldn't be considered "natural" or "organic" anyway, so how does that hurt "Mother Nature"?
You look around and say "things are changing so fast!" without any evidence that this blink of a moment in the age of the earth really means anything at all. And don't whinge "Think of the children!", our great-grand parents didn't think of us, they were too busy trying to survive.
Is being wasteful and inefficient wrong? Yes it is, but not on a climate morality scale, but it is wrong just to be that damn untidy.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:52 pm
by HapSmo19
WOW!! It's HOT today. 86 degrees in mid august!! This is crazy!
The graph that shows a global temperature increase of nearly two degrees in 150 years has totally changed my opinion. At that rate, things could become mildly-unpleasant in about 900 years or so.
Where do I send all my money and to whom do I sign my car over to? Because I just learned that it's about addressing the problem regardless of what is causing it. I'm hope my money gets there in time to save us.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:52 pm
by MeDeFe
jay_a2j wrote:MeDeFe wrote:I bolded one part, would you like to reformulate your response or continue sidetracking?
I pretty much slam dunked your argument. Less than 2 degrees! Evidence of global warming due to SUV's? I guess in the winter here in NY you could make a case for us entering an "ice age".
Look jay, I don't think you're getting my point. You claimed that the earth was warmer in the 1800s than it is now. I found those two graphs which (provided they are correct) prove that statement of yours wrong. I didn't say anything about SUVs or Michael Gore or Al Moore or CO2 levels, so why do you start talking about that?
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:08 pm
by jonesthecurl
jay_a2j wrote:MeDeFe wrote:I bolded one part, would you like to reformulate your response or continue sidetracking?
I pretty much slam dunked your argument. Less than 2 degrees! Evidence of global warming due to SUV's? I guess in the winter here in NY you could make a case for us entering an "ice age".
Specifically, you claimed it was warmer in the 1800's . It was not. See the graphs you've "slam-dunked".
-oh, defe said it already. well, uj, then yeh he's right there.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:50 pm
by jay_a2j
MeDeFe wrote:jay_a2j wrote:MeDeFe wrote:I bolded one part, would you like to reformulate your response or continue sidetracking?
I pretty much slam dunked your argument. Less than 2 degrees! Evidence of global warming due to SUV's? I guess in the winter here in NY you could make a case for us entering an "ice age".
Look jay, I don't think you're getting my point. You claimed that the earth was warmer in the 1800s than it is now. I found those two graphs which (provided they are correct) prove that statement of yours wrong. I didn't say anything about SUVs or Michael Gore or Al Moore or CO2 levels, so why do you start talking about that?
On the contrary, your graph starts at 1860. (40 years unaccounted for) And this was third party info. so not automatically 100% accurate. Still, live life. Pack up your SUV and take the kids camping. Stop buying into the scare tactics of Al Gore. A 2 degree rise in temp. is no reason for panic.
Peace.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:53 pm
by MeDeFe
jay_a2j wrote:MeDeFe wrote:jay_a2j wrote:MeDeFe wrote:I bolded one part, would you like to reformulate your response or continue sidetracking?
I pretty much slam dunked your argument. Less than 2 degrees! Evidence of global warming due to SUV's? I guess in the winter here in NY you could make a case for us entering an "ice age".
Look jay, I don't think you're getting my point. You claimed that the earth was warmer in the 1800s than it is now. I found those two graphs which (provided they are correct) prove that statement of yours wrong. I didn't say anything about SUVs or Michael Gore or Al Moore or CO2 levels, so why do you start talking about that?
On the contrary, your graph starts at 1860. (40 years unaccounted for) And this was third party info. so not automatically 100% accurate. Still, live life. Pack up your SUV and take the kids camping. Stop buying into the scare tactics of Al Gore. A 2 degree rise in temp. is no reason for panic.
Peace.
There was also a second graph that started about 1000 years earlier.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:42 pm
by Iliad
jay_a2j wrote:MeDeFe wrote:Jenos Ridan wrote:Neoteny wrote:jay_a2j wrote:You know I still love you.
Illiad is a presumptive fool.
Well, jay doesn't always make it easy for us, but still, we'd never let him down.
jay_a2j wrote:It HAS occurred before! In the 1800's it was warmer than it is now!
In less than 30 seconds I found two graphs that disagree with you.
