American gun culture

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Woodruff
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Woodruff »

Phatscotty wrote:The violence is escalated the moment a criminal decides to commit a crime, not the moment the victim tries to protect themselves.


The reality is that violence is escalated in EACH of those moments. C'mon, Scotty...it's basic English!

Phatscotty wrote:What I did was post a piece of evidence proving my point. Bottom of page 4.
Your response to my evidence was to make 3 or 4 expletive laden posts all about me and how stupid I am.


You believe that your anecdotal "evidence" validates what you're saying, which really does point toward your not looking at the situation rationally. You also seem to believe that your life is only worth whatever amount of money you happen to have in your wallet at any given time.

HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Now, would you care to respond to the actual points that I've made...?


You made actual points?


Someday, you might get moved into the class where they actually think about what they read, then you can join us in recognizing actual points.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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HapSmo19
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Re: American gun culture

Post by HapSmo19 »

Woodruff wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Now, would you care to respond to the actual points that I've made...?


You made actual points?


Someday, you might get moved into the class where they actually think about what they read, then you can join us in recognizing actual points.


OK. So help me out here...

Boil your points down to where I can understand them cuz they seem more like insult-laden opinion to me. Thanks.

Example:

Point 1: (one short sentence)

Point 2: (one short sentence)

etc...
PLAYER57832
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Re: American gun culture

Post by PLAYER57832 »

I doubt these are Woodruff's points, but here they are:

1. People who carry guns already have the mindset that they might use them, so are less likely to pursue other options, are more likely to be slightly more confrontational, which will more often than not result in escalation of aggression, the problem. This is one reason why men are more likely to get into fights than women.

2. Simply being aware of your surroundings, being confident (not OVER-confident, just "self assured") goes a LONG way toward identifying dangerous situations before you get into any kind of confrontation. If you need a gund to be confident.. well....

3. In most scenarios, one of two things happen.
A. a guy brings out a gun with no warning, starts shooting. (Ft Hood, Arizona, etc.) This is rare, but these guys are "primed". They already have their gun out before anyone knows, are already shooting those they consider the most threatening (or who they just want to get the most.. usually self-preservation is not a high priority for these guys).

B. "this is a stick up, m'am". Unless you actually have your gun in your had already, its unlikely to be successful.

C. You notice the guy carrying or pulling out the gun in advance. A home invasion is the most likely event to follow this pattern, simply because we "notice" anyone coming to our homes. Anyone even trying to get in without an invitation is a warning for anyone! BUT... if you have kids, you have to keep the guns locked up. (period!) or put them in possible danger. And, yes, that is a very, very, very real and not to be minimized problem. If you have them locked up, then the chances you can get to them before a bad guy who really wants to come in can enter are fairly slim. For every guy like the one above you catch, are cases of someone accidentally shooting a relative, neighbor, etc. I DO know people who essentially live in armed camps. You don't go up to their door without letting them know you are coming.. period. But, does everyone want to live that way? I frankly do not. I consider that closer to jail than freedom! I want the kind of house where the neighborhood kids feel welcome to come and play.
D. there are other situations, but most studies on this show that carrying a gun is more likely to cause you to have a problem than not, and that you are more likely to be shot by your own gun than to shoot someone else.

___-___________
Sure, I heard the story of the lady in Texas who wished she had her gun in her purse instead of her car, but that is part of the point. You are never going to have a gun with you at all times. If you rely on your gun for your protection, then the minute you put it down, it fails. Better to rely on other methods from the start.

Also, a LOT of gun violance is actually domestic violance. In most of those cases, having a fun available was key. I do know people who wish they did not have a gun available. And.. I am married to someone who says over and over that if he had had a gun readily available at a certain point in his prior marriage, he would be in jail now. (note, he had plenty of guns, but they were locked up.. and the time delay was just enough to make him back up and leave rather than confronting).
Borderdawg
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Borderdawg »

HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Now, would you care to respond to the actual points that I've made...?


You made actual points?


Someday, you might get moved into the class where they actually think about what they read, then you can join us in recognizing actual points.


OK. So help me out here...

Boil your points down to where I can understand them cuz they seem more like insult-laden opinion to me. Thanks.

Example:

Point 1: (one short sentence)

Point 2: (one short sentence)

etc...


