Conquer Club

saxitoxin wrote:

Titanic wrote:This topic proves why a lot of people view so many Americans (not all) as ignorant, self obsessed and arrogant. Thank you for proving ours points so blissfully.

says the pot to the kettle -

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=117934&start=120#p2632257

As we can see from Titanic (and others) chest-thumping elsewhere, Europeans (though Britons aren't really European, they're hangers-on; Europe doesn't really want them - they're the uninvited fat kid who sneaked into the party and people are trying to ignore hoping he'll get the picture) aren't really mad at American warmongering and imperialism, they're just mad that the Americans are better at warmongering and imperialism than they are...

This is the fallacy of patriotism and why Marx was correct when he identified national borders as a construct to distract the working class.

This whole thread is no more erudite than cheering at a football match.

You Saxi seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the brits. Something upset you?

I would hardly call us hangers on with Europe. I admit that our current standing in Europe is not that high but we are making ground to improve that.

I as a brit, do not care for war mongering or imperialism and so feel no envy towards America.

Now, they are a more powerful country, that is certainly not in debate, but they are not the best at imperialism in history. And to be honest i dont think the Americans, brits or anyone else cares who the best at Imperialism is or was.

You take the position that you want to placate the thread and yet in reality you do your best to stir it up.

joecoolfrog wrote:Please provide details of all these IRA supporters that were jailed in the USA , especially those who were prosecuted before 9/11 .

Ol' Sax will be very disappointed if Americans here take this bait. Americans should proudly embrace the fact that they did not "jail" people supporting Ireland's right to national self-determination and right to live free after 1,000 years of English rape and pillage.

Dariune wrote:I would hardly call us hangers on with Europe. I admit that our current standing in Europe is not that high ...

You don't have to be Nigel Farage to realize that may be the understatement of the century!

saxitoxin wrote:

joecoolfrog wrote:Please provide details of all these IRA supporters that were jailed in the USA , especially those who were prosecuted before 9/11 .

Ol' Sax will be very disappointed if Americans here take this bait. Americans should proudly embrace the fact that they did not "jail" people supporting Ireland's right to national self-determination and right to live free after 1,000 years of English rape and pillage.

Dont worry Saxi , Dumbjeff is not a real American because his Great Aunt still has a financial interest in a slipper making factory in Slovenia.

joecoolfrog wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:

joecoolfrog wrote:Please provide details of all these IRA supporters that were jailed in the USA , especially those who were prosecuted before 9/11 .

Ol' Sax will be very disappointed if Americans here take this bait. Americans should proudly embrace the fact that they did not "jail" people supporting Ireland's right to national self-determination and right to live free after 1,000 years of English rape and pillage.

Dont worry Saxi , Dumbjeff is not a real American because his Great Aunt still has a financial interest in a slipper making factory in Slovenia.

This made ol' Sax LOL and ROTFL!

*Saxi Nominates this for Post-of-the-Year*

nagerous wrote:

Titanic wrote:This topic proves why a lot of people view so many Americans (not all) as ignorant, self obsessed and arrogant. Thank you for proving ours points so blissfully.

What I was going to say.

Clearly, then, we are the best at sarcasm.

Pedronicus wrote:

The Bison King wrote:

Basically, to be American properly, you need to be able to instantly and decisively know what things are Good and what things are Bad. There is ‘’no’’ ambiguity. Got that? Below are some basic examples – for more, write to your Congressman (if you know who your Congressman is. Being an American, of course, you won’t.)

Give me a fucking break! do you really buy into that??? You took the characteristics that defined George W. Bush and decided that that's what all Americans are like. That's a huge generalization, and pretty damn offensive.

So then Mr Angry, did you click on the link that was above what you just quoted?
no

here's a link to another subject from the same website.
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Al-Qaeda

now click on that and tell me if you think that the website i copied from originally is a serious website, or is it a website that's TAKING THE PISS????

America is much bigger and far more diverse in both sociological and geographic terms than any nation in Europe. It is more diverse than any other nation, with the possible exception of Australia and Russia. (China has much more diversity than some people believe, but it is not as diverse as the U.S of A.)

