Conquer Club

Master Fenrir wrote:

Chuuuuck wrote:I know I personally put little weight in the CLA because it is very doubles heavy and the 8 game challenges frustrate me.

EXACTLY.

People have different opinions about the dice, but it is understood that "randomness" is more apparent over a larger sample size. This is one of the reasons that I prefer quads games. Even if I fail to conquer a single territory all game, I have 3 teammates who could potentially compensate.

In dubs, 1-2 rounds of good/bad dice can and usually do seal the deal for the entire game. With half of the games for the CLA determined by dubs games, I find I can't take the results too seriously. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the the CC dubs specialists when I say that. I'm just saying that the 4 dubs games in each series maximizes the potential for unfair dice determining the outcome.

My opinion on clans is based much more on their performance in clan wars with more equal team game distributions. If next year the CLA were to adopt a 3 dubs, 3 trips, 3 quads format, I could take the CLA standings more seriously.

you know the law of large numbers do not only apply to the number of players in a game, it also applies to the number of games played. When two evenly matched sides play 100 doubles, the results are likely to be close to 50-50. That is also true for quads.

However, I do agree that the variance is higher for dubs. But over a large number of games its effect decreases significantly. Having said that, I spent the last 20 minutes meticulously taking out the doubles results from Div 1A and below is the ranking that I have using only triples and quads results:

Won Played Win %
IMA 30 39 76.92%
Krt 27 40 67.50%
Tht 21 39 53.85%
L4d 21 40 52.50%
Emp 19 40 47.50%
ImD 17 39 43.59%
Leg 12 40 30.00%
Myt 11 39 28.21%

So basically, people in Thota and Empire who feel that their performance, or lack of it, has been due to bad luck in doubles should now feel fuzzy in knowing that they are exactly where they belong. Actually in the case of emp (the 5th best clan), they are significantly better placed in the actual league because of dubs (Chuuuck take this as a warning for conqueror's cup). The only persons who now have a license to whine are immortal assassins and L4D. Hopefully this will put a stop to the league smear campaign.

Would be interesting to see how the results turn out for 1B -- I am sorry I dont have the motivation to spend another 20 mins.

Interesting numbers... Pretty telling if you ask me.

Edited to add: I am not sure THOTA is harping against the league, as they won Season 1, but they are also very quiet this season about things.

heheh i love this thread! great value, it's like watching a drunk bloke fighting himself in the pub mirror.

Blitzaholic wrote:Ok all, I deleted this from page one.

2010 as of now-subject to change-voted on by 20 clans in the CUP clan tourney

1. Thota
2. Tsm
3. Tofu
4. Empire
5. IA
6. Low
7. Kort
8. Dragoons
9. Nemesis
10. BSS

There is one other problem with the cup voting. AOD and BPB were not voted one. I would venture to say that one of these could be above BSS had they been participating in the cup.

Bruceswar wrote:Interesting numbers... Pretty telling if you ask me.

Edited to add: I am not sure THOTA is harping against the league, as they won Season 1, but they are also very quiet this season about things.

do you want something juicy?


season 1: we had a bit of luck with scheduling, it was very tight in the end.

season 2: we have had our runs of bad luck at the worst possible times. that last set of games against you lot comes to mind bruce.

season 3: we have won already pretty much. i wouldn't even bother showing up if i were you.


sincerely,


the juicer.

khazalid wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:Interesting numbers... Pretty telling if you ask me.

Edited to add: I am not sure THOTA is harping against the league, as they won Season 1, but they are also very quiet this season about things.

do you want something juicy?


season 1: we had a bit of luck with scheduling, it was very tight in the end.

season 2: we have had our runs of bad luck at the worst possible times. that last set of games against you lot comes to mind bruce.

season 3: we have won already pretty much. i wouldn't even bother showing up if i were you.


sincerely,


the juicer.

go and play your go in Scotland you nonce .. PS. no matter how you run the numbers you can't quite make a kill

Blitzaholic wrote:The players I think that would know most if this is a true reflection are chuuuuck, chariot of fire, aafitz, incandenza, comic boy, reptile, hwhwrhett, fireside poet, jpcloet, bruceswar, scott-land, etc., several others too, Most of them have paid thorough attention to the clans thru the years and have longevity.

then maybe you put the names of players which agreed with you about your list in first post, just post which players figure out this list together with you or gave you important input. As long as you don´t do anything like this, the list seems to be your list without including the opinion of anybody else.

