Iraq Statistics

[comic boy]

To all the above posts, I agree with you that WWII is irrelevant, but if somebody called my son (don't have one, whatever) a murdering, lapdog, chump I'd get pretty pissed too.

Agreed but its pretty daft to think that ordinary soldiers ( yes even marines ) have the least idea why they are in a particular conflict.
Certain wars,such as WW2, are self evident but most are for reasons that few of us will ever know or understand.

[Napoleon Ier]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

[got tonkaed]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

if you cant see the problem with that kind of with us or against us rhetoric, it explains why frequently you are not being engaged in debate on other issues.

also nonbunga, while i think most observers would realize for a while we werent really getting very much in oil out of the deal, nor were we before hand....how exactly does that affect the whole defense contract argument, people are making a sizeable amount of this war.

i guess i just dont see where your going with that.

[Snorri1234]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

Ah yes, the old "If you dissapprove of the US you must be a towelhead-loving, islam-worshipping communist."-argument.
That's a hard one.

[bedub1]

He didn't write these stats himself...it is e'mail spam! I got that spam a few years ago, tries to make the invasion and murder of innocent Iraqis seem well worth it...phuk off, BushLover!

LMFAO! Why yes it is e-mail spam.....so I'm guessing the e-mail is from 2002 as the other guy said. I only added the top 2 lines as I have a friend that was helping to build the sewer systems, so am well aware it's a valid fact. I actually have photos of little iraqy (sp?) children playing in sewage in bare feet.

But whats the most important, is we have having a great conversation. Well, until some personal attacks occurred...i think it's going downhill now. Like the following is not appropriate. IMO

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

[comic boy]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

More ignorance and abuse from the self styled intelectual.

[sangfroid]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

More ignorance and abuse from the self styled intelectual.

He sometimes manages to put half an argument together and then says things like that, it's very sad!

[heavycola]

Nappy is undoubtedly a deeply disturbed individual.

Re: OP -

Why don't we list all the amazing stuff that oxfam does in africa, or that Operation Raleigh volunteers do in Borneo, for example? They build schools, lay sewers, roads, dig wells.. and have been every day for years and years.

is it because they don't drop clusterbombs on the kids before they build 'em a school? i think it might be.

Doesn't matter who you are or what you thought at the time, this war is and always has been a tawdry, soiled, phoney war fought on the basis of a tissue of half-truths and veiled corruption. Sure troops there are doing good things, just as surely as that list is half bullshit and as surely as news from the front line is so drenched in morale-boosting propagnada it makes rush limbaugh look like the BBC.

You people hollering and whooping and wiping the red, white n blue tears from your patriotic eyes because this beautiful exercise in liberation and western values has been such a success - you are blinded and best, fucked up at worst.

[Napoleon Ier]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

More ignorance and abuse from the self styled intelectual.

He sometimes manages to put half an argument together and then says things like that, it's very sad!

I just cannot tolerate the fact that someone's son is being mortared and shot at so radiojake can have his freedom, and he then calls him an evil murderer. It is just disgusting.

As for HC, other than repeatedly insult me, do you want to engage in civilized debate any time, or you just going to express your frustration on me

[radiojake]

I just cannot tolerate the fact that someone's son is being mortared and shot at so radiojake can have his freedom, and he then calls him an evil murderer. It is just disgusting.

But he isn't in Iraq for my freedom, he isn't in Iraq for ANYONE'S freedom. And from now on I'll hold further judgement because I don't actually know if he has murdered anyone, yet. (though, if he really is one of the 'best marines in the world' as his dad claims, he probably had to kill people in his training)

If you believe the war in Iraq is about anyone's freedom then surely you are diluded Napoleon

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

This is hilarious. Didn't you claim in a previous thread that you weren't racist or a bigot?

EDIT: Why don't you bring up WWII again to try to justify your points, it seems to be the done thing here -

[unriggable]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

More ignorance and abuse from the self styled intelectual.

He sometimes manages to put half an argument together and then says things like that, it's very sad!

I just cannot tolerate the fact that someone's son is being mortared and shot at so radiojake can have his freedom, and he then calls him an evil murderer. It is just disgusting.

As for HC, other than repeatedly insult me, do you want to engage in civilized debate any time, or you just going to express your frustration on me

I'm pretty sure Iraq has made it harder for you to be free, now that we are fighting the war at home as well. How can you be free when you are being spied on?