As a result, you can say just about anything about "US beliefs"/manners, etc and be speaking truth.
Politically, we have made a bunch of mistakes. By virtue of being more powerful for a time, we are disliked. Add in that we have bullied, have allowed our companies to bully others and there are plenty of reasons for people to hate us. Even so, we have a lot of good qualities as well. Unlike many nations, we are more free to challenge and debate our leaders. That alone puts us above many, though not most of Europe. However, our freedom, combined with our sheer size and overall diversity (not just people, not just topography and climate, not just economics, but all of that combined) mean there are many more ideas here. Many of those are garbage, but the odds are in our favor that a few wind up proving out.

joecoolfrog wrote:DumbJef
Please provide details of all these IRA supporters that were jailed in the USA , especially those who were prosecuted before 9/11 .

LOLOL!!!

Well you just proved a point.

Why do something for yourself when it's simpler asking an American to do for you what you should do for yourself.

I spose you'll blame me if you can't.

How's the weather? Hope your enjoying it! If you are I spose it will be a gift of from nature. If it isn't it will be AMERICA'S fault.

Bye now... Again.

PLAYER57832 wrote:As a result, you can say just about anything about "US beliefs"/manners, etc and be speaking truth.
Politically, we have made a bunch of mistakes. By virtue of being more powerful for a time, we are disliked. Add in that we have bullied, have allowed our companies to bully others and there are plenty of reasons for people to hate us. Even so, we have a lot of good qualities as well. Unlike many nations, we are more free to challenge and debate our leaders. That alone puts us above many, though not most of Europe. However, our freedom, combined with our sheer size and overall diversity (not just people, not just topography and climate, not just economics, but all of that combined) mean there are many more ideas here. Many of those are garbage, but the odds are in our favor that a few wind up proving out.

You think you're more politically diverse then other states? You have a two party nation where they overlap on a lot of issues (especially corporatist issues) and no third party even stands a chance of minor gains in one single state.

Btw, "free to challenge and debate our leaders", are you kidding me? Seriously, you think your cabinet and top leaders are fully accountable and have to tackle the serious questions?

Titanic wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:As a result, you can say just about anything about "US beliefs"/manners, etc and be speaking truth.
Politically, we have made a bunch of mistakes. By virtue of being more powerful for a time, we are disliked. Add in that we have bullied, have allowed our companies to bully others and there are plenty of reasons for people to hate us. Even so, we have a lot of good qualities as well. Unlike many nations, we are more free to challenge and debate our leaders. That alone puts us above many, though not most of Europe. However, our freedom, combined with our sheer size and overall diversity (not just people, not just topography and climate, not just economics, but all of that combined) mean there are many more ideas here. Many of those are garbage, but the odds are in our favor that a few wind up proving out.

You think you're more politically diverse then other states? You have a two party nation where they overlap on a lot of issues (especially corporatist issues) and no third party even stands a chance of minor gains in one single state.

Btw, "free to challenge and debate our leaders", are you kidding me? Seriously, you think your cabinet and top leaders are fully accountable and have to tackle the serious questions?

I always look forward to the opportunity to support Titanic's emotional and developmental achievements by backing him up in a thread, and it's rare I get to do so, but important we all make that effort given his unique circumstances.

Titanic is correct about the US and the US' two parties and lack of political diversity. I will go further to say that the US is, in fact, a one party state and probably the world record holder to be longest under a one party regime.

That said, if you're going to start down this road it's very small minded and insular to not follow it through to the end of the path. As there are no Democrats and no Republicans - only the institutional one party - neither is there really any functioning nation called the UK or Canada, except on paper and in the imagination of the people who live in those historic regions. The world is a stage and the One Party is the puppeteer pulling the strings.

Few people are aware - but it's hardly a secret - that the two branches of the One Party each have their own foreign affairs divisions funded and financed by the US State Department. The Democrat branch (NDI) funnels funds to left-leaning parties in other countries while the Republican branch (IRI) funnels funds to right-leaning parties. This occurs at transitional stages in nation-states so that, no matter what ideology is in government the leaders will be beholden to the United States. Poland and Ceska are both excellent case-points.

