How Ron Paul can win

[DaGip]

You know, some people called the iPod the fabled "mark of the beast" so you're not different than those nutcases.

Really? I never thought the ipod was the mark. So I guess I am a little different nutcase.

Whatever. You thought Hussein cut a deal with Syria to hide the weapons so I wouldn't expect you to believe such things.

Unlike you, I have been wrong before.

Yeah but at least I don't flip-flop only because of "evidence" coming from a spamming troll...

The point is that this card isn't much different than what we have now, and it isn't the end of times.

This is where you are wrong, it is the end times and this system of things is being destroyed. The antichrist is taking advantage of this turmoil and is turning your minds in favor of slavery instead of liberty!

As I am imprisoned bodily from your New System, you will be imprisoned spirtitually...which is worse?

I listen to God's words before I ever listen to the governments! God comes before government.

[Backglass]

My God! It even has the Illuminati symbol on it!

PLEASE tell me you are joking......please.

Jay, you and Mr. Gimp are so gullibly deluded by your cult it is laughable. If I showed you a mock up of a national ID with a Muslim symbol on it would you believe that too?

I can just see you guys in the grocery checkout line. "Praise Jesus! An alien devil baby! It's true! Right here on the front page of the National Enquirer! Holy praise jesus help me lord almighty help save us from this satanic evil!"




PLEASE TRY TO FOLLOW ALONG. I KNOW you guys can do it if you try. I have faith!

Step #1 - READ the actual bill. You obviously have not.

Had you actually done this you would already know that your silly illuminati design from your wacko website is a paranoid invention. Why? Because the "RealID Act" is NOT an additional, national ID card as you like to believe and never has been.

If you read nothing else in this post, read this: "RealID" is simply your existing state drivers license with extra security built-in. Thats all. No special card. No "show me your papers". No "mark of the beast ID number". No "GPS under the skin" . (How would they get the GPS unit w/batteries under your skin anyway? After all...you DO understand GPS technology...right?

NOW...since you have read the bill you also now know that:

The regulations propose the use of the 2-D barcode already used by 46 jurisdictions (45 States and the District of Columbia).

That's right..it only mandates a barcode! What?! Where is the RFID tag part?! It is right here:

The NPRM does not specify the use of RFID cards as a minimum standard. States may independently choose to implement an RFID solution, in addition to the standard 2-D barcode, to meet their constituent’s needs.

So....now that you have actually read the bill instead of the paranoid tin foil hat ramblings of some anti-american website....What exactly will be on the RFID or Bar Code?

Each license must include, at a minimum, the person's full legal name, signature, date of birth, sex, driver's license or identification card number. It also includes a photograph of the person's face and the address of principal residence.

In other words...the exact same information that is on the front of your drivers license already. Whoop-dee-fuckin-doo. So...IF your state chooses to put an RFID tag on your DRIVERS LICENSE and this frightens your small Neanderthal mind, you smash it with a hammer. End of RFID tag...end of deluded paranoia.



Let's move on to you & your fellow sheeples other baseless claims. You claim you will not be able to:

• Drive your car
  
  This is nothing new. You must have a drivers license to do that now and RealID is nothing more than enhanced security on the driver license you already have. Remember, the RealID act simply STANDARDIZES licenses across the states and makes them much harder to forge..it is not a new or additional ID card. It is also not a national database...the states continue as they have. After all your ramblings about border security I would think you would like this.
  
• Board a plane
  
  The TSA has always required a form of government approved ID. This has not changed. Since you read the act, you also know that you will not be refused boarding if you do not have a "Real ID", but may encounter increased scrutiny. This is hardly big brother and only logical. If you tried to board a plane with your existing, de-laminating drivers license you would also be subject to increased scrutiny.
  
• train, or bus
  
  Since you read the bill, you know that the wording is "common carrier". This means "Bus" as In Greyhound and "Train" as In Amtrak. Since both require a picture ID now, this is nothing new. This does NOT refer to city buses, commuter trains or subways. You know this because you read the bill. Correct?
  
• Enter any federal building
  
  You must show government ID to enter ANY federal building today. This is nothing new. Do you believe that anyone should be able to waltz into the Pentagon or Courthouse without showing ID?
  