[PhatJoey]

To all the above posts, I agree with you that WWII is irrelevant, but if somebody called my son (don't have one, whatever) a murdering, lapdog, chump I'd get pretty pissed too.

Agreed but its pretty daft to think that ordinary soldiers ( yes even marines ) have the least idea why they are in a particular conflict.
Certain wars,such as WW2, are self evident but most are for reasons that few of us will ever know or understand.

Actually, it's the guys on the ground who know the MOST about why we are there. They saw the results of what was going on before we got there and they struggle against the results of those actions by the past regimes every single day. It is not easy to teach an entire nation right from wrong and get them to stand up for themselves so that we can leave and return to the lives and families that were left behind.

It's just insulting that there are those who wouldn't lift a finger to help someone in their own neighborhood, let alone risk their life for others by fighting for their freedom, and yet will still come to forums like this and make stupid remarks about things they know absolutely nothing about. Except what they read on some stupid website somewhere or watch on Al-Jazeera.

It is obvious that they themselves are ungrateful. The U.S. has pulled their butts out of the fire so many times and they did not complain then. But now we are pulling the Iraqis out of the fire and those very same people just whine and complain about how "evil" we are for doing so.

Or perhaps they are really just bigots and don't think we should be helping Muslims.

Or perhaps they are just jealous that their own nation is only providing a token force to help out while we have leaders strong enough to do what is right instead of what is popular. And theirs just bow and scrape to the majority in their own countries.

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

[bradleybadly]

Actually, it's the guys on the ground who know the MOST about why we are there. They saw the results of what was going on before we got there and they struggle against the results of those actions by the past regimes every single day. It is not easy to teach an entire nation right from wrong and get them to stand up for themselves so that we can leave and return to the lives and families that were left behind.

It's just insulting that there are those who wouldn't lift a finger to help someone in their own neighborhood, let alone risk their life for others by fighting for their freedom, and yet will still come to forums like this and make stupid remarks about things they know absolutely nothing about. Except what they read on some stupid website somewhere or watch on Al-Jazeera.

It is obvious that they themselves are ungrateful. The U.S. has pulled their butts out of the fire so many times and they did not complain then. But now we are pulling the Iraqis out of the fire and those very same people just whine and complain about how "evil" we are for doing so.

Or perhaps they are really just bigots and don't think we should be helping Muslims.

Or perhaps they are just jealous that their own nation is only providing a token force to help out while we have leaders strong enough to do what is right instead of what is popular. And theirs just bow and scrape to the majority in their own countries.

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

I think you're arguing against the insane here, sir. It's too late for those who have this bullshit view of the U.S. Better just let them continue jacking off to Das Kapital.

[PhatJoey]

I think you are right.

[got tonkaed]

while i may disagree with some of the things you said in the first paragraph or at least question it some....i dont think most people make light of what anyones family sacrifices in having troops abroad, in the line of fire.

If i may make a small aside though, its not really necessary to do some of the bashing about capital there. Seemingly it would be difficult enough to debate something that is clearly going to be closer to your heart than a lot of other issues. To formalize opposition as simply as the last few posts do there, isnt really helpful to anyone.

[radiojake]

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

Man. Diluded.

I'm not going to insult, because it achieves nothing. (I didn't consider calling your son a glorofied murderer an insult, I considered in truth)

The US is the beacon of freedom and hope for humanity??? You have got to be kidding me. Considering the US has built it's empire on the back of slaves (and continues to run on the back of third world labour) - It's only freedom if your white. (go ask some North American Indians what they think the USA stands for, and it is THEIR country after all)

I guess once you are hypnotised by the stars and stripes there's not much hope really.

[radiojake]

It is not easy to teach an entire nation right from wrong and get them to stand up for themselves so that we can leave and return to the lives and families that were left behind.

Only just noticed this. So the US is a measuring stick for all that is right and wrong? What exactly are you going to 'teach' Iraq. I'm sure it'll involve another US backed leader to be put in charge. I'm sure we all remember Rumsfeild shaking Husseins hand in '84.

[Neutrino]

Actually, it's the guys on the ground who know the MOST about why we are there. They saw the results of what was going on before we got there and they struggle against the results of those actions by the past regimes every single day. It is not easy to teach an entire nation right from wrong and get them to stand up for themselves so that we can leave and return to the lives and families that were left behind.

Actually, it's not easy to force an entire country, with thousands of years of it's own culture, to become Westernised against it's will.

