WELL, THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A REASON..........

[jay_a2j]

No kidding. At this point, we don't have to search for rockets to have reason to invade Iran. Facing facts, Iran is a greater threat to the world than Saddam was before we invaded Iraq. Iran is trying to get nukes, and they've already promised to bomb Israel with it. Even Europe (UK in particular) is talking about Iran as a serious threat. I'm confident that there will be a war involving the West and Iran in the near future. Iran is already fighting a proxy war against us in Iraq as it is, and these rockets are just more evidence of that fact. Anyone with understanding of the situation there knows that Iran has a very heavy hand not just in Iraq, but in the Syrian and Lebanese governments as well.

the Jews have over 100 nukes.

why dont they take care of their own problems?

Jews? what do you mean Jews? Do you mean Israelies?

I mean if the Jews can have nukes why cant the Iranians?

Because the Jews (Israelis) don't want to wipe Iran off the map?

[Nobunaga]

Well. To the extent China and Russia technically can, but thats just as dangerous.
India, meh,,,they'll only over nuke the pakkies.

... Uh-Oh. You said "pakkies".

... Where is Guiscard?

... damned racist.

...

[Koesen]

The gas argument is meaningless. The WMD that Saddam used against the Kurds had a date of expiration that was reached long before this war began. He once had them, yes, which is hardly news since he got them from the west and everybody was fine with it at the time. There is no evidence he ever got anything else.

As for the porus border story, if you believe a second rate banana repulbic à la Saddam's Iraq was capable of shipping an entire WMD arsenal and completely erasing all traces of their production program under a 24/7 US and UN surveillance, you have less faith in the States than I do.

As for the torture: there are numerous documented cases of prisoners that were beaten to death.

Would you accept it if any other country held American prisoners, stating they were neither POWs nor normal criminals and therefore not subject to any law or convention? No, you wouldn't.

You can't convincingly claim being the good guy and apply different moral standards to yourself than the rest of the world at the same time.

I have no sympathy for terrorists and if the whole of Al Qaeda is wiped out I won't cry, but if you claim to be the good guys, you can't lock up people without respecting any kind of human rights convention and you can't beat your prisoners to death. If you want to do those things, accept that you're no different.

[Strife]

No kidding. At this point, we don't have to search for rockets to have reason to invade Iran. Facing facts, Iran is a greater threat to the world than Saddam was before we invaded Iraq. Iran is trying to get nukes, and they've already promised to bomb Israel with it. Even Europe (UK in particular) is talking about Iran as a serious threat. I'm confident that there will be a war involving the West and Iran in the near future. Iran is already fighting a proxy war against us in Iraq as it is, and these rockets are just more evidence of that fact. Anyone with understanding of the situation there knows that Iran has a very heavy hand not just in Iraq, but in the Syrian and Lebanese governments as well.

the Jews have over 100 nukes.

why dont they take care of their own problems?

Jews? what do you mean Jews? Do you mean Israelies?

I mean if the Jews can have nukes why cant the Iranians?

Because the Jews (Israelis) don't want to wipe Iran off the map?

Exactly, The Israelies are peaceful. And some of Israel's population are Islamic even Christian(He did live there ) not just Jewish.

[Nobunaga]

The gas argument is meaningless. The WMD that Saddam used against the Kurds had a date of expiration that was reached long before this war began. He once had them, yes, which is hardly news since he got them from the west and everybody was fine with it at the time. There is no evidence he ever got anything else.

As for the porus border story, if you believe a second rate banana repulbic à la Saddam's Iraq was capable of shipping an entire WMD arsenal and completely erasing all traces of their production program under a 24/7 US and UN surveillance, you have less faith in the States than I do.

As for the torture: there are numerous documented cases of prisoners that were beaten to death.

Would you accept it if any other country held American prisoners, stating they were neither POWs nor normal criminals and therefore not subject to any law or convention? No, you wouldn't.

You can't convincingly claim being the good guy and apply different moral standards to yourself than the rest of the world at the same time.

