WELL, THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A REASON..........

[radiojake]

more on the road kills...

Thanks Jake. You have no answer except to go back to beating this drum. Talk about something that really has nothing to do with anything. But hey, if you want to keep digging up useless info, get me the deaths in the USA from colon cancer, train-automoblie accidents, and logging accidents, if you please.

Also, did you not see my question on your heritage, or did you purposely ignore it?

If i could be fucked I would find those stats. But how is it irrelevant?? The whole fucking world is crying 'terrorism' - The world changed after 9/11. Police have new powers and shit, but really, how many people died in those attacks comparatively to other causes?? That's my point. Its a tiny percentage.

Also my heritage? You mean about the 'islamic' threat in Indonesia to the north of Australia? I am aware, ofcourse of the government rhetoric about it. I just didn't know you were asking a question about it

[got tonkaed]

fwiw... http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebSign?Rea ... d=375&ps=P

all the middle eastern countries that are relavant are on there. Also if we are going to claim we are better than the terrorists...shoudlnt we hold ourselves to higher standards than they do?

[jay_a2j]

Lets keep it real eh? Israel is NOT an instigator in its conflicts! Recently 2 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah so Israel retaliates and the world comes down on Israel! (If this happened to American troops, Bush would DO NOTHING in retaliation) News flash, much of the world has an anti-Israel bias. The facts remain, Israel defends itself and does not attack its neighbors without cause. (Unlike the US)

[Gold Knight]

more on the road kills...

Thanks Jake. You have no answer except to go back to beating this drum. Talk about something that really has nothing to do with anything. But hey, if you want to keep digging up useless info, get me the deaths in the USA from colon cancer, train-automoblie accidents, and logging accidents, if you please.

Also, did you not see my question on your heritage, or did you purposely ignore it?

If i could be fucked I would find those stats. But how is it irrelevant?? The whole fucking world is crying 'terrorism' - The world changed after 9/11. Police have new powers and shit, but really, how many people died in those attacks comparatively to other causes?? That's my point. Its a tiny percentage.

Also my heritage? You mean about the 'islamic' threat in Indonesia to the north of Australia? I am aware, ofcourse of the government rhetoric about it. I just didn't know you were asking a question about it

Sorry, just that bolded sentence caught me off guard...

[got tonkaed]

Lets keep it real eh? Israel is NOT an instigator in its conflicts! Recently 2 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah so Israel retaliates and the world comes down on Israel! (If this happened to American troops, Bush would DO NOTHING in retaliation) News flash, much of the world has an anti-Israel bias. The facts remain, Israel defends itself and does not attack its neighbors without cause. (Unlike the US)

you are claiming that a country with a doctrine of premption isnt an instigator?

i mean if you are, we agree to disagree, but that stance by its very nature is that of an instigator.

[Nobunaga]

... Pretty much.

... As nobody here can be bothered to listen.
...

Listen to what? You haven't said anything yet.

... Not to me, to anybody. Don't tell me you've not noticed the pattern... Everybody here is absolutely convinced that they are absolutely right.

... So yeah, I read the topic... invade Iran? No. Bad idea. The Iranians build dormitories around all their important locations and fill them with children. ... collateral damage would make for very bad press (pretty wily move, actually).

... Get an Iranian American to make the ultimate sacrifice. Have him (or her) go into China (as an Iranian.. very public) and put a bullet in the Premier's brain pan, after screaming the usual "Death to the Infidels!"...

... Then let China handle them. They're not concerened with bad press... (no elections).

...

[jay_a2j]

Lets keep it real eh? Israel is NOT an instigator in its conflicts! Recently 2 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah so Israel retaliates and the world comes down on Israel! (If this happened to American troops, Bush would DO NOTHING in retaliation) News flash, much of the world has an anti-Israel bias. The facts remain, Israel defends itself and does not attack its neighbors without cause. (Unlike the US)

you are claiming that a country with a doctrine of premption isnt an instigator?

i mean if you are, we agree to disagree, but that stance by its very nature is that of an instigator.