What? less that 2 degrees change in almost 200 years and you are scared to death? And if you want the Gore graph that shows CO2 levels vs. temp. levels and the MISREPRESENTATION of it......
CLICK HERE!
Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:10 pm
by jay_a2j
Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Hmmm when you find a way to make the Earth's temperature a constant, you let scientists know, because it has NEVER been constant. (So much for plants and animals not adapting "quick enough") Less than 2 degrees in almost 200 years is hardly quick either.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:05 pm
by HapSmo19
Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Don't do it Jay.
The sooner they admit that this is just their religion and Al Gore is their preacher, the sooner it can be given true recognition and named for what it actually is: The Doomsday Cult #4,394
These are probably the same people that call
you a "conspiracy nut".
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:12 pm
by jay_a2j
HapSmo19 wrote:Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Don't do it Jay.
The sooner they admit that this is just their religion and Al Gore is their preacher, the sooner it can be given true recognition and named for what it actually is: The Doomsday Cult #4,394
These are probably the same people that call
you a "conspiracy nut".
indeed.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:27 pm
by got tonkaed
Im sure ive posted this before, but as far as the people who are heavily against any version of a global warming issue, ive never understood why their opposition manifests in the way that it does. While i understand the desire for any american to believe that a person should be able to do just about whatever is legally permissible to their choosing (especially in terms of consumption - which most americans believe is a god given right), it seems incredibly shortsighted in how people react.
Instead of saying, well i dont really believe any of this is happening so ill make sure to try to oppose bills that have that type of funding, or wont invest my own personal dollars in green companies or maybe even ill debate the issue with those who believe...
people go around doing this.
"Im going to take my SUV, and consume and waste as much as i feel like it because this is all a big lie and people are trying to take over my life! Im not gonna let those whack job liberals tell me how to live!"
I mean come on. There arent any lizardmen out there who are plotting the downfall of western capitalist society to replace it with whatever socialist related title your planning on using. Sure there is a lobby of people who take climate change seriously, but they are no different than any other politically strong lobby. Acting somewhat immature about the issue has never in my experience won anyone ever.
While this does refer to posters in this thread, its more a general rant and can be disregarded as such.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:38 pm
by jay_a2j
I have nothing against those who want to be "green". I do draw the line when facts are misrepresented for a cause, creating a panic, making those who drive SUV's "evil" and such. And when they start to talk about a Carbon tax, they can kiss my Carbon.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:46 pm
by got tonkaed
jay_a2j wrote:I have nothing against those who want to be "green". I do draw the line when facts are misrepresented for a cause, creating a panic, making those who drive SUV's "evil" and such. And when they start to talk about a Carbon tax, they can kiss my Carbon.
Then you should in theory have a problem with just about every political lobby there is, which would quite likely be a negative in as far as thinking about your own political interests.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:51 pm
by jay_a2j
got tonkaed wrote:jay_a2j wrote:I have nothing against those who want to be "green". I do draw the line when facts are misrepresented for a cause, creating a panic, making those who drive SUV's "evil" and such. And when they start to talk about a Carbon tax, they can kiss my Carbon.
Then you should in theory have a problem with just about every political lobby there is, which would quite likely be a negative in as far as thinking about your own political interests.
I think all lobbies should be illegal. That is what is ruining this country. (among other things) You have a anti-illegal immigrant candidate get $200,000 campaign contribution from a lobby and all of the sudden they have changed their view. (as an example) We need people running for office with convictions on what they believe, not people who can be "bought".
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:18 am
by Iliad
jay_a2j wrote:Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Hmmm when you find a way to make the Earth's temperature a constant, you let scientists know, because it has NEVER been constant. (So much for plants and animals not adapting "quick enough") Less than 2 degrees in almost 200 years is hardly quick either.
It may have never been constant but we are changing it, and it is changing way too rapidly. You may scoff at even two degrees, but two degrees makes a world of a difference.
Sure there were cool and warm periods. And guess what happened: bottlenecks! And now we're accelerating it to yet another bottleneck
From previous experiences I know nothing that anyone can say will change your mind jay, you will always remain an ignorant stubborn person. But if you don't believe in climate change why still destroy the enviroment? You may not believe in climate change but it's pretty hard to argue against deforestation, increasing deserts, animals and plants dying out, the massive over-fishing at sea, etc.
