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More experts say Gov. is lying about 911

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Postby AAFitz on Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:59 pm

Actually, though believing there was a conspiracy, and no plane at this point is reckless, not considering the possibility that the buildings were dropped with controlled demolition is just as reckless.

Building 7 was. Theres a quote by the owner in and interview where he says he specifically said "pull it" reffering to building 7. He could have meant pull the firefighters, but they evacuated the building, set up a safe perimiter and watched it drop on que.

This isnt mentioned in the 911 report anywhere. The reason it woudnt be mentioned if there was a cover-up, is because controlled demolitions take weeks of careful setting up to prepare. If building 7 was demolished, it would have had to have been done ahead of time. If it was done ahead of time, it is possible the other towers were done too.

The twin towers were a huge target of terrorists...if they managed to get them to fall sideways the damage and loss of life could have been many times greater than what did happen. Its not a stretch to think that in the interest of saving tens of thousands of New Yorkers from a falling 1000 ft building that was a target of terrorists in the past and present, that they rigged it to fall safely in upon itself just in case.

Now, it is possible that this was not a massive plot, planned from day one, and that it just happened, and the contingency plan was to drop the building if it looked as though it was going to fall over.

I watched the inside job video. I yelled at the announcer absolutely pissed off about what she was saying. I couldnt believe anyone would even dare mention anything as crazy and disrespectful...but after 45 minutes of watching detail after detail that just seemed suspicious, I became very nervous, because though theres no way they proved it was an inside job by any stretch, they certainly proved, it might warrant further investigation.

I dont question the fact that a jumbo jet at 400 miles per hour with full fuel tanks could demolish a building exactly as it happened. Certainly planes can be hijacked as those were, and as many have been in the past. However, firemen were saying the fire was almost out, they then heard what they called many secondary explosions...many... and the explosion before the building collapsed was documented by videos as far away as a few miles. The fact that the collapses perfectly resemble controlled demolition does warrant some further investigation.

To simply trust that no one would be crazy enough to kill that many people goes against all human history. I have no idea what happened, and it is at least just as likely that it happened just as we were told it did. But Im not about to discount the possibility that more didnt happen, just because it seems crazy to think anyone could be that evil.

I think xtra is a bit high strung, and has the argumentative ability of a 5th grader usually, but I dont believe he is doing this for fun. I think he genuinely believes the whole thing was planned, and feels compelled to share it. I think hes jumped to a bunch of conclusions far too early, but his pointing out that it could use a little more looking into is certainly justified, if for no other reason, than because of the ramifications if its true. In any case, if someone believes they were planned, and is trying to convince someone of it, they would be doing the people who died there a service. Ignoring the possibility because its easier to do so is actually an injustice to those who died, I think.

Personally, I think its perfectly plausible, that a plane made of aluminum which does vaporize at the impact speeds it was going probably hit the pentagon. Even if the entire event was orchestrated, it seems like it would have been easier to just crash the plane into it, then get rid of a plane, and set up a missile strike....hell, if it was a missile strike, that was planned in advance, I think they would have actually planted some fragments of plane to make sure no one would ever suspect a missile...

As far as the buildings, knowing that building 7 was almost certainly demolished, and did not fall because of the fire means that I cannot fully discount the possibility that the towers were rigged too. Whether for safety, or profit... or whatever other reason. To ignore its possible is just somewhat naive. There have been too many instances in history, where societies have been fooled by their leaders, so to discount it summarily without researching it is just unwise. The government has done many evil things in the interest of preserving our nation and way of life.

Im not suggesting anyone believes any of the conspiracy theories in the state they are now. There's no real evidence, and realistically the most probable explanation is that they are just coincidences that unfortunately have made a horrible event even harder for some to handle. However, I would suggest that keeping an open mind in this kind of situation is vital to the health of a country. To simply trust leaders because you cant imagine theyd ever do anything crazy, is just crazy in and of itself. Its always worth investigating something like this from every angle. To not do so is just asking for trouble.

xtra may very well be crazy, and is more likely completely off base than right, however, I think he believes it, and his actual goal isnt just to get attention for the sake of it, but to make sure justice is done. Though his conclusions are by far premature, some of the facts that hes pointing out, really are suspicious. I wouldnt recommend putting too much time into researching them, because it would be fruitless, and people with means and resources will never stop investigating it till they die, regardless of what happened at this point. However, discounting the possibility that something is covered up here, without ever looking at the other side of it, is dangerous business.
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Postby Backglass on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:04 pm

I actually went to the georgewashington.blogspop link and was amused when, later in the comments section, the author got his ass handed to him with common sense over & over again. Much like you. :lol:

Thanks extra!