If you mean by Israel bombing nuclear facilities in Iran so that they don't use them to build a bomb and then nuke Israel, yeah...I guess they instigate there OWN survival!

[Serbia]

RadioJake, are you an Arab?

Before you go claiming I'm a racist, I have friends who are Arab, I know many Arabs. Detroit has a large Arab and Chaldean populations, look up Dearborn if you don't believe me. And no, those locked up in Gitmo are not there simply because they are Arabs. Grow up, and stop hating so much. You'll enjoy life much more.

not that i dont agree with everything you said specifically about detroit...but youd be the first person to claim that your free from being a racist by living near detroit. Speaking of which, which suburb are you from, ive meant to ask and never have.

also ps. im not going to ever directly discuss israel with you because we disagree and we are almost sort of buddies with the whole detroit sports thing.

GT, I can agree to disagree with you on Israel. You seem to be a respectful guy, even in arguments, and I respect the opinions of others.

As far as claiming not being racist because of where I live, I wasn't really trying to do that, more just pointing out the fact that I have been around Arabs, which in much of the USA you might be able to live your whole life without coming into contact with many, if any. Hope that clears that bit up.

Also, I live in St. Clair Shores. Between 8 Mile and 9 Mile.

[got tonkaed]

RadioJake, are you an Arab?

Before you go claiming I'm a racist, I have friends who are Arab, I know many Arabs. Detroit has a large Arab and Chaldean populations, look up Dearborn if you don't believe me. And no, those locked up in Gitmo are not there simply because they are Arabs. Grow up, and stop hating so much. You'll enjoy life much more.

not that i dont agree with everything you said specifically about detroit...but youd be the first person to claim that your free from being a racist by living near detroit. Speaking of which, which suburb are you from, ive meant to ask and never have.

also ps. im not going to ever directly discuss israel with you because we disagree and we are almost sort of buddies with the whole detroit sports thing.

GT, I can agree to disagree with you on Israel. You seem to be a respectful guy, even in arguments, and I respect the opinions of others.

As far as claiming not being racist because of where I live, I wasn't really trying to do that, more just pointing out the fact that I have been around Arabs, which in much of the USA you might be able to live your whole life without coming into contact with many, if any. Hope that clears that bit up.

Also, I live in St. Clair Shores. Between 8 Mile and 9 Mile.

naw i was just joking with ya about the detroit thing, and i agree it does actually do a bit of good about it...

im a livonia guy myself when im not out at GV....how about teh lions today [/threadjack]

[radiojake]

Once again, not saying what we do in Cuba is right in any sort, but dont act like we are doing such a terrible thing. It goes on all around the world.

Well shouldn't the benevolent, peace bringing all-righteous country known as the US of A actually practice what they preach and lift themselves above the notion of being 'terrorists'?

It's also interesting you used the word 'we' - Are you involved directly at all with what is happening at Guantanamo? Because if you're not I find it very odd why you would even remotely relate yourself to it. YOU have nothing to do with it (and so you shouldn't) The actions of your government do not always mean that you are a part of it.

[Serbia]

Also, I live in St. Clair Shores. Between 8 Mile and 9 Mile.

naw i was just joking with ya about the detroit thing, and i agree it does actually do a bit of good about it...

im a livonia guy myself when im not out at GV....how about teh lions today [/threadjack]

Livonia, I've done some work out there... not really enough to know the area that well, but some.

Can you believe the Lions are actually 5-2? The defense sure looked good today. And I don't care if it was the floundering Bears, and Griese (still feel for him, Michigan man and all), you got to beat who you play, and Detroit did that today. 3-0 in the Central sounds pretty good too.

[radiojake]

RadioJake, are you an Arab?

No, and I wasn't claiming you were racist. I haven't read any racist stuff you wrote. You're just a patriot, which is something only slightly different.

[Koesen]

... Pretty much.

... As nobody here can be bothered to listen.
...

Listen to what? You haven't said anything yet.

