cawck mongler

[cleveridea]

Suspect users: cawck mongler

Game number: 718492

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=718492

Comments:

This is not a multi or alliance complaint. If you can sift through this this player's guttural illiteracy, he shows a complete desire to be a multi and a willingness to participate in a point giveaway scheme (a la dugcarr). I have no knowledge that this player has already abused the site in anyway, but you might want to add him to your radar. Here's the comment that is a tip off:


2007-08-09 20:35:07 - cawck mongler: hey gren, if u want I'll play like 10 1 on 1s with u and let u take all my points (i'll lose on perpose), b/c get this faggot red, theres a little thing called proxies IT MEENS I CAN MAKE AS MANY ACCOUNTS AS I WANT AND EITHER PLAY THEM SEPERATELY OR HARVE
2007-08-09 20:35:27 - cawck mongler: ST THERE POINTS, I GUESS UR LITTLE PLAN 2 BE A FAGGOT 4 YEAR OLD PRICK BACKFIRED HUH


cleveridea

[cleveridea]

Am I to understand that making such offers are legal?

[wicked]

These kind of things are frowned upon, but until we have evidence that such a thing actually took place, all we can do is frown. From what I've seen of cawck, he's all talk.

[cleveridea]

These kind of things are frowned upon, but until we have evidence that such a thing actually took place, all we can do is frown. From what I've seen of cawck, he's all talk.

Thank you for the clarity wicked. As always, clarity is more important than agreement.

I believe the claim is all the evidence that is required to act. Unless a claim that someone else hijacked his account and posted without the account holder's knowledge. I think we can both agree that is not being claimed.

I would immediately and permanently ban for such a profound, blatant and unambiguous public display. Anything less is allowing anyone to completely undermine of the relevance of fair play and ethics expected when spending time and money at this site.

[AAFitz]

shouldnt this be the new title of the thread then

cawkmongler: suspected conspiracy to commit point manipulation[ ]

[wicked]

So in your opinion, if someone talks about committing murder for example, boasts about it even, and yet no body or evidence of a crime is found, then that person should still be punished, for talking about a crime? If you can find us evidence of cawck deliberately throwing a series of games, or of someone throwing a series of games to him, then we can look at it closer. Until then, it's all just talk, and doesn't mean it's actually happened. Can you see the difference?

[AAFitz]

I will say this, i do not think it was a clever idea to post that chat

you guys were having a little conversation about 1v1 games you complained about the map... then the other guy complains about the dice...then you complain that he was a complainer....

he was just chatting as were you... he wasnt blaming you for the dice...just venting jokingly

then you seemingly purposely delay the game because of it

cm, obviously joined to give you some crap about it because he felt bad for the guy and was messing around...

and now youre posting it as an actual cheat claim...

again... this entire thing was not very clever at all.. read that chat from anothers point of view... you look kind of foolish dont you?

[cleveridea]

[Wicked, by taking my point and carrying it to a larger scope to dispel my point, you've only reinforced my point.

Are you saying that threatening to murder someone isn't a crime until the murder is committed?

Your logic is flawed fundamentally. Try and call the White House and tell them you want to murder the President. Walk up to a cop and offer him $500 to murder your boyfriend. Do you disagree with how the Secret Service, the cop and the justice system would react?

Either it is punishable to offer to cheat in heinous ways or it isn't.

I believe that it is; you believe that it isn't. Also, I believe you speak for CC (correct me if I'm wrong). So, I think your values differ 180-degrees from mine.

Even though this site doesn't embrace such behavior, it clearly doesn't care beyond trivial lip service. It is what it is.

[wicked]

I figured you would bring up the pres, since that's the only instance I'm aware of where you can be arrested just for threatening to do it. But if you and I got into a verbal war of words on the street in front of cops, and I threatened to kill you, there's still nothing they can arrest me for... until you show up dead that is.

The murder thing was just an example. Talking about something isn't necessarily a crime.

[cleveridea]

Fitz,

I don't disagree with your analysis on why CM ended up chatting into the game as an observer. But who cares why? This is about what was said, not why there was a motivation.

Frankly, I don't give a shit why he posted that he wants to cheat like Dugcarr. CC shouldn't really care why. The fact is that he did.

And, CC doesn't care.

