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The Republican Debates were on tonight, who won

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who won the debate tonight

 
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Postby Titanic on Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:41 pm

xtratabasco wrote:
DaGip wrote:Nobody is answering the question yet. :?





McCain was the funny man, but tired

Rudi was his unstable, criminal self

Fred was a bore as usual

and Ron was a little shaky


bascilly it was a "hate hillary" love fest for all except Ron Paul just stuck to the Constitution and for the first time he said the Federal Reserve was owned by European private companies and our money is phony printed up crap, which was long needed. He said we need to get rid of the Federal Reserve which is steeling from us in interest payments and get back to the gold standard, before 1935 when the Feds came into being.


Gold standard? You idiot, its to risky to base your currency on gold standard. They tried that in the 18th/19th century and it failed very badly.

Also, European private companies own the Fed..lmao, that really made me laugh. nice one.
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Postby xtratabasco on Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:48 pm

Titanic wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:
DaGip wrote:Nobody is answering the question yet. :?





McCain was the funny man, but tired

Rudi was his unstable, criminal self

Fred was a bore as usual

and Ron was a little shaky


bascilly it was a "hate hillary" love fest for all except Ron Paul just stuck to the Constitution and for the first time he said the Federal Reserve was owned by European private companies and our money is phony printed up crap, which was long needed. He said we need to get rid of the Federal Reserve which is steeling from us in interest payments and get back to the gold standard, before 1935 when the Feds came into being.


Gold standard? You idiot, its to risky to base your currency on gold standard. They tried that in the 18th/19th century and it failed very badly.

Also, European private companies own the Fed..lmao, that really made me laugh. nice one.



laugh it up chuckles

no fiat system has lasted longer than 100 years and were pushing our luck now, we got on it in 1935. and yes the Federal Reserve is about as Federal as Federal Express. go check it out.

The Federal Reserve is owned by foreign banks. They lend us the money to have wars or go to the moon, or build damns.

They collect the interest on these loans, that is why this country is broke and other countries are starting to own our infrastructure, just like the climax mine in Leadville, it is the largest lead/silver mine in the US and guess who owns it? China....

pretty funny huh....


dumbmotherfucker
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Postby got tonkaed on Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:52 pm

yes but are you suggesting that we can really back all our currency with the gold standard?

or even that such a switch wouldnt shock the entire world economy which bases a fair amount of investment from investor confidence.

The sheer notion that a country would try to revert back to the gold standard would probably cause an economic drop that would take quite some time to recover from.
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Postby xtratabasco on Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:53 pm

got tonkaed wrote:yes but are you suggesting that we can really back all our currency with the gold standard?

or even that such a switch wouldnt shock the entire world economy which bases a fair amount of investment from investor confidence.

The sheer notion that a country would try to revert back to the gold standard would probably cause an economic drop that would take quite some time to recover from.



ohh so lets just let the printed up fake dollar with no backing continue to slide in to the shithole.

remember Hitlers pre-war Germany?

a trillion marks couldnt buy you a fucking apple, and it wasnt backed by gold either.

or how about a million dinars, I bought that much on ebay for 40 bucks


Canadas dollar is worth more than the US dollar in the first time in history, it wont be long before the fucking peso kicks its ass too.
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Postby got tonkaed on Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:57 pm

xtratabasco wrote:
got tonkaed wrote:yes but are you suggesting that we can really back all our currency with the gold standard?

or even that such a switch wouldnt shock the entire world economy which bases a fair amount of investment from investor confidence.

The sheer notion that a country would try to revert back to the gold standard would probably cause an economic drop that would take quite some time to recover from.



ohh so lets just let the printed up fake dollar with no backing continue to slide in to the shithole.

remember Hitlers pre-war Germany?

a trillion marks couldnt buy you a fucking apple, and it wasnt backed by gold either.

or how about a million dinars, I bought that much on ebay for 40 bucks


yes of course i do, and it only highlights the absurdity of your claim.

yes the dollar is increasingly losing out to currency in many parts of the world, but for one second to claim that changing things to the gold standard will do anything but crash the economy, is somewhat naive and lacks the knowledge you would expect someone to have who spends so much time dissecting the federal reserve.

soverignity issues are certainly worth discussing and you may be right about, but youll make yourself look foolish if you seriously advocate the gold standard.
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Postby xtratabasco on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:01 pm

got tonkaed wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:
got tonkaed wrote:yes but are you suggesting that we can really back all our currency with the gold standard?

or even that such a switch wouldnt shock the entire world economy which bases a fair amount of investment from investor confidence.

