Conquer Club

oh and another thing. I don't remember who said it but the Mongol Horde is exactly 5% like a Euro knight. They both rode horses that is the only similarity. The Mongols relied on lightning strike horse archers. They were all about hit and move, hit and keep moving. An armored knight on horseback w/a lance is not at all the same as horse archers.

Hecter kicks ass.

i don't fucking care what any of you say, i still think My Little Pony, as led by Sing and Dance Pinkie Pie could kick the shit out of Darth Vader.

also, in a fight, the moon would beat Jupiter.

Samurai just slices right through the knights armor at the wrist joint, or take off the head. A kata will cut steel no problem. In WWII, Japanese soldiers were known to cut through the barels of enemy rifles with their swords. No joke. Of course the plate armor knight was a member of cavalry, so if you put them both on horses (maybe someone mentioned this... I honestly couldn't parse through the 20+ pages here), you'd very well get a different outcome.

gdeangel wrote: A kata will cut steel no problem.

Any proof or did you see this in anime?

Snorri1234 wrote:

gdeangel wrote: A kata will cut steel no problem.

Any proof or did you see this in anime?

Chef that sells Samurai cooking knives on our national TV claims that's true!

And to prove that he can give you this lovely set of 4 Samurai butter knives.

gdeangel wrote:Samurai just slices right through the knights armor at the wrist joint, or take off the head. A kata will cut steel no problem. In WWII, Japanese soldiers were known to cut through the barels of enemy rifles with their swords. No joke. Of course the plate armor knight was a member of cavalry, so if you put them both on horses (maybe someone mentioned this... I honestly couldn't parse through the 20+ pages here), you'd very well get a different outcome.

First of all, it's "katana," a kata is a series of movements and techniques put together. As for the WWII myth of a katana cutting through gun barrels, that was proven to be false. Look it up. Also, there's barely over 12 pages, much less 20. Pay attention.

A templer knight would slash the leather armour and break the katana with his hand. The were the knights the people feared.

I think it's fascinating that the majority of the people thinks knights wore armour just for the fun of being slower than other people....

Snorri1234 wrote:I think it's fascinating that the majority of the people thinks knights wore armour just for the fun of being slower than other people....

i thought it was for fashion.

Snorri1234 wrote:

gdeangel wrote: A kata will cut steel no problem.

Any proof or did you see this in anime?

and didn't they prove it false on Mythbusters?

Katana

The legendary unbreakable sword of the samurai, the katana, created from folded steel, is designed for one purpose—to kill in one stroke. It is capable of cutting a body in two.
^^^^

my vote goes to the samurai for this reason and this reason alone

gimpyThewonder wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

gdeangel wrote: A kata will cut steel no problem.

Any proof or did you see this in anime?

and didn't they prove it false on Mythbusters?

Yes. They can cut carpet roles easily though.

william18 wrote:

gimpyThewonder wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

gdeangel wrote: A kata will cut steel no problem.

Any proof or did you see this in anime?

and didn't they prove it false on Mythbusters?

Yes. They can cut carpet roles easily though.

if only the samurai could trick the knights into wearing carpet rolls.


Too bad otherwise they're fucked.

Knight hands down - lance on horseback wins every time. As long as the knight is accurate. Or has no sense of chivalry, spears the samurai's horse (providing samurai is on horseback) and the samurai topples to the ground, dying due to sudden momentum shift.

Oh wow there are lots of variables.

Can we get clarification on these? I'll also need to know wind speed.

... The samurai's era needs to be clarified. If he were a Genpei Wars era samurai he would take the knight out from a distance on horseback, with his bow (1100's). ... but thinking about it, I don't know enough about armor to say the arrows could penetrate it ...

...

Nobunaga wrote:... The samurai's era needs to be clarified. If he were a Genpei Wars era samurai he would take the knight out from a distance on horseback, with his bow (1100's). ... but thinking about it, I don't know enough about armor to say the arrows could penetrate it ...

...

both titles Knight and Samurai span hundreds of years. the term knight is even more broad as it engenders a plethora of European Nations' warriors too.
I think the assumption has to be that we debate the pinnacle of each code and using hand to had combat .. a Katana v a great sword... but all is debatable.
you then have to consider; does the knight get a shield?.. do they both get their respective armour piercing daggers?... does the samurai get two swords? can the knight use a mace? ..Am i talking a load of old bollox which i know nothing about?

the variables are legion!

jiminski wrote:the variables are legion!

I think we may be able to start the scientific process with this equation:

P(KnightWin) = (Pointypointyness(Knight) / Deflectyness(Samurai)) * (Quickstabbity(Samurai) / Rocksolidness(Knight)) + c

c is the constant from integration.

