American gun culture

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KoolBak
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Re: American gun culture

Post by KoolBak »

This is fun :D

Recommendation #1: Don't call my brother Dawg a liar....it makes him upset.

Although in my 40 years of RESPONSIBLE gun ownership I have never (thankfully) had to use a weapon in self defense, I HAVE had them out and ready on 4 or so occasions...it was terrifying. All out camping in the middle of nowhere when groups of (assumedly) meth heads / cranksters would roll into our spot in the early AM, partying and making lots of unpleasant noise. They would be surprised to learn the there were at least 6 weapons trained on them.......luckily it never came to that - but I have read of many altercations up in those areas over the years that involved shootings.......scary. I have seen these idiots in the daytime shooting recreationally with little to no common sense / safety....I have approached two groups of them and had words.....I will NOT Have my kids threatened.

Continue, gentlemen ;o)
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Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by DiM »

in my country guns are tightly regulated and if you didn't do military service you'll probably never feel the grip of a gun in your entire life.
and guess what? people still kill each other daily with knives axes pitchforks bats rocks or whatever they can get their hands on. people are violent animals especially in some conditions (alcohol, drugs, poverty, etc). point is, guns or no guns people will still kill people and the real criminals will always have access to guns. so there's just 2 options in my opinion:

1. no guns at all
2. free bazookas for everybody. :)
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Re: American gun culture

Post by PLAYER57832 »

DiM wrote:2. free bazookas for everybody. :)

I like this one. ;)
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Dukasaur »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
DiM wrote:2. free bazookas for everybody. :)

I like this one. ;)

sure in that instance. Broken clocks come to mind.
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.”
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:... but it sure seems like you think carrying a gun is dumb and just leads to more problems, which dare I say means you either do not support citizens bearing arms or you think that bearing arms is dumb.


You're way off, so let me explain.

Carrying a gun isn't always dumb because it depends on the situation and the operator.

I've no problems with self-defense and the current gun ownership laws, but I do have problems with people who fantasize about killing someone--which is totally different from someone who exercises situational awareness and plans for potential threats.

The difference between Mr. Situational Awareness and most of the fantastic yahoo's with their freedom pistols is that the former is much more practical and safer, while the latter tends to be an idiot with a loaded gun.


Okay, well I don't know where a legal gun owner fantasizing about killing someone comes from (besides Symm), but I think that the assertion the fantasy exists or is prevalent is ridiculous. The fantasy occurring with someone who has a gun illegally and plans to use it illegally, far less ridiculous.

Someone who uses a gun for defense does not fantasize, someone who uses a gun for offense probably does, and even at that point I would call it a plan, or pre-meditation, not a fantasy lol.


I can't read people's minds, but I'm surprised you can!
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Phatscotty
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:... but it sure seems like you think carrying a gun is dumb and just leads to more problems, which dare I say means you either do not support citizens bearing arms or you think that bearing arms is dumb.


You're way off, so let me explain.

Carrying a gun isn't always dumb because it depends on the situation and the operator.

I've no problems with self-defense and the current gun ownership laws, but I do have problems with people who fantasize about killing someone--which is totally different from someone who exercises situational awareness and plans for potential threats.

The difference between Mr. Situational Awareness and most of the fantastic yahoo's with their freedom pistols is that the former is much more practical and safer, while the latter tends to be an idiot with a loaded gun.


Okay, well I don't know where a legal gun owner fantasizing about killing someone comes from (besides Symm), but I think that the assertion the fantasy exists or is prevalent is ridiculous. The fantasy occurring with someone who has a gun illegally and plans to use it illegally, far less ridiculous.

Someone who uses a gun for defense does not fantasize, someone who uses a gun for offense probably does, and even at that point I would call it a plan, or pre-meditation, not a fantasy lol.


I can't read people's minds, but I'm surprised you can!


I have heard rap music before....where fantasies are published and distributed
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Night Strike »

PLAYER57832 wrote: Sure, I heard the story of the lady in Texas who wished she had her gun in her purse instead of her car, but that is part of the point. You are never going to have a gun with you at all times. If you rely on your gun for your protection, then the minute you put it down, it fails. Better to rely on other methods from the start.


