Conquer Club

Federal Power in the United States

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Federal Power in the United States

Postby Nobunaga on Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:42 pm

Federal lawmakers are considering the broadest effort ever to limit what children eat: a national ban on selling candy, sugary soda and salty, fatty food in school snack bars, vending machines and cafeteria lines.

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/us/02 ... ref=slogin

... The Iowa Caucuses are approaching with elections not far behind. The US government has its hands in so many aspects of our lives already and is constantly reaching for more. That bit above concerning the Feds banning junk food in schools is no shocking example, yet it illustrates the mentality of our governemnt quite clearly I think.

... A lot of folks might see what's written above and think, "Well, that's a good thing. It's a healthy idea that might help kids". That is not the point. The point is the role of the Federal government in making this decision and executing this kind of power. What do local parents think? If they are not motivated enough and do not care enough to get their schools to stop fattening up their kids, or better yet, teach their kids that eating Twinkies all day is a bad thing, let it be.

... There are millions of examples. I am writing this because in only the ten years I've been out of the States this place has changed. Every time I read the news I see a story about the Feds banning this, or offerring that. It's frightening, really. How much control do they want?

... Post your thoughts if you wish. It's not really a Republican / Democrat argument. Sure, Dems like "Big Government" but recently the Republicans are not doing much to support state or local power.

...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Nobunaga
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:09 am
Location: West of Osaka

Postby unriggable on Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:45 pm

Chain reaction. Parents look to the gov't to make difficult decisions (spanking) for their kids and become more lazy, more decisions are made by the gov't to protect kids on seemingly easy issues.

WORK THE f*ck OUT, YOU FAT FUCKS.
Image
User avatar
Cook unriggable
 
Posts: 8037
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Postby muy_thaiguy on Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:50 pm

unriggable wrote:Chain reaction. Parents look to the gov't to make difficult decisions (spanking) for their kids and become more lazy, more decisions are made by the gov't to protect kids on seemingly easy issues.

WORK THE f*ck OUT, YOU FAT FUCKS.
That's certainly one way of putting it.
"Eh, whatever."
-Anonymous


What, you expected something deep or flashy?
User avatar
Private 1st Class muy_thaiguy
 
Posts: 12746
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 11:20 am
Location: Back in Black

Postby FiveThreeEight on Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Have you also seen Clinton's plan for national healthcare? She wants to force people to get healthcare, and punish those that don't have it. There is even talk of garnishing wages from those that don't have it. Now, healthcare is a good thing, and I think everyone should have it, but to force them to get it is ridiculous. Health insurance is not like car insurance. If you don't have health insurance, and you get hurt, than it's only hurting your pocketbook.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class FiveThreeEight
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:18 pm

Postby Nobunaga on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:04 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
unriggable wrote:Chain reaction. Parents look to the gov't to make difficult decisions (spanking) for their kids and become more lazy, more decisions are made by the gov't to protect kids on seemingly easy issues.

WORK THE f*ck OUT, YOU FAT FUCKS.
That's certainly one way of putting it.


... Hey, is that avatar the guy from ... what was it?.. "Red Dead Revolver"?

...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Nobunaga
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:09 am
Location: West of Osaka

Postby muy_thaiguy on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:13 pm

Nobunaga wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
unriggable wrote:Chain reaction. Parents look to the gov't to make difficult decisions (spanking) for their kids and become more lazy, more decisions are made by the gov't to protect kids on seemingly easy issues.

WORK THE f*ck OUT, YOU FAT FUCKS.
That's certainly one way of putting it.


... Hey, is that avatar the guy from ... what was it?.. "Red Dead Revolver"?

...
Better believe it. 8)

But I never could get pass the level where you become the Indian guy. :(
"Eh, whatever."
-Anonymous


What, you expected something deep or flashy?
User avatar
Private 1st Class muy_thaiguy
 
Posts: 12746
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 11:20 am
Location: Back in Black

Postby Nobunaga on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:19 pm

... Edwards' answer to health insurance for the masses:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... rnish.html

... If you don't sign up for the national plan, your wages are garnished (Kids, "garnished" in this case is not a piece of parsley, rather it means they take money from your pay check and you can't do a thing about it).

...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Nobunaga
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:09 am
Location: West of Osaka

Postby FiveThreeEight on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:20 pm

The most ridiculous thing I've heard so far. One of the main reasons why I won't be voting for Clinton.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class FiveThreeEight
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:18 pm

Re: Federal Power in the United States

Postby radiojake on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:23 pm

Well at least it's an attempt to level out the fact that junk food companies spend millions a year on advertising that brainwashes kids into being stupid fat morons.

Nobunaga wrote: Every time I read the news I see a story about the Feds banning this, or offerring that. It's frightening, really. How much control do they want?
...


You sound like you are surprised by this or it is something new? Government's allow things as long as they are not a threat. It just may well be that the obesity problem in the states is such a threat (to maybe future enlistments for army recruitments? they don't want fat soldiers, or maybe even just the general population because a fat workforce would be less productive) that they have had to bring in a measure to counter it.

