What are your feelings on China's ban on Reincarnation

[Cronus]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20227400/site/newsweek/

In one of history's more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is "an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation."

Next thing you know, they are going to ban Jesus from transubstantiating into bread at communion and ban djini from the southwestern Islamic provinces of China.

[Skittles!]

How exactly can they ban Re-incarnation?

[cleveridea]

yet one more reason to say, "screw china"

[Hitman079]

How exactly can they ban Re-incarnation?

i don't know, but china is always afraid of outside influences or any "extremist" beliefs, etc. i believe they have a quota or limit for showing foreign films in their country (which is why RH3 isn't coming out there). and something about dancing for the olympics in beijing- "Partners will be switched regularly to reduce the chances of young love."

[2dimes]

I think communion is banned there, Catholic or otherwise.

[magneticgoop]

they are capitalist-communists they can do the impossible (to quote U2: cry without weeping, Talk without speaking, Scream without raising your voice

[Stopper]

That's impressive, but not as impressive as the Pope's abolition of Limbo. Catholicism F T W !!

[Skittles!]

That's impressive, but not as impressive as the Pope's abolition of Limbo. Catholicism F T W !!

The Limbo game? I'm sure it's a game.. Unless I'm horribly confused.

[Stopper]

That's impressive, but not as impressive as the Pope's abolition of Limbo. Catholicism F T W !!

The Limbo game? I'm sure it's a game.. Unless I'm horribly confused.

Wikipedia is your friend.

Catholicism > Communism!!!1!

[Skittles!]

That's impressive, but not as impressive as the Pope's abolition of Limbo. Catholicism F T W !!

The Limbo game? I'm sure it's a game.. Unless I'm horribly confused.

Wikipedia is your friend.

Catholicism > Communism!!!1!

Oh.. Wikipedia is my friend.

WTF with Catholicism

[Anony#1]

hahahaha

[OnlyAmbrose]

That's impressive, but not as impressive as the Pope's abolition of Limbo. Catholicism F T W !!

Another hopeless misunderstanding of Catholic belief.

Firstly, the Pope certainly didn't "ban" or "dissolve" limbo. He formed a theological committee to study the matter of whether or not unborn infants can be saved even though they haven't been baptized. If they can, then we can assume they go to heaven, if not, then we can assume they go to limbo.

The committee agreed that there is "considerable hope" that unborn infants can achieve salvation. The Pope agreed. He did not issue a decree abolishing limbo or even belief in limbo. He just said that he agreed with the findings of these theological scholars.

So, far from abolishing anything, the Pope agreed that there is "considerable hope". And the media had a circus over the incident, causing individuals such as yourselves to grow in your misunderstanding of the Catholic Church.

[vtmarik]

Well, let's see China ban reincarnation, when everyone reincarnates!

[Coleman]

I can't even begin to pretend to understand this. The amount I like China has decreased a bit, although I still like China.

[glide]

Yes Ambrose......I am one who certainly does misunderstand the Catholic Church.....I don't quite get how those pious twits can allow thousands of child molesting priests to be protected by the church, continue being priests, etc. Nor do I understand all the fuss about unborn babies being "saved" when no mention of all the unborn babies of nuns that were hidden away over the centuries is evident? And how about all the riches the church has, and all the starving people who are told they MUST contribute to those riches? I strongly believe in reincarnation, and if I'm lucky, I'll come back in a position to do something about the above mentioned "qualities" of the Catholic Church that are so conveniently skipped over. My favorite quote is applicable here: "We are all teachers, and what we teach, is what we need to learn. And so, we teach it over and over again, until we learn it." In short....to China: Bite me.....and to the Catholic Church: yer next. Bite me.

[Stopper]

That's impressive, but not as impressive as the Pope's abolition of Limbo. Catholicism F T W !!

Another hopeless misunderstanding of Catholic belief.

