Conquer Club

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:25 am**

edbeard wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:IN1 should border PA1
IN2 should border PA3

IN1-PA1 maybe

IN2-PA3 would force me to make Indian Ocean have a +4 or something. I'd like to keep it with 3 borders.

I think OC1-OC3 should border though. And, maybe the same for NA1-NA3. would mean some border redrawings. not too hard though.

Can I suggest a re-draw of the territories in the Indian Ocean? You want to have at least one territory that isn't a border territory, so perhaps you should make IN-4 an insulated territory with IN-2 running down it's eastern border all the way to the ice. That way IN-2 could have the border with Australia, PA-5, and PA-3 if you decided to add that link.

Hmm... while I like the PA-3 to IN-2 link for reasons of geography, it leaves the Pacific with only one protected, non-border territory.

OC-1 - OC-3 connection is six of one, half a dozen of the other. A small linear region could be fun. I like the NA border change though - give Mexico access to both halves of the US.

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:01 am**

very well thought out post. thanks. I will have to consider all these things before coming to any conclusions.

Posted: **Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:12 pm**

ok so I can see the benefit of having a North Pacific to North Indian connection. What if we took Oak's idea (IN4 becomes a territory that touches only IN territories) and then IN2 borders OC3, PA5, AN4, and we add at IN2-PA1 connection. problem is this makes ANOTHER PA1 border.

does this make movement TOO easy in too many places?

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:03 pm**

edbeard wrote:What if we took Oak's idea (IN4 becomes a territory that touches only IN territories) and then IN2 borders OC3, PA5, AN4, and we add at IN2-PA1 connection. problem is this makes ANOTHER PA1 border.

Better to add a border to a territory that has to be defended than to give a border to an otherwise protected territory.

Posted: **Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:34 am**

When last I visited we were squabbling over adding one extra attack route. Either way the basic gameplay of this map is sound, and we're just waiting on Gimil to turn the gameplay changes into a new draft.

I'll get to see this map again as it passes to me later, so I'll have a chance to nitpick colors and legend clarity then. Now tell that lazy gimil to get to work!

Posted: **Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:13 am**

right on

Posted: **Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:17 pm**

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/LandandSea-4.png[/bigimg]

all gameplay changes are now shown on the map. here's a couple todo things

TO DO:

1. remove army circle from the MED on the playable map. Spacing will be horrendous there on the small map and we have the inset so we're using that for the MED armies.

2. attempt real names on the map. this will require also doing the small map since spacing will be more of an issue there

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:06 pm**

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/LandandSeaL-1.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/LandandSeaS-1.png[/bigimg]

names will not fit on this map (the small) unless we want everything to be super cramped or super ugly or use acronyms all over the place. gave it a shot. it didn't work.

In the XML, I'll do it so it says, NA2 (Western USA), SA2 (Brazil), etc

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:32 pm**

There is a nice clean look to this... Here's my thoughts, in no particular order...

1. The title/legend takes about 1/3 of the map area - it feels unnecessarily large, and makes the whole map feel a bit too cramped.

2. If you're going to use the letter codes for territory names, I would suggest at the very least trying to get the region names on the map - like oaktown did on Berlin.

3. I think that the wraparound at the edges is still quite confusing - While I know that PA1 borders PA2, that isn't clear, and the single explanatory line doesn;t really help either.

4. I know that the idea is to only be able to cross from land into sea at the intersections, but again, this isn't made clear from the map.

The last two points aren't really helped by the scripty font, which I have never found particularly legible. For the borders, you could have a thicker border along the coast, and either a dotted or thinner border along the intersections?

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:35 pm**

You're missing the Mediterranean army circle on the small map.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:48 pm**

MrBenn wrote:There is a nice clean look to this... Here's my thoughts, in no particular order...

1. The title/legend takes about 1/3 of the map area - it feels unnecessarily large, and makes the whole map feel a bit too cramped.
I diagree, it started much smaller but as me and ed went on improving it grew to be bigger, I can't really makeit smaller without taking the title out or making it alot smaller.

2. If you're going to use the letter codes for territory names, I would suggest at the very least trying to get the region names on the map - like oaktown did on Berlin.
We did try (by we I mean edbeard) to put proper names on the map but the small was going to be far to cramped. I don't think you need an example so see that this won't work.

3. I think that the wraparound at the edges is still quite confusing - While I know that PA1 borders PA2, that isn't clear, and the single explanatory line doesn;t really help either.
Only 5 territories do that, maybe edbeard could come up with a phrase that spells out those 5 terrs wrap around the map?

4. I know that the idea is to only be able to cross from land into sea at the intersections, but again, this isn't made clear from the map.

The last two points aren't really helped by the scripty font, which I have never found particularly legible. For the borders, you could have a thicker border along the coast, and either a dotted or thinner border along the intersections?

I could make the font in all capitals for the legends, that will increase the readbility. As for your suggestion on the thicker borders and dotted lines? Thats a difficult ask considering the way I have made the land shapes. They are vector shapes with layer styles on top. I can easily make the borders thicker, but I can't pick and choose where to add dotted lines on those borders. A better idea in my opinion would be to think of a better way to work that instruction in the legends.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:49 pm**

InkL0sed wrote:You're missing the Mediterranean army circle on the small map.