Forget it Hap, Woody has turned into a (?)male(?) version of player. That's sad, too. I used to have some respect for him, and thought a lot of his posts were quite well phrased, even if I disagreed with him. Lately though............WOW!!! And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here, regardless of what that big eared prick in washington says! So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice. And no, it wasn't a fantasy, it was shit scary real.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Borderdawg wrote: And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here, regardless of what that big eared prick in washington says! So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice. And no, it wasn't a fantasy, it was shit scary real.

Nobody here is whining about people carrying weapons, at least not those with training. People are saying that the claim they make you safer is dubious at best. And... I would not live on the border if I felt I needed a gun for my safety. I prefer freedom over living in an armed camp.
Army of GOD
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Army of GOD »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Borderdawg wrote: And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here, regardless of what that big eared prick in washington says! So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice. And no, it wasn't a fantasy, it was shit scary real.

Nobody here is whining about people carrying weapons, at least not those with training. People are saying that the claim they make you safer is dubious at best. And... I would not live on the border if I felt I needed a gun for my safety. I prefer freedom over living in an armed camp.


I bet where Borderdawg lives is more free than where you live.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Army of GOD wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Borderdawg wrote: And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here, regardless of what that big eared prick in washington says! So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice. And no, it wasn't a fantasy, it was shit scary real.

Nobody here is whining about people carrying weapons, at least not those with training. People are saying that the claim they make you safer is dubious at best. And... I would not live on the border if I felt I needed a gun for my safety. I prefer freedom over living in an armed camp.


I bet where Borderdawg lives is more free than where you live.

lol
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HapSmo19
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Re: American gun culture

Post by HapSmo19 »

PLAYER57832 wrote:I doubt these are Woodruff's points, but here they are:

1. People who carry guns already have the mindset that they might use them, so are less likely to pursue other options, are more likely to be slightly more confrontational, which will more often than not result in escalation of aggression, the problem. This is one reason why men are more likely to get into fights than women.

2. Simply being aware of your surroundings, being confident (not OVER-confident, just "self assured") goes a LONG way toward identifying dangerous situations before you get into any kind of confrontation. If you need a gund to be confident.. well....

3. In most scenarios, one of two things happen.
A. a guy brings out a gun with no warning, starts shooting. (Ft Hood, Arizona, etc.) This is rare, but these guys are "primed". They already have their gun out before anyone knows, are already shooting those they consider the most threatening (or who they just want to get the most.. usually self-preservation is not a high priority for these guys).

B. "this is a stick up, m'am". Unless you actually have your gun in your had already, its unlikely to be successful.

C. You notice the guy carrying or pulling out the gun in advance. A home invasion is the most likely event to follow this pattern, simply because we "notice" anyone coming to our homes. Anyone even trying to get in without an invitation is a warning for anyone! BUT... if you have kids, you have to keep the guns locked up. (period!) or put them in possible danger. And, yes, that is a very, very, very real and not to be minimized problem. If you have them locked up, then the chances you can get to them before a bad guy who really wants to come in can enter are fairly slim. For every guy like the one above you catch, are cases of someone accidentally shooting a relative, neighbor, etc. I DO know people who essentially live in armed camps. You don't go up to their door without letting them know you are coming.. period. But, does everyone want to live that way? I frankly do not. I consider that closer to jail than freedom! I want the kind of house where the neighborhood kids feel welcome to come and play.
D. there are other situations, but most studies on this show that carrying a gun is more likely to cause you to have a problem than not, and that you are more likely to be shot by your own gun than to shoot someone else.

___-___________
Sure, I heard the story of the lady in Texas who wished she had her gun in her purse instead of her car, but that is part of the point. You are never going to have a gun with you at all times. If you rely on your gun for your protection, then the minute you put it down, it fails. Better to rely on other methods from the start.

Also, a LOT of gun violance is actually domestic violance. In most of those cases, having a fun available was key. I do know people who wish they did not have a gun available. And.. I am married to someone who says over and over that if he had had a gun readily available at a certain point in his prior marriage, he would be in jail now. (note, he had plenty of guns, but they were locked up.. and the time delay was just enough to make him back up and leave rather than confronting).


