Conquer Club

In your own words, why did the Soviet Union fall?

REAGEN!!

Wronald Reagen?

mrswdk wrote:In your own words, why did the Soviet Union fall?

Bad economy, inefficient production, poor planning of investments.
Good example would be: If a worker has solution for inefficient production but he isn't sharing it because he is not happy(or rewarded) the progress will stall. Many workers doing the same is recepie for economic crisis.

How dangerous is the threat of terrorists from Syria was demonstrated by Dutch journalist who bought a fake Syrian passport with the picture of the Prime Minister of the Netherlands printed on it
http://www.sott.net/article/301996-Surp ... -do-it-too

GoranZ wrote: How dangerous is the threat of terrorists from Syria was demonstrated by Dutch journalist who bought a fake Syrian passport with the picture of the Prime Minister of the Netherlands printed on it
http://www.sott.net/article/301996-Surp ... -do-it-too

I won't lie, I want one in the name "McLovin" not sure who's picture to put on it.

GoranZ wrote:

mrswdk wrote:In your own words, why did the Soviet Union fall?

Bad economy, inefficient production, poor planning of investments.
Good example would be: If a worker has solution for inefficient production but he isn't sharing it because he is not happy(or rewarded) the progress will stall. Many workers doing the same is recepie for economic crisis.

How dangerous is the threat of terrorists from Syria was demonstrated by Dutch journalist who bought a fake Syrian passport with the picture of the Prime Minister of the Netherlands printed on it
http://www.sott.net/article/301996-Surp ... -do-it-too

--Andy

GoranZ wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

GoranZ wrote:You dont need rebellion to change a government, its enough if the efficiency of everything drops considerably.

1 - what does that mean?
2 - please give some examples of occasions where people doing whatever you are talking about has led to a regime change in a country

Easy... Collapse of the communism, Western Roman Empire(the empire was able to defend its self against the German invaders but the population was not willing) etc...

You are talking about destroying morale. How do you suggest the Morale of the lower ranks of ISIS be undermined?

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote: Every ISIS is personally responsible, in order to be valuable ISIS member need to make war crime. Large part of ISIS army are not even Syrians.

Emphasis on the word 'valuable' here. Not every member of Isis is valued, so even by your own argument, not every one of them has committed atrocities. Would you say the ones that have been press ganged (conscripted) into service against their will deserve death too? Yes, many fighters are not from that region, but many more ARE.

The problem is their goal... their goal is to be valuable, and we all know what that means.

Ok, this doesn't even make any SENSE. Whose goal is it to be valuable? I thought their goal was to establish a State of Islam.

The conscripted wouldn't want to be valuable, they would just do enough to get by.

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote: When it comes to Afghanistan I can say that everything that Americans did there is justified, if it was up to me I would have wiped every Taliban town and village to the ground that contributed with men in Taliban army. With objective, Taliban movement to be "forgotten" once for all in Afghanistan. And if Pakistan doesn't do the same attack it also(regardless of its nuclear capabilities).
Most of American soldiers did what they did for revenge for America, not for Bush.

Except...how did attacking Afghanistan punish those that were responsible for 9/11? The Taliban were not the ones that attacked us, and in fact, the US is responsible for the Taliban gaining power in the first place--we supported them in their war to fight off the Soviet occupiers.

The Taliban were not the ones that attacked US, but they were the one that were supporting(in any way) those that attack US

Of course our intelligence SAYS they supported them. They have to justify it somehow. And that still doesn't deal with the fact that the US put them in power to begin with.

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote: You know what is the difference between ISIS and all others, all ISIS soldiers(no exceptions) are religious soldiers that don't honor Geneva Conventions, they honor Wahhabi ideology.
Thats why they must die, all of them. From my perspective I can not be sure about a single one of them, if they even consider to honor Geneva Conventions.

Like you say, how can we know if every soldier that followed Castro supported Communism?

I turn that question back on you. How can you KNOW with 100% certainty that all ISIS soldiers, with NO exceptions, are deeply religious fundamentalists willing to do anything for that cause? The answer is...you cannot. So stop with the hypocritical arguments.