[AAFitz]

this is just a personal vendetta because he called you on your unsportsmanlike play, which was indeed your bad

cm isnt exactly einstien, buts its safe to say he wouldnt post that, and actually do it...

dont waste any more time on this... the info is all there, and youre the one that posted it

if cm is a multi, he will be banned...if he plays a bunch of 1v1's with the guy he will be banned... but for messing with you, i personally think he had every right... you were the bad guy in that game, and its all right there for anyone to see

[Coleman]

From what I've seen of cawck

She's seen a lot of cawck, so she knows what she's talking about.

Okay, I couldn't resist. Please don't hurt me.

While I know this is none of my business I don't want to see the moderators act like the police in Minority Report. Sure they should watch the person you reported until such behavior occurs, but you can't punish him for talking about something he didn't do, that's just wrong.

[cleveridea]

I used the "President thing" to make my point quickly, not because it was the only way to make it.

Your legal expertise is deficient. Threatening harm to someone is legally (in all 50 US states) is "Assault" in its very definition.

"Battery" is when contact is made.

Both are crimes of varying misdemeanor or felony.

[wicked]

You're right, a lawyer I am not! Apologies to those in the profession!

Anyway, thank you clever for bringing this up. If anyone happens to notice people throwing games to cawck, or to any other player, then we'd certainly want to know about it. I hope this thread also serves as a deterrant to anyone thinking about such actions, since throwing games is frowned upon, as it detracts from the gaming experience.

[wicked]

assault

A crime that occurs when one person tries to physically harm another in a way that makes the person under attack feel immediately threatened. Actual physical contact is not necessary; threatening gestures that would alarm any reasonable person can constitute an assault.

Last I checked, talking doesn't physically harm someone. I am curious now about it though, so can we have an actual lawyer or law student weigh in? I don't want to be arrested for threatening to harm clever.

[AAFitz]

seriously... its fairly evident the guy was messing around

it was meant in jest to get a rise out of you because you were messing with the poor freebie

obviously the mods will watch him now, and will ban him if he does anything...but to suggest they should do more based on telling you he was going to, when its obvious he was doing it just to mess with you is just ridiculous

talking about laws, and real crimes and presidents is just beyond unreasonable, especially since the SS will probably google such things, and actually find this thread, and actually make sure you arent a threat now

so dont blow this out of proportion, clever... you know the guy was messing with you... you know you were just trying to get back at him... live up to your name... drop this... the whole chat speaks for itself

[cleveridea]

Fitz,

You are full of non sequitors.

This is not a personal vendetta. I followed the expected and reasonable protocol that the site provides where a concern for Cheating & Abuse Reports are to be made. I haven't flamed with CM, pm'd him or anything that could be construed as personal. So you are flat out wrong there.

Don't waste your time trying to frame me as the "original bad guy". I started an entire thread outlining that I was in fact the bad guy. My crime was childishness not cheating. It just isn't germane, so wrong again to offer this as meaningful bent to investigate.

I don't think messing with me is cheating/abuse. I think laying out a plan offering to cheat is punishable (crazy me?). I never claimed that CM "messed with me". I claimed he undermined the site's integrity, not mine. Strike three, Fitz.

And yes, wicked has made it clear that following through on cheating is intolerable. I was very much upfront (clarity!) that I was not presenting anything more than an obvious and unambiguous claim to cheat with another player. Nothing more.

Obviously CM is an buffoon, and this excuses whatever verbal claims he makes to cheat. That is clearly the result of this thread.

[AAFitz]

again... no need to make it complicated

you messed with a guy(admittedly)

he messed with you(clearly joking)

you posted this(clearly vendetta)

he didnt cheat.. he jumped into a game and started messing with you

what he posted was of no consequence... it is not against the rules to state intentions to cheat

it is against the rules to do it

in your other cases, it is in fact against the law to state intentions to commit the said crimes, so therefore is illegal

so... since he only talked about it

cmongler: suspected of conspiring to commit point fraud
verdict: [ ]

Im not flaming you... im disagreeing with your posting of this, in light of why it was started in the first place, which was entirely your fault

so using your own logic of the law=CC and your baseball analogy

you lose... game over

[cleveridea]

assault

A crime that occurs when one person tries to physically harm another in a way that makes the person under attack feel immediately threatened. Actual physical contact is not necessary; threatening gestures that would alarm any reasonable person can constitute an assault.