In the case of the United Kingdom the tentacles are more covered and darkened but it's clear for a thousand reasons that nation is simply a US client state. Just as one example - four years ago New Statesman ran an illuminating article about how the UK didn't have the capability to paint the tailfin on one of their ballistic missiles without getting sign-off by a mid-level US bureaucrat in a 7th floor office cubicle in Denver. (http://www.newstatesman.com/200603270008)

The most important pieces of that article I quote below.
---

These are the final pieces in a jigsaw which exposes simple facts that British leaders have long known but a generation of Thatcherite consensus has obscured: we cannot and do not make our own nuclear weapons; we are not a true nuclear power; we are mere clients of the US.

The Conservative government itself had to admit that there were never any "identifiably British" Trident missiles in the US navy store where British submarines loaded up. The words "Royal Navy" were only painted on the missiles for test-firing, to make good publicity pictures.

The British people believe that an independent bomb exists. They don't know that this insurance policy is valid only when Washington feels like it. And the premiums are high: in return for this dodgy insurance, Britain must follow the US line.

---

This is not a tenable state-of-affairs for the world to exist in and yet the situation is even more solidified now than it was four years ago when the article was written. Still, I don't blame Americans. I blame the leaders of these nations who have let their countries be completely co-opted to the status of mere clients and who fool their people with these cardboard institutions like the European Union that are as relevant and real as Machukko, the Salo Republic or any other number of imaginary polities that have been propped up over the years to mask the agenda of a powerful client.

A vanguard of anti-revisionist Marxist-Leninists in this world is the only group that seems to realize these fundamental truths and is fighting for real change.

During the Cold War, RN SSBN's monitored BBC 2 continuously. In the event of an interruption in the chain-of-command they were to check BBC 2. If BBC 2 was off-air they were to assume there was no longer a functioning government in the United Kingdom and immediately put to sea for Norfolk, Virginia where they were to transfer their warhead inventory to the US Navy and stand down.

This was never (that we know of) the state of affairs with the French Force de Frappe. French nuclear warfighting forces were designed for infinite independence in operation and there was never even a tertiary backup plan - let alone the immediate program - to transfer the national deterrent to foreign control in the event of an exigency.

In contingency planning,the Friendship and Technical Assistance Treaty members (AKA Warsaw Pact) always viewed the existence of two NATO nuclear forces: the French and the American. The British deterrent was, for planning purposes, always viewed as simply a division of the US arsenal.

It is infinitely inane for Britons to criticize the United States as Britons are simply Americans who don't have voting rights in the government that is in charge of their country (the US government). The UK has much in common with Puerto Rico in that sense.

They no longer teach the concept of suzerainty in international law, I have been led to understand, as it is supposedly antiquated. I don't think there's a more accurate term than suzerain to describe the role of the US, though.

I digress.

I don't hate America. Unlike many people here have said I don't think many Canadians hate America either. I am critical of certain American ideas and policies but this doese not equate hatered. Canadian nationalism is often shaped by being deliberately non-american, which makes sense realy as our country was formed as a reaction to american independence and a desire to not remain british subjects. This doesen't equal hatered either merely an assertion of difference.

Anyways I think Americans have come up with some of the best ideas the world has seen and generaly has had a possitive influence in world history. That being the USA has its fair share of skeletons in the closet(like evryone else) and I think it should be held to a slightly higher standard considering its position as a global role model.

Who gives a flying f*ck what the rest of the world thinks...


-tig

Titanic wrote:You think you're more politically diverse then other states? You have a two party nation where they overlap on a lot of issues (especially corporatist issues) and no third party even stands a chance of minor gains in one single state.

Yes, I think we are. Clearly this is not the case at the Federal level, but if it wasn't for geography keeping people apart both political parties would have broken up decades ago. Democrats in the South West are vastly different from democrats in the South East, and vastly diferent from the democrats in the Mid West and vastly different from the Democrats in the North West. The same is true for Republicans. Both parties tend to be alike at the Federal level because the good old boy system is run from the federal level to keep people that most of the grassroots call party member in name only (RINO or DINO).