• Open a bank account
  
  You are required to provide a Social Security number TODAY to open a US bank account. This is nothing new. Do you believe that anyone (drug dealers/terrorists) should be able to launder money freely without paying taxes?
  
• Hold a job
  
  I am not sure what this means. Every job I have ever had asked me if I was a US citizen. I also had to provide my Social Security number for tax withholding. Therefor...again...this is nothing new. Do you believe that people should be able to hold jobs WITHOUT proving they are citizens and thereby paying taxes? Again with your rantings about illegal immigrants I would think you would embrace this.

Other things you now know SINCE YOU HAVE READ THE BILL:

"DHS leans towards encrypting the data on the barcode as a privacy protection and requests comments on how to proceed given operational considerations.will use common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements".

Yes that could mean RFID could be used should your (our) state decide to use it, but it could also be one of the many complex barcoding systems that exist today. Speaking of which, look at your NY vehicle registration on your windshield tomorrow morning on way to work Jay. OMG! A mark of the beast bar-code!


Now...quit clouding your small mind with these fictitious, paranoid induced websites. Turn off Art Bell and go to sleep. The big brother devil alien babies are not coming to get you and put you in work camps.

This is where you are wrong, it is the end times and this system of things is being destroyed. The antichrist is taking advantage of this turmoil and is turning your minds in favor of slavery instead of liberty!

As I am imprisoned bodily from your New System, you will be imprisoned spirtitually...which is worse?

I listen to God's words before I ever listen to the governments! God comes before government.

Please...step away from the Kool-Aid. Every gullible delusion soaked religion thinks that THEIR generation is the end of times. It has been going on for thousands of years and will go on as long as we have cults.

You should seriously consider psychological help before you do something stupid.

[Serbia]

Thank you, Backglass!

[muy_thaiguy]

Can't believe I'm saying this, but Backglass is right for the most part, (don't wan't turn this into ANOTHER religous debate), people (ex. jay and gip) overreact to something before reading up on it first. As for the "ilumanati" symbols on the dollar bill and such, look it up on a history site, it will explain the origins of it.

[Backglass]

people (ex. jay and gip) overreact to something before reading up on it first.

Exactly. Usually in one of those "Forward this to EVERYONE YOU KNOW! The TRUTH must be TOLD!" emails.

[jay_a2j]

My God! It even has the Illuminati symbol on it!

PLEASE tell me you are joking......please.

Jay, you and Mr. Gimp are so gullibly deluded by your cult it is laughable. If I showed you a mock up of a national ID with a Muslim symbol on it would you believe that too?

I can just see you guys in the grocery checkout line. "Praise Jesus! An alien devil baby! It's true! Right here on the front page of the National Enquirer! Holy praise jesus help me lord almighty help save us from this satanic evil!"




PLEASE TRY TO FOLLOW ALONG. I KNOW you guys can do it if you try. I have faith!

Step #1 - READ the actual bill. You obviously have not.

Had you actually done this you would already know that your silly illuminati design from your wacko website is a paranoid invention. Why? Because the "RealID Act" is NOT an additional, national ID card as you like to believe and never has been.

If you read nothing else in this post, read this: "RealID" is simply your existing state drivers license with extra security built-in. Thats all. No special card. No "show me your papers". No "mark of the beast ID number". No "GPS under the skin" . (How would they get the GPS unit w/batteries under your skin anyway? After all...you DO understand GPS technology...right?

NOW...since you have read the bill you also now know that:

The regulations propose the use of the 2-D barcode already used by 46 jurisdictions (45 States and the District of Columbia).

That's right..it only mandates a barcode! What?! Where is the RFID tag part?! It is right here:

The NPRM does not specify the use of RFID cards as a minimum standard. States may independently choose to implement an RFID solution, in addition to the standard 2-D barcode, to meet their constituent’s needs.

So....now that you have actually read the bill instead of the paranoid tin foil hat ramblings of some anti-american website....What exactly will be on the RFID or Bar Code?

Each license must include, at a minimum, the person's full legal name, signature, date of birth, sex, driver's license or identification card number. It also includes a photograph of the person's face and the address of principal residence.