Last I checked, talking doesn't physically harm someone. I am curious now about it though, so can we have an actual lawyer or law student weigh in? I don't want to be arrested for threatening to harm clever.

You are certainly right that talking about something isn't necessarily a crime, no matter what the talk is.

However, I'm also certain you can be convicted of an assault based only on your words. I think we can all imagine circumstances where regular real world people in real world situations where words alone are enough to be considered assault.

Bringing it back to the topic, credibility and circumstance must be considered when tackling whether words mean a crime has been committed. You've made it clear what your considerations have been. I have tried to make mine clear. We disagree, that is all.

P.S. You'll be hearing from my lawyer...

[cleveridea]

...you lose... game over

Yet another non sequitor (do you get paid for each one?). I'm not interested in "winning". I'm interested in justice.

I accept CC as the authority while not giving up my privilege to make my case. You seem to think that is an oximoronically-defined circumstance; I do not.

Clearly judgment has been made. I disagree with that judgement (however I disagree less than I did earlier in the thread). That is the end of it.

{edit} misspelled "winning"

[wicked]

*sigh* all that time watching Law & Order and I'm still not a lawyer. oh well, good thing this isn't real life!

[AAFitz]

well indeed justice has been served here then

you messed with a freebie and got called out on it

you posted clearly just in retaliation and got called out on it

you made an argument that he should be punished, and got called out on it

you tried to take the whole focus of your being an unsportsmanlike player, in a game, by making a cheating claim and got called out on it

you know it, I know it...everyone knows it...

use your latin and play lawyer all you want... the truth is all in the chat which you provided

now that is the end of it

[cleveridea]

Fitz,

I see you like to amp it up by welding your arguments as the binary weaklings of non sequitors and ad hominems.

Congratulations on your irrelevancy to this entire topic. Perhaps you should learn some Latin after all. It might improve your ability to make a point.

[AAFitz]

Clever,

I chose not to converse with you on an highly intellectual level of discussion on this. Though I am fully capable, I do not need to do so to get my point across. My point of course was clear as day: You did this out of revenge after making a mistake in a game.

I needed to post nothing to make this point, since you made it yourself when you posted the chat to that game, which clearly shows you losing control, and messing with a new freebie just for fun. I dont have to point that out, because anyone who can read can see the situation for what it is, which is why I have no problem posting.

The reason, I chose to post here, was to give you a hard time the same way you gave the freebie a hard time, who did nothing to deserve the treatment you so self-righteously bestowed upon him.

You also were criticizing the way cheating reports were being handled when in fact it was a bogus claim, and born of pure revenge, and devoid of any real desire to stop any kind of cheating. You were just presenting your arguments to detract from the facts, which again, are all there for all to see.

Upon seeing this, I chose to have some fun with you which I personally have enjoyed. You say I havent made my point, but I make it each time you post. It is that you are trying to weasel out of what you did, and try to blame someone else who is probably a third your age, who actually got the best of you after you proved yourself an unsportsmanlike player.

Im sure it was painful to be called out by someone named cawk mongler, when your name is cleveridea, so you obviously tried to salvage your ego and tried to get the best of him. You failed. He was clearly joking. And even if he wasnt, talking about cheating isnt at all against the rules. Multi-accounts are against the rules, as are secret alliances, and point laundering. Since he was only talking about these things, he was guilty of nothing, even though you tried real hard to argue that he was. You failed on your own comparison to the law, as I pointed out.

Now, I have clearly gone too far with this, but I have achieved my goal of not allowing others to read this thread without realizing your true motivations which you tried so hard to hide beneath your in-depth discussion, and inaccurate analogies.

You are in this thread trying to look as though you are a complete intellectual, under complete control, just doing a service to CC.

