Conquer Club

Well i want to understand why new formed clan who quite easy lost first chalenge(not finish yet score its Time vs T4C 21-9), want to play second chalenge against TOFY,for me its look more like training,then real chalenge, because they say in hes topic,these:
"This will be a friendly clan where games are played with each other and all players get along (or tolerate whichever is closer) each other.

-It will be a competitive clan obviously with small battles to start with but after that, The World is our Crossbow "
Now if they want to be something in clans, i belive that need to play with low ranked clans, and not with High Ranked clans,and these is not small battle, and frankly i belive that these will be more massacre then real battle. And these is also bad for player morale, can cause colapse of clan. But again,its all in jpcloet hand, he will find mechanism to find real solution for these issue.

TIME is newly formed too... well, I don't know how you measure new or not... but TIME was founded in August I think

Let me preface this by saying I'm no medal farmer; if you look at my medals, you'll see no speed, freestyle or nuclear on my list yet since I only join the games, tournaments and challenges which interest me.

I disagree with the whole idea that clans will farm medals though. There are certainly individuals who collect medals, but any collective clan decision will revolve around seeking to show that the clan can beat those 'perceived' as stronger, or offering that opportunity to others when challenged themselves.

To win medals I could set myself a chunk of games on freestyle, manual, speed, assassin, fog against privates and sergeants and fairly quickly reel in 5 medals for 20 wins, which wouldn't be removed from me under 'farming' rules even though it could be perceived that as a major at the moment, I will win most of the games.

Likewise I could form a decent quads team on Oasis and wait for disparate groups of players to show up, I would get medals for this as we racked up wins, and by making it foggy, manual would reap yet more. I can set up a 16-man, 3 round, doodle earth tourney and get a medal. I can win one game during whac-a-mod and get a medal.

BUT two clans can set up 50-game challenge which attracts a 20-page thread of decent banter, the clans need to put together all the organisation around it - working out which maps and settings to use, who to field, sorting the timetable, organising invites, etc, etc. and they are declined the medal if it is perceived beforehand that one of them will win "too easily".

This seems inconsistent to me.

Sure, TOFU are winning against T4C as many predicted, but they are no bunch of cooks. They have a fair few majors and other officers in their ranks and plenty of players who contribute much to this site. I find it very odd that a competition against a good bunch of players can be dismissed offhand as not worthy of a medal, when they can be obtained easily by beating a few cooks on the right settings.

Anyone find it interesting that CC2 doesn't provide medals for wins, but the NCC does. Are we to assume the NCC is the more serious tournament , or is there something we are missing here?

sonicsteve wrote:Let me preface this by saying I'm no medal farmer; if you look at my medals, you'll see no speed, freestyle or nuclear on my list yet since I only join the games, tournaments and challenges which interest me.

I disagree with the whole idea that clans will farm medals though. There are certainly individuals who collect medals, but any collective clan decision will revolve around seeking to show that the clan can beat those 'perceived' as stronger, or offering that opportunity to others when challenged themselves.

To win medals I could set myself a chunk of games on freestyle, manual, speed, assassin, fog against privates and sergeants and fairly quickly reel in 5 medals for 20 wins, which wouldn't be removed from me under 'farming' rules even though it could be perceived that as a major at the moment, I will win most of the games.

Likewise I could form a decent quads team on Oasis and wait for disparate groups of players to show up, I would get medals for this as we racked up wins, and by making it foggy, manual would reap yet more. I can set up a 16-man, 3 round, doodle earth tourney and get a medal. I can win one game during whac-a-mod and get a medal.

BUT two clans can set up 50-game challenge which attracts a 20-page thread of decent banter, the clans need to put together all the organisation around it - working out which maps and settings to use, who to field, sorting the timetable, organising invites, etc, etc. and they are declined the medal if it is perceived beforehand that one of them will win "too easily".

This seems inconsistent to me.