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!!!


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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:27 pm

Nice thoughts there AAfitz

did you see

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... eptions%22

or

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1483512003


and backglass and the others do not want to open their minds. The NEED to believe that this governments invasion and the murder of over 1 million people in the Middle East was justified because some kids with box cutters (half a dozen are still alive--google it) attacked us on 911 despite the fact that over 500 experts say 911 was an inside job http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/ and Marvin Bush was head of security at the WTC buildings and airports of 911.

They only want to spam the thread, mock, or make fun of my spelling instead of rebutting the information.


The truth will come out, its just a matter of time.
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Postby Carebian Knight on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:44 pm

xtratabasco wrote:Nice thoughts there AAfitz

did you see

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... eptions%22

or

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1483512003


and backglass and the others do not want to open their minds. The NEED to believe that this governments invasion and the murder of over 1 million people in the Middle East was justified because some kids with box cutters (half a dozen are still alive--google it) attacked us on 911 despite the fact that over 500 experts say 911 was an inside job http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/ and Marvin Bush was head of security at the WTC buildings and airports of 911.

They only want to spam the thread, mock, or make fun of my spelling instead of rebutting the information.


The truth will come out, its just a matter of time.


Ok first off, I'll say it, only AAfitz has an open mind here. xtra you have your mind closed on the conspiracy so you can say nothing about we won't open our minds. Others of us are sticking to the gov't. Over 500 may say it was an inside job, but how many say it wasn't. I guarentee it's a lot more than 500.

The truth has already come out, you just refuse to accept it.

If you truly think the gov't is just a huge conspiracy, then quite being a little wuss about it and do something instead of just talking about it.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:48 pm

no my mind is open.

Ive asked for pictures of the 757 that this government says hit the pentagon and not 1 of you could show them.
Last edited by xtratabasco on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Carebian Knight on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:49 pm

Your not opening your mind to the possibility that it isn't a conspiracy. I believe the plane topic has already been discussed.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:54 pm

Carebian Knight wrote:Your not opening your mind to the possibility that it isn't a conspiracy. I believe the plane topic has already been discussed.



ok, here is my concerns, take them on or go someplace else to grip.

If you dont want to talk about these problems/holes in this governments stories, then go make your own thread about defending them.




Here’s some of the evidence that prompts them to call for a new investigation:

1 20-ton sections of steel beams were propelled, laterally, for a distance of up to 400 feet where they lodged in the sides of nearby buildings. (See video footage of this at http://www.ae911truth.org)


2 Molten metal was seen (and videotaped) gushing out the side of one of the twin towers. (Why is this significant? Jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees Fahrenheit while office furniture, rugs and computers burn at an even lower temperature. Iron and steel don’t vaporize until their temperature gets close to 4000 degrees F. So what does burn at a temperature capable of vaporizing steel? Incendiary compounds known as thermate and thermite, which burn at 4500 degrees F. See more about this later in this article.)


3 Various explosions (some quite powerful) were seen, heard and felt by hundreds of people, including many firemen and policemen, prior to the collapse of the twin towers, but occurred well after the airliners collided with the buildings.


4 Huge numbers of extremely tiny iron spherules (formed when steel or iron vaporizes at extremely high temperatures) can be found in most of the 9/11 dust samples. (more evidence for thermite)


5 Many column sections seen in the wreckage of the twin towers were cut at 45-degree angles, and have, close to the cut lines, previously-melted 'drippings' produced when the steel was melted at a temperature much higher than can be produced by an acetylene torch. This kind of angle cut can be used to direct the falling beam inward.
Source for the above information is http://www.ae911truth.org, which is the web site of an investigative organization whose 200+ members are all either professional architects or professional engineers.

If there were no high-powered explosives detonated inside the twin towers, as the official explanation contends, then defenders of that official explanation must provide us with an alternate theory as to how those column and/or beam sections got embedded in the sides of buildings that were 400 feet away. (The compressed air created by floors collapsing one upon the other could provide nowhere near the energy required to propel a 20-ton beam or column section that far.) In addition, defenders of the official explanation must provide us with a plausible fuel source for the temperatures approaching 4000 degrees F. which would have been necessary to vaporize parts of many of the steel beam remnants found in the wreckage.

The evidence for incendiary cutting of steel consists of the video evidence, the forensic evidence in the dust and rubble, and the testimony of eyewitness early responders and survivors who saw glowing molten metal flowing out of window openings. These incendiary events and the forensic evidence strongly suggest that the official story is wrong. The chemistry of the iron-aluminum-rich microspheres that are found in the dust from the rubble, the chemical content of these microspheres suggest that the official story is wrong. http://www.journalof911studies.com/volu ... emistryWTC

So when could the explosives and incendiary materials have been planted?