Believe what you will, but why completely deny facts at face value? We are fucking over the planet and that is obvious.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:30 am
by jay_a2j
Iliad wrote:jay_a2j wrote:Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Hmmm when you find a way to make the Earth's temperature a constant, you let scientists know, because it has NEVER been constant. (So much for plants and animals not adapting "quick enough") Less than 2 degrees in almost 200 years is hardly quick either.
It may have never been constant but we are changing it, and it is changing way too rapidly. You may scoff at even two degrees, but two degrees makes a world of a difference.
Sure there were cool and warm periods. And guess what happened: bottlenecks! And now we're accelerating it to yet another bottleneck
From previous experiences I know nothing that anyone can say will change your mind jay, you will always remain an ignorant stubborn person. But if you don't believe in climate change why still destroy the enviroment? You may not believe in climate change but it's pretty hard to argue against deforestation, increasing deserts, animals and plants dying out, the massive over-fishing at sea, etc.
Believe what you will, but why completely deny facts at face value? We are fucking over the planet and that is obvious.
I accept your concession.
I was just talking about this the other day. Years ago I remember the summers being hotter than in the past few years. I mean we used to have 90+ degree days. Now 90+ days are few and far between. This summer has been extremely mild.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:12 pm
by Snorri1234
jay_a2j wrote:Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Hmmm when you find a way to make the Earth's temperature a constant, you let scientists know, because it has NEVER been constant. (So much for plants and animals not adapting "quick enough") Less than 2 degrees in almost 200 years is hardly quick either.
Jay shows his lack of understanding of biology Episode 235:
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:25 pm
by jay_a2j
Snorri1234 wrote:jay_a2j wrote:Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Hmmm when you find a way to make the Earth's temperature a constant, you let scientists know, because it has NEVER been constant. (So much for plants and animals not adapting "quick enough") Less than 2 degrees in almost 200 years is hardly quick either.
Jay shows his lack of understanding of biology Episode 235:
Snorri shows that he cam make less sense than a fat lady ordering a double quarter pounder meal with a "diet" coke.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:20 pm
by MeDeFe
jay_a2j wrote:Snorri1234 wrote:jay_a2j wrote:Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Hmmm when you find a way to make the Earth's temperature a constant, you let scientists know, because it has NEVER been constant. (So much for plants and animals not adapting "quick enough") Less than 2 degrees in almost 200 years is hardly quick either.
Jay shows his lack of understanding of biology Episode 235:
Snorri shows that he cam make less sense than a fat lady ordering a double quarter pounder meal with a "diet" coke.
He made sense to me. And you made a typo, but that's beside the point.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:21 pm
by Iliad
MeDeFe wrote:jay_a2j wrote:Snorri1234 wrote:jay_a2j wrote:Iliad wrote:Besides backtracking MASSIVELY you make the biggest mistake that non-informed idiots make. 2 degrees do not make a difference to us, because we can adapt to it wiht slightly more or less clothes. The animals and plants around the world are not so lucky: they cannot adapt that quickly. Jay I know you love debating while being completely uninformed but make an excpetion some time, eh?
Hmmm when you find a way to make the Earth's temperature a constant, you let scientists know, because it has NEVER been constant. (So much for plants and animals not adapting "quick enough") Less than 2 degrees in almost 200 years is hardly quick either.
Jay shows his lack of understanding of biology Episode 235:
Snorri shows that he cam make less sense than a fat lady ordering a double quarter pounder meal with a "diet" coke.
He made sense to me. And you made a typo, but that's beside the point.
QFT
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:46 pm
by jay_a2j
Iliad wrote:MeDeFe wrote:He made sense to me. And you made a typo, but that's beside the point.
QFT
What is this? The short bus reunion? Doesn't take much to amuse you guys does it?
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:59 pm
by Simon Viavant
jay_a2j wrote:What? less that 2 degrees change in almost 200 years and you are scared to death?
Newsflash: It has risen 20 degrees in 12,000 years, going up and down but generally rising. Yes 2 degrees in 200 years is something to be scared about.
Re: Global warming.
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:59 am
by Juan_Bottom
Simon Viavant wrote:Newsflash: It has risen 20 degrees in 12,000 years, going up and down but generally rising. Yes 2 degrees in 200 years is something to be scared about.
Unless there is a reasonable explination.