... Not to me, to anybody. Don't tell me you've not noticed the pattern... Everybody here is absolutely convinced that they are absolutely right.

... So yeah, I read the topic... invade Iran? No. Bad idea. The Iranians build dormitories around all their important locations and fill them with children. ... collateral damage would make for very bad press (pretty wily move, actually).

... Get an Iranian American to make the ultimate sacrifice. Have him (or her) go into China (as an Iranian.. very public) and put a bullet in the Premier's brain pan, after screaming the usual "Death to the Infidels!"...

... Then let China handle them. They're not concerened with bad press... (no elections).

...

Ok, now there's something I can take seriously. Yes, everybody here and elsewhere is absolutely convinced of their own point of view. I personally happen to believe it's still possible to have meaningful discussions though, even if you continue to disagree with each other.

I agree that an invasion of Iran is a bad idea, although I think Iran is and has been for a long time a more dangerous country than Iraq.

Your Chinese scenario is, well, the most original thing I've read from you so far. Let's say I'd rather see China go to war against Iran than the West, if there has to be a war

I did not, incidentally, say anything about Iran before, so why you think I'm a communist pothead is still unclear to me. Having said that, I don't really care.

[got tonkaed]

Also, I live in St. Clair Shores. Between 8 Mile and 9 Mile.

naw i was just joking with ya about the detroit thing, and i agree it does actually do a bit of good about it...

im a livonia guy myself when im not out at GV....how about teh lions today [/threadjack]

Livonia, I've done some work out there... not really enough to know the area that well, but some.

Can you believe the Lions are actually 5-2? The defense sure looked good today. And I don't care if it was the floundering Bears, and Griese (still feel for him, Michigan man and all), you got to beat who you play, and Detroit did that today. 3-0 in the Central sounds pretty good too.

lol im so excited, i can barely contain myself really. I agree about Griese...gonna always appreciate him at michigan. I tell you what though, if Kevin jones keeps running the ball like that they might really be able to do some things....As long as we dont have to play people in the NFC East...

[Gold Knight]

Once again, not saying what we do in Cuba is right in any sort, but dont act like we are doing such a terrible thing. It goes on all around the world.

Well shouldn't the benevolent, peace bringing all-righteous country known as the US of A actually practice what they preach and lift themselves above the notion of being 'terrorists'?

It's also interesting you used the word 'we' - Are you involved directly at all with what is happening at Guantanamo? Because if you're not I find it very odd why you would even remotely relate yourself to it. YOU have nothing to do with it (and so you shouldn't) The actions of your government do not always mean that you are a part of it.

Alright, tell me the plan you;ve come up with that will kill no people and keep all parties involved safe in a WAR, and then ill finally give in to that bullshit statement. Because thats what this is, a war, and i believe someone once said "All's fair in love and war". Is there a happy medium we can reach in war: not really, its either a win or a loss. I'd rather win and not have to deal with a threat of me dying on any given moment due to a fucking bomb or plane crashing into me.

If shit comes up I cant control, like an automobile crash , ill deal with that, shit happens. But theres plenty of variables of life we have to deal with right now, i really dont need attacks from halfway around the world to be on that list too.

[Serbia]

lol im so excited, i can barely contain myself really. I agree about Griese...gonna always appreciate him at michigan. I tell you what though, if Kevin jones keeps running the ball like that they might really be able to do some things....As long as we dont have to play people in the NFC East...

The running game is really going to open things up for us. Did you happen to hear anything about Calvin Johnson? I know he got banged up on that end-around, but I can't remember if he came back into the game after that. He's another guy who's just going to get better. And Kitna is really showing a lot this year too.... this is the most exciting Lions team for me since Barry last played.

[Gold Knight]

lol im so excited, i can barely contain myself really. I agree about Griese...gonna always appreciate him at michigan. I tell you what though, if Kevin jones keeps running the ball like that they might really be able to do some things....As long as we dont have to play people in the NFC East...