The sheer notion that a country would try to revert back to the gold standard would probably cause an economic drop that would take quite some time to recover from.



ohh so lets just let the printed up fake dollar with no backing continue to slide in to the shithole.

remember Hitlers pre-war Germany?

a trillion marks couldnt buy you a fucking apple, and it wasnt backed by gold either.

or how about a million dinars, I bought that much on ebay for 40 bucks


yes of course i do, and it only highlights the absurdity of your claim.

yes the dollar is increasingly losing out to currency in many parts of the world, but for one second to claim that changing things to the gold standard will do anything but crash the economy, is somewhat naive and lacks the knowledge you would expect someone to have who spends so much time dissecting the federal reserve.

soverignity issues are certainly worth discussing and you may be right about, but youll make yourself look foolish if you seriously advocate the gold standard.



give me some examples of where the gold standard ever failed its populas without using, if there is an example, of out and out theft by their leaders.
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Postby got tonkaed on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:04 pm

the gold standard is quite clearly out of date given the large amount of currency it would have to back in the 21st century economic system that is used by the united states. If you can find me some stats for current nations who have a gdp of even half the united states that used the gold standard i will think of you as less of a fool.

Populist history obviously should not be looked at as something we should be doing today, its a slightly different world out there now than it was then. Your being silly xtra, moreso than in your conspiracy threads.
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Postby xtratabasco on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:12 pm

got tonkaed wrote:the gold standard is quite clearly out of date given the large amount of currency it would have to back in the 21st century economic system that is used by the united states. If you can find me some stats for current nations who have a gdp of even half the united states that used the gold standard i will think of you as less of a fool.

Populist history obviously should not be looked at as something we should be doing today, its a slightly different world out there now than it was then. Your being silly xtra, moreso than in your conspiracy threads.



the reason the GDP and dollar value is out of wack is exactly why we need to be on a gold standard. The value of Gold has never changed but the value of the fake, printed up dollar has.

and thats not silly. just ask the people of Japan how their fiat money is doing for them in the last 30 years, eventually the US dollar wont be worth a pinto bean.

and I was wrong it wasnt 1935 it was 1933 (and I thought you would bring up the depression as an example)
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Postby got tonkaed on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:17 pm

you would certainly have to change the amount of gold reserves then....the current american amount of gold reserves is valued at 164 billion dollars.

here is the current national income amount

9679.7 billion dollars.

clearly the gold reserves would be able to back up something that is more than 10x the amount of gold we currently have in reserve.
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Postby xtratabasco on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:24 pm

got tonkaed wrote:you would certainly have to change the amount of gold reserves then....the current american amount of gold reserves is valued at 164 billion dollars.

here is the current national income amount

9679.7 billion dollars.

clearly the gold reserves would be able to back up something that is more than 10x the amount of gold we currently have in reserve.



If you listen to money shows or read about money ALL the experts are saying to get out of the dollar, weather it be buying silver or gold or another countries currency they say your crazy to keep your holdings in the US dollar, even the FED chairman and the last one Greenspan are dissing the US dollar.

this is scary because the amero (google it) has been in the works for some time.









This is a simple 5 minute video that explains it. Note the kids making Greenspan scurry away don't have a PhD.


http://www.infowars.com/articles/econom ... ry_mob.htm


I think short of a Revolution, Ron Paul is our only hope.
Last edited by xtratabasco on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby got tonkaed on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:29 pm

i dont disagree with you at all about the fact that our dollar is getting crushed all over the place right now. Yes the dollar is in trouble and there needs to be work done in order to make it more stable.

However to suggest that the gold standard is the answer to this, essentially does nothing (since there currently isnt enough in reserve to do this) and creates an investment scare that pretty much derails all sorts of things.

I am certainly no advanced economist but there is nothing out there that i can get my hands on that suggests there is a viable solution provided by the gold standard....the amount and what it covers just doesnt match up.

