Conquer Club

kevinc wrote:Nothing good gets created with compromise...

Hm, I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. I think the whole map making process is essentially compromise. You create everything with one single eye of vision, and the here in the Foundry that one eye increased tenfold. Perhaps they see how things could be better in some aspect of gameplay or visuals you had not seen, etc. Compromise comes with the territory of making a map. If there was none, people might as well just create these maps for themselves, rather than the community here at CC as a whole.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:kevincNothing good gets created with compromise...

Hm, I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. I think the whole map making process is essentially compromise. You create everything with one single eye of vision, and the here in the Foundry that one eye increased tenfold. Perhaps they see how things could be better in some aspect of gameplay or visuals you had not seen, etc. Compromise comes with the territory of making a map. If there was none, people might as well just create these maps for themselves, rather than the community here at CC as a whole.[/quote]

That's not compromise. That's consultation, which is definitley a good thing. But it's more of a religious argument and not worth discussing here. But I will say in my professional experience that if you try to pander to everyone's needs you rarely get a good end product. (just google for bikeshedding to find out more info)




That's for all the feedback guys. My thinking is what qeee1 just said, that the other continents are difficult, by maing connaught & munster 2 it means that the others are worth holding, and actually going for. I could put in Wicklow mountains to break up The Pale & Ossary, as a few people suggested, but I think they map might feel a bit closed up.

I still think the midlands is a great continent, that is very holdable, and could often be very strategic. The Pale is tough, but for something with only 5 counties it's worth quite a lot if you manage to hold it. I think games on this map could be fast, but with a lot of strategy.

Ultimately, a lot of this is map design is educated guesswork, and it's quite hard to see how it'd play out until you've actually played games on it.

---A map which doesn't 'pander to everyone's needs' simply is just a map for yourself, and not the community. Might as well just print it and play. I think many good maps have come out compromise here at CC.

Dictionary.com wrote: Something that combines qualities or elements of different things

Which is essentially what a map is. It combines your thought processes and ideas with that of the community to make the best possible map.


---As for the continents, I think your logic is seen. We'll see if anyone else wants to chime in, but this map is winding down.

---And as for it being guesswork, both Lack and I have suggested printing it off and playing with friends. Doing so will get rid of a lot of guesswork, and you will see the highlights or trouble areas.

(And as a note to all cartographers, even when a map goes live, you still may be asked to make a revision)


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:(And as a note to all cartographers, even when a map goes live, it still may be asked to be revisioned)

'revised', I think you meant! :¬P
just had too do a gramer cereckshun off me ohn!

That's what you get for typing with a broke arm...

--Andy

I was resisting, but since fluffybunnykins started it... the map may be asked? Is the map expected to pass the message on to the cartographer, the next time they see each other? :)

Well sheesh, if you want to analyze this all, please do so in PM, and out of the map thread. This is for the map, and not my grammar or spelling. Or else I'll never quench any of the maps both of you are working on.


--Andy

piff!

i don't think that actually means anything...
...oh, yeah, but to keep this on topic - I really like how this map looks! Have I said that enough times yet?

Again, Andy, sorry I broke your arm. However much I agree with kevin on compromise/consultation/pandering, I stepped over the line - I've got to work on my temper, because it's no excuse for violence.

Im very happy because we are trying something to solve that problem... I of course want play the map, and I hope he can be one of our best. I believe the visual is really great, only some changes needed, I think, in the playability part.

Cant we imagine how it would play? Of course we can, I for example, have more than 130 games in 15 maps... Many of us played even more... Sincerely, a continent with 4 borders, and that can be attacked from 8 places isnt much holdable, is it? I think we would have the same of Indochina map, where the great border between 2 continents wasted both. This is why I insist... but Im happy now, that we can have a great map

Thanks, kevin.

Okay guys. I've taken all your ideas on board, and finalized the map. Andy, it's uploaded at the URL I sent you.

I'm off on holidays for two weeks, hopefully it'll be live when I get back.

Then I can work on my next idea maybe!

Cyas!

For the Archives....here's the final version he is talking about.


I should be able to get it quenched by tomorrow if there no other immediate concerns, and I don't expect there to be.


--Andy

it´s very good

Its only me or he changed nothing? I heard something about mountains?

He mentioned them, but did not implement them. He changed the two small continents to both being 2's....so people don't get as much power from going for them instead of the larger ones.


--Andy

Well, some guys dont deserve to be helped. I will not play this map, by the way.

I will play this map, by the way.

I will... twice, at least!

Me too, I don't know why you wont play it Marv, it makes for a bit of variety.

I would like some good variety, but not this. But I believe there will be someone to play it. Even crossword "map" has some fans (well I dont know if I can say the same to Indochina). And I really think its a shame waste good graphics with a thing like this. It could be different if you have stopped to say "oh, grrrreat map", "wonderful, the best map". Its not a different gameplay, but only only errors.

Hmmm, said already I dislike it?

I will play this, but I will also say this. Because of the good graphics and how he went all old time map on it... It really doesnt FEEL like a risk map.

Where the hell are all the pubs?

I would have kept either Connaught or Munster at 3, but nonetheless I can't wait to play it!

Quenching

The Final Forge period has concluded for the Ireland Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for live play. (barring any Lack vetoes)

Conquer Club, enjoy!


--Andy