The running game is really going to open things up for us. Did you happen to hear anything about Calvin Johnson? I know he got banged up on that end-around, but I can't remember if he came back into the game after that. He's another guy who's just going to get better. And Kitna is really showing a lot this year too.... this is the most exciting Lions team for me since Barry last played.

Wait til they play GB, then they'll fall apart...

[got tonkaed]

lol im so excited, i can barely contain myself really. I agree about Griese...gonna always appreciate him at michigan. I tell you what though, if Kevin jones keeps running the ball like that they might really be able to do some things....As long as we dont have to play people in the NFC East...

The running game is really going to open things up for us. Did you happen to hear anything about Calvin Johnson? I know he got banged up on that end-around, but I can't remember if he came back into the game after that. He's another guy who's just going to get better. And Kitna is really showing a lot this year too.... this is the most exciting Lions team for me since Barry last played.

i havent heard no, ill just wait till they do the press stuff tommorow i guess. He has been pretty good, which is nice, cause if we mis drafted another reciever, well it wouldnt matter cause they love millen, but id be sad. He should be the goods for some time though....this really is probably the most exciting its been to be a lions fan since the very end of hte bobby ross days when mohler came in and got them inthe playoffs.

[Serbia]

lol im so excited, i can barely contain myself really. I agree about Griese...gonna always appreciate him at michigan. I tell you what though, if Kevin jones keeps running the ball like that they might really be able to do some things....As long as we dont have to play people in the NFC East...

The running game is really going to open things up for us. Did you happen to hear anything about Calvin Johnson? I know he got banged up on that end-around, but I can't remember if he came back into the game after that. He's another guy who's just going to get better. And Kitna is really showing a lot this year too.... this is the most exciting Lions team for me since Barry last played.

Wait til they play GB, then they'll fall apart...

Thanksgiving baby! Detroit historically plays well on the holiday, and I'm betting by that time, Farve will be good for 3 or 4 picks, to the defense that's leading the league in takeaways!!! (How do you like THAT one, GT?!)

[got tonkaed]

lol im so excited, i can barely contain myself really. I agree about Griese...gonna always appreciate him at michigan. I tell you what though, if Kevin jones keeps running the ball like that they might really be able to do some things....As long as we dont have to play people in the NFC East...

The running game is really going to open things up for us. Did you happen to hear anything about Calvin Johnson? I know he got banged up on that end-around, but I can't remember if he came back into the game after that. He's another guy who's just going to get better. And Kitna is really showing a lot this year too.... this is the most exciting Lions team for me since Barry last played.

Wait til they play GB, then they'll fall apart...

Thanksgiving baby! Detroit historically plays well on the holiday, and I'm betting by that time, Farve will be good for 3 or 4 picks, to the defense that's leading the league in takeaways!!! (How do you like THAT one, GT?!)

We do play great on thanksgiving for what its worth. And really farve probably does want to give a few to that league leading takeaway defense....which does sound pretty awesome.

[Serbia]

this really is probably the most exciting its been to be a lions fan since the very end of hte bobby ross days when mohler came in and got them inthe playoffs.

Moehler just missed the playoffs, but yeah, I get the point. Also, I wished at the time they would have kept him around, instead of bringing in Morningweg.

[radiojake]

Alright, tell me the plan you;ve come up with that will kill no people and keep all parties involved safe in a WAR, and then ill finally give in to that bullshit statement. Because thats what this is, a war, and i believe someone once said "All's fair in love and war". Is there a happy medium we can reach in war: not really, its either a win or a loss. I'd rather win and not have to deal with a threat of me dying on any given moment due to a fucking bomb or plane crashing into me.

If shit comes up I cant control, like an automobile crash , ill deal with that, shit happens. But theres plenty of variables of life we have to deal with right now, i really dont need attacks from halfway around the world to be on that list too.

Firstly, I wasn't ever attacking you personally. Why would you take my attack on the US government as a personal one?

Secondly, I thought a war involved two armies. Not a giant superpower invading a country with some nut cases about who have guns and some crazy rhetoric.