Firstly, the Pope certainly didn't "ban" or "dissolve" limbo. He formed a theological committee to study the matter of whether or not unborn infants can be saved even though they haven't been baptized. If they can, then we can assume they go to heaven, if not, then we can assume they go to limbo.

The committee agreed that there is "considerable hope" that unborn infants can achieve salvation. The Pope agreed. He did not issue a decree abolishing limbo or even belief in limbo. He just said that he agreed with the findings of these theological scholars.

So, far from abolishing anything, the Pope agreed that there is "considerable hope". And the media had a circus over the incident, causing individuals such as yourselves to grow in your misunderstanding of the Catholic Church.

I concede the point, that the Pope did not declare the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, to the Right Honourable Gentleman.

[Cronus]

That's impressive, but not as impressive as the Pope's abolition of Limbo. Catholicism F T W !!

Another hopeless misunderstanding of Catholic belief.

Firstly, the Pope certainly didn't "ban" or "dissolve" limbo. He formed a theological committee to study the matter of whether or not unborn infants can be saved even though they haven't been baptized. If they can, then we can assume they go to heaven, if not, then we can assume they go to limbo.

The committee agreed that there is "considerable hope" that unborn infants can achieve salvation. The Pope agreed. He did not issue a decree abolishing limbo or even belief in limbo. He just said that he agreed with the findings of these theological scholars.

So, far from abolishing anything, the Pope agreed that there is "considerable hope". And the media had a circus over the incident, causing individuals such as yourselves to grow in your misunderstanding of the Catholic Church.

You'll have to forgive everyone because when it comes to the Catholic Church, there is good reason to believe they might be slightly crazy. For example, the didn't give galileo a pardon for his crimes against the church (for declaring the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around) until the 1990s. Also, the declaration that the pope was infallible was not made until the 19th century. These infallible statements are referred to as ex cathedra, let's look at a few of them that have been declared infallible ex post:

"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved"

-Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff"

-Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302

"[The Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes and teaches that none of those who are not within the Catholic Church, not only Pagans, but Jews, heretics and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but are to go into the eternal fire 'prepared for the devil, and his angels' (Mt. xxv. 41), unless before the close of their lives they shall have entered into that Church; also that the unity of the Ecclesiastical body is such that the Church's Sacraments avail only those abiding in that Church, and that fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of piety which play their part in the Christian combat are in her alone productive of eternal rewards; moreover, that no one, no matter what alms he may have given, not even if he were to shed his blood for Christ's sake, can be saved unless he abide in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

-Pope Eugene IV, The Bull Cantate Domino, 1441


Let's also not forget that The Catholic Church openly admits and stands by its kidnapping of a six year old Jewish boy Edgardo Mortara http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgardo_Mortara. From the link:

Edgardo Mortara (August 27, 1851 – March 11, 1940) was a Jewish-born Italian Catholic priest, who became the center of an international controversy when, as a six-year-old boy, he was seized from his Jewish parents by the Papal States authorities and taken to be raised as a Catholic. The Mortara case was the catalyst for far-reaching political changes, and its repercussions are still being felt within the Catholic Church and in relations between the Church and some Jewish organizations.

LAST but not least, let us not forget that the Catholic Church has despised the concept of the United States from the very beginning. Pope Pius IX, who created the dogmatic "Papal Infallibility" in the 19th century also published the "Syllabus of Errors" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllabus_of_Errors.

From this fun little document, Pope Pius IX condemns "rationalism", "freedom of religion", "separation of church and state", "free public schools, which Catholics are FORBIDDEN from approving", and last but not least, he condemns "Free Speech".

Here is a full list of what he condemns in that glorius piece of Papal excrement http://www.reformation.org/syllabus_of_pius.html and http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

[Huckleberryhound]

Funny I've seen no uproar about this abuse of power, proof that true pacifism has no place in todays society. . . The squeeky wheel yadda yadda yadda.

[MeDeFe]

Highly entertaining post Cronus, you just made my day a lot more fun.