So because guns don't stop every crime, it's ok to outlaw them? Because that's what you appeal to in your arguments. People should try to look for other solutions to stopping a crime, but criminals aren't always the most rational people to begin with. By the way, which is easier: training a person in crime-scene negotiations to step-down an assailant, or training a person to use a gun to defend themselves if the time arises. The 2nd is MUCH easier and much more useful.

Every time people argue against guns, they assume that the attacker is directly facing the victim and that the victim would then have to draw his gun and shoot. That's not always the case. You could be out of someone's vision, or around a corner, or some other arrangement that would allow you to protect yourself.


So, why don't we take away people's right to a trial by jury? Or their right to vote? Or their right to speak? Does everyone deserve a jury? Do people who vote the wrong way deserve to keep voting? Do people who say the wrong things deserve to keep speaking? In ALL of these instances, the answer would be "Yes, they must keep their rights". Yet when it comes to guns, it's not the criminals who should lose access to their guns but the normal, law-abiding citizens who should lose their rights. And yet people think that's perfectly acceptable? No wonder why our rights are in such jeopardy.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:... but it sure seems like you think carrying a gun is dumb and just leads to more problems, which dare I say means you either do not support citizens bearing arms or you think that bearing arms is dumb.


You're way off, so let me explain.

Carrying a gun isn't always dumb because it depends on the situation and the operator.

I've no problems with self-defense and the current gun ownership laws, but I do have problems with people who fantasize about killing someone--which is totally different from someone who exercises situational awareness and plans for potential threats.

The difference between Mr. Situational Awareness and most of the fantastic yahoo's with their freedom pistols is that the former is much more practical and safer, while the latter tends to be an idiot with a loaded gun.


Okay, well I don't know where a legal gun owner fantasizing about killing someone comes from (besides Symm), but I think that the assertion the fantasy exists or is prevalent is ridiculous. The fantasy occurring with someone who has a gun illegally and plans to use it illegally, far less ridiculous.

Someone who uses a gun for defense does not fantasize, someone who uses a gun for offense probably does, and even at that point I would call it a plan, or pre-meditation, not a fantasy lol.


I can't read people's minds, but I'm surprised you can!


I have heard rap music before....where fantasies are published and distributed


Have other forms of music in no way have ever published and distributed fantasies of committing violent acts on someone else?
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Re: American gun culture

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote: Sure, I heard the story of the lady in Texas who wished she had her gun in her purse instead of her car, but that is part of the point. You are never going to have a gun with you at all times. If you rely on your gun for your protection, then the minute you put it down, it fails. Better to rely on other methods from the start.


So because guns don't stop every crime, it's ok to outlaw them? Because that's what you appeal to in your arguments.
You have never heard/seen any post where I said guns should be outlawed. It is, however folks like you who insist that any criticism at all of guns means instant outlawing of all guns that prevent a lot of honest and NEEDED discussion.

Night Strike wrote:People should try to look for other solutions to stopping a crime, but criminals aren't always the most rational people to begin with. By the way, which is easier: training a person in crime-scene negotiations to step-down an assailant, or training a person to use a gun to defend themselves if the time arises. The 2nd is MUCH easier and much more useful.

No, a better method is to just teach people not to get into those situations in the first place, which is usually far more possible than either of the above. By the time you get to the above scenario, pulling out a gun is usually the worst option anyway.

And, no it is not harder to teach someone to listen and talk than to shoot. Most people have daily experience talking to others.


Night Strike wrote:So, why don't we take away people's right to a trial by jury? Or their right to vote? Or their right to speak? Does everyone deserve a jury? Do people who vote the wrong way deserve to keep voting? Do people who say the wrong things deserve to keep speaking? In ALL of these instances, the answer would be "Yes, they must keep their rights". Yet when it comes to guns, it's not the criminals who should lose access to their guns but the normal, law-abiding citizens who should lose their rights. And yet people think that's perfectly acceptable? No wonder why our rights are in such jeopardy.

I have no idea to whom these comments are intended, but it has nothing to do with anything I have said.. at all.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
You're way off, so let me explain.

Carrying a gun isn't always dumb because it depends on the situation and the operator.

I've no problems with self-defense and the current gun ownership laws, but I do have problems with people who fantasize about killing someone--which is totally different from someone who exercises situational awareness and plans for potential threats.