To that I simply respond with this: (its the copy of the game chat)
My point is in the chat, clear as day. And I didnt even have to brush up on my latin to make it.


true: way to kill six and lose none, this should be a fun game
- true: getting more and more interesting
- cleveridea: this would be my first and last 1v1 on this map...it all comes down to who gets the luckiest drop
- true: totally
- true: almost all two player games are like that, maybe 20 percent go past round 7
- cleveridea: these symetrical boards are much more susceptible to "best drop wins"
- true: whatever, I just got dealt a country on the drop and am going to lose by turn 6 cause my dice suck so fckn bad
- cleveridea: got a bad case of the whiny bitch dontcha?
- true: who talks like that are you a girl or just a little ...
2007-08-05 13:46:38 - cleveridea: lets see how long I can drag this out mr. freemie
- cleveridea: I think I'll go for a little walk
- cleveridea: good night. see you in the morning.
- cleveridea: mmm...this morning coffee is good
- cleveridea: Some more good dice like that and I might make it to Labor Day.
- cleveridea: good night. I think I need a good breakfast and then maybe a lunch, possibly dinner too - to contemplate my next move.
- cleveridea: one more bite of this delicious sandwich and I might be ready to begin my turn
2007-08-07 14:28:25 - cleveridea: this is too funny
2007-08-07 14:54:37 - cleveridea: this one might make it to Christmas!
2007-08-08 10:17:56 - wcaclimbing: Hooray for christmas!!!
2007-08-08 10:58:12 - cleveridea: see you again on Friday
2007-08-08 17:49:56 - cawck mongler: lol get a lif green u r retarded
2007-08-08 17:53:17 - cawck mongler: ps he prbbly doesnt care
2007-08-08 17:53:48 - cawck mongler: sry i meant red, grens not faggot
2007-08-09 07:17:06 - cleveridea: did you get your nickname, cock mangler from your boyfriend?
2007-08-09 08:39:01 - bilbo: LOL
2007-08-09 15:16:04 - cleveridea: I've lost the heart to continue...
2007-08-09 20:29:58 - cawck mongler: wow ur smart, making fun of a name that already implies i give fellatio to guys DURR UR HURT MY FEELING DURRRR
2007-08-09 20:31:10 - cawck mongler: and wuts worse is u changed the name 2 something that doesn't even imply that, wow your wit is making a mockery of me and everything my country, Iceland, stands for
2007-08-09 20:33:24 - cawck mongler: and once again I must say I'm impressed by your abilities to troll, making someone wait days to do something he probably doesn't even want to do PURE GENIUS you r truely a great troll
2007-08-09 20:35:07 - cawck mongler: hey gren, if u want I'll play like 10 1 on 1s with u and let u take all my points (i'll lose on perpose), b/c get this faggot red, theres a little thing called proxies IT MEENS I CAN MAKE AS MANY ACCOUNTS AS I WANT AND EITHER PLAY THEM SEPERATELY OR HARVE
2007-08-09 20:35:27 - cawck mongler: ST THERE POINTS, I GUESS UR LITTLE PLAN 2 BE A FAGGOT 4 YEAR OLD PRICK BACKFIRED HUH
2007-08-09 22:15:07 - turtle32: hey green, if he starts to win just deadbeat, it will be over in 3 days
2007-08-10 09:28:18 - cleveridea: great math there turtle, shows your towering intellect and understanding of how CC works.
2007-08-11 09:59:20 - true: gg
2007-08-11 12:56:04 - cleveridea: you're a better man than me. gg.

you based your entire cheat thread on this one line...talks of presidents law, and precedents in the legal system... now its all there for all to decide, if you clearly thought he was going to cheat...or if he was just messing with you, as you were messing with true

people can make up their own minds of course, but for me its pretty obvious this isnt a true cheating claim, and is just posted out of revenge

again, my point all along

[cleveridea]

You couldn't be more wrong on your point. You can't prove your point, and I can't convince you that you are wrong. This I'm sure we can both agree.

There is one obvious conclusion I've been able to make about you based on your participation in this particular thread. Rather than making salient arguments, you do try your best at making things personality-based as quickly as possible and then make sufficient quantities of lengthy rambling posts until you get in what I can only guess you feel is the last word. All this without actually meeting my assertions head on at any time.

I consider myself an ethical member of CC and based on its surface alone felt required to report CM's notes. I don't get your assertion that this is revenge because his cheating conspiracy wasn't aimed at damaging me in any real or imaginary way. Sure he called me names, but so did I towards him. Big deal, usual CC fare.

I've long had a half dozen or so freebie accounts that I've never used unethically, to test certain game play theories and such. So, I'm intimately aware how easily CM could do what he posted he was willing to do.

Fitz, I leave you with the last word, should you desire or need it.