I have no sympathy for terrorists and if the whole of Al Qaeda is wiped out I won't cry, but if you claim to be the good guys, you can't lock up people without respecting any kind of human rights convention and you can't beat your prisoners to death. If you want to do those things, accept that you're no different.

... Put that joint down and maybe somebody will take you seriously.

... Canadian potheads abound.

...

[got tonkaed]

Exactly, The Israelies are peaceful. And some of Israel's population are Islamic even Christian(He did live there ) not just Jewish.

you are just joking right? You may be the first person in quite some time to suggest the israelies are peaceful, especially toward their neighbors.

[Koesen]

I am Dutch. I just live in Canada.

Now try and come up with a real argument instead of a misguided ad hominem attack.

[Strife]

Exactly, The Israelies are peaceful. And some of Israel's population are Islamic even Christian(He did live there ) not just Jewish.

you are just joking right? You may be the first person in quite some time to suggest the israelies are peaceful, especially toward their neighbors.

... I don't get that? The Israelies have done nothing but defend themselves when it comes to war. They have been invaded many times in the past couple hundred years. They have done next to nothing about it. I fail to see what you are talking about.

[radiojake]

Ok, so until nothing kills us from the inside, we should ignore everyone trying to kill us on the outside. That is brilliant logic, I wish I had thought of that one on my own. There is an inherent risk in driving a car. There is risk in flying, boating, walking across a street, camping in the woods (bears and mountain lions depending on where you go). There is risk in life. We know this. However, this doesn't mean we should be turning a blind eye to our enemies who would kill us abroad, and within our own borders.

Total Road deaths in the USA Source

2001 - 42,196
2002 - 43,005
2003 - 42,884
2004 - 42,636

total for those 4 years is: 170,721 deaths on America Roads

So lets be conservative and if I found a more updated source we have another 40,000 deaths in 2005, 06 and 07

So that total would be approx 290,000 deaths. IN AMERICA

So lets re-cap

9/11 attacks 2,974 deaths and 24 missing still (lets say they're dead now)

2,998 American Civilian deaths at 9/11 attacks.
290,000 American Civilian deaths as a result from car accidents from 2001


Which of these should be more worrying to you?

Plus the fact that nearly 4000 American troops have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since this war on terror.

EVEN THAT IS MORE THAN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THE 9/11 ATTACKS.

And lets not even begin with the Iraqi and Afghani civilian population.

This war isn't about saving anyone's lives of freedoms. If you believe that you are a twat.

It's about some very rich and powerful men wanting to be even richer. End story

[got tonkaed]

Exactly, The Israelies are peaceful. And some of Israel's population are Islamic even Christian(He did live there ) not just Jewish.

you are just joking right? You may be the first person in quite some time to suggest the israelies are peaceful, especially toward their neighbors.

... I don't get that? The Israelies have done nothing but defend themselves when it comes to war. They have been invaded many times in the past couple hundred years. They have done next to nothing about it. I fail to see what you are talking about.

I would seriously suggest that you study some recent middle eastern history because first, Israel has not been a jewish state for centuries yet, and they certainly have not only engaged in defensive stances. You can argue to the ends of the earth whether or not their stances are justified because of their neighbors, but to claim that they are peaceful or have done next to nothing about it, is woefully inaccurate of any ones history, irrelavant of bias.

[Nobunaga]

I am Dutch. I just live in Canada.

Now try and come up with a real argument instead of a misguided ad hominem attack.

... Dutch, eh?

... I have no argument. What was the topic?

... It's funny, the Japanese have Marijuana-shaped car fresheners.. they're everywhere... they all seem to think they're maple leaves.

...

[Strife]

Exactly, The Israelies are peaceful. And some of Israel's population are Islamic even Christian(He did live there ) not just Jewish.

you are just joking right? You may be the first person in quite some time to suggest the israelies are peaceful, especially toward their neighbors.

... I don't get that? The Israelies have done nothing but defend themselves when it comes to war. They have been invaded many times in the past couple hundred years. They have done next to nothing about it. I fail to see what you are talking about.