It's just insulting that there are those who wouldn't lift a finger to help someone in their own neighborhood, let alone risk their life for others by fighting for their freedom, and yet will still come to forums like this and make stupid remarks about things they know absolutely nothing about. Except what they read on some stupid website somewhere or watch on Al-Jazeera.

It's good that you have an intimate understanding of the personalities of all the people who have differing opinions to yourself and know exactly what they will and will not do. If you didn't, you might have to resort to actual reasoning, rather than accusing them to be freedom-hating, Al-Jazeera watching, filthy excuses for human beings who "won't lift a finger to help someone in their own neighbourhood".

OhMyGod! Jay was right! THEY really do spy on us at all times!

It is obvious that they themselves are ungrateful. The U.S. has pulled their butts out of the fire so many times and they did not complain then. But now we are pulling the Iraqis out of the fire and those very same people just whine and complain about how "evil" we are for doing so.

This one confuses me. Apparently I am actually an entire continent. Sorry to burst your bubble, Joey, but were I a multi-billion ton continent, with an area measured in the hundreds of square kilometres, I would find it rather difficult to operate a keyboard.
I am not Australia. You are not the US. The number of times The Avatar of Freedom and Goodness, better known as the US is has "pulled Australia's butt out of the fire" is utterly irrelivant.

Or perhaps they are really just bigots and don't think we should be helping Muslims.

See two responses up.

Or perhaps they are just jealous that their own nation is only providing a token force to help out while we have leaders strong enough to do what is right instead of what is popular. And theirs just bow and scrape to the majority in their own countries.

Of course. Who could accuse any US politician of bowing to public pressure. I think it is quite clear that US politicians, and in fact, all US citizens are utterly perfect and uncorruptable in every way.

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

You know, I asked this time and time again in the 4th of July thread a while ago and I never got a real answer. It's been a few months, so I might as well try again.

What trait, possessed only by US citizens, makes the US the "best" nation in the world.

I admit, I'm not expecting a very comprehensible answer, but one can always hope.



P.S."extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed"?

What about Zimbabwe, who's dictator has completely screwed their economy? What about Rwanda, locked in bloody civil war? What about Sudan, where ethnic cleansing takes place every day?

These places need a huge invasion force more than Iraq ever did, yet the US government effectively does nothing.

[sangfroid]

We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity.

There's just so much that could be said, but I won't waste my breath since you've clearly stated that you have no interest in what anyone thinks or says. However, I should point out that you're frothing at the mouth!!

[silvanricky]

If i may make a small aside though, its not really necessary to do some of the bashing about capital there. Seemingly it would be difficult enough to debate something that is clearly going to be closer to your heart than a lot of other issues. To formalize opposition as simply as the last few posts do there, isnt really helpful to anyone.

Usually I like your posts gottonkaed but you have clearly taken a side on this argument. The deliberate changing of the subject and insults hurled at PhatJoey by your side aren't any better so please don't pretend you're taking the high ground.

Radiojake did some specific name-calling of his own against PhatJoey that you don't condemn. He called PhatJoey's son a chump and a glorified licensed-murderer. Then he later says that he doesn't consider that an insult. Then he only focuses on the part of our history where we had slavery and totally ignores anything good we've done.

For an encore we get some bullshit from Neutrino from high atop his self-righteous throne about extending help to the world. We give so much aid to the rest of the world it's ridiculous. I for one say we should be taking care of our own people.

So stop pretending like only one side of this argument is putting out insults. Be consistent.

Neutrino & Radiojake - GFY

[joecoolfrog]

To all the above posts, I agree with you that WWII is irrelevant, but if somebody called my son (don't have one, whatever) a murdering, lapdog, chump I'd get pretty pissed too.

Agreed but its pretty daft to think that ordinary soldiers ( yes even marines ) have the least idea why they are in a particular conflict.
Certain wars,such as WW2, are self evident but most are for reasons that few of us will ever know or understand.

Actually, it's the guys on the ground who know the MOST about why we are there. They saw the results of what was going on before we got there and they struggle against the results of those actions by the past regimes every single day. It is not easy to teach an entire nation right from wrong and get them to stand up for themselves so that we can leave and return to the lives and families that were left behind.

It's just insulting that there are those who wouldn't lift a finger to help someone in their own neighborhood, let alone risk their life for others by fighting for their freedom, and yet will still come to forums like this and make stupid remarks about things they know absolutely nothing about. Except what they read on some stupid website somewhere or watch on Al-Jazeera.