I was curious and pm´d 2 of the players you named and asked them if they talked with you about top clans, and both said: "no, i didn´t".
If this is just your list, why don´t you put your name in the title? there are only a few issues with your list, and you could be proud of the work you put in here . So why don´t you want to name it your personal top list? In case you made this list together with a couple of other players, name them in your first post please, or is there any problem about it?

jiminski wrote:

khazalid wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:Interesting numbers... Pretty telling if you ask me.

Edited to add: I am not sure THOTA is harping against the league, as they won Season 1, but they are also very quiet this season about things.

do you want something juicy?


season 1: we had a bit of luck with scheduling, it was very tight in the end.

season 2: we have had our runs of bad luck at the worst possible times. that last set of games against you lot comes to mind bruce.

season 3: we have won already pretty much. i wouldn't even bother showing up if i were you.


sincerely,


the juicer.

go and play your go in Scotland you nonce .. PS. no matter how you run the numbers you can't quite make a kill

i know... i've been putting it off for that very reason. i'll probably give it a shot anyway though.

khazalid wrote:

jiminski wrote:

khazalid wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:Interesting numbers... Pretty telling if you ask me.

Edited to add: I am not sure THOTA is harping against the league, as they won Season 1, but they are also very quiet this season about things.

do you want something juicy?


season 1: we had a bit of luck with scheduling, it was very tight in the end.

season 2: we have had our runs of bad luck at the worst possible times. that last set of games against you lot comes to mind bruce.

season 3: we have won already pretty much. i wouldn't even bother showing up if i were you.


sincerely,


the juicer.

go and play your go in Scotland you nonce .. PS. no matter how you run the numbers you can't quite make a kill

i know... i've been putting it off for that very reason. i'll probably give it a shot anyway though.

heheh bloody Jocks Sticking together ... (you do realise that Daz is only a plastic Scot though...)


and on topic before some nipple nicker comes in ... I think it's fairly obvious that The Stache should be number 1 on each of the years displayed!

i checked under his kilt already

he can't take you either though, the game rumbles onwards.

Seulessliathan wrote:

Blitzaholic wrote:The players I think that would know most if this is a true reflection are chuuuuck, chariot of fire, aafitz, incandenza, comic boy, reptile, hwhwrhett, fireside poet, jpcloet, bruceswar, scott-land, etc., several others too, Most of them have paid thorough attention to the clans thru the years and have longevity.

then maybe you put the names of players which agreed with you about your list in first post, just post which players figure out this list together with you or gave you important input. As long as you don´t do anything like this, the list seems to be your list without including the opinion of anybody else.

I was curious and pm´d 2 of the players you named and asked them if they talked with you about top clans, and both said: "no, i didn´t".
If this is just your list, why don´t you put your name in the title? there are only a few issues with your list, and you could be proud of the work you put in here . So why don´t you want to name it your personal top list? In case you made this list together with a couple of other players, name them in your first post please, or is there any problem about it?

seul those are some players I respect along with some others about clan knowledge and years of longevity, I didn't contact them all, some just posted in here. I only pm'd 5 and none were in thota that I recall that I contacted. The others have posted in this thread at some point and seen page one. They didn't disagree strongly anywhere that I saw in there posts except CoF made me think of one clan I forgot, so I added the untouchables as I forget, thx CoF for that, and JP helped me remember LOd, added them as well, FP helped me remember some in 2006, etc.


Here is an example of one:

hwhrhett wrote:

Blitzaholic wrote:ok, I am pm'ing you 5, because I believe you 5 have more knowledge then the average laymen on cc about clans through the years. If you could look at this link, pm me back or just post in there if you all think that is reasonable and if I left any clans out that should be in there on those lists.

viewtopic.php?f=438&t=109
045&start=0

looks pretty right to me, ill take a longer look and let you know.

also, I did change the title liked you asked for the 10th time, it now says perception, you do know what that means, right seul? In that pm of the 5, the other 4 besides hwh was FP, JP, bruce, and maybe scotty, can't remember. I am not saying the names I listed above and these 5 I pm'd are the only ones that know. I am saying I trust their viewpoints because they been around along time and take clan matters as important. Khaz is another who would have a good idea, there are others too. I just want to see if that seems like a fair list based on players experiences ans memories of the years. No one really kept track of clan material in 2006, but, like I said, we know the top clans then, we also do in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, those are page are the top clans, now some can argue that sure, but, you can argue any list. what I am trying to do is get as many people that remember to see if that is reasonable for the years we did not have a clan ladder in place, that's all seul.

jpcloet wrote:Blitz, 2010 just started, you should remove that. Sooooo preemptive.