I went against my better judgement and read your convoluted nonsense......again. My bad.
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Woodruff
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Woodruff »

HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Now, would you care to respond to the actual points that I've made...?


You made actual points?


Someday, you might get moved into the class where they actually think about what they read, then you can join us in recognizing actual points.


OK. So help me out here...

Boil your points down to where I can understand them cuz they seem more like insult-laden opinion to me. Thanks.


Of course opinion is involved...it's unavoidable on this subject. And yes, there's a fair number of insults regarding Phatscotty...my complete lack of respect for him leads me to believe that's what he deserves...but those insults don't in any way alter the points I was making. As for my points, it would help if you'd TRY to actually read them (it's not difficult, as I do use English), but here goes:

First post: I strongly support the Second Amendment and I do believe it is important. That being said, the idea that "having a holstered gun at your side" is somehow going to make you any more safe is a fallacy. If anything, you are presenting yourself as a target for more aggressive initial force, much more likely to end your life. Even if someone has a knife to your throat, you're more likely to extract yourself though martial arts techniques than you are by reaching for your gun. At that point, actual skill with your gun is really irrelevant.

Next post: In response to Phatscotty's statement that "if you don't want a gun, then hire security to follow you around 24/7", I pointed out that you would do yourself a lot more good by simply being aware of your surroundings to avoid trouble in the first place, rather than having to extract yourself from that trouble after the fact.

Next post: I stated that having found yourself in the situation of being mugged, your chances of survival are drastically higher by simply handing over your wallet rather than risk your life trying to keep it. Not the happiest alternative, certainly...but I don't tend to have so much of value in my wallet that it outweighs how much I value my life.

Next post: I pointed out that the statement you were attempting to use as a comparison to mine was completely inaccurate.

Next post: I responded to Phatscotty's attempt at portraying me as some sort of a pussy by pointing out that I undoubtedly understand more about how to handle oneself in a dangerous situation than he does, thanks to the training I've received.

Next post: I express regret that Phatscotty doesn't value his life more than the contents of his wallet.

Next post: I point out that Phatscotty goes to great lengths to ignore and obfuscate perfectly valid points against his statements. I also point out that he appears to have the innate intelligence of a plant.

Next post: I call Phatscotty a hypocrite.

Next post: I point out that Phatscotty's attempt to hide the escalation of violence in regard to someone making the attempt to protect themselves by pulling out a gun doesn't even make basic sense. I also point to his anecdotal evidence as anecdotal evidence and re-iterate that he seems to believe his life is not worth more than the contents of his wallet at that given time. I also tell you to start using a bit of reading comprehension skills, because I know you must have them in the deep, dark recesses of your capabilities, if you'd only try just a little bit.

This final post: I treat you like the child you seem to want to be by walking you through a very simple reading lesson.
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Phatscotty
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:John Lott, who wrote More Guns, Less Crime, provided much more evidence than you--concerning more guns bringing less crime, and he still hasn't ended the debate because his methods were questionable.

The truth is that no one is really sure--not even the experts, so why should anyone spend additional time debating this issue with you?


I am sure about it for myself. That doesn't make me an expert, but all I can say is what I know, take it or leave it. Debating it with me is your choice. Gun owners are simply practicing their rights. Criminals abuse those rights. I just say blame the criminal instead of punishing the law abiding citizens. that's pretty much it
Last edited by Phatscotty on Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Woodruff
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Woodruff »

Borderdawg wrote:Forget it Hap, Woody has turned into a (?)male(?) version of player.


You really do need to learn how to read. PLAYER and I disagree on a great many things.

Borderdawg wrote:That's sad, too. I used to have some respect for him, and thought a lot of his posts were quite well phrased, even if I disagreed with him. Lately though............WOW!!! And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!!


Where have I said anything against those who carry firearms for personal protection? I have clearly stated that I strongly support the Second Amendment. Do you guys even read things before you jump to your unfounded conclusions?
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:John Lott, who wrote More Guns, Less Crime, provided much more evidence than you--concerning more guns bringing less crime, and he still hasn't ended the debate because his methods were questionable.

The truth is that no one is really sure--not even the experts, so why should anyone spend additional time debating this issue with you?