The official record shows that various floors of each of the twin towers were completely closed off 'for repairs,' for days at a time. Monitoring TV cameras on these floors were disconnected.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html. Owner Larry Silverstein was perhaps in on the deal. Why suspect this? Well, for one thing he received a fabulous insurance settlement, after purchasing the WTC complex just weeks earlier under unusual circumstances. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein.html. The terrorist attack on the twin towers saved him the immense expense of having the towers demolished in the conventional way. (The towers had many structural problems. Two applications to have the buildings demolished were submitted by the previous owners because of the advanced galvanic corrosion that was taking place at each of the thousands of joints where aluminum parts were mistakenly put in tight contact with steel structural members.) http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.contd.2.html

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that explosives and incendiary compounds might have been planted at strategic locations within the Twin Towers. For example:

Bomb-sniffing dogs were inexplicably prevented from doing their job in the Twin Towers five days before 9-11

Various floors in the Twin Towers had been evacuated a number of times in the weeks preceding 9/11

There was a ‘power-down’ in parts of the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved.


And, as an interesting coincidence, a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade center, thus giving it free reign within the buildings.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html
In addition to these facts, demolition-and-building-collapse experts have raised the possibility of "explosive tenants" -- i.e. tenants in the Twin Towers who might have planted explosives in their own rented office spaces. http://911blogger.com/node/2487
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Postby Carebian Knight on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:57 pm

I've read all that already, like 3 times.

Why would I go make a new thread to support it? That's just a waste of space. That's why you annoy everyone, you make a new thread for everything. Keep everything that has to do with 9/11 in one thread, maybe people would take you more seriously.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:00 pm

Carebian Knight wrote:I've read all that already, like 3 times.

Why would I go make a new thread to support it? That's just a waste of space. That's why you annoy everyone, you make a new thread for everything. Keep everything that has to do with 9/11 in one thread, maybe people would take you more seriously.



It doesnt matter what you think of me, hell, go into the flame war.

and your avoiding the last question to you, so you are not taken seriously.






next.
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Postby Carebian Knight on Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:03 pm

What question? There's not a question mark in that entire post.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:08 pm

xtratabasco wrote:
Carebian Knight wrote:Your not opening your mind to the possibility that it isn't a conspiracy. I believe the plane topic has already been discussed.



ok, here is my concerns, take them on or go someplace else to grip.

If you dont want to talk about these problems/holes in this governments stories, then go make your own thread about defending them.




Here’s some of the evidence that prompts them to call for a new investigation:

1 20-ton sections of steel beams were propelled, laterally, for a distance of up to 400 feet where they lodged in the sides of nearby buildings. (See video footage of this at http://www.ae911truth.org)


2 Molten metal was seen (and videotaped) gushing out the side of one of the twin towers. (Why is this significant? Jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees Fahrenheit while office furniture, rugs and computers burn at an even lower temperature. Iron and steel don’t vaporize until their temperature gets close to 4000 degrees F. So what does burn at a temperature capable of vaporizing steel? Incendiary compounds known as thermate and thermite, which burn at 4500 degrees F. See more about this later in this article.)


3 Various explosions (some quite powerful) were seen, heard and felt by hundreds of people, including many firemen and policemen, prior to the collapse of the twin towers, but occurred well after the airliners collided with the buildings.


4 Huge numbers of extremely tiny iron spherules (formed when steel or iron vaporizes at extremely high temperatures) can be found in most of the 9/11 dust samples. (more evidence for thermite)


5 Many column sections seen in the wreckage of the twin towers were cut at 45-degree angles, and have, close to the cut lines, previously-melted 'drippings' produced when the steel was melted at a temperature much higher than can be produced by an acetylene torch. This kind of angle cut can be used to direct the falling beam inward.
Source for the above information is http://www.ae911truth.org, which is the web site of an investigative organization whose 200+ members are all either professional architects or professional engineers.

If there were no high-powered explosives detonated inside the twin towers, as the official explanation contends, then defenders of that official explanation must provide us with an alternate theory as to how those column and/or beam sections got embedded in the sides of buildings that were 400 feet away. (The compressed air created by floors collapsing one upon the other could provide nowhere near the energy required to propel a 20-ton beam or column section that far.) In addition, defenders of the official explanation must provide us with a plausible fuel source for the temperatures approaching 4000 degrees F. which would have been necessary to vaporize parts of many of the steel beam remnants found in the wreckage.