I removed 2010 form page one.

hiddendragon wrote:BSS defeated O&H

Thx hidden, I forgot about, great showing there, O+H is solid clan.

Blitzaholic wrote: In that pm of the 5, the other 4 besides hwh was FP, JP, bruce, and maybe scotty, can't remember. .

From: Blitzaholic
To: Fireside Poet hwhrhett Scott-Land jpcloet Bruceswar

Those were the people

Epic soap drama...

Seulessliathan wrote:
I was curious and pm´d 2 of the players you named and asked them if they talked with you about top clans, and both said: "no, i didn´t".
If this is just your list, why don´t you put your name in the title? there are only a few issues with your list, and you could be proud of the work you put in here . So why don´t you want to name it your personal top list? In case you made this list together with a couple of other players, name them in your first post please, or is there any problem about it?

Seul,doing a little detective work eh?Why is this list bothering you so much m8?

Wow this thread should be called "tooting my own horn"... you even had a list already for 2010? You guys are tied with TSM you know...

BW I think seul misinterpreted what I said, thinking I talked with them all directly. I pm'd 5 in pm's, others that posted in the thread, and I made those changes. I think he thought I meant I talked too them all directly one on one, sounds like a counseling session, lol.

John, The 2010 ranks was a temporary carry over from 2009, but was deleted from page 1 because so many thought it was too early. Meaning if the year ended now, those would have been the ranks, I carried over Jp's rankings at the end of 2009 and chuuuucks 21 clan poll votes and used that. Again, it is deleted off page one now though. It has nothing to do with tooting your horn, it is the facts of the ladder and the last poll by 21 clans. Many seemed not to like it saying it was too early, even though I told them all it would change throughout the year, I deleted anyway and still not sure why, I guess just to make them happy. I must be co-dependent.

The Bandits beat BSS and are putting a stronger showing than them in the clan league, maybe we should be above them eh

john9blue wrote: You guys are tied with TSM you know...

Yes, we all realize this, it is not over yet. If Tsm beats us and it ends in let's say March sometime, at that time in the year of 2010, I would say they would be the new # 1 clan, regardless if they bomb in clan league, why? Because they dethroned us when no one ever has, and that deserves a ton of respect and catapults them to # 1 in my view, I would think many would agree with that. Tsm is an outstanding clan and are worthy of being # 1 just as Tofu is. Even if Tsm lost, like I said earlier, out of a possible 10, I ranked Thota 9.7, Tsm 9.6, Tofu 9.5, meaning, they are all worthy and outstanding, there is not much separation. They have proved themselves time and time again. Anyways, that my 2 pennies.

nagerous wrote:The Bandits beat BSS and are putting a stronger showing than them in the clan league, maybe we should be above them eh

maybe, 2010 is not over yet and we need to see all the results, JP does an excellent job at the ladders and they quite complex, at least for me. There is no perfect system, with whatever formula you use. In a sense all the rankings are subjective in ways, but, we would like some merit to it, and we just attempting to try to do that is all. Gr8 job by the way nagerous, I think the BpB are underrated and have some strong talent in the clan.

Blitzaholic wrote:

john9blue wrote: You guys are tied with TSM you know...

Yes, we all realize this, it is not over yet. If Tsm beats us and it ends in let's say March sometime, at that time in the year of 2010, I would say they would be the new # 1 clan, regardless if they bomb in clan league, why? Because they dethroned us when no one ever has, and that deserves a ton of respect and catapults them to # 1 in my view, I would think many would agree with that. Tsm is an outstanding clan and are worthy of being # 1 just as Tofu is. Even if Tsm lost, like I said earlier, out of a possible 10, I ranked Thota 9.7, Tsm 9.6, Tofu 9.5, meaning, they are all worthy and outstanding, there is not much separation. They have proved themselves time and time again. Anyways, that my 2 pennies.

There bruce is your proof of league smear campaign. The world revolves around Thota and only their loss has the power to throne/dethrone a clan.

Blitzaholic wrote:

john9blue wrote: You guys are tied with TSM you know...

Yes, we all realize this, it is not over yet. If Tsm beats us and it ends in let's say March sometime, at that time in the year of 2010, I would say they would be the new # 1 clan, regardless if they bomb in clan league, why? Because they dethroned us when no one ever has, and that deserves a ton of respect and catapults them to # 1 in my view, I would think many would agree with that. Tsm is an outstanding clan and are worthy of being # 1 just as Tofu is. Even if Tsm lost, like I said earlier, out of a possible 10, I ranked Thota 9.7, Tsm 9.6, Tofu 9.5, meaning, they are all worthy and outstanding, there is not much separation. They have proved themselves time and time again. Anyways, that my 2 pennies.