It's been like this forever. Why do you think some places 'allow' peaceful protest. Because it is no threat.

They didn't care about candy at school because it wasn't a threat, maybe it now is. Seems like how government has always worked to me
-- share what ya got --
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class radiojake
 
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:29 pm
Location: Adelaidian living in Melbourne

Re: Federal Power in the United States

Postby Nobunaga on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:32 pm

radiojake wrote:Well at least it's an attempt to level out the fact that junk food companies spend millions a year on advertising that brainwashes kids into being stupid fat morons.

Nobunaga wrote: Every time I read the news I see a story about the Feds banning this, or offerring that. It's frightening, really. How much control do they want?
...


You sound like you are surprised by this or it is something new? Government's allow things as long as they are not a threat. It just may well be that the obesity problem in the states is such a threat (to maybe future enlistments for army recruitments? they don't want fat soldiers, or maybe even just the general population because a fat workforce would be less productive) that they have had to bring in a measure to counter it.

It's been like this forever. Why do you think some places 'allow' peaceful protest. Because it is no threat.

They didn't care about candy at school because it wasn't a threat, maybe it now is. Seems like how government has always worked to me


... Well, Radio, perhaps I wasn't paying so much attention when I took off ten years ago. But new or old, it is still much too much.

... To the highest degree possible, local governments and state governments should have the power (a very limited power) to make such decisions. As for fat kids, that's the parents' fault and failed responsibility. Anybody who sees it as otherwise has serious problems.

... That bit about fat soldiers doesn't fly. Boot camp makes fatties trim and buff in no time, believe me. As for a fat and unproductive workforce... well, I will admit it is a possibility, but a very small one at best. (imho)

...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Nobunaga
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:09 am
Location: West of Osaka

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:35 pm

3 words..... VOTE RON PAUL!
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4293
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!

Postby soundout9 on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:36 pm

jay_a2j wrote:3 words..... VOTE RON PAUL!

I spread the word in my SS class friday :wink:
Private soundout9
 
Posts: 4519
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 pm
Location: Good ol' MO Clan: Next-Gen Gamers

Postby got tonkaed on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:14 pm

im not sure how much i agree with you nonbunga here. You tend to speak a lot of sense about issues of government, though i dont think we always agree, and im a bit of a big government guy.

I think we both agree your cited example (though its simply an example) is an abuse of the federal level power. I dont really see this as something the gov should necessarily get into, though a cynic like myself could see it as paving the way for natl healthcare through a preventative overstep in adolescence.

However there clearly are things going on still which arent being handled well by states at all, with immigration issues being one of them. I guess since this could potentially be a commerce issue (the example)....maybe on those grounds it qualifies. But thats a large stretch clearly.
User avatar
Cadet got tonkaed
 
Posts: 5034
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Federal Power in the United States

Postby radiojake on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:22 pm

Nobunaga wrote: As for fat kids, that's the parents' fault and failed responsibility. Anybody who sees it as otherwise has serious problems.
...



True, but why should a kid have to have the unfortunate burden of having dead beat parents who let the kid become a tubby poomba?

I just think junk food in school is an easy think to eradicate, it's of no use there, they can get it everywhere else they want. School is supposed to educate kids so why would it be different in eating habits?

Of all the cases of 'big government' i don't see why this one is bothering you more, or the case that you chose to highlight. (though it seems to me that this is a case of the 'straw that broke camels back' kind of scenario)
-- share what ya got --
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class radiojake
 
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:29 pm
Location: Adelaidian living in Melbourne

Postby DaGip on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:35 pm

Well, first off...if your kids are being home schooled or going to a private school, they probably don't have to comply with this; but since it involves the public school system (which is actually Federalized education) then the government can do what ever it wants with the schools.

I would be more concerned with Hillary-care if I was you guys!
Army of GOD wrote:This thread is now about my large penis
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class DaGip
 
Posts: 4047
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:48 am
Location: Watertown, South Dakota

Postby CoffeeCream on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:44 pm

I don't know why anyone is surprised at this. If the government is going to pay for your health care then it is just a natural further step that they're going to demand that those they are taking care of live lifestyles that will not cost the system too much.

Our educational system is terrible as well. The government has done a fantastic job of screwing that up for us. Europeans think we're a joke. Why would we want the government involved in dictating our healthcare to us as well?

My fear is that if there is a national healthcare system that is forced down our throats, that the elderly will be told it is their duty to die in order to keep costs from rising.

Competition in the healthcare marketplace will drive down costs and force doctors to compete for patients by providing higher quality services.
User avatar
Corporal CoffeeCream
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:43 pm

Re: Federal Power in the United States

Postby Nobunaga on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:59 pm

radiojake wrote:True, but why should a kid have to have the unfortunate burden of having dead beat parents who let the kid become a tubby poomba?


... I understand your thinking and I agree that a lot of kids probably do indeed have deadbeat parents. But to follow the course the Feds decide is best for our kids is very dangerous.

radiojake wrote: Of all the cases of 'big government' i don't see why this one is bothering you more, or the case that you chose to highlight. (though it seems to me that this is a case of the 'straw that broke camels back' kind of scenario)


... The problem is, somwhere, some place, this began with encroachment of Federal powers on our daily lives. And the practice has obviously increased to the point where "drawing the line" is increasingly difficult, as this manner of thing is so predominant now it's considered "normal".