In other words...the exact same information that is on the front of your drivers license already. Whoop-dee-fuckin-doo. So...IF your state chooses to put an RFID tag on your DRIVERS LICENSE and this frightens your small Neanderthal mind, you smash it with a hammer. End of RFID tag...end of deluded paranoia.



Let's move on to you & your fellow sheeples other baseless claims. You claim you will not be able to:

• Drive your car
  
  This is nothing new. You must have a drivers license to do that now and RealID is nothing more than enhanced security on the driver license you already have. Remember, the RealID act simply STANDARDIZES licenses across the states and makes them much harder to forge..it is not a new or additional ID card. It is also not a national database...the states continue as they have. After all your ramblings about border security I would think you would like this.
  
• Board a plane
  
  The TSA has always required a form of government approved ID. This has not changed. Since you read the act, you also know that you will not be refused boarding if you do not have a "Real ID", but may encounter increased scrutiny. This is hardly big brother and only logical. If you tried to board a plane with your existing, de-laminating drivers license you would also be subject to increased scrutiny.
  
• train, or bus
  
  Since you read the bill, you know that the wording is "common carrier". This means "Bus" as In Greyhound and "Train" as In Amtrak. Since both require a picture ID now, this is nothing new. This does NOT refer to city buses, commuter trains or subways. You know this because you read the bill. Correct?
  
• Enter any federal building
  
  You must show government ID to enter ANY federal building today. This is nothing new. Do you believe that anyone should be able to waltz into the Pentagon or Courthouse without showing ID?
  
• Open a bank account
  
  You are required to provide a Social Security number TODAY to open a US bank account. This is nothing new. Do you believe that anyone (drug dealers/terrorists) should be able to launder money freely without paying taxes?
  
• Hold a job
  
  I am not sure what this means. Every job I have ever had asked me if I was a US citizen. I also had to provide my Social Security number for tax withholding. Therefor...again...this is nothing new. Do you believe that people should be able to hold jobs WITHOUT proving they are citizens and thereby paying taxes? Again with your rantings about illegal immigrants I would think you would embrace this.

Other things you now know SINCE YOU HAVE READ THE BILL:

"DHS leans towards encrypting the data on the barcode as a privacy protection and requests comments on how to proceed given operational considerations.will use common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements".

Yes that could mean RFID could be used should your (our) state decide to use it, but it could also be one of the many complex barcoding systems that exist today. Speaking of which, look at your NY vehicle registration on your windshield tomorrow morning on way to work Jay. OMG! A mark of the beast bar-code!


Now...quit clouding your small mind with these fictitious, paranoid induced websites. Turn off Art Bell and go to sleep. The big brother devil alien babies are not coming to get you and put you in work camps.

This is where you are wrong, it is the end times and this system of things is being destroyed. The antichrist is taking advantage of this turmoil and is turning your minds in favor of slavery instead of liberty!

As I am imprisoned bodily from your New System, you will be imprisoned spirtitually...which is worse?

I listen to God's words before I ever listen to the governments! God comes before government.

Please...step away from the Kool-Aid. Every gullible delusion soaked religion thinks that THEIR generation is the end of times. It has been going on for thousands of years and will go on as long as we have cults.

You should seriously consider psychological help before you do something stupid.

You forgot:



* The police will be able to drive by wherever you are and scan your Real ID bringing up all your info. on his monitor. THIS ISN'T COMMUNIST CHINA!


You get your Real ID's, be naive ...by all means. WE ARE HEADED FOR A POLICE STATE! Believe it or not, your call. I choose to recognize my liberties being taken away, as do many others. Sheep way, I'm going the opposite way. Enjoy your bondage. You have been warned.


BTW am am very well aware that that symbol is an "all seeing eye" adopted from ancient Egypt, I believe and it represents a god of ancient days.... not the God of the Bible.

[Frigidus]

My God! It even has the Illuminati symbol on it!

PLEASE tell me you are joking......please.

Jay, you and Mr. Gimp are so gullibly deluded by your cult it is laughable. If I showed you a mock up of a national ID with a Muslim symbol on it would you believe that too?