I would seriously suggest that you study some recent middle eastern history because first, Israel has not been a jewish state for centuries yet, and they certainly have not only engaged in defensive stances. You can argue to the ends of the earth whether or not their stances are justified because of their neighbors, but to claim that they are peaceful or have done next to nothing about it, is woefully inaccurate of any ones history, irrelavant of bias.

I see, your side. And every bit has come from Wikipedia. That's fine. And since you believe so, I'm leaveing. I have no reason to argue when I know whats what. Good Luck with changing history.

[Koesen]

... I have no argument. ...

That's obvious.

[Gold Knight]

Ok, so until nothing kills us from the inside, we should ignore everyone trying to kill us on the outside. That is brilliant logic, I wish I had thought of that one on my own. There is an inherent risk in driving a car. There is risk in flying, boating, walking across a street, camping in the woods (bears and mountain lions depending on where you go). There is risk in life. We know this. However, this doesn't mean we should be turning a blind eye to our enemies who would kill us abroad, and within our own borders.

Total Road deaths in the USA Source

2001 - 42,196
2002 - 43,005
2003 - 42,884
2004 - 42,636

total for those 4 years is: 170,721 deaths on America Roads

So lets be conservative and if I found a more updated source we have another 40,000 deaths in 2005, 06 and 07

So that total would be approx 290,000 deaths. IN AMERICA

So lets re-cap

9/11 attacks 2,974 deaths and 24 missing still (lets say they're dead now)

2,998 American Civilian deaths at 9/11 attacks.
290,000 American Civilian deaths as a result from car accidents from 2001


Which of these should be more worrying to you?

Plus the fact that nearly 4000 American troops have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since this war on terror.

EVEN THAT IS MORE THAN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THE 9/11 ATTACKS.

And lets not even begin with the Iraqi and Afghani civilian population.

This war isn't about saving anyone's lives of freedoms. If you believe that you are a twat.

It's about some very rich and powerful men wanting to be even richer. End story

If your so worryied about people dying while driving, dont drive...

Seriously, you talk about topics not relating to each other, bringing in this topic is more irrelevant than Serbia's argument. And dont try to say Americans are the bad guys for Gitmo. If any other country was in the situation America was in today, Im sure they wouldnt have a nice cozy place for the terrorists to stay.

Yeah, Americans are well aware that shit happens that we dont hear about... such is the same in every other country. I dont care if you live in fucking Antartica, part of the government's job is keeping the peace. If they told their people every fucked up way a person dies, the world would be in chaos.

[got tonkaed]

its not a wikipedia argument...perhaps i was mistaken in whatever your interpretation is, but frankly you are incorrect in a lot of your understandings of the jewish-palestinan conflict if you think that israel is always the good guy.

What about the likart (sp) party platforms as recently as the 1960's? There is so much evidence of efforts to be antagonistic by israel that you simply cannot make the assertions you make.

Perhaps you are an expert on the issue, if so, please clairfy the statements that you made earlier, instead of running away because someone challenges something you say.

[Nobunaga]

... I have no argument. ...

That's obvious.

... Ahhhh... go smoke another joint and read some Marx.

...

[Serbia]

more on the road kills...

Thanks Jake. You have no answer except to go back to beating this drum. Talk about something that really has nothing to do with anything. But hey, if you want to keep digging up useless info, get me the deaths in the USA from colon cancer, train-automoblie accidents, and logging accidents, if you please.

Also, did you not see my question on your heritage, or did you purposely ignore it?

[Koesen]

... I have no argument. ...

That's obvious.

... Ahhhh... go smoke another joint and read some Marx.

...

I don't do drugs and I don't believe in communism.

I have given a number of reasons for why I have my point of view. You have advanced exactly zero reasons why you think I'm wrong. All you do is repeat brainless, uninformed and irrelevant prejudices.

Is that all you are capable of?

[radiojake]

Seriously, you talk about topics not relating to each other, bringing in this topic is more irrelevant than Serbia's argument. And dont try to say Americans are the bad guys for Gitmo. If any other country was in the situation America was in today, Im sure they wouldnt have a nice cozy place for the terrorists to stay.