The evidence for incendiary cutting of steel consists of the video evidence, the forensic evidence in the dust and rubble, and the testimony of eyewitness early responders and survivors who saw glowing molten metal flowing out of window openings. These incendiary events and the forensic evidence strongly suggest that the official story is wrong. The chemistry of the iron-aluminum-rich microspheres that are found in the dust from the rubble, the chemical content of these microspheres suggest that the official story is wrong. http://www.journalof911studies.com/volu ... emistryWTC

So when could the explosives and incendiary materials have been planted?

The official record shows that various floors of each of the twin towers were completely closed off 'for repairs,' for days at a time. Monitoring TV cameras on these floors were disconnected.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html. Owner Larry Silverstein was perhaps in on the deal. Why suspect this? Well, for one thing he received a fabulous insurance settlement, after purchasing the WTC complex just weeks earlier under unusual circumstances. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein.html. The terrorist attack on the twin towers saved him the immense expense of having the towers demolished in the conventional way. (The towers had many structural problems. Two applications to have the buildings demolished were submitted by the previous owners because of the advanced galvanic corrosion that was taking place at each of the thousands of joints where aluminum parts were mistakenly put in tight contact with steel structural members.) http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.contd.2.html

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that explosives and incendiary compounds might have been planted at strategic locations within the Twin Towers. For example:

Bomb-sniffing dogs were inexplicably prevented from doing their job in the Twin Towers five days before 9-11

Various floors in the Twin Towers had been evacuated a number of times in the weeks preceding 9/11

There was a ‘power-down’ in parts of the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved.


And, as an interesting coincidence, a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade center, thus giving it free reign within the buildings.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html
In addition to these facts, demolition-and-building-collapse experts have raised the possibility of "explosive tenants" -- i.e. tenants in the Twin Towers who might have planted explosives in their own rented office spaces. http://911blogger.com/node/2487



lets try them again ok.

If you dont want to thats fine.
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Postby Carebian Knight on Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:10 pm

I see one question in that entire thing. You answered it yourself.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:11 pm

Carebian Knight wrote:I see one question in that entire thing. You answered it yourself.


lol


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby heavycola on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:02 am

xtra do you not get the problems with your copy and pasting? Or your crappy videos?

You copy and paste this stuff without a thought as to its accuracy. You just trust it without thinking .

Here, for example:
There was a ‘power-down’ in parts of the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved.

Which parts? What was the official reason given, and where can we read it? How 'many' workers? What kind of workers? Who did they work for? If they were unobserved, how does this guy know they were busy doing things? Who is his SOURCE?
It was, it turns out, an IT geek (from a team of 100, working one weekend) who had this to say: 'When the South Tower collapsed, like a pillar of sand, it seemed unreal and inconceivable and I immediately thought something weird was going on. I became more suspicious several months later when the power down condition was never acknowledged'.

EVERYONE WHO SAW IT thought it was unreal! Nobody had ever seen anything like it! And he then thinks... what, exactly? That it was suspicious that they did maintenance work on the weekend, when the building was empty? That workers might be involved? Is this really so weird? And read the other guy's questions; 'did these people look middle eastern? ' WTF?? So what if they did? Does this strike you as a leading question, at all?

NB please note this is all from your own links, not mine

And, as an interesting coincidence, a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade center, thus giving it free reign within the buildings.


Marvin Bush?? who quit the board in 2000?? Does that give 'it' (WTF is 'it') 'free reign' within the buildings?
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 000032.txt
That is a link to SEC filings from Stratesec, the security company in question, proving it finished its WTC contract work in 1998. A little more research shows that general security for teh buildings was always handled by NY Port Authority police, an organisation that lost a lot of officers that day.

Xtra, I am a journalist and I know the importance of a) accuracy and b) attribution. It took me 5 minutes to tear holes in stuff you have copied and pasted without a second thought.

Has it never occurred to you to do your own digging? Or do you just buy whatever teh internetz say?
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:12 am

I will not be FOOLED.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
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Postby alex_white101 on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:12 am

he apparently believes whatever google says. maybe you're new sources can be wikepedia and youtube, they are always 100% reliable.
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:14 am

jay_a2j wrote:I will not be FOOLED.

You just posted a montage of Twin Towers footage set to a Linkin Park soundtrack. What the hell do you think you're proving?

Seriously, how much Kool-Aid have you drunk? And where are you getting that kind of money from?
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:19 am

Dancing Mustard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:I will not be FOOLED.

You just posted a montage of Twin Towers footage set to a Linkin Park soundtrack. What the hell do you think you're proving?

Seriously, how much Kool-Aid have you drunk? And where are you getting that kind of money from?