Actually it should only be in the legends that the med ahould have an army circles, so the one on the large map shouldn't be there.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:50 pm**

MrBenn wrote:There is a nice clean look to this... Here's my thoughts, in no particular order...

1. The title/legend takes about 1/3 of the map area - it feels unnecessarily large, and makes the whole map feel a bit too cramped.
I don't think there's anything we can do about this

2. If you're going to use the letter codes for territory names, I would suggest at the very least trying to get the region names on the map - like oaktown did on Berlin.
as I said in my last post, I did try but it didn't work out

3. I think that the wraparound at the edges is still quite confusing - While I know that PA1 borders PA2, that isn't clear, and the single explanatory line doesn;t really help either.
How about changing the font like you said and putting the name of the territory on both sections?

4. I know that the idea is to only be able to cross from land into sea at the intersections, but again, this isn't made clear from the map.
We'll change the font but I'm not sure anything more is needed. I'll leave this up to gimil though. It's like seeing a sign that says "No parking on Sundays." The arrows going from Land-To-Sea make the idea clear. And, the note says, "Land and Sea territories are only connected by arrows." I challenge you to find words that are as succinct and as clear as those. Perhaps you just meant the script font hides the note too much

The last two points aren't really helped by the scripty font, which I have never found particularly legible. For the borders, you could have a thicker border along the coast, and either a dotted or thinner border along the intersections?

Inklosed, It is not missing. It is on the inset in the legend. I forgot to remind gimil to remove it from the map area on the large map which is probably part of the source of your confusion. I thought it'd be too busy to have it in that area on the small map. I think if you look at that area on the small map you'll agree.

When army numbers show up on the map, it'll become more noticeable. When players look at the map and see that area and see that on the legend they'll know what is up. Unless they skim over it but this is something we cannot control. The lined area of the Mediterranean calls attention that this is not a normal area of the map. We've used visual cues and words to explain the situation. I think that's enough. I am not saying that we have the right font for the text yet and also I think tinkering with the visual cues is possible if people have suggestions for that.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:56 pm**

another thing about the legend...I've said this a couple times before (well at least once) and this is more apt for the suggestions part of the forum but oh well...

people complain about map size. 840x800 or 630x600 is not big enough

If there was a separate area available for legends then this could help people in multiple ways. It'd prevent the "man this legend is way too big talk". It could allow people who know the map to collapse it with a script or possibly a site function. It could lessen the size of some maps. Most importantly to some, it could allow people to have larger maps without increasing the map size.

The question is how big would that area be allowed to be?

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:11 pm**

OK lets try these:

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/LandandSeaL-2.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/LandandSeaS-2.png[/bigimg]

-Capitalised everything in lower case, in my opinion its much better than changing the font.
-Put terr names on both halfs of split terrs

TODO:
-Remove that little army circles from the med on large.
-Try and better center the med sea in its legends box.
-Fix the mess I made on the large oceania.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:16 pm**

PA5 missing on the large

move the AN1 line to the left so it's not squeezed in (just put it so that peninsula is part of AN1). Also make the line not look crappy like it does right now

other than that I think it's much better.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:19 pm**

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/LandandSeaL-3.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/LandandSeaS-3.png[/bigimg]

-Fixed oceania on large
-took out circle in the med on large

TODO:
-center the med sea in the legends.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:54 pm**

Misspellings:
"Artic" should be "Arctic"
"Antartic" should be "Antarctica"
"Mediterrainian" should be "Mediterranean"

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:11 pm**

Incandenza wrote:Misspellings:
"Artic" should be "Arctic"
"Antartic" should be "Antarctica"
"Mediterrainian" should be "Mediterranean"

yes. I overlooked this. I forgot who I was working with...

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:39 pm**

edbeard wrote:
Incandenza wrote:Misspellings:
"Artic" should be "Arctic"
"Antartic" should be "Antarctica"
"Mediterrainian" should be "Mediterranean"

yes. I overlooked this. I forgot who I was working with...

Don't get cocky

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:46 pm**

oh. just saw that the mini-map is missing the tiny tiny bit of Eurasia on the top left.

sooo

1. mini-map Eurasia
2. move/redraw the AN4-An1 border
3. PA5 on the large map
4. center Med Sea on the legend
5. Antarctic, Arctic, Mediterranean

I think that's it

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:50 pm**

I will do that entire list when I wake up tomorrow. We will be on forge lane in no time.

Posted: **Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:37 am**

Is it me or are the bottom arrow heads on the following list a bit off centre on both maps?

EU8 <> PA1
OC3 <> IN2
IN2 <> AN4
AN2 <> AT6

My other concern is that AR2 & AN2 border each other (remember that from Feudal Gimil?)

C.

Posted: **Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:57 am**

I think the difference here it says AR2 vs AT2 ON THE MAP

also in the drop down it'll say like AT2 (North Atlantic) vs AR2 (Greenland Sea) or something

Posted: **Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:56 am**

edbeard wrote:I think the difference here it says AR2 vs AT2 ON THE MAP

also in the drop down it'll say like AT2 (North Atlantic) vs AR2 (Greenland Sea) or something

Maybe - could be just easy swapping AT1 with AT2 though?

C.

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