I can just see you guys in the grocery checkout line. "Praise Jesus! An alien devil baby! It's true! Right here on the front page of the National Enquirer! Holy praise jesus help me lord almighty help save us from this satanic evil!"




PLEASE TRY TO FOLLOW ALONG. I KNOW you guys can do it if you try. I have faith!

Step #1 - READ the actual bill. You obviously have not.

Had you actually done this you would already know that your silly illuminati design from your wacko website is a paranoid invention. Why? Because the "RealID Act" is NOT an additional, national ID card as you like to believe and never has been.

If you read nothing else in this post, read this: "RealID" is simply your existing state drivers license with extra security built-in. Thats all. No special card. No "show me your papers". No "mark of the beast ID number". No "GPS under the skin" . (How would they get the GPS unit w/batteries under your skin anyway? After all...you DO understand GPS technology...right?

NOW...since you have read the bill you also now know that:

The regulations propose the use of the 2-D barcode already used by 46 jurisdictions (45 States and the District of Columbia).

That's right..it only mandates a barcode! What?! Where is the RFID tag part?! It is right here:

The NPRM does not specify the use of RFID cards as a minimum standard. States may independently choose to implement an RFID solution, in addition to the standard 2-D barcode, to meet their constituent’s needs.

So....now that you have actually read the bill instead of the paranoid tin foil hat ramblings of some anti-american website....What exactly will be on the RFID or Bar Code?

Each license must include, at a minimum, the person's full legal name, signature, date of birth, sex, driver's license or identification card number. It also includes a photograph of the person's face and the address of principal residence.

In other words...the exact same information that is on the front of your drivers license already. Whoop-dee-fuckin-doo. So...IF your state chooses to put an RFID tag on your DRIVERS LICENSE and this frightens your small Neanderthal mind, you smash it with a hammer. End of RFID tag...end of deluded paranoia.



Let's move on to you & your fellow sheeples other baseless claims. You claim you will not be able to:

• Drive your car
  
  This is nothing new. You must have a drivers license to do that now and RealID is nothing more than enhanced security on the driver license you already have. Remember, the RealID act simply STANDARDIZES licenses across the states and makes them much harder to forge..it is not a new or additional ID card. It is also not a national database...the states continue as they have. After all your ramblings about border security I would think you would like this.
  
• Board a plane
  
  The TSA has always required a form of government approved ID. This has not changed. Since you read the act, you also know that you will not be refused boarding if you do not have a "Real ID", but may encounter increased scrutiny. This is hardly big brother and only logical. If you tried to board a plane with your existing, de-laminating drivers license you would also be subject to increased scrutiny.
  
• train, or bus
  
  Since you read the bill, you know that the wording is "common carrier". This means "Bus" as In Greyhound and "Train" as In Amtrak. Since both require a picture ID now, this is nothing new. This does NOT refer to city buses, commuter trains or subways. You know this because you read the bill. Correct?
  
• Enter any federal building
  
  You must show government ID to enter ANY federal building today. This is nothing new. Do you believe that anyone should be able to waltz into the Pentagon or Courthouse without showing ID?
  
• Open a bank account
  
  You are required to provide a Social Security number TODAY to open a US bank account. This is nothing new. Do you believe that anyone (drug dealers/terrorists) should be able to launder money freely without paying taxes?
  
• Hold a job
  
  I am not sure what this means. Every job I have ever had asked me if I was a US citizen. I also had to provide my Social Security number for tax withholding. Therefor...again...this is nothing new. Do you believe that people should be able to hold jobs WITHOUT proving they are citizens and thereby paying taxes? Again with your rantings about illegal immigrants I would think you would embrace this.

Other things you now know SINCE YOU HAVE READ THE BILL:

"DHS leans towards encrypting the data on the barcode as a privacy protection and requests comments on how to proceed given operational considerations.will use common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements".

Yes that could mean RFID could be used should your (our) state decide to use it, but it could also be one of the many complex barcoding systems that exist today. Speaking of which, look at your NY vehicle registration on your windshield tomorrow morning on way to work Jay. OMG! A mark of the beast bar-code!