I am sure about it for myself. That doesn't make me an expert, but all I can say is what I know, take it or leave it. Debating it with me is your choice. Gun owners are simply practicing their rights. Criminals abuse those rights. I just say blame the criminal instead of punishing the law abiding citizens. that's pretty much it


I'm talking about gun ownership and its relationship to crime.

You tend to go on these incoherent tangents, so what's your actual position?
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:John Lott, who wrote More Guns, Less Crime, provided much more evidence than you--concerning more guns bringing less crime, and he still hasn't ended the debate because his methods were questionable.

The truth is that no one is really sure--not even the experts, so why should anyone spend additional time debating this issue with you?


I am sure about it for myself. That doesn't make me an expert, but all I can say is what I know, take it or leave it. Debating it with me is your choice. Gun owners are simply practicing their rights. Criminals abuse those rights. I just say blame the criminal instead of punishing the law abiding citizens. that's pretty much it


I'm talking about gun ownership and its relationship to crime.

You tend to go on these incoherent tangents, so what's your actual position?


See I thought you asked me a question about why anyone would debate with me on this issue. I answered it clearly. If this is how you act when you don't like my answer, then you can feel free to stop asking.

now, you were saying about coherency?
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:John Lott, who wrote More Guns, Less Crime, provided much more evidence than you--concerning more guns bringing less crime, and he still hasn't ended the debate because his methods were questionable.

The truth is that no one is really sure--not even the experts, so why should anyone spend additional time debating this issue with you?


I am sure about it for myself. That doesn't make me an expert, but all I can say is what I know, take it or leave it. Debating it with me is your choice. Gun owners are simply practicing their rights. Criminals abuse those rights. I just say blame the criminal instead of punishing the law abiding citizens. that's pretty much it


I'm talking about gun ownership and its relationship to crime.

You tend to go on these incoherent tangents, so what's your actual position?


See I thought you asked me a question about why anyone would debate with me on this issue. I answered it clearly. If this is how you act when you don't like my answer, then you can feel free to stop asking.

now, you were saying about coherency?


Do you really believe that evidence derived from your personal observations (and one-time instances like that news story) provide enough evidence that your stance should be applied to the entire United States?
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Phatscotty
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

I stated my experience is what I offered, and that you can take it or leave it.

My stance is already applied to the entire United States, and it has been for some time.

...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Popular opinion based on little concrete evidence doesn't make it true, PHatsco.


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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:Popular opinion based on little concrete evidence doesn't make it true, PHatsco.


My evidence aside, are you planning to use this same derpy argument against all the other evidence other posters have shared previously? You know, 1 piece of evidence is 1 piece of evidence, but there are a few other 1 pieces of evidence. Now you have 4 or 5 pieces of evidence. Tomorrow you will have 6 or 7, yet I fear you will continue to pound your chest about how few examples there are and continue to deal with it through mocking star wars pictures.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Popular opinion based on little concrete evidence doesn't make it true, PHatsco.


My evidence aside, are you planning to use this same derpy argument against all the other evidence other posters have shared previously?

The derp grows


Explain.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Popular opinion based on little concrete evidence doesn't make it true, PHatsco.


My evidence aside, are you planning to use this same derpy argument against all the other evidence other posters have shared previously?

The derp grows


Explain.


Okay, but this is the last time I am holding your hand through a conversation. I never said it was true for everyone and everything. For the third and last time, it is true for me.

Borderdawg wrote: And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here. So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice.


Now you can feel free to go ahead and dismiss his experiences like you are dismissing mine, or more likely call him a liar.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Popular opinion based on little concrete evidence doesn't make it true, PHatsco.


My evidence aside, are you planning to use this same derpy argument against all the other evidence other posters have shared previously?

The derp grows


Explain.


Okay, but this is the last time I am holding your hand through a conversation. I never said it was true for everyone and everything. For the third and last time, it is true for me.

Borderdawg wrote: And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here. So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice.


Now you can feel free to go ahead and dismiss his experiences like you are dismissing mine, or more likely call him a liar.


I thought so.

We're discussing two different things, but you're mistaking it for the same thing.

You've probably conflated my stance with Symmetry's.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Popular opinion based on little concrete evidence doesn't make it true, PHatsco.


My evidence aside, are you planning to use this same derpy argument against all the other evidence other posters have shared previously?