Sure, TOFU are winning against T4C as many predicted, but they are no bunch of cooks. They have a fair few majors and other officers in their ranks and plenty of players who contribute much to this site. I find it very odd that a competition against a good bunch of players can be dismissed offhand as not worthy of a medal, when they can be obtained easily by beating a few cooks on the right settings.

I agree with sonicsteve!
some medals can be earned very easy and sometimes you need to put in a lot of time and effort and then a medal isn't worth it?

What i mean is, no offense btw,
Is this thread supposed to be funny ? A joke or something ?

Maybe Barcelona should not be given 3 points for their wins this season for the games they played against Malaga, La Coruna and many more for the perception rule.

If a clan war, because of a clan A and B are not in equal power, then not going to be awarded by a medal just because so-called medal farming worries, then i would like to give a list of other medal farming forms, expecting what sort of actions going to be around to prevent these new medal farmings...

• Tournament Contribution:A Huge Tournament (such as TLO) vs A very tiny one (16 players bricket tourney) ... unbalanced efforts put in each when compared. One should be evaluated as a medal farming case.
• Map Contribution Medal:Doodle Earth and First Nations of America, unbalanced effort put in each...So doodle earth should not be awarded with a medal.
• Tournament Achievement Medal: Some tournaments are easy to win, as a very low in numbers of players is in. Short ones. Such tournament winners should not get a medal, kind of farming due to perception rule.
• Ratings Achievement Medal: I really farmed that medal myself. Was leaving ratings to all opponents i have played in the very first times of my cc career, no matter if ever i got any idea of the player or not.
• All Dubs, Trips, Quads Medals: Only should be awarded to those players in teams who won their games against equal power teams. For the equaliterian win cases. Otherwise this is a medal farm too due to perception rule.

Steve above mentioned a few more cases to sit there to be examples as well.
No offense but, how just can you decide a challenge to deserve a medal or not ? If you really have such an ability, then i am really like to down on my knees to show my admire and respect to your capability of foreseen and abilities.

Mate, , have another suggestion to make, yes better to place this suggestion in suggestion section but, i am really lazy for that...So because we have got topic here, then i ll put it in here...

Instead of cutting down medals based on a rule you have got in your hand, which is unclear to me, why dont you set a threshold for any clan war...
Assume, clan A is a strong one, and clan B is relatively weak one...Then, in order to eleminate the so called farming thing, why dont you set a bareer/a threshold such as lets assume a 40 games clan challenge, as in the example, say if strong one clan A wins, they will need to win this by a margin of 10 games. Otherwise clan B wins the medal. And this number of 10 margin is not a constant value for sure, it is floating one based on how strong and how weak 2 facing clans are...Yea, i know just in case it doesnt look a good idea because it imposes giving medals to a clan even though a clan loses a challenge, but believe me better than cutting medals down just for some farming no sense.

I'd would make a special medal for official challenges like conquerer cup and newcomers cup, with an extra special medal for CL since it is the toughest and most important. in addition to the current clan medal to be awarded for normal clan war regardless of the ladder and clan seeds.

but unfortunately, I'm not in charge.

vote me for president and I'd do it

DJ Teflon wrote:Anyone find it interesting that CC2 doesn't provide medals for wins, but the NCC does. Are we to assume the NCC is the more serious tournament , or is there something we are missing here?

The CCup is a hybrid event but neither a tournament or a clan war. At the outset, I was concerned about 1 vs 32 amongst others being "farming". So the current arrangement with the CTO (Clan Tournament Organizer) was that the clans winning to get into the final 8 would get medals. However, as I continue to update policies behind the scene, the intention is to historically go back once I remove the term "farming". The update is actually quite massive.

Genoke wrote:some medals can be earned very easy and sometimes you need to put in a lot of time and effort and then a medal isn't worth it?

Agreed plus a free market system would mean most clans would ensure that they both have a chance of winning in the war. Part of the challenge with CCup is that you don't get to choose, and have only a modest input into the settings at best.

HardAttack wrote:Maybe Barcelona should not be given 3 points for their wins this season for the games they played against Malaga, La Coruna and many more for the perception rule.