... This particular incident (junk food ban in schools) didn't bother me more than any other case, it's just that I was thinking about this subject today and I ran across this news piece, and it just pissed me off.

...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Nobunaga
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:09 am
Location: West of Osaka

Postby moomaster2000 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:52 am

DEMOCRATS ARE COMMUNIST!
Image
User avatar
Corporal moomaster2000
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:19 am
Location: Encinitas, CA

Re: Federal Power in the United States

Postby jm_jazzman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:18 am

Nobunaga wrote:... I understand your thinking and I agree that a lot of kids probably do indeed have deadbeat parents. But to follow the course the Feds decide is best for our kids is very dangerous.


When the Feds decide...
This just reminded me of a story from England I read a while back.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6396457.stm
User avatar
Corporal jm_jazzman
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:15 am
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada

Re: Federal Power in the United States

Postby Nobunaga on Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:18 am

jm_jazzman wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:... I understand your thinking and I agree that a lot of kids probably do indeed have deadbeat parents. But to follow the course the Feds decide is best for our kids is very dangerous.


When the Feds decide...
This just reminded me of a story from England I read a while back.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6396457.stm


(from the above article)

Ms McKeown, 35, told the BBC: "Connor had a mouthful of apple once and he didn't like it.

"He refuses to eat fruit, vegetables and salads - he has processed foods.

"When Connor won't eat anything else, I've got to give him the foods he likes.

"I can't starve him.


____

... This lady needs help... well, her son needs help, I have to agree.

...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Nobunaga
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:09 am
Location: West of Osaka

Postby got tonkaed on Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:41 pm

CoffeeCream wrote:I don't know why anyone is surprised at this. If the government is going to pay for your health care then it is just a natural further step that they're going to demand that those they are taking care of live lifestyles that will not cost the system too much.

Our educational system is terrible as well. The government has done a fantastic job of screwing that up for us. Europeans think we're a joke. Why would we want the government involved in dictating our healthcare to us as well?

My fear is that if there is a national healthcare system that is forced down our throats, that the elderly will be told it is their duty to die in order to keep costs from rising.

Competition in the healthcare marketplace will drive down costs and force doctors to compete for patients by providing higher quality services.


i dont necessarily disagree with some of the ideas in this post but i have a few questions....

Do you really think its the educational system that is causing Europe to think we are backward, or that a group of nations which in many cases have some kind of natl healthcare would find us moving to a similar system as backward?

Are free market solutions really working for a sizeable portion of the population right now, as some figures have argued (at least to the best of me remembering right) that around 40 million people dont have any kind of insurance, and we expect these people to be able to all of the sudden, pay for their insurance as soon as companies begin to be phased out of the process?

I certainly dont have the answer to the healthcare problem, but i didnt really think the repubs had much of one for the working poor and those beneath the poverty line.
User avatar
Cadet got tonkaed
 
Posts: 5034
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby Nobunaga on Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:56 pm

... Yeah, there's no easy answer to this. The United States has the best health care available on the planet, in terms of technology and advancement, but these wonderful things are not available to just anybody walking in off the street.

... Off topic slightly, perhaps... I read last week that the number of Americans getting into General Medicine is falling like a brick. I did not understand the entirety of the article but it had much to do with government-set limits being placed on how much doctors could charge patients during visits. Turns out everybody is becoming a specialist now... I guess they can charge what they wish. Like Britain there is a huge increase in the number of doctors coming in from the Indian subcontinent to fill the void. Not necessarily a bad thing, but interesting.

...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Nobunaga
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:09 am
Location: West of Osaka

Postby got tonkaed on Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:00 pm

I think if i was to hazard a guess thats probalby in some way an outcome of having an increasingly open system as far as labor goes. Along with the market outpacing some of the intervention from the government side of things.

I mean if you look at doctors, we are talking about a slice of the population which has a pretty good subset of skills and has a fair amount of upward economic mobility. They are capable of benefiting from a more open system, by honing in their skills to a specific area, because of advances in the field, and can therefore harness more in the wage game.

I think its just one of those not really good or bad things society is going to go through in the future. As much as possible, individuals who can will specialize, and those places will be filled by people who are willing to take a lower wage. Its certainly not anything you wouldnt expect or fault someone from doing, from the docs point of view.
User avatar
Cadet got tonkaed
 
Posts: 5034
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby silvanricky on Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:13 am

personally I don't want the government providing my healthcare for me. They pretty much suck at everything else.

Government healthcare. Now that's an oxymoron.
User avatar
Corporal silvanricky
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:13 pm

Postby unriggable on Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:58 am

moomaster2000 wrote:DEMOCRATS ARE COMMUNIST!


I GUESS WE BETTER GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE RICH AND TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO STOP IT!
Image
User avatar
Cook unriggable
 
Posts: 8037
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Next

Return to Acceptable Content

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Stegura