The derp grows


Explain.


Okay, but this is the last time I am holding your hand through a conversation. I never said it was true for everyone and everything. For the third and last time, it is true for me.

Borderdawg wrote: And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here. So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice.


Now you can feel free to go ahead and dismiss his experiences like you are dismissing mine, or more likely call him a liar.


I thought so.

We're discussing two different things, but you're mistaking it for the same thing.

You've probably conflated my stance with Symmetry's.


Then which "little concrete evidence" of mine were you harping on? Because I only shared one, the article, about how guns are used for self defense, which also matches my experience. Borderdawg also shared some examples of self defense. I don't think anything is conflated, you just gotta keep your derping in order.

I don't even know what your stance is, but it sure seems like you think carrying a gun is dumb and just leads to more problems, which kinda makes it seem like you think the second amendment is dumb or unnecessary. Or, maybe, just maybe, you are trying to smear someone
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
My evidence aside, are you planning to use this same derpy argument against all the other evidence other posters have shared previously?

The derp grows


Explain.


Okay, but this is the last time I am holding your hand through a conversation. I never said it was true for everyone and everything. For the third and last time, it is true for me.

Borderdawg wrote: And to the those of you who whine about those of us who carry firearms for personal protection may I just say......f*ck You!! I live on the Tex-Mex border, and violence is pretty much a daily thing around here. So, yeah, I carry, and I keep weapons accessible to me and my children in the house. And symmyboy, to answer you from much earlier, yes, my having a weapon on my person has stopped a few crimes in the last 30+ years. Saved me from getting beaten and robbed at least twice.


Now you can feel free to go ahead and dismiss his experiences like you are dismissing mine, or more likely call him a liar.


I thought so.

We're discussing two different things, but you're mistaking it for the same thing.

You've probably conflated my stance with Symmetry's.


Then which "little concrete evidence" of mine were you harping on? Because I only shared one, the article, about how guns are used for self defense. Borderdawg also shared some examples of self defense. I don't think anything is conflated, you just gotta keep your derping in order.

I don't even know what your stance is
, but it sure seems like you think carrying a gun is dumb and just leads to more problems, which dare I say means you either do not support citizens bearing arms or you think that bearing arms is dumb.


http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=152870&view=unread#p3353491

But let's change topics:
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Phatscotty
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

I did not make any reply to your stance as you put it there, I only answered your question about why anyone would "spend additional time" debating it with me.

On the bright side, we do have the answer to that one!
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BigBallinStalin
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Re: American gun culture

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:... but it sure seems like you think carrying a gun is dumb and just leads to more problems, which dare I say means you either do not support citizens bearing arms or you think that bearing arms is dumb.


You're way off, so let me explain.

Carrying a gun isn't always dumb because it depends on the situation and the operator.

I've no problems with self-defense and the current gun ownership laws, but I do have problems with people who fantasize about killing someone--which is totally different from someone who exercises situational awareness and plans for potential threats.

The difference between Mr. Situational Awareness and most of the fantastic yahoo's with their freedom pistols is that the former is much more practical and safer, while the latter tends to be an idiot with a loaded gun.
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Phatscotty
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Re: American gun culture

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:... but it sure seems like you think carrying a gun is dumb and just leads to more problems, which dare I say means you either do not support citizens bearing arms or you think that bearing arms is dumb.


You're way off, so let me explain.

Carrying a gun isn't always dumb because it depends on the situation and the operator.

I've no problems with self-defense and the current gun ownership laws, but I do have problems with people who fantasize about killing someone--which is totally different from someone who exercises situational awareness and plans for potential threats.

The difference between Mr. Situational Awareness and most of the fantastic yahoo's with their freedom pistols is that the former is much more practical and safer, while the latter tends to be an idiot with a loaded gun.


Okay, well I don't know where a legal gun owner fantasizing about killing someone comes from (besides Symm), but I think that the assertion the fantasy exists or is prevalent is ridiculous. The fantasy occurring with someone who has a gun illegally and plans to use it illegally, far less ridiculous.

Someone who uses a gun for defense does not fantasize, someone who uses a gun for offense probably does, and even at that point I would call it a plan, or pre-meditation, not a fantasy lol.
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