You are making an assumption about clans being in the same league. You analogy is not quite right, I'm sure there is a better one out there, but trust me I get the point.

I trust you mate, just liked to let you see my concerns
Ty for priceless efforts you are putting around.

I have to say I thought this was an excellent analogy and very well written by HA.

Tournament Contribution:A Huge Tournament (such as TLO) vs A very tiny one (16 players bricket tourney) ... unbalanced efforts put in each when compared. One should be evaluated as a medal farming case.
Map Contribution Medal:Doodle Earth and First Nations of America, unbalanced effort put in each...So doodle earth should not be awarded with a medal.
Tournament Achievement Medal: Some tournaments are easy to win, as a very low in numbers of players is in. Short ones. Such tournament winners should not get a medal, kind of farming due to perception rule.
Ratings Achievement Medal: I really farmed that medal myself. Was leaving ratings to all opponents i have played in the very first times of my cc career, no matter if ever i got any idea of the player or not.
All Dubs, Trips, Quads Medals: Only should be awarded to those players in teams who won their games against equal power teams. For the equaliterian win cases. Otherwise this is a medal farm too due to perception rule.

Indeed some medals are ridiculously easy to obtain and are not worth the pixels they're made of. I do believe all challenges should be deserving of a medal however. With minimum game quotas and player contributions (i.e. a clan member must play at least 3 games and win one of them in a 41 game challenge to be entitled to a medal) which are now in place, the practice of farming weak clans is no longer as prevalent or as attractive as it once might have been. All challenges, regardless of the opposition, require a lot of time, effort and coordination - and of course, above all else, skill at playing the game. Why shouldn't the better players/teams/clans be rewarded for proving their ability above any other?

Agree too that the C.Cup is not in the same realms as a tourney per se, as what it really is is a framework in which challenges are undertaken. It was a clever concept and has proven to be very popular and has brought clans together to battle when in all likelihood they might never have met. So medals for challenge winners yes. A tourney medal for C.Cup winners no.

jpcloet wrote:Part of the challenge with CCup is that you don't get to choose, and have only a modest input into the settings at best.

The only thing you do not choose is the number of games for the round and the opponent. Doesn't fit into modest definition.

Dako wrote:

jpcloet wrote:Part of the challenge with CCup is that you don't get to choose, and have only a modest input into the settings at best.

The only thing you do not choose is the number of games for the round and the opponent. Doesn't fit into modest definition.

Those are the main 2, however, prior to the CCup I asked Chuuuuck if we could change

the number of games, the player limits, the types of games etc., the timing etc. and the answer was no

The CCup is closer to a tournament than a war in terms of elements, however, the effort is more like a war.

To me, war means one clan facing the other. Settings, rules, maps, players, timing - doesn't matter. The fact they re playing one another is what I call a war. So for me, each round of CCup is a war. And I think it was not a geaet move to call CCup not a clan war tournament.

Dako wrote:To me, war means one clan facing the other. Settings, rules, maps, players, timing - doesn't matter. The fact they re playing one another is what I call a war. So for me, each round of CCup is a war. And I think it was not a geaet move to call CCup not a clan war tournament.

In a full agreement what Dan is speaking of here...

Also the red highlighted line you have got there my dear Jpcloet,

jpcloet wrote:

Dako wrote:

jpcloet wrote:Part of the challenge with CCup is that you don't get to choose, and have only a modest input into the settings at best.

The only thing you do not choose is the number of games for the round and the opponent. Doesn't fit into modest definition.