Now...quit clouding your small mind with these fictitious, paranoid induced websites. Turn off Art Bell and go to sleep. The big brother devil alien babies are not coming to get you and put you in work camps.

This is where you are wrong, it is the end times and this system of things is being destroyed. The antichrist is taking advantage of this turmoil and is turning your minds in favor of slavery instead of liberty!

As I am imprisoned bodily from your New System, you will be imprisoned spirtitually...which is worse?

I listen to God's words before I ever listen to the governments! God comes before government.

Please...step away from the Kool-Aid. Every gullible delusion soaked religion thinks that THEIR generation is the end of times. It has been going on for thousands of years and will go on as long as we have cults.

You should seriously consider psychological help before you do something stupid.

You forgot:



* The police will be able to drive by wherever you are and scan your Real ID bringing up all your info. on his monitor. THIS ISN'T COMMUNIST CHINA!


You get your Real ID's, be naive ...by all means. WE ARE HEADED FOR A POLICE STATE! Believe it or not, your call. I choose to recognize my liberties being taken away, as do many others. Sheep way, I'm going the opposite way. Enjoy your bondage. You have been warned.


BTW am am very well aware that that symbol is an "all seeing eye" adopted from ancient Egypt, I believe and it represents a god of ancient days.... not the God of the Bible.

So instead of looking at your ID and reading the information they scan it to make sure it isn't a forgery? This is a non-issue...you at least have a point when you say that most of the presidential candidates are in corporate pockets...fight when you have an issue to fight over.

[unriggable]

BTW am am very well aware that that symbol is an "all seeing eye" adopted from ancient Egypt, I believe and it represents a god of ancient days.... not the God of the Bible.

Oh my god! It supports one god over the other? Holy shit! We're all going to die!

They're all the fucking same, get over it.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Backglass, while I'm not jumping to the conclusion that we're headed toward an Orwellian state within the next decade, I think the point jay is making, when stripped of its alarmist tone and conspiracy theories, is perfectly valid:

The fact that the federal government is authorizing state governments to implement RFIDs is a clear step in the direction of a police state. Something that can be argued concretely, however, is that it's a violation of constitutional rights. The Federal government is not supposed to condone state governments using these sorts of measures, and the fact that they are is a case in point for the growing trend of ignoring the Constitution as a legal document and using it more as a museum piece.

[heavycola]

I will stand with my brothers and sisters in the detention camps, and the rest of you will be on the outside serving the evil of the world.

I will be beaten along with my brothers and sisters, while you sit safe in your homes watching MTV and playing video games.

I will be tortured along with my brothers and sisters, all while you pay your illegal income tax and receive your little electronic implant.

I will be murderd side by side with my brothers and sisters for our belief in what is right, and you will live your lives in immorality and darkness as the beacon of Liberty dims all around you.

Just when you think the madness in here has peaked, it ratches up another notch or ten.

Oh you brave, brave martyrs. Everyone else is going to be too stupid when the men in dark suits come and inject microchips into their foreheads. Everyone except you paranoid weirdos with your medieval self-persecution fantasies.



BTW is anyone up for this? We ambush a ron paul rally with searchlights, plenty of dudes in dark suits and sunglasses, and start reading bits of revelation through a PA. They'll go nuts!

[comic boy]

Scared stiff of being controled by a microchip but over the moon at being controled by an ancient book

[got tonkaed]

Backglass, while I'm not jumping to the conclusion that we're headed toward an Orwellian state within the next decade, I think the point jay is making, when stripped of its alarmist tone and conspiracy theories, is perfectly valid:

The fact that the federal government is authorizing state governments to implement RFIDs is a clear step in the direction of a police state. Something that can be argued concretely, however, is that it's a violation of constitutional rights. The Federal government is not supposed to condone state governments using these sorts of measures, and the fact that they are is a case in point for the growing trend of ignoring the Constitution as a legal document and using it more as a museum piece.

Strictly speaking, where in the constitution does it say that the federal government cannot support some form of state commerce, which i would assume proponents of RFID tags would start their constitutionality debate on?

Im more curious than anything, im becoming increasingly convinced you can argue just about anything around the constitution at the present time. It doesnt violate any clear amendment or provision that i can think of offhand.

