Conquer Club

Boxcutta, stop usin your foul logic in your attempts to corrupt Jay's IMORTALL SOUL

BTW the reason that Christians get ridiculed is the fact that they say things like above

And, mirak, Jay's avi shows Jay preaching

Mirak wrote:how I imagine Jay might look when practising his preaching in front of the bathroom mirror

This picture has probably been posted 100 times on this site(99 of those times in reference to Jay), but what the hell, what's one more.

Aradhus wrote:This picture has probably been posted 100 times on this site(99 of those times in reference to Jay), but what the hell, what's one more.

Catholicism WOW!

Aradhus, who is that in your avatar? Is it the albino from The davinci code, or Billy Idol?

*sigh*

I'm retiring from this debate for awhile. It generally all descends to where we are now and then goes full circle back to the point we're at right now.

And where are we right now? Both sides are saying the same exact thing to one another.

"We're right. You're wrong. How can you expect me to look at YOUR point of view rationally when you won't look at MINE rationally?'

Irony there, that both sides think the same thing of one another, and I'm getting sick of seeing it so many times.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:*sigh*

I'm retiring from this debate for awhile. It generally all descends to where we are now and then goes full circle back to the point we're at right now.

And where are we right now? Both sides are saying the same exact thing to one another.

"We're right. You're wrong. How can you expect me to look at YOUR point of view rationally when you won't look at MINE rationally?'

Irony there, that both sides think the same thing of one another, and I'm getting sick of seeing it so many times.

*puts down his popcorn and walks over* Let's go get a burger, they'll still be here when we get back.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
"We're right. You're wrong. How can you expect me to look at YOUR point of view rationally when you won't look at MINE rationally?'

Irony there, that both sides think the same thing of one another, and I'm getting sick of seeing it so many times.

Fortunately this doesn't apply to me. I was raised a Christian, I have extensively studied the bible.

Without a doubt, it is not the 'word of god', there are so many things within the bible that prove this. The only thing that surprises me about the bible is that it doesn't start with the words, "once upon a time". Of course, the book has been edited and rewritten and butchered so many times I wonder...

vtmarik, my avatar is a fictional character called Spike.

Aradhus wrote:

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
"We're right. You're wrong. How can you expect me to look at YOUR point of view rationally when you won't look at MINE rationally?'

Irony there, that both sides think the same thing of one another, and I'm getting sick of seeing it so many times.

Fortunately this doesn't apply to me. I was raised a Christian, I have extensively studied the bible.

Without a doubt, it is not the 'word of god', there are so many things within the bible that prove this. The only thing that surprises me about the bible is that it doesn't start with the words, "once upon a time". Of course, the book has been edited and rewritten and butchered so many times I wonder...

vtmarik, my avatar is a fictional character called Spike.

Well, THIS is something that may be argued fairly concretely. Go ahead and prove to me that the Bible is not divinely inspired basing your argument on things within the Bible itself.

*sigh of relief that we're back on track*

Aradhus wrote:The only thing that surprises me about the bible is that it doesn't start with the words, "once upon a time".

Thank You.

Backglass wrote:

Aradhus wrote:The only thing that surprises me about the bible is that it doesn't start with the words, "once upon a time".

Thank You.

Careful backglass! You're derailing the train of intelligent and civilized debate I just attempted to re-rail

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Careful backglass! You're derailing the train of intelligent and civilized debate I just attempted to re-rail

I thought Aradhus made some extremely intelligent comments...and I commended him.

Backglass wrote:

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Careful backglass! You're derailing the train of intelligent and civilized debate I just attempted to re-rail

I thought Aradhus made some extremely intelligent comments...and I commended him.

intelligent as they may have been, i saw absolutely nothing backing them up. Hence why I asked him to cite his reference to the Bible proving itself to have not been divinely inspired.

I think it's best if BOTH sides avoid making posts like that (intelligent, maybe, but without citation). It makes debating far easier and avoids us getting into the rut which we seem to fall into so periodically.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:

Backglass wrote:

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Careful backglass! You're derailing the train of intelligent and civilized debate I just attempted to re-rail

I thought Aradhus made some extremely intelligent comments...and I commended him.

intelligent as they may have been, i saw absolutely nothing backing them up. Hence why I asked him to cite his reference to the Bible proving itself to have not been divinely inspired.

I think it's best if BOTH sides avoid making posts like that (intelligent, maybe, but without citation). It makes debating far easier and avoids us getting into the rut which we seem to fall into so periodically.

i agree...

Never in my life have i ever heard a christian being made fun of, Jews on the other hand well just about evry day. I once asked someone why evryone makes fun of jews so much ( Note im not a jew ) And he said "BECOUSE THEY KILLED JESUS!"

Here's the deal. I will stop "misusing" the word "theory" if everyone else stops misusing the word "Christian".

Aradhus wrote

I was raised a Christian, I have extensively studied the bible.

Without a doubt, it is not the 'word of god', there are so many things within the bible that prove this.

A "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Dare I say someone that has accepted Christ? Reading the Bible does not make one a christian. Being "raised" in a household that attends a christian church does not make one a christian either.

Lets address the word "fact". Maybe I'm wrong and need to look it up in Websters, but I understand a FACT to be something that can be proven. Now if anyone here can prove evolution has occured or even is occuring please enlighten me.

jay_a2j wrote:Here's the deal. I will stop "misusing" the word "theory" if everyone else stops misusing the word "Christian".