New York and a few other states allow a candidate to run on multiple lines. In these states minor parties (In New York these parties include the "Conservative" and the "Working Familes Party") have a greater clout and on occasion they can get in candidates at the local level.

ITT:

- Foreigners verbally attack Americans out of jealousy and spite, based on what they see in the media.
- Americans defend themselves and their principles, based on a history of being the world's dominant country.
- Foreigners call this blind patriotism and cite it as an example of why they hate Americans.

However, I would guess based on snorri's thread (among other things) that other countries are able to match the political diversity in the US. We are a two party state. Some would even call us a one party state.

john9blue wrote:ITT:

- Foreigners verbally attack Americans out of jealousy and spite, based on what they see in the media.
- Americans defend themselves and their principles, based on a history of being the world's dominant country.
- Foreigners call this blind patriotism and cite it as an example of why they hate Americans.

However, I would guess based on snorri's thread (among other things) that other countries are able to match the political diversity in the US. We are a two party state. Some would even call us a one party state.

That comment was brought to you by a supporter of cowardly terrorist assholes.

The world doesn't hate us when they want/need us to save their sorry asses and feed em.

A day will come when we tell you 2nd rate countries to stuff it where it belongs...

This is an example of blind patriotism.

Snorri1234 wrote:

That comment was brought to you by a supporter of cowardly terrorist assholes.

The world doesn't hate us when they want/need us to save their sorry asses and feed em.

A day will come when we tell you 2nd rate countries to stuff it where it belongs...

This is an example of blind patriotism.

Falkomagno wrote:USA should go away from there....now....who says that usa is the bulwark of democracy and good ideals in the world???nobody...go and solve your own problems, before go and mess another poor and unprotected country...cowards

Falkomagno wrote:Terrorist?....thats USA...no a fucking beard guy...wake up

No snore. It is based on prior posts.

jefjef wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

That comment was brought to you by a supporter of cowardly terrorist assholes.

The world doesn't hate us when they want/need us to save their sorry asses and feed em.

A day will come when we tell you 2nd rate countries to stuff it where it belongs...

This is an example of blind patriotism.

Falkomagno wrote:USA should go away from there....now....who says that usa is the bulwark of democracy and good ideals in the world???nobody...go and solve your own problems, before go and mess another poor and unprotected country...cowards

Falkomagno wrote:Terrorist?....thats USA...no a fucking beard guy...wake up

No snore. It is based on prior posts.

prior posts that were posted later?

Snorri1234 wrote:

jefjef wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

That comment was brought to you by a supporter of cowardly terrorist assholes.

The world doesn't hate us when they want/need us to save their sorry asses and feed em.

A day will come when we tell you 2nd rate countries to stuff it where it belongs...

This is an example of blind patriotism.

Falkomagno wrote:USA should go away from there....now....who says that usa is the bulwark of democracy and good ideals in the world???nobody...go and solve your own problems, before go and mess another poor and unprotected country...cowards

Falkomagno wrote:Terrorist?....thats USA...no a fucking beard guy...wake up

No snore. It is based on prior posts.

prior posts that were posted later?

From an older thread.

Nah, I don't hate them I just know they're largely wankers

Titanic wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:As a result, you can say just about anything about "US beliefs"/manners, etc and be speaking truth.
Politically, we have made a bunch of mistakes. By virtue of being more powerful for a time, we are disliked. Add in that we have bullied, have allowed our companies to bully others and there are plenty of reasons for people to hate us. Even so, we have a lot of good qualities as well. Unlike many nations, we are more free to challenge and debate our leaders. That alone puts us above many, though not most of Europe. However, our freedom, combined with our sheer size and overall diversity (not just people, not just topography and climate, not just economics, but all of that combined) mean there are many more ideas here. Many of those are garbage, but the odds are in our favor that a few wind up proving out.

You think you're more politically diverse then other states? You have a two party nation where they overlap on a lot of issues (especially corporatist issues) and no third party even stands a chance of minor gains in one single state.

In this, you largely confuse voting with thinking. Our representatives are less likely to share our individual ideals than in Europe. However, that would happen anyway, just because we are so much larger. A local LA commissioner represents more people than some European cabinet/parliament members.