[unriggable]

Backglass, while I'm not jumping to the conclusion that we're headed toward an Orwellian state within the next decade, I think the point jay is making, when stripped of its alarmist tone and conspiracy theories, is perfectly valid:

The fact that the federal government is authorizing state governments to implement RFIDs is a clear step in the direction of a police state. Something that can be argued concretely, however, is that it's a violation of constitutional rights. The Federal government is not supposed to condone state governments using these sorts of measures, and the fact that they are is a case in point for the growing trend of ignoring the Constitution as a legal document and using it more as a museum piece.

You realize we have a long way to go before we get to a police state right? I understand you're point of view, but for once I'm going to agree with the conservatives and say that this helps much more than it hurts. Warantless wiretapping, patriot act, those were large strides, but these are likely to get shot down after Bush gets out of office. So RFID, unless you're a wanted criminal, is not going to be a problem. For any of you guys.

[luns101]

I really don't appreciate you posting my baby pics on the internet, Backglass!

[OnlyAmbrose]

Strictly speaking, where in the constitution does it say that the federal government cannot support some form of state commerce, which i would assume proponents of RFID tags would start their constitutionality debate on?

Im more curious than anything, im becoming increasingly convinced you can argue just about anything around the constitution at the present time. It doesnt violate any clear amendment or provision that i can think of offhand.

The 6th Amendment says this:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

ID would fall under the category of "papers". You can't be ID'd without a warrant or a reasonable cause.

RFID gives the police the ability not only to ID you without warrant or reasonable cause, but also to do so without anyone ever knowing. There is no way to hold the government accountable.

And THAT is completely against the message of the Constitution. The American government was intentionally set up to be weak and ineffective, and to make the government accountable for EVERYTHING. For instance, the Federal Reserve is, in my opinion, against the spirit of the Constitution, because they can print money and not be held accountable for it (I've made this case several times). RFID is the same in my mind.

It violates a very clear amendment, but more importantly, it blatantly and obviously violates the spirit in which the Constitution was written. THAT is what sets Ron Paul apart from the other candidates. Luns can be witty about it all he wants, the fact is that the other candidates do NOT make an attempt to follow the spirit of the Constitution; rather they treat it as a museum piece, something which can be easily worked around and loophole-d through. I don't want a candidate like that in office, I want a candidate who will respect the spirit of the Constitution.

You realize we have a long way to go before we get to a police state right? I understand you're point of view, but for once I'm going to agree with the conservatives and say that this helps much more than it hurts. Warantless wiretapping, patriot act, those were large strides, but these are likely to get shot down after Bush gets out of office. So RFID, unless you're a wanted criminal, is not going to be a problem. For any of you guys.

It is not a practical problem for me, it is an ideological problem for me. And let's face it, the world is rife with ideological problems right now. We're not losing the war in Iraq for any practical reasons, we're losing it for ideological reasons. And this is an ideological step in the absolutely wrong direction. No, I am not afraid that the government is going to be keeping track of my every move, but I do NOT like the fact that they have the ability to and NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR IT.

I believe in a democracy in which the people can hold their leaders accountable for what they do. That is the spirit of the Constitution. And the reason I so desperately want Ron Paul to win is because he attacks these issues of accountability. He wants to make the government accountable for its spending so that inflation will cease. He wants the government to lose its ability to violate 6th amendment rights without being held accountable for it.

/rant

[jay_a2j]

THIS JUST IN!

[OnlyAmbrose]

Jay, that isn't helping -.-

[Frigidus]

Jay, that isn't helping -.-

It's pretty impressive though. Phoenix Wright knows all.

[Backglass]

The police will be able to drive by wherever you are and scan your Real ID bringing up all your info. on his monitor. THIS ISN'T COMMUNIST CHINA!

No, it isn't.

Please go to Google, type in "How does RFID work" and read up. Come back and continue debating when you do as the type of RFID transponders that might be embedded in your drivers license cannot do that...even in your fairy tale world.

Since you are a New Yorker I am sure you are familiar with EZ-Pass for the thruway...correct? It is a RFID system. Have you seen how close to the gate you must get before it raises and debits your toll? And that is with a LARGE plastic transponder! A tiny chip in your wallet is just not capable of reflecting the power needed to do what you you claim.