Castro's communist are not famous for cutting heads, or blowing up historical monuments, so there is a huge difference between a communist and jihadist. Whats more important former Communist countries(not only 1, but many) are now part of NATO. I doubt you can turn jihadist into westerner, he would rather suicide

It's like I'm talking to a brick wall here. Those conscripted would rather be back home with their families, farming, herding sheep or goats, mining, whatever it is they do for a living. So yes, you can turn those away without just eradicating them.

For another example, many Nazi criminals were not convicted in the Nuremberg trials. And yet those who were not convicted seem to have had no trouble fitting in, or they would have been heard from. Trust me, Nationalism can be just as powerful a motivator as religion. So your argument falls apart right there. You CAN turn someone away who's just there for a paycheck, or to protect themselves and/or their family.

GoranZ wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

GoranZ wrote: I still cant believe how can a westerner cheer ISIS No matter how you look ISIS are bad, no matter how hard you try you wont find anything good in them.

Usually if the people doesn't agree with the regime they look for ways to end it, like the person bellow
>Hitler salute picture<

Or Hitlers assassination attempt(Resistance in Germany was way closer at taking out Hitler then any ally attempt ever): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot
Also Communism in Europe fall apart from the hands of its own people.

lel

Yeah, if people are unhappy with living under a brutal regime then they just rush out and start mobilizing a resistance, as demonstrated by the fact that one guy at the back of a crowd once refused to do a Hitler salute.

Unless people are totally desperate, or the risks of seeking change are fairly low, nothing will happen.

You dont need rebellion to change a government, its enough if the efficiency of everything drops considerably.

If that really was always enough you wouldn't have countries torn apart by civil war still, or worse, apparently unified but with government agencies so corrupt they might as well be dictatorships in name as well.

subtleknifewield wrote:

waauw wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:So on that principle, you think 'guilty until proven innocent. We'v all seen how that works out. Nothing we do is going to get all of them. That is a given. There will always be more extremists. But if we go total extermination...we end up creating even MORE. If nothing else, it's a matter of practicality and logic. By killing them all we just create even MORE enemies. Let's not create more than we can handle, yes? That should make sense to you if the moral argument does not.

Yes, it is about logic and practicality. There is a far bigger picture here, that you don't seem to have noticed. If you kill them, you create hatred among their people. If you let them go and mix among your own people, you create hatred inside your own population. This is an observable fact. Every muslim terrorist attack escalates the situation on the entire continent.

Killing off ISIS might create hatred in a far off land, but a reborn nationalist hatred can shake up the foundations of your own society. Better to keep the threat external, rather than internal.

Yeah, and? My argument wasn't about letting them in or not, it was about killing them all or not. This is a side issue to what I am discussing. I'll let individual nations sort out their own policies when it comes to handling refugees.

In short, I never argued either for or against letting refugees in, I only argued against killing all ISIS members of ISIS whether they joined out of belief or fear.

Aside from how a member of ISIS came to be such.....How is 'killing them all' a realistic option? Or even a realistic perception?

I would like to know that too.

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

GoranZ wrote:You dont need rebellion to change a government, its enough if the efficiency of everything drops considerably.

1 - what does that mean?
2 - please give some examples of occasions where people doing whatever you are talking about has led to a regime change in a country

Easy... Collapse of the communism, Western Roman Empire(the empire was able to defend its self against the German invaders but the population was not willing) etc...

You are talking about destroying morale. How do you suggest the Morale of the lower ranks of ISIS be undermined?

Easy...
-cut the media presence with drastic measures like deportation of whole families, confiscation of property etc.
-close mosques(and forbid creation of new one in that area for life) if there are multiple instances of residents of that area joining ISIS.
-cut their funding

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote: Every ISIS is personally responsible, in order to be valuable ISIS member need to make war crime. Large part of ISIS army are not even Syrians.

Emphasis on the word 'valuable' here. Not every member of Isis is valued, so even by your own argument, not every one of them has committed atrocities. Would you say the ones that have been press ganged (conscripted) into service against their will deserve death too? Yes, many fighters are not from that region, but many more ARE.

The problem is their goal... their goal is to be valuable, and we all know what that means.

Ok, this doesn't even make any SENSE. Whose goal is it to be valuable? I thought their goal was to establish a State of Islam.

The goal of ISIS is to create State of Islam, the goal of ISIS members is to be higher in its hierarchy, are you mixing them on purpose?

subtleknifewield wrote:The conscripted wouldn't want to be valuable, they would just do enough to get by.