Time will tell on WHO had drunk the Kool-Aid.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:22 am

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Postby alex_white101 on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:22 am

jay_a2j wrote:Time will tell on WHO had drunk the Kool-Aid.


no it shant, as even if you are right how would u ever find out? You think any of this stuff would be admitted to by the govt even if it was true just coz a few crackhead taxi drivers spout it to a few people who have the misfortune of having to listen to it.
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:37 am

alex_white101 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Time will tell on WHO had drunk the Kool-Aid.


no it shant, as even if you are right how would u ever find out? You think any of this stuff would be admitted to by the govt even if it was true just coz a few crackhead taxi drivers spout it to a few people who have the misfortune of having to listen to it.



When our Constitution is scraped. When we no longer have any of the freedoms we now enjoy. We can look back and see how it came about. After the Oklahoma City bombing we got the "Terrorist Bill" passed. after 911 we got "The Patriot Act" passed. Slowly taking away our freedoms and setting up a government that resembles nothing like America used to look. These will be the footprints to the New World Order. I would like nothing more than I am wrong on this.
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Postby heavycola on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:48 am

jay_a2j wrote:I would like nothing more than I am wrong on this.


I don't believe you. If you took any time to check the accuracy and sources of the conspiracy theories in which you believe so fervently and unquestioningly, I might.

if you want to be wrong on this, try doing your own research. And i don't mean googling 'new world order', i mean actually looking behind these sources.




This is the internet's downside. While newspapers are accountable, anyone can say whatever they like on the internet - and people like jay will lap it up unquestioningly. It is laziness and weak-mindedness, that's all.
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:59 am

heavycola wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:I would like nothing more than I am wrong on this.


I don't believe you. If you took any time to check the accuracy and sources of the conspiracy theories in which you believe so fervently and unquestioningly, I might.

if you want to be wrong on this, try doing your own research. And i don't mean googling 'new world order', i mean actually looking behind these sources.




This is the internet's downside. While newspapers are accountable, anyone can say whatever they like on the internet - and people like jay will lap it up unquestioningly. It is laziness and weak-mindedness, that's all.




Heavy... I used to argue the other side. I believed the terrorist plot. I called people like me crazies. I was dragged along by the "war on terror". Then something happened. I took a step back and pondered all the stuff I had been fed since 911. The fact that we stopped pursuing Osama...the one responsible for 911. Who WAS the greater enemy? Saddam or Osama? I started giving the "conspiracy" thing a look. So, many unanswered questions. Yet so many "grasping at straws" explanations. I couldn't sit back and be fooled any longer.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
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Postby xtratabasco on Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:32 am

jay_a2j wrote:
heavycola wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:I would like nothing more than I am wrong on this.


I don't believe you. If you took any time to check the accuracy and sources of the conspiracy theories in which you believe so fervently and unquestioningly, I might.

if you want to be wrong on this, try doing your own research. And i don't mean googling 'new world order', i mean actually looking behind these sources.




This is the internet's downside. While newspapers are accountable, anyone can say whatever they like on the internet - and people like jay will lap it up unquestioningly. It is laziness and weak-mindedness, that's all.




Heavy... I used to argue the other side. I believed the terrorist plot. I called people like me crazies. I was dragged along by the "war on terror". Then something happened. I took a step back and pondered all the stuff I had been fed since 911. The fact that we stopped pursuing Osama...the one responsible for 911. Who WAS the greater enemy? Saddam or Osama? I started giving the "conspiracy" thing a look. So, many unanswered questions. Yet so many "grasping at straws" explanations. I couldn't sit back and be fooled any longer.



yes, this and the obvious facts like


some of the boxcutter kids are still alive

no 757 pics at the pentagon

building 7 was pulled

firefighters and cops said they heard explosions in the wtc buildings before the planes hit

steel buildings dont pancake in 10 seconds or less

steel buildings dont fall do to fire

the fire wasnt hot enough to compormise steel

the mayor of shanksville said there was no plane debris

the cornor of shanksville said there was no bodies

Marvin bush was head of security at WTC and airports before 911



etc. etc. etc.
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Postby heavycola on Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:39 am

Marvin bush was head of security at WTC and airports before 911


you see what i mean? I just did some actual research for my last post - marvin bush was on the board of a company that did contract work at the WTC between 1993 and 1998. he left teh board in 200, and was anyway never head of the company, nor was this company in charge of security.
The Port Authority, as the WTC buildings' owner, was in charge of security. Many of their officers died on 9/11.

But you don't read anything up for yourself, much less read anyone else's posts. You just lap it all up.
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