Those are the main 2, however, prior to the CCup I asked Chuuuuck if we could change

the number of games, the player limits, the types of games etc., the timing etc. and the answer was no

The CCup is closer to a tournament than a war in terms of elements, however, the effort is more like a war.

really needs for some votings...
we are all democratic society, or arent we ?
just give a listen what those votes are gonna say.

you also agree to these settings when you join this tournament/cup...therefore these are the terms of the challenge in which you agree to....no one forced you to play

I d like to see this cc2 cup as a composition of a package of extensive collection of clan wars with all of them are 41 games rather than a tourney.
Cos, looking at the history, i have never seen a tourney to which almost all clan members involved in, but yes i had seen many clan wars with 40+ games which looked like very similar in set-up, i mean %100 match. So, what i dont understand is, if it is because it has got a schedule ? It has got a form for how things are going to proceed ? Or what else is it which makes you uncertain about if this one is a tourney or a extensive clan wars collection ?
I am really keen to get the idea pls.

In every bracket style competition that I can think of, only the winners of the whole shebang get winners medals. No one gets medals for winning their first round tie.

Gypsys Kiss wrote:In every bracket style competition that I can think of, only the winners of the whole shebang get winners medals. No one gets medals for winning their first round tie.

But they do not award the same trophy for the friendly matches (read normal clan wars) either. So this comparison is not correct.

Medals should be issued for clans not players.

Dako wrote:

Gypsys Kiss wrote:In every bracket style competition that I can think of, only the winners of the whole shebang get winners medals. No one gets medals for winning their first round tie.

But they do not award the same trophy for the friendly matches (read normal clan wars) either. So this comparison is not correct.

True, but these are not friendly matches in the true sense of the word. It is (very loosely) a league, where every clan wants to be higher up the table, it doesn't matter how you work the table out, it's still a table and therefore a league. Normally you would be awarded points when you beat your opponents, but here we get a medal instead. CC2 is different because it is a cup not a league and nothing is awarded until you win the cup.

Friendly matches are only friendly when they have no bearing whatsoever on either the table or the cup. So the comparison is correct.

(I don't know where you took league word for CCup so I will ignore those sentences.)

If we play the same CCup challenge outside of CCup we will get medals. Inside CCup - no medals. Why?
We have a ladder that is affected by friendly matches (normal clan wars). Incorrect comparison ;).

Dako wrote:(I don't know where you took league word for CCup so I will ignore those sentences.)

If we play the same CCup challenge outside of CCup we will get medals. Inside CCup - no medals. Why?
We have a ladder that is affected by friendly matches (normal clan wars). Incorrect comparison .

I didnt say CCup was a league, quite the opposite.

Normal clan war = Ladder/league game(medals awarded for every win)
CCup = Cup game(medals awarded for winning the cup)
Friendly game = non ladder or cup game(no medals should be awarded) In effect there are very few, if any, truly friendly games.

Comparison stands.

You missed the point that I said friendly matches outside CCup are normal clan wars. Whatever.

Still, I have a question:
If we play the same CCup challenge outside of CCup we will get medals. Inside CCup - no medals. Why?

Because it is a different competition and different rules apply.

If Dynamo Moscow play CSKA Moscow in the league and win they get points(for points read medals). If they meet in the quarter finals of the Russian Cup and Dynamo win again they dont get points, thay are advanced to the semi finals. It is the same two teams fighting, playing the same game with the same rules, but in different competitions.

Gypsys Kiss wrote:Because it is a different competition and different rules apply.

If Dynamo Moscow play CSKA Moscow in the league and win they get points(for points read medals). If they meet in the quarter finals of the Russian Cup and Dynamo win again they dont get points, thay are advanced to the semi finals. It is the same two teams fighting, playing the same game with the same rules, but in different competitions.

exactly, this is why a competition like CCup should be more special and its trophy should be more special because you have to beat a number of teams under strict rules... (only if CC or Clan Directors decided to make the competition OFFICIAL and governed it with their own rules. like CL).

in this case, CL (which is the most important and difficult) should be given the most special medal.

the point of this discrimination is to make the current medal given to a normal friendly war of 42 games look less important. that will make the elite clans unwilling to farm it since they already have a bunch and will be looking for the most important trophies (the official trophies). now the less important medal should be still given to the elite clan if they accepted to take on and beat a new or weak one because the term "farming" won't be valid with more important trophies to seek.