The difference between Mr. Situational Awareness and most of the fantastic yahoo's with their freedom pistols is that the former is much more practical and safer, while the latter tends to be an idiot with a loaded gun.


Okay, well I don't know where a legal gun owner fantasizing about killing someone comes from (besides Symm), but I think that the assertion the fantasy exists or is prevalent is ridiculous. The fantasy occurring with someone who has a gun illegally and plans to use it illegally, far less ridiculous.

Someone who uses a gun for defense does not fantasize, someone who uses a gun for offense probably does, and even at that point I would call it a plan, or pre-meditation, not a fantasy lol.


I can't read people's minds, but I'm surprised you can!


I have heard rap music before....where fantasies are published and distributed


Have other forms of music in no way have ever published and distributed fantasies of committing violent acts on someone else?


Of course. However, I just started with the one that openly glorifies "pumpin slugs in fools for lookin at me funny" and "poppin caps in asses just for fun" and how "we don't give a F" I better add that I meant gangsta rap.

Sorry Will Smith!
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Okay, well I don't know where a legal gun owner fantasizing about killing someone comes from (besides Symm), but I think that the assertion the fantasy exists or is prevalent is ridiculous. The fantasy occurring with someone who has a gun illegally and plans to use it illegally, far less ridiculous.

Someone who uses a gun for defense does not fantasize, someone who uses a gun for offense probably does, and even at that point I would call it a plan, or pre-meditation, not a fantasy lol.


I can't read people's minds, but I'm surprised you can!


I have heard rap music before....where fantasies are published and distributed


Have other forms of music in no way have ever published and distributed fantasies of committing violent acts on someone else?


Of course. However, I just started with the one that openly glorifies "pumpin slugs in fools for lookin at me funny" and "poppin caps in asses just for fun" and how "we don't give a F" I better add that I meant gangsta rap.

Sorry Will Smith!


So why did you highlight one form of music while you were aware that other forms of music can do the same thing?
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Night Strike »

PLAYER57832 wrote:It is, however folks like you who insist that any criticism at all of guns means instant outlawing of all guns that prevent a lot of honest and NEEDED discussion.


Then what discussions need to take place? The fact that the government needs to stop handing guns to drug dealers and other criminals? The fact that the government needs to stop trying to punish those who have never even committed a crime? The fact that where guns are outlawed, the criminals still carry guns while the law-abiding citizens are the only ones who don't?

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:So, why don't we take away people's right to a trial by jury? Or their right to vote? Or their right to speak? Does everyone deserve a jury? Do people who vote the wrong way deserve to keep voting? Do people who say the wrong things deserve to keep speaking? In ALL of these instances, the answer would be "Yes, they must keep their rights". Yet when it comes to guns, it's not the criminals who should lose access to their guns but the normal, law-abiding citizens who should lose their rights. And yet people think that's perfectly acceptable? No wonder why our rights are in such jeopardy.

I have no idea to whom these comments are intended, but it has nothing to do with anything I have said.. at all.


They were directed to the general topic and people opposed to guns.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:It is, however folks like you who insist that any criticism at all of guns means instant outlawing of all guns that prevent a lot of honest and NEEDED discussion.


Then what discussions need to take place? The fact that the government needs to stop handing guns to drug dealers and other criminals? The fact that the government needs to stop trying to punish those who have never even committed a crime? The fact that where guns are outlawed, the criminals still carry guns while the law-abiding citizens are the only ones who don't?
Explain how these things are happening. But no, you are again just making a bunch of "anyone having anything negative to say is just anti-gun" assumptions.
"]
Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:So, why don't we take away people's right to a trial by jury? Or their right to vote? Or their right to speak? Does everyone deserve a jury? Do people who vote the wrong way deserve to keep voting? Do people who say the wrong things deserve to keep speaking? In ALL of these instances, the answer would be "Yes, they must keep their rights". Yet when it comes to guns, it's not the criminals who should lose access to their guns but the normal, law-abiding citizens who should lose their rights. And yet people think that's perfectly acceptable? No wonder why our rights are in such jeopardy.

I have no idea to whom these comments are intended, but it has nothing to do with anything I have said.. at all.


They were directed to the general topic and people opposed to guns.

They have nothing to do with guns. Further, that whole topic was purely in your imagination, particularly when addressed to me.