It is obvious that they themselves are ungrateful. The U.S. has pulled their butts out of the fire so many times and they did not complain then. But now we are pulling the Iraqis out of the fire and those very same people just whine and complain about how "evil" we are for doing so.

Or perhaps they are really just bigots and don't think we should be helping Muslims.

Or perhaps they are just jealous that their own nation is only providing a token force to help out while we have leaders strong enough to do what is right instead of what is popular. And theirs just bow and scrape to the majority in their own countries.

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

I congratulate you for being able to construct any sort of post, miserable as it may be, it cannot be easy with your head so far up your arse !

[radiojake]

Radiojake did some specific name-calling of his own against PhatJoey that you don't condemn. He called PhatJoey's son a chump and a glorified licensed-murderer. Then he later says that he doesn't consider that an insult.

Well, i stand my ground. Any soilders (or marines! sorry phatjoey!) in Iraq at the moment are chumps for righting a corrupt war. Last time I checked, I'm pretty sure soilders (and marines! sorry phatjoey!) have a license to kill. So wouldn't that mean they're a licensed murderer. It's pretty simple

Then he only focuses on the part of our history where we had slavery and totally ignores anything good we've done.

Well I felt inclined to rebut Phatjoey's stance that the US is great and righteous and 'the beacon of freedom and the hope of humanity' - So I pointed out the fact that the entire empire that is the US was built on the backs of slaves. - Pretty simple really, only bought it up to call out phatjoey

For an encore we get some bullshit from Neutrino from high atop his self-righteous throne about extending help to the world. We give so much aid to the rest of the world it's ridiculous. I for one say we should be taking care of our own people.

I agree, so pull the troops out of Iraq and stop fucking with the Middle East (which is ironically just stirring up MORE anti-US and anti-western sentiment)

Also, the amount of aid 'donated' by the US is only fair, considering the amount of money American companies directly make off third world labour (you know, all those factories in Central America and Asia, paying 25cents and hour, but then selling the shoes for over $100.. massive mark up that.. lots of profit)

Neutrino & Radiojake - GFY

English please

[comic boy]

Isnt blind patriotism a wonderful thing
Bunch of trailer park reservists head off to the cradle of civilisation to educate them...you couldnt make it up

[Snorri1234]

Radiojake did some specific name-calling of his own against PhatJoey that you don't condemn. He called PhatJoey's son a chump and a glorified licensed-murderer. Then he later says that he doesn't consider that an insult. Then he only focuses on the part of our history where we had slavery and totally ignores anything good we've done.

Because PhatJoey was ignoring anything bad you've done.
The USA isn't the epitome of freedom and goodness in the world. There is some bad shit and some good shit there, and you cannot ignore the bad things.

For an encore we get some bullshit from Neutrino from high atop his self-righteous throne about extending help to the world. We give so much aid to the rest of the world it's ridiculous. I for one say we should be taking care of our own people.

Wow, you missed the point there by quite a bit.
The point is that this stance that teh Government had no selfish motivations and is only in Iraq to liberate the people is countered by the fact that there are places who need help much more but don't have much natural resources.
If the USA cares so much about other people's liberties, why doesn't it do anything about the rest of the people who had a much more shitty time than those in Iraq?

[heavycola]

Perhaps before talking out of their AIDS ridden arses, radiojake and co. would like to join the fucking t-owelhead-aleban, seeing as how they dissaprove of the US so much.

More ignorance and abuse from the self styled intelectual.

He sometimes manages to put half an argument together and then says things like that, it's very sad!

I just cannot tolerate the fact that someone's son is being mortared and shot at so radiojake can have his freedom, and he then calls him an evil murderer. It is just disgusting.

As for HC, other than repeatedly insult me, do you want to engage in civilized debate any time, or you just going to express your frustration on me

i didn't insult you, nappy, i merely expressed a benign opinion. Having read your views on race, gays, arabs, religion and now iraq, I have concluded that you are a little disturbed. That's all.

This isn't a civilized debate anyway (cf. your 'aids-ridden arseholes' post). No one is being shot at so australians can remain free. It was a ridiculous and over-emotive piece of nonsense from you, and I am calling you on it.

And as for the jingoists in this thread - there is your moral absolutism, nappy. Millions of americans indoctrinated into actually believing their country is the world's moral compass. This is why so many people there believe climate change is all a big scam, or that iraq is an example of pure altruism and nobility. It's just the way it is, that's all, and it is heart-wrenchingly sad for the rest of us.