Good part(if not majority) of ISIS soldiers are not even Syrians, why are you talking about conscripts?

IT BEGINS: Muslim demands Munich end ‘anti-Islamic’ Oktoberfest

Germany is giving them food and clothes and they are offended by the German way of living
If you dont like German way of living get a f*ck out of Germany(or better said Europe)

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote: You are talking about destroying morale. How do you suggest the Morale of the lower ranks of ISIS be undermined?

Easy...
-cut the media presence with drastic measures like deportation of whole families, confiscation of property etc.
-close mosques(and forbid creation of new one in that area for life) if there are multiple instances of residents of that area joining ISIS.
-cut their funding

So basically you are saying renege on the Freedom of the Press, renege on Freedom of Religion, basically throw out the entire legal process, sink to their level, let them undermine the very essence of WHO WE ARE, to beat them. How does this make us any better than them, exactly?

Also how do you suggest we cut their funding? People are already working on that, what MORE can be done that is not being done already?

Basically what you outlined could very easily lead to religious or ethnic persecution like the Japanese Americans faced in WWII, being sent off to concentration camps. It's a slippery slope, you SURE you want to head down that road?

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:

GoranZ wrote: Every ISIS is personally responsible, in order to be valuable ISIS member need to make war crime. Large part of ISIS army are not even Syrians.

Emphasis on the word 'valuable' here. Not every member of Isis is valued, so even by your own argument, not every one of them has committed atrocities. Would you say the ones that have been press ganged (conscripted) into service against their will deserve death too? Yes, many fighters are not from that region, but many more ARE.

The problem is their goal... their goal is to be valuable, and we all know what that means.

Ok, this doesn't even make any SENSE. Whose goal is it to be valuable? I thought their goal was to establish a State of Islam.

The goal of ISIS is to create State of Islam, the goal of ISIS members is to be higher in its hierarchy, are you mixing them on purpose?

You said 'they.' The word 'they' is a general term and highly unspecific. Next time be more specific, and don't blame me if there's a misunderstanding.

And as I stated before, the goal of a conscript would not be to be valuable, it would be to d the minimum necessary to protect whatever they valued that was threatened, whether their own person, their families, their livelihoods, etc.

GoranZ wrote:

subtleknifewield wrote:The conscripted wouldn't want to be valuable, they would just do enough to get by.

Good part(if not majority) of ISIS soldiers are not even Syrians, why are you talking about conscripts?

Because like it or not those conscripts exist, despite your refusal to consider them as anything less than human. You have repeatedly stated ALL members of ISIS should be wiped out, whether they honestly believe in the cause or not, whether they have committed atrocities or not.

Aside from the impracticality of killing every person who so much as admired ISIS, you are suggesting basically sinking to their level by saying that. Because the attitude of 'kill them all' has worked out well SOOO much in the past (can you detect my sarcasm here?).

A couple of days ago on the french program C'est dans l'air one of the guests made a very interesting and true remark. The woman was pointing out the fact that western media weren't reporting the immigration crisis from a neutral perspective. In Hungary the camera's kept rolling onto young male immigrants, while in western europe the camera's desperately sought out all of the women and children. Nice piece of public manipulation!

GoranZ wrote:IT BEGINS: Muslim demands Munich end ‘anti-Islamic’ Oktoberfest

Germany is giving them food and clothes and they are offended by the German way of living
If you dont like German way of living get a f*ck out of Germany(or better said Europe)

Lol, now that's something I can actually agree with you on...if you don't like the customs of your hosts...leave XD

waauw wrote:A couple of days ago on the french program C'est dans l'air one of the guests made a very interesting and true remark. The woman was pointing out the fact that western media weren't reporting the immigration crisis from a neutral perspective. In Hungary the camera's kept rolling onto young male immigrants, while in western europe the camera's desperately sought out all of the women and children. Nice piece of public manipulation!

What do you expect? It's the media!

GoranZ wrote:IT BEGINS: Muslim demands Munich end ‘anti-Islamic’ Oktoberfest

Germany is giving them food and clothes and they are offended by the German way of living
If you dont like German way of living get a f*ck out of Germany(or better said Europe)

Snopes is your friend
http://m.snopes.com/ban-oktoberfest-petition/

jonesthecurl wrote:

GoranZ wrote:IT BEGINS: Muslim demands Munich end ‘anti-Islamic’ Oktoberfest

Germany is giving them food and clothes and they are offended by the German way of living
If you dont like German way of living get a f*ck out of Germany(or better said Europe)

Snopes is your friend
http://m.snopes.com/ban-oktoberfest-petition/

Jones, stop injecting truth or facts into Goranz's fervor.