There is a giant leap from saying that carrying a gun is not the panacea to safety and saying that guns should not exist. :roll:

Like I said, making those stupid assertions and leaps is precisely WHY folks ARE becoming ant-gun. When the only "discussion" is as sensible as to "oh, you don't want all guns painted pink... then you must obviously be anti-gun!", then people without a real inherent like of guns tend to say "screw you .... we don't need more like you in the US!".
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

bearing arms, trial by jury, voting, free speech....those are our inalienable rights.

People who try to take away our ability to protect ourselves and our families are people trying to take away our rights.

again

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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
I can't read people's minds, but I'm surprised you can!


I have heard rap music before....where fantasies are published and distributed


Have other forms of music in no way have ever published and distributed fantasies of committing violent acts on someone else?


Of course. However, I just started with the one that openly glorifies "pumpin slugs in fools for lookin at me funny" and "poppin caps in asses just for fun" and how "we don't give a F" I better add that I meant gangsta rap.

Sorry Will Smith!


So why did you highlight one form of music while you were aware that other forms of music can do the same thing?


Thanks for not responding.

Based on your awareness of the implications of your statement, a strong case can be made that you are trolling.

If anyone dislikes you enough, they can file a report, and should feel free to use this as evidence. I don't care to do so, but I like pointing out the obvious.


In short, troll harder, PHatscotty.


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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
I have heard rap music before....where fantasies are published and distributed


Have other forms of music in no way have ever published and distributed fantasies of committing violent acts on someone else?


Of course. However, I just started with the one that openly glorifies "pumpin slugs in fools for lookin at me funny" and "poppin caps in asses just for fun" and how "we don't give a F" I better add that I meant gangsta rap.

Sorry Will Smith!


So why did you highlight one form of music while you were aware that other forms of music can do the same thing?


Thanks for not responding.


I responded. You trying to ban me for not answering your question to your liking in a timely fashion of under 1 hour?

Also, funny of you to ask for that in a double post.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Johnny Cash's "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" doesn't equal "openly glorifies hurting people"?

Surely, you're bright enough to know that other types of music do "openly glorify" killing people.

Or maybe you're blinded by your own prejudice.

The later option could explain your allegedly weak trolling.


_______________________


So, we're down to (1) "Phatscotty is an obvious troll" or (2) "Phatscotty sometimes acts like a close-minded, prejudiced ass."
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:Johnny Cash's "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" doesn't equal "openly glorifies hurting people"?

Surely, you're bright enough to know that other types of music do "openly glorify" killing people.

Or maybe you're blinded by your own prejudice.

The later option could explain your allegedly weak trolling.


You have brought this so far off topic, and your insults are not appreciated.

I submitted twice already there are other kinds of music that openly glorify killing people. If you can't accept my admission and continue to pretend I did not make the admission, then there really is no point continuing the conversation with you.

Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet. Trolling is trying to get a rise out of someone. Forcing them to respond to you, either through wise-crackery, posting incorrect information, asking blatantly stupid questions, or other foolishness.


Who's antagonizing who?
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Johnny Cash's "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" doesn't equal "openly glorifies hurting people"?

Surely, you're bright enough to know that other types of music do "openly glorify" killing people.

Or maybe you're blinded by your own prejudice.

The later option could explain your allegedly weak trolling.


You have brought this so far off topic, and your insults are not appreciated.

I submitted twice already there are other kinds of music that openly glorify killing people. If you can't accept my admission and continue to pretend I did not make the admission, then there really is no point continuing the conversation with you.

Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet. Trolling is trying to get a rise out of someone. Forcing them to respond to you, either through wise-crackery, posting incorrect information, asking blatantly stupid questions, or other foolishness.


Who's antagonizing who?


Yeah, your actions can fit with that definition, but that's not my job here, Phatscot.

The process of removing your prejudice must start with you. I can only edge you toward the correct path, but I can no longer help you achieve the self-awareness required to follow it.

Good luck, Phatscotty.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Aradhus »

Only one way to settle this dispute. BBS and Scotty, I propose a duel. Pistols at dawn, aiight.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by HapSmo19 »

BigBallinStalin wrote:Johnny Cash's "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" doesn't equal "openly glorifies hurting people"?


No. The song is called "Folsom Prison Blues".