And two pennies is about it's worth Blitz....

waseemalim wrote:

Blitzaholic wrote:

john9blue wrote: You guys are tied with TSM you know...

Yes, we all realize this, it is not over yet. If Tsm beats us and it ends in let's say March sometime, at that time in the year of 2010, I would say they would be the new # 1 clan, regardless if they bomb in clan league, why? Because they dethroned us when no one ever has, and that deserves a ton of respect and catapults them to # 1 in my view, I would think many would agree with that. Tsm is an outstanding clan and are worthy of being # 1 just as Tofu is. Even if Tsm lost, like I said earlier, out of a possible 10, I ranked Thota 9.7, Tsm 9.6, Tofu 9.5, meaning, they are all worthy and outstanding, there is not much separation. They have proved themselves time and time again. Anyways, that my 2 pennies.

There bruce is your proof of league smear campaign. The world revolves around Thota and only their loss has the power to throne/dethrone a clan.

Not necessarily Wasee, I mean, seriously, let's pretend you (Low) win clan season 2, and Tsm beats us in 80 game challenge. You would not rank Tsm # 1 currently? Who would be? Low? because they won clan season 2? Remember, the clan season 2 is what? like 20 games against each clan? In my view it does not hold the same weight as 80 games. Remember, a vast majority agreed that 40 games counted as a clan challenge and effect the ladder, the clan season does NOT have clans playing a minimum of 40 games against each other. Now The CUP does, so that may be different and we would need JP to weigh in on the CUP because those are 40 games. Would they effect the ladder?

Fruitcake wrote:

Blitzaholic wrote:

john9blue wrote: You guys are tied with TSM you know...

Yes, we all realize this, it is not over yet. If Tsm beats us and it ends in let's say March sometime, at that time in the year of 2010, I would say they would be the new # 1 clan, regardless if they bomb in clan league, why? Because they dethroned us when no one ever has, and that deserves a ton of respect and catapults them to # 1 in my view, I would think many would agree with that. Tsm is an outstanding clan and are worthy of being # 1 just as Tofu is. Even if Tsm lost, like I said earlier, out of a possible 10, I ranked Thota 9.7, Tsm 9.6, Tofu 9.5, meaning, they are all worthy and outstanding, there is not much separation. They have proved themselves time and time again. Anyways, that my 2 pennies.

And two pennies is about it's worth Blitz....

To you it is worth that because you are NOT there in the top 3 to 5, but, if you were, it may be worth more. P.S. learn to quote properly.

Blitzaholic wrote:

waseemalim wrote:

Blitzaholic wrote:

john9blue wrote: You guys are tied with TSM you know...

Yes, we all realize this, it is not over yet. If Tsm beats us and it ends in let's say March sometime, at that time in the year of 2010, I would say they would be the new # 1 clan, regardless if they bomb in clan league, why? Because they dethroned us when no one ever has, and that deserves a ton of respect and catapults them to # 1 in my view, I would think many would agree with that. Tsm is an outstanding clan and are worthy of being # 1 just as Tofu is. Even if Tsm lost, like I said earlier, out of a possible 10, I ranked Thota 9.7, Tsm 9.6, Tofu 9.5, meaning, they are all worthy and outstanding, there is not much separation. They have proved themselves time and time again. Anyways, that my 2 pennies.

There bruce is your proof of league smear campaign. The world revolves around Thota and only their loss has the power to throne/dethrone a clan.

Not necessarily Wasee, I mean, seriously, let's pretend you (Low) win clan season 2, and Tsm beats us in 80 game challenge. You would not rank Tsm # 1 currently? Who would be? Low? because they won clan season 2? Remember, the clan season 2 is what? like 20 games against each clan? In my view it does not hold the same weight as 80 games. Remember, a vast majority agreed that 40 games counted as a clan challenge and effect the ladder, the clan season does NOT have clans playing a minimum of 40 games against each other. Now The CUP does, so that may be different and we would need JP to weigh in on the CUP because those are 40 games. Would they effect the ladder?

Blitz, stop changing the landscape of your words every time some one shows your arguments to be highly subjective. Your words were pretty damning...I quote:

I would say they would be the new # 1 clan, regardless if they bomb in clan league, why? Because they dethroned us when no one ever has

Hardly an objective approach....