Therefore, if ron paul is advocating this as a way to bail out the dollar, ron paul loses a fair amount of economic credibilty in my book.
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Postby xtratabasco on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:40 pm

got tonkaed wrote:i dont disagree with you at all about the fact that our dollar is getting crushed all over the place right now. Yes the dollar is in trouble and there needs to be work done in order to make it more stable.

However to suggest that the gold standard is the answer to this, essentially does nothing (since there currently isnt enough in reserve to do this) and creates an investment scare that pretty much derails all sorts of things.

I am certainly no advanced economist but there is nothing out there that i can get my hands on that suggests there is a viable solution provided by the gold standard....the amount and what it covers just doesnt match up.

Therefore, if ron paul is advocating this as a way to bail out the dollar, ron paul loses a fair amount of economic credibilty in my book.



its called order out of chaos

they create the chaos and offer a solution and bring order



after the dollar falls, and it will, here is your answer


Union of North America (UNA) Amero Patterns
http://www.designscomputed.com/coins/amero.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98





IMF Badmouths The Dollar In Open Attack On American Middle Class
As part of broader elitist strategy to lower living standards and
create two-caste Chinese model

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, October 19, 2007


Mirroring recent rhetoric from Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernanke and Henry
Paulson, the IMF has publicly badmouthed the dollar, claiming it is
"overvalued" despite the fact it has lost over half of its value
against the Euro since 2001, and predicts its plunge as part of a
broader strategy to sink the American middle class.

Countering the pleas of the French and other eurozone countries, who
have been forced to beg Bernanke to restore some trust in the
greenback as EU exports begin to feel the bite, the IMF has openly and
enthusiastically given the green light for traders to continue to sell
the dollar.

"The Fund thinks that the US current account deficit will remain close
to 1.5 per cent of world output until 2012, raising the likelihood of
a disorderly plunge in the dollar and protectionism growing over the
next few years," reports the Financial Times.


In their World Economic Outlook brief, the IMF brazenly states that
the agenda in continually badmouthing the dollar is to exalt the
Chinese Renminbi in order to contribute to "a necessary rebalancing of
demand and to an orderly unwinding of global imbalances."

In layman's terms, this means lowering the living standards of the
American middle class by tanking the dollar and sending oil prices
skyrocketing towards $200, as part of the "post-industrial revolution"
agreed upon by the Bilderberg Group. This would eviscerate the middle
class and create a two-caste system based upon the Chinese model,
where the super-rich live in opulence and the rest of the population
are forced to struggle on the poverty line.

With the effects of the credit crunch hitting more and more lower
level lenders, it is clear to see that the fallout is spreading and
propagating a general decline. We are seeing the unfolding of an
overall meltdown that represents a gutting of the United States by
neo-mercantilist institutions bent on the formation of a new global
monopoly.


The ceaseless bad-mouthing of the dollar in public is clearly part of
an orchestrated move to destroy the U.S. economy and pave the way for
the Euro to become the world's reserve currency, eventually heralding
the birth of the Amero - the currency of the North American Union.

Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan has also been active trashing the
greenback over the last two months, in September stating that the Euro
would replace the dollar as the global reserve currency of choice.

Also last month, Congressman Ron Paul slammed Federal Reserve Chairman
Ben Bernanke for deliberately depreciating the value of the dollar to
artificially bail out Wall Street while poor and middle class people
lose their homes and have their living standards lowered (watch below).

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=AeHWW5gbc0w

Paul questioned how it could ever be morally justifiable to
deliberately depreciate the dollar and pointed out the fact that the
dollar collapse was a deliberate policy on behalf of the Fed.

We are witnessing the unfolding of a crash precisely as former World
Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph
Stiglitz predicted last year.

RELATED: Greenspan Working To Destroy US Economy

http://www.prisonpl anet.com/ articles/ october2007/ 191007_open_ attack.htm
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Postby got tonkaed on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:49 pm

Again yes, the imf and greenspan are doing some pretty bad things to the dollar, and it could very well be part of the movement which hurts our middle class badly, if not cripples it.

But what is the realistic answer to this, the gold standard probably not being a viable option. Yes we have to spend much less than what we do right now, but how much are you going to cut from social programs, many of which may help invest in the people who are going to need new skills in order to hang on in the middle class? Clearly getting out of the enormously expensive foreign policy we have would be very helpful, but not sellable at the moment.