Let's take a moment to look at the rest of the lyrics:

I hear the train a comin'
It's rolling round the bend
And I ain't seen the sunshine since I don't know when,
I'm stuck in Folsom prison, and time keeps draggin' on
But that train keeps a rollin' on down to San Antone..
When I was just a baby my mama told me. Son,
Always be a good boy, don't ever play with guns.
But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die
When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry..

Soooey!

I bet there's rich folks eating from a fancy dining car
They're probably drinkin' coffee and smoking big cigars.
Well I know I had it coming, I know I can't be free
But those people keep a movin'
And that's what tortures me...

Well if they freed me from this prison,
If that railroad train was mine
I bet I'd move it on a little farther down the line
Far from Folsom prison, that's where I want to stay
And I'd let that lonesome whistle blow my blues away.....


Not sure what you consider "glorifying" but that doesn't sound like a WIN to me. More like a cautionary tale.

And a 50+ year old folkish-country song is the best you could come up with? :lol:

Who's the weak troll here?
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Woodruff »

BigBallinStalin wrote:In short, troll harder, Phatscotty.


Is that POSSIBLE?
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Woodruff »

Woodruff wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Now, would you care to respond to the actual points that I've made...?


You made actual points?


Someday, you might get moved into the class where they actually think about what they read, then you can join us in recognizing actual points.


OK. So help me out here...

Boil your points down to where I can understand them cuz they seem more like insult-laden opinion to me. Thanks.


Of course opinion is involved...it's unavoidable on this subject. And yes, there's a fair number of insults regarding Phatscotty...my complete lack of respect for him leads me to believe that's what he deserves...but those insults don't in any way alter the points I was making. As for my points, it would help if you'd TRY to actually read them (it's not difficult, as I do use English), but here goes:

First post: I strongly support the Second Amendment and I do believe it is important. That being said, the idea that "having a holstered gun at your side" is somehow going to make you any more safe is a fallacy. If anything, you are presenting yourself as a target for more aggressive initial force, much more likely to end your life. Even if someone has a knife to your throat, you're more likely to extract yourself though martial arts techniques than you are by reaching for your gun. At that point, actual skill with your gun is really irrelevant.

Next post: In response to Phatscotty's statement that "if you don't want a gun, then hire security to follow you around 24/7", I pointed out that you would do yourself a lot more good by simply being aware of your surroundings to avoid trouble in the first place, rather than having to extract yourself from that trouble after the fact.

Next post: I stated that having found yourself in the situation of being mugged, your chances of survival are drastically higher by simply handing over your wallet rather than risk your life trying to keep it. Not the happiest alternative, certainly...but I don't tend to have so much of value in my wallet that it outweighs how much I value my life.

Next post: I pointed out that the statement you were attempting to use as a comparison to mine was completely inaccurate.

Next post: I responded to Phatscotty's attempt at portraying me as some sort of a pussy by pointing out that I undoubtedly understand more about how to handle oneself in a dangerous situation than he does, thanks to the training I've received.

Next post: I express regret that Phatscotty doesn't value his life more than the contents of his wallet.

Next post: I point out that Phatscotty goes to great lengths to ignore and obfuscate perfectly valid points against his statements. I also point out that he appears to have the innate intelligence of a plant.

Next post: I call Phatscotty a hypocrite.

Next post: I point out that Phatscotty's attempt to hide the escalation of violence in regard to someone making the attempt to protect themselves by pulling out a gun doesn't even make basic sense. I also point to his anecdotal evidence as anecdotal evidence and re-iterate that he seems to believe his life is not worth more than the contents of his wallet at that given time. I also tell you to start using a bit of reading comprehension skills, because I know you must have them in the deep, dark recesses of your capabilities, if you'd only try just a little bit.

This final post: I treat you like the child you seem to want to be by walking you through a very simple reading lesson.


So HapSmo, is your lack of response the proof that you were simply trolling? As I said, someday you might get moved into the class where they actually think about what they read, then you can join us in recognizing actual points.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by PLAYER57832 »

HapSmo19 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Johnny Cash's "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" doesn't equal "openly glorifies hurting people"?


No, but other country songs do. What does it matter, though?
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HapSmo19
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Re: American gun culture

Post by HapSmo19 »

Woodruff wrote:So HapSmo, is your lack of response the proof that you were simply trolling?


No. I simply re-read your opinions. Noted. Thanks.
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