THORNHEART wrote:Btw, "free to challenge and debate our leaders", are you kidding me? Seriously, you think your cabinet and top leaders are fully accountable and have to tackle the serious questions?

First, I did say "not [above] most of Europe" in that. Even so, what you are referring to is overall power of the individual, not our ability to talk/challenge. Again, our shear size means each person will have less individual impact (on average) than in most of Europe.

I will leave it to the lawyers to decide who has the tighter libel laws, who has the greater freedom to speak, freedom of the press, freedom to protest, etc. For most of us, it seems to "look" about the same, but just the fact of our sheer numbers mean we have more diversity.

We have many diverse Native American tribes (and make no mistake, the Seneca, Navaho, Chumash and Inuit may all be "Native Americans", but they are hardly the same!), Amish/Mennonite/Hutterite (and other "plain" people), Hassidism, Hippies, polygamists, Walstreet tycoons, farmers, loggers, Cajun fishermen, Creole, Key West "beach bums", people from every nation on Earth of multiple generations (first, second, third) and all combinations thereof, etc... etc... etc. Sure, Europe each European nation is also diverse, but our sheer size means we have more.

saxitoxin wrote:

Titanic wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:As a result, you can say just about anything about "US beliefs"/manners, etc and be speaking truth.
Politically, we have made a bunch of mistakes. By virtue of being more powerful for a time, we are disliked. Add in that we have bullied, have allowed our companies to bully others and there are plenty of reasons for people to hate us. Even so, we have a lot of good qualities as well. Unlike many nations, we are more free to challenge and debate our leaders. That alone puts us above many, though not most of Europe. However, our freedom, combined with our sheer size and overall diversity (not just people, not just topography and climate, not just economics, but all of that combined) mean there are many more ideas here. Many of those are garbage, but the odds are in our favor that a few wind up proving out.

You think you're more politically diverse then other states? You have a two party nation where they overlap on a lot of issues (especially corporatist issues) and no third party even stands a chance of minor gains in one single state.

Btw, "free to challenge and debate our leaders", are you kidding me? Seriously, you think your cabinet and top leaders are fully accountable and have to tackle the serious questions?

I always look forward to the opportunity to support Titanic's emotional and developmental achievements by backing him up in a thread, and it's rare I get to do so, but important we all make that effort given his unique circumstances.

Titanic is correct about the US and the US' two parties and lack of political diversity. I will go further to say that the US is, in fact, a one party state and probably the world record holder to be longest under a one party regime.

You are talking votes/political power, not individual thinking or presence.

saxitoxin wrote:That said, if you're going to start down this road it's very small minded and insular to not follow it through to the end of the path. As there are no Democrats and no Republicans - only the institutional one party - neither is there really any functioning nation called the UK or Canada, except on paper and in the imagination of the people who live in those historic regions. The world is a stage and the One Party is the puppeteer pulling the strings.

Few people are aware - but it's hardly a secret - that the two branches of the One Party each have their own foreign affairs divisions funded and financed by the US State Department. The Democrat branch (NDI) funnels funds to left-leaning parties in other countries while the Republican branch (IRI) funnels funds to right-leaning parties. This occurs at transitional stages in nation-states so that, no matter what ideology is in government the leaders will be beholden to the United States. Poland and Ceska are both excellent case-points.

In the case of the United Kingdom the tentacles are more covered and darkened but it's clear for a thousand reasons that nation is simply a US client state. Just as one example - four years ago New Statesman ran an illuminating article about how the UK didn't have the capability to paint the tailfin on one of their ballistic missiles without getting sign-off by a mid-level US bureaucrat in a 7th floor office cubicle in Denver. (http://www.newstatesman.com/200603270008)

[/quote]
Probably more truth in there than you realize, but its also true that going by what's in these4 forums would not even begin to tapt he diverse political thought in this country.

This thread would of gone down a storm on the Arabic version of Conquer Club

PLAYER57832 wrote:BARRRRRF

Please don't speak to me.

Thanks, Playa'!
- Uncle Saxi
Unofficial CC Happiness Ombudsman