--Andy

jonesthecurl wrote:

GoranZ wrote:IT BEGINS: Muslim demands Munich end ‘anti-Islamic’ Oktoberfest

Germany is giving them food and clothes and they are offended by the German way of living
If you dont like German way of living get a f*ck out of Germany(or better said Europe)

Snopes is your friend
http://m.snopes.com/ban-oktoberfest-petition/

No I'm not as dumb as he is.

Short story(bring the conclusions on your own, or long story with explanation is listed bellow):

I posted a link with real petition, and my title is: "IT BEGINS: Muslim demands Munich end ‘anti-Islamic’ Oktoberfest", I never included "refugee" in the title, nor the original author of the petition or the one from the article. The content of the petition was clearly visible for everyone.
You posted a link with claims that I have never made, nor the petition in the first place and that is 'Muslim refugees are demanding a ban on Oktoberfest'. The petition is not made by Muslim refugees, there is a name of who open it. What you are posting is twisting of the truth. Find something wrong with what I posted, not with some fiction you dig up.

@AndyDufresne Grow up you dumb monkey.


Long story(explanation):

The petition...

Dear City council of Munich,

I am writing this letter to bring to your attention something that I and many Muslims believe is unfair and requires attention. I would like to inform you that the Oktoberfest is an Intolerant and Anti-Islamic event. We tried to ignore the event, but there too many Un-Islamic acts done at the Oktoberfest. Such as alcohol consumption, public nudity etc.

We understand that the Oktoberfest is a yearly German tradition, but we, Muslims, can not tolerate this Un-Islamic event, because it offends us and all Muslims on the earth. We are requesting the immediate cancellation of the upcoming Oktoberfest event.

We also believe that the Oktoberfest might also offend all the Muslim refugees coming from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. The cancellation of the Oktoberfest event will help refugees not to forget their Islamic history. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Morad Almuradi

From jonesthecurl site:

Claim: Muslim refugees are demanding that the city of Munich, Germany, ban Oktoberfest.

And there is a conclusion that the claim is FALSE... But in reality there was no claim that the refuges are demanding to ban Oktoberfest.

From jonesthecurl site:

While the petition was “real” in the sense that someone actually posted it to Change.org, it was not written by “Muslim refugees” in Germany as implied by some publications. The author of the petition, Morad Almuradi, listed his location as The Netherlands

Whats interesting your link says it precisely... 'petition was “real”' and 'it was not written by “Muslim refugees” in Germany'

Jonesy owns Snopes. Who knew?

Related to all of this: http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/ ... story-hoax


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Related to all of this: http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/ ... story-hoax


--Andy

If you want the refuges you can take them home, no one is forbidding you that.

The influence of Muslims in Western societies is shocking... they bring a lot of blood.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nline.html

GoranZ wrote:

AndyDufresne wrote:Related to all of this: http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/ ... story-hoax


--Andy

If you want the refuges you can take them home, no one is forbidding you that.

The influence of Muslims in Western societies is shocking... they bring a lot of blood.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nline.html

Yeah, but at the top of the list of related links:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... d-Cup.html

Prince Harry amused rugby fans this evening when he appeared in a feature video about the origins of rugby.

GoranZ wrote:Macedonia struggles with migrants wanting to enter EU, and it seems like the situation is deteriorating every day.

Greece capacities were overwhelmed last week, Macedonia suffer the same faith this week, most likely next week it will be Serbia's turn. A month or two after that EU's.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34008867

The irony to be bigger this is only the beginning...

That was your best oportunity to have a more decent amount of population since you guys are so tiny!

betiko wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Macedonia struggles with migrants wanting to enter EU, and it seems like the situation is deteriorating every day.

Greece capacities were overwhelmed last week, Macedonia suffer the same faith this week, most likely next week it will be Serbia's turn. A month or two after that EU's.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34008867

The irony to be bigger this is only the beginning...

That was your best oportunity to have a more decent amount of population since you guys are so tiny!

Please abstain from penis conversations. This is a serious political thread.