Wars are used as distractions from the fact our own governments are fucking its citizens anyway. Blaming distant, far away people who are different is much easier than looking internally (as in your own country) and solving problems

[got tonkaed]

Once again, not saying what we do in Cuba is right in any sort, but dont act like we are doing such a terrible thing. It goes on all around the world.

Well shouldn't the benevolent, peace bringing all-righteous country known as the US of A actually practice what they preach and lift themselves above the notion of being 'terrorists'?

It's also interesting you used the word 'we' - Are you involved directly at all with what is happening at Guantanamo? Because if you're not I find it very odd why you would even remotely relate yourself to it. YOU have nothing to do with it (and so you shouldn't) The actions of your government do not always mean that you are a part of it.

Alright, tell me the plan you;ve come up with that will kill no people and keep all parties involved safe in a WAR, and then ill finally give in to that bullshit statement. Because thats what this is, a war, and i believe someone once said "All's fair in love and war". Is there a happy medium we can reach in war: not really, its either a win or a loss. I'd rather win and not have to deal with a threat of me dying on any given moment due to a fucking bomb or plane crashing into me.

If shit comes up I cant control, like an automobile crash , ill deal with that, shit happens. But theres plenty of variables of life we have to deal with right now, i really dont need attacks from halfway around the world to be on that list too.

I think there are some things we have to consider that are a bit tangential when you look at some of the things involved in war. Certainly you cant make wars squeaky clean, your out to kill the other guy. It is what it is and you cant change that to a degree. But when we talk about some of the things our soliders have to go through, we are beginning to find there are some even more serious mental health problems that occur when you fight wars like you have to against insurgents.

So if we decide to couple this problem by treating the POW inhumanely, what happens to the people who are the ones who have to keep doing the inhuman acts. Theres a bit of star wars mythology at work here, you can only use their methods for so long before they rub off on you. There is going to be a mental health problem as a result of this conflict, because of a diagnostic culture that we will not have expeirenced before...and if we dont hold ourselves to high standards in teh field, its going to be worse in the homefront.

[Gold Knight]

Alright, tell me the plan you;ve come up with that will kill no people and keep all parties involved safe in a WAR, and then ill finally give in to that bullshit statement. Because thats what this is, a war, and i believe someone once said "All's fair in love and war". Is there a happy medium we can reach in war: not really, its either a win or a loss. I'd rather win and not have to deal with a threat of me dying on any given moment due to a fucking bomb or plane crashing into me.

If shit comes up I cant control, like an automobile crash , ill deal with that, shit happens. But theres plenty of variables of life we have to deal with right now, i really dont need attacks from halfway around the world to be on that list too.

Firstly, I wasn't ever attacking you personally. Why would you take my attack on the US government as a personal one?

Secondly, I thought a war involved two armies. Not a giant superpower invading a country with some nut cases about who have guns and some crazy rhetoric.

Wars are used as distractions from the fact our own governments are fucking its citizens anyway. Blaming distant, far away people who are different is much easier than looking internally (as in your own country) and solving problems

Alright, so the thousands of people shooting at US troops and praying for our deaths in the Middle East are just bystanders that are innocents? Ill say it once again, bullshit. Their government and a large amount of people living in that country supported the attacks, so how does that not count as a just cause? They had fair warning as to America's attacks, unlike the surprise wakeup we received from the terrorists.

The reason I try to keep out of these topics is because everyone here is so goddamn set on their own opinions and wont open their minds at all. Ive said it before, the US aint a bunch of fucking angels, but neither are the people who planned crashing fucking planes into our country. I completely agree with Geneva and the rest of that bullshit, but ill leave it for the idealists of the world. I see the world as it is, and nobody tells the fucking truth or does what they say they will. Real world, get used to it.

[b.k. barunt]

I have no problem with torturing a terrorist to extract information, or hell - just for the fun of it, but there is no excuse for killing women and children. Someone once asked me "well what if Adolph Hitler was on a bus full of kids, wouldn't you blow up the bus?" I would have to wave goodby to Adolph - it's not for me to play God. If it were George Bush on that bus however . . .


Honibaz