Discuss...

jiminski wrote:does the samurai get two swords?..Am i talking a load of old bollox which i know nothing about?

well, unlike in the new star wars movies (bullshit) having two swords would actually make things MORE difficult for the samurai.

there was a sword technique known as sword and dagger, but never two swords.

one of those sum of the parts is less than the whole things....

but other than that, i completely agree with you, Pad Thai could kick Peanut Butter and Jelly's ass ANY TIME.

reminisco wrote:

jiminski wrote:does the samurai get two swords?..Am i talking a load of old bollox which i know nothing about?

well, unlike in the new star wars movies (bullshit) having two swords would actually make things MORE difficult for the samurai.

there was a sword technique known as sword and dagger, but never two swords.

one of those sum of the parts is less than the whole things....

but other than that, i completely agree with you, Pad Thai could kick Peanut Butter and Jelly's ass ANY TIME.

well as much as i don't want to be drawn into this; the samurai was often armed with two swords the long sword or ketana and the short sword or wakizashi...

jiminski wrote:

reminisco wrote:

jiminski wrote:does the samurai get two swords?..Am i talking a load of old bollox which i know nothing about?

well, unlike in the new star wars movies (bullshit) having two swords would actually make things MORE difficult for the samurai.

there was a sword technique known as sword and dagger, but never two swords.

one of those sum of the parts is less than the whole things....

but other than that, i completely agree with you, Pad Thai could kick Peanut Butter and Jelly's ass ANY TIME.

well as much as i don't want to be drawn into this; the samurai was often armed with two swords the long sword or ketana and the short sword or wakizashi...

The Wakizashi was for Sepeku, not actual combat.

muy_thaiguy wrote:

jiminski wrote:

reminisco wrote:

jiminski wrote:does the samurai get two swords?..Am i talking a load of old bollox which i know nothing about?

well, unlike in the new star wars movies (bullshit) having two swords would actually make things MORE difficult for the samurai.

there was a sword technique known as sword and dagger, but never two swords.

one of those sum of the parts is less than the whole things....

but other than that, i completely agree with you, Pad Thai could kick Peanut Butter and Jelly's ass ANY TIME.

well as much as i don't want to be drawn into this; the samurai was often armed with two swords the long sword or ketana and the short sword or wakizashi...

The Wakizashi was for Sepeku, not actual combat.

oh yeah, and sword and dagger was only used in the West, i meant.

so like Leonardo on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles... he was kind of bullshit. i mean, the mutant turtle part was all scientifically accurate. but the wielding two katanas thing? nope. no way.

that's not actually true MT; it was used in combat and for ritual suicide.

anyway i am not suggesting the Samurai used two swords at once .. simply the array of weaponry at the warriors disposal..

for example if the samurai's long sword were to get stuck in the knights shield (chosen without metal edge to cause such ) would their be another option to the essentially disarmed man.

hehe right that's it this is all very silly!

muy_thaiguy wrote:Knight with plate and chain mail armor vs samurai in armor

Easy, the Knight; he has better armor and a greater range of weapons at his disposal, including a steel shield. The Shield and Sword combination would undoubtedly trouble a Samurai; the sword can parry and the shield bashes hard to the Samurai's face/head and no katana can cut through a wooden shield, let alone one made of solid metal.

Furthermore, a suit of plate mail is only vunerable at the joints and the only weapons that will harm the man inside without needing to be aimed at the joints are weapons like the axe and mace, which the Samurai are not familiar with (to say nothing of the steel armor suit the man is wearing in the first place). The European swords like the typical longsword or better items like the Flamberge, are much more versitile that the Katana; all parts of the Flamberge are used to not only strike, but parry, trap, disarm and to perform weapon-assisted joint-locks.

The training of the Knight went beyond weapons, but included a comprehensive system of hand-to-hand combat along the vein of the Ancient Greek art of Pankration. The physical fitness routine of the Knight was also equal to that of the Ancient Greek Warriors and training began at the age of seven, ending at the age of 21.

Also contrary to common belief, Knights needed no help getting into their saddles and had greater agility that people are commonly led to believe. The same can be said for the myth that a Knight's sword wieghted twenty to forty pounds; simply put no such thing happened, five pounds maybe seven but never as much as ten.

The skills of the Late-Medievel/Early Renaissance Knight, multiplied by the technology at his disposal, as more than a match for any Samurai. Check out ARMA for more information.

Knights kick arse.

He'd only have to wait for the samurai to slip up and then fall on him.

Splat.