Aradhus wrote

I was raised a Christian, I have extensively studied the bible.

Without a doubt, it is not the 'word of god', there are so many things within the bible that prove this.

A "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Dare I say someone that has accepted Christ? Reading the Bible does not make one a christian. Being "raised" in a household that attends a christian church does not make one a christian either.

Lets address the word "fact". Maybe I'm wrong and need to look it up in Websters, but I understand a FACT to be something that can be proven. Now if anyone here can prove evolution has occured or even is occuring please enlighten me.

I thought his point was valid enough jay. He was simply trying to say that his parents raised him to be Christian. Whether or not he considered himself Christian was never implied- his point was simply that he has has a general knowledge of the Bible, though he didn't really go anywhere with that point.

Which is thus why I'm quite curious to hear him support his assertions...

jay_a2j wrote:Lets address the word "fact". Maybe I'm wrong and need to look it up in Websters, but I understand a FACT to be something that can be proven. Now if anyone here can prove evolution has occured or even is occuring please enlighten me.

Your immune system.

End of line.

It has been a long time since I picked up a bible. There are few scriptures I can recall off the top of my head. And what you ask of me is a lot more than you probably realise. It is my experience, that when I logically prove that the bible is not god's word, my hard work and endeavour is repaid with a "but I've got Faith!"

I no longer care to open the eyes of the blind. But I will offer something, the beginning. How it always starts.
Why are the old and new testaments so different?
Why does Jesus reject laws that are taught in the old testament(God's word)?
Was God's word wrong? Was he teaching the wrong laws?!

The bible is a broken hallelujah.

vtmarik wrote:Your immune system.

End of line.

See, we can't have debate with answers like this.

I do hope that, based on my history of posting, you can trust me to remain rational in my debating.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that faith may be logically defended. As such, you will find me quite willing to logically defend it. In any event, I will answer what I can from what you have provided me.

Why are the old and new testaments so different?

A common enough question. The Old Testament is often quite violent, speaks of wars, and talks of God as often being angry with His people. And let's face it- there was plenty to be angry about. Remember how Moses descended from the mountain only to find his former followers worshiping a golden calf? Examples of such disloyalty to the God whom had given them so much pepper the Old Testament.

Does that mean God loved humanity less? Check this out: (Genesis 6:5-8 )

"When the Lord saw how great was man's wickedness on earth... he regretted that he had made man on earth and his heart was grieved. So the Lord said: 'I will wipe out from the earth the men whom I have created... for I am sorry that I made them.' But Noah found favor with the Lord."

Humanity had let God down so much that God regretted His creation. But God loved us (and by that I mean US- the future of the human race) enough to give us a second chance- he gave us Noah, who salvaged humanity. Afterward, the Lord made a covenant with Noah- the world was now ours to do with it what we wished.

The book of Songs (also referred to as "Song of Songs") compares the Lord's love for his creation to the ideal marriage. This is a rather appropriate metaphor, I think, because it shows that even in the gravest of anger, there is always a willingness to give another chance which may grow, and grow into something amazing.

And lo, it HAS grown into something amazing. It has grown, according to the Bible, into the human race.

What's more, God was not only willing to give us a second chance, he was willing to send his son down to die so that sins may be forgiven. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son..." (John 3:16).

That's where the New Testament comes in. It is years after the fight between spouses has occurred, and the act of love which salvaged the marriage has led to such that one would sacrifice anything for his beloved. The New Testament shows us that sacrifice that God has made for us, and because of that sacrifice the marriage is forever sealed- thus its message is softer, it shows us how we may repay the Lord for the sacrifice He has made unto us.

I hope that is an adequate explanation, any other questions on it, let me know.

Moving on:

Why does Jesus reject laws that are taught in old testament(God's word)?
Was God's word wrong? Was he teaching the wrong laws?!

Examples?

jay_a2j wrote:

vtmarik wrote:Your immune system.

End of line.

See, we can't have debate with answers like this.

Answers that leave you with no possible sensible repost...
No we can't have that can we...?

But seriously...Jay why can't you reconcile your faith in Jesus and belief in the Bible, with the knowledge and discoveries that mankind have achieved over 2000 years?

The Bible, within your framework of thinking, is God speaking to man 2000 years ago...maybe he kept it simple...so that a world full of evil, stupid, sinful people could be shown the spirit of his message in an easy to comprehend manner......it was not and never was meant to be a science manual or text book full of "facts"...

Mirak wrote:Answers that leave you with no possible sensible repost...
No we can't have that can we...?

No, answers that have no explanation. Answers that really mean nothing. Answers submerged in vagueness. And anwers like yours that show no sense but mearly to slam who you are responding too.

jay_a2j wrote:

Mirak wrote:Answers that leave you with no possible sensible repost...
No we can't have that can we...?

No, answers that have no explanation. Answers that really mean nothing. Answers submerged in vagueness. And anwers like yours that show no sense but mearly to slam who you are responding too.

Sorry something came up and while I was editing my post you responded...I hope you will see that I am trying to have a dialogue and not just "slam" you but a bit of humour is not all that bad and you are pretty adept at it yourself

Backglass wrote:

Aradhus wrote:The only thing that surprises me about the bible is that it doesn't start with the words, "once upon a time".

Thank You.

I second the thanking.