Yeah, Americans are well aware that shit happens that we dont hear about... such is the same in every other country. I dont care if you live in fucking Antartica, part of the government's job is keeping the peace. If they told their people every fucked up way a person dies, the world would be in chaos.

I was pointing out that the actions by the American government aren't about saving lives, and used the road toll data to help convey my point.

I'm not suggesting that Guatanamo Bay should be a hotel suite set up for the prisoners, but Geneva Convention Human right protections should still be in place. Plus half the people in there committed the unfortunate crime of being Arab. (oh no!)

The government's job is to be perceiving to keep the peace. Their main goal is to stay in power though. They don't give a f*ck about people. That's what I'm trying to get through.

[Nobunaga]

... I have no argument. ...

That's obvious.

... Ahhhh... go smoke another joint and read some Marx.

...

I don't do drugs and I don't believe in communism.

I have given a number of reasons for why I have my point of view. You have advanced exactly zero reasons why you think I'm wrong. All you do is repeat brainless, uninformed and irrelevant prejudices.

Is that all you are capable of?

... Pretty much.

... As nobody here can be bothered to listen.

...

[got tonkaed]

There was actually a pretty decent HBO special that i started (ended up falling asleep halfway though) on Abu Gharib pretty recently and some of the things that went on there. It did show pretty clearly that American policy at the time was certainly not that concerned with the Geneva Conventions. I think that may change in the majority of cases due to bad press, but anyone who denies that we committed some pretty serious errors, is being a bit dishonest with themselves.

[Koesen]

... Pretty much.

... As nobody here can be bothered to listen.
...

Listen to what? You haven't said anything yet.

[Serbia]

RadioJake, are you an Arab?

Before you go claiming I'm a racist, I have friends who are Arab, I know many Arabs. Detroit has a large Arab and Chaldean populations, look up Dearborn if you don't believe me. And no, those locked up in Gitmo are not there simply because they are Arabs. Grow up, and stop hating so much. You'll enjoy life much more.

[Gold Knight]

Seriously, you talk about topics not relating to each other, bringing in this topic is more irrelevant than Serbia's argument. And dont try to say Americans are the bad guys for Gitmo. If any other country was in the situation America was in today, Im sure they wouldnt have a nice cozy place for the terrorists to stay.

Yeah, Americans are well aware that shit happens that we dont hear about... such is the same in every other country. I dont care if you live in fucking Antartica, part of the government's job is keeping the peace. If they told their people every fucked up way a person dies, the world would be in chaos.

I was pointing out that the actions by the American government aren't about saving lives, and used the road toll data to help convey my point.

I'm not suggesting that Guatanamo Bay should be a hotel suite set up for the prisoners, but Geneva Convention Human right protections should still be in place. Plus half the people in there committed the unfortunate crime of being Arab. (oh no!)

The government's job is to be perceiving to keep the peace. Their main goal is to stay in power though. They don't give a f*ck about people. That's what I'm trying to get through.

Alright buddy, lets see the proof of this. Thats clearly an opinion-based statement made by someone who thinks the government wronged them and they could do a better job.

Also with the Geneva convention comment, how about the Middle Eastern countries? Do they not have to follow it? How should we be expected to just hold onto their prisoners when they constantly drive bombs into our envoys? Thats just as bad as keeping them in Gitmo and torturing them if you ask me.

Once again, not saying what we do in Cuba is right in any sort, but dont act like we are doing such a terrible thing. It goes on all around the world.

[got tonkaed]

RadioJake, are you an Arab?

Before you go claiming I'm a racist, I have friends who are Arab, I know many Arabs. Detroit has a large Arab and Chaldean populations, look up Dearborn if you don't believe me. And no, those locked up in Gitmo are not there simply because they are Arabs. Grow up, and stop hating so much. You'll enjoy life much more.

not that i dont agree with everything you said specifically about detroit...but youd be the first person to claim that your free from being a racist by living near detroit. Speaking of which, which suburb are you from, ive meant to ask and never have.

also ps. im not going to ever directly discuss israel with you because we disagree and we are almost sort of buddies with the whole detroit sports thing.