Ron Paul very well may hit the head on some of the problems that are going on in the country, however he doesnt offer very viable solutions in the sense than the are practically applicable or achievable in the current political system.
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Postby CoffeeCream on Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:15 pm

I don't know a lot about dollar value or being de-valued. My basic understanding is that in times when the dollar is being de-valued it means that there is going to be more investment in American products by other countries. Isn't that a good thing in some respects?
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Postby got tonkaed on Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:19 pm

CoffeeCream wrote:I don't know a lot about dollar value or being de-valued. My basic understanding is that in times when the dollar is being de-valued it means that there is going to be more investment in American products by other countries. Isn't that a good thing in some respects?


probably the simplest criticism of that notion is that as soon as you open yourself up to a lot of foreign investment, you assure that you can no longer provide soverignty on a large scale which is amongst the biggest concerns for those who are worried about the dollar.
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Postby Titanic on Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:53 pm

xtratabasco wrote:If you listen to money shows or read about money ALL the experts are saying to get out of the dollar, weather it be buying silver or gold or another countries currency they say your crazy to keep your holdings in the US dollar, even the FED chairman and the last one Greenspan are dissing the US dollar.


Every single economist is saying to get out of the dollar, and switch to gold/silver standard? I think you read it the wrong way around, because every educated economist would be 100% against going back to the gold/silver standard which ultimately doomed the western world into multiple depressions and financial crisis's.

Xtra, Ron Paul clearly lacks all economic sense, and so do his advisors. No econonmist in the Fed or IMF or WB or MPC or any other organisation would agree with what he is saying, its pure crap and he is trying to scare-monger to increase his vote count.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:42 am

Titanic wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:If you listen to money shows or read about money ALL the experts are saying to get out of the dollar, weather it be buying silver or gold or another countries currency they say your crazy to keep your holdings in the US dollar, even the FED chairman and the last one Greenspan are dissing the US dollar.


Every single economist is saying to get out of the dollar, and switch to gold/silver standard? I think you read it the wrong way around, because every educated economist would be 100% against going back to the gold/silver standard which ultimately doomed the western world into multiple depressions and financial crisis's.

Xtra, Ron Paul clearly lacks all economic sense, and so do his advisors. No econonmist in the Fed or IMF or WB or MPC or any other organisation would agree with what he is saying, its pure crap and he is trying to scare-monger to increase his vote count.



of course the status que economists would not agree with him because what they are doing now is criminal. The Federal Reserve is not owned by us the people or this government, it is owned by private foreign banks......go do some research.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:26 pm

DaGip wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Is there anywhere on the internet I could watch the debate (I had to work)?



I got it on the internet, but I heard it will be played on Fox later tonight.


Do you got a link, I didn't watch any of it. And who do you think won the debate and why? Nobody is answering the damned question! Once I watch the debate then I can post more. My feeling is that I am Pro-Paul...so I will probably think that he won.



http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/ron ... _21_07.htm
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:07 pm

Titanic wrote:
Rudi is anti-guns, pro-homos and abortion and a cross-dressing bi


But he dusn come to my house parties...why?!?
Anti-guns. Duh.
Wayne wrote:Wow, with a voice like that Dancing Mustard must get all the babes!

Garth wrote:Yeah, I bet he's totally studly and buff.
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Postby Titanic on Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:51 pm

xtratabasco wrote:
Titanic wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:If you listen to money shows or read about money ALL the experts are saying to get out of the dollar, weather it be buying silver or gold or another countries currency they say your crazy to keep your holdings in the US dollar, even the FED chairman and the last one Greenspan are dissing the US dollar.


Every single economist is saying to get out of the dollar, and switch to gold/silver standard? I think you read it the wrong way around, because every educated economist would be 100% against going back to the gold/silver standard which ultimately doomed the western world into multiple depressions and financial crisis's.

Xtra, Ron Paul clearly lacks all economic sense, and so do his advisors. No econonmist in the Fed or IMF or WB or MPC or any other organisation would agree with what he is saying, its pure crap and he is trying to scare-monger to increase his vote count.



of course the status que economists would not agree with him because what they are doing now is criminal. The Federal Reserve is not owned by us the people or this government, it is owned by private foreign banks......go do some research.


The status que economists? Who exactly does this include and not include?
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