You get your Real ID's, be naive ...by all means. WE ARE HEADED FOR A POLICE STATE! Believe it or not...blah, blah, blah <snip religious paranoia>

This is where it gets REALLY funny people.

Jay...please do the following:

1. Remove your New York State drivers license from your wallet.
2. Turn it over.
3. Actually LOOK at it.
4. See that mish-mash of lines at the bottom? Do you know what it is? It is a RealID 2-D Barcode.

YOU ALREADY HAVE REAL-ID JAY. New York state is already 100% RealID compliant.



Please let us know when you cut it up and stop driving. After all, you "are going the other way"...right?

[jay_a2j]

[OnlyAmbrose]

Just in case GT and unriggable missed it in this struggle of nonsensical posts, here's my most recent post on the matter:

Strictly speaking, where in the constitution does it say that the federal government cannot support some form of state commerce, which i would assume proponents of RFID tags would start their constitutionality debate on?

Im more curious than anything, im becoming increasingly convinced you can argue just about anything around the constitution at the present time. It doesnt violate any clear amendment or provision that i can think of offhand.

The 6th Amendment says this:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

ID would fall under the category of "papers". You can't be ID'd without a warrant or a reasonable cause.

RFID gives the police the ability not only to ID you without warrant or reasonable cause, but also to do so without anyone ever knowing. There is no way to hold the government accountable.

And THAT is completely against the message of the Constitution. The American government was intentionally set up to be weak and ineffective, and to make the government accountable for EVERYTHING. For instance, the Federal Reserve is, in my opinion, against the spirit of the Constitution, because they can print money and not be held accountable for it (I've made this case several times). RFID is the same in my mind.

It violates a very clear amendment, but more importantly, it blatantly and obviously violates the spirit in which the Constitution was written. THAT is what sets Ron Paul apart from the other candidates. Luns can be witty about it all he wants, the fact is that the other candidates do NOT make an attempt to follow the spirit of the Constitution; rather they treat it as a museum piece, something which can be easily worked around and loophole-d through. I don't want a candidate like that in office, I want a candidate who will respect the spirit of the Constitution.

You realize we have a long way to go before we get to a police state right? I understand you're point of view, but for once I'm going to agree with the conservatives and say that this helps much more than it hurts. Warantless wiretapping, patriot act, those were large strides, but these are likely to get shot down after Bush gets out of office. So RFID, unless you're a wanted criminal, is not going to be a problem. For any of you guys.

It is not a practical problem for me, it is an ideological problem for me. And let's face it, the world is rife with ideological problems right now. We're not losing the war in Iraq for any practical reasons, we're losing it for ideological reasons. And this is an ideological step in the absolutely wrong direction. No, I am not afraid that the government is going to be keeping track of my every move, but I do NOT like the fact that they have the ability to and NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR IT.

I believe in a democracy in which the people can hold their leaders accountable for what they do. That is the spirit of the Constitution. And the reason I so desperately want Ron Paul to win is because he attacks these issues of accountability. He wants to make the government accountable for its spending so that inflation will cease. He wants the government to lose its ability to violate 6th amendment rights without being held accountable for it.

/rant

[Ham]

THIS JUST IN!

Im all for Ron Paul, but please please please no more links of this caliber AJ !!!!!

[unriggable]

There's a difference between being ID'd and being searched. Once they cross that line then I'm against it. Until then, whatever.

[Dancing Mustard]

The police will be able to drive by wherever you are and scan your Real ID bringing up all your info. on his monitor.

What's the problem with that? Criminals will have nowhere to hide. We have nothing to fear unless we've done illegal stuff.

I seriously don't get why you're so paranoid.

[AlgyTaylor]

There's a difference between being ID'd and being searched. Once they cross that line then I'm against it. Until then, whatever.

I'd say there wasn't. Say if I go to a club, I think it's fair game that I'm searched (for illicit substances/weapons) or ID'd (proof of age).

In the street, by a policeman, I would say that either being searched or ID'd is essentially treating you as a criminal, that you somehow do not have the right to walk down the street.

To me there's very, very little difference.