[glide]

Well done Cronus........all the bible thumpers should be forced to read your post........any chance we could have a few of the quotes made mandatory tattoos for some of the "father bad-touch" types? I'd be quite willing to assist. The only religious view that I'm adamant about is the viewing of "father bad-touch types" through a rifle scope. ahh....I feel better now.

[umanouski]

This does not surprise me, China is after all a Communist state and all they do is ban what they feel is different

[CrazyAnglican]

I think communion is banned there, Catholic or otherwise.

It may or may not be, but I heard recently that they have the largest Christian population in the world now.

[OnlyAmbrose]

In reference to Cronus:

I'm in a bit of a rush, so I don't have the time to read the Syllabus of Errors, though rest assured that I will in time. In any event, as it is not Ex Cathedra, it is not a document of Church dogma, and is thus quite possibly flawed. Judging by what you've written, I don't doubt that it is.

Anywho, neither of those statements you have listed are considered infalliable, or ex cathedra, because it did not meet the Requirements for Papal Infallability.

Check out this link for a list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Instances_of_papal_infallibility

[Cronus]

In reference to Cronus:

I'm in a bit of a rush, so I don't have the time to read the Syllabus of Errors, though rest assured that I will in time. In any event, as it is not Ex Cathedra, it is not a document of Church dogma, and is thus quite possibly flawed. Judging by what you've written, I don't doubt that it is.

Anywho, neither of those statements you have listed are considered infalliable, or ex cathedra, because it did not meet the Requirements for Papal Infallability.

Check out this link for a list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Instances_of_papal_infallibility

They are doctrinal statements though. Here is a list of all ex cathedra statements OUTSIDE of councils:

Leo I, Lectis Dilectionis Tuae, 13 June 449,
On the divinity of Christ.

Agatho, Omnium Bonorum Spes, ~680,
On the divine and human wills in Christ.

Boniface VII, Unam Sanctam, 18 Nov 1302,
On papal supremacy in the Church.

Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus, 29 Jan 1336,
On the heavenly destiny of saints.

Leo X, Exsurge Domine, 15 June 1520,
Condemning the errors of Martin Luther.

Innocent X, Cum Occasione, 31 May 1653,
Condemning the errors of the Jansenists.

Innocent XI, Coelestis Pastor, 19 Nov 1687,
Condemning the erros of the Quietists.

Clement XI, Unigenitus, 8 Sept 1713,
Condemning the false teachings of Paschasius Quesnel.

Pius VI, Auctorem Fidei, 28 Aug 1794,
Condemning the false teachings of the Synod of Pistoia.

Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, 8 Dec 1854,
Defining the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

also, Quantae Cura, 8 Dec 1864,
Condemning the erros of secularism and communism.

[A few theologians say these two are not technically ex cathedra.]

Leo XIII, Apostolicae Curae, 13 Sept 1896,
Condemning Anglican orders as null and void.

also, Testem Benevolentiae, 22 Jan 1899,
Condemning merely Naturalistic interpretations of Christian Activities.


Pius X, Lamentabili, 3 July 1907, also, Pascendi, 7 Sept, 1907,
Condeming the errors of the Modernists.

Pius XI, Casti Connubii, 31 Dec 1930,
Calling contraceptive birth control a grave violation of the Law of God.
Quadragesimo Anno, 15 May 1931,
Condeming materialistic socialism.

Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus, 1 Nov 1950,
Defining the dogma of the Assumption.

There haven't been any more since 1950.

I would like to draw your attention to Boniface VIII's Unam Sanctam which claimed

"outside of her (the Church) there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins"

which according to the Catholic Encyclodepia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15126a.htm, it is a statement on doctrine and therefore infallible.

Let's also not forget the sworn secrecy that bishops/priests must make with respect to Crimen Sollicitationis.

[2dimes]

I think communion is banned there, Catholic or otherwise.

It may or may not be, but I heard recently that they have the largest Christian population in the world now.

It must be a very different christian population from the one in North America.

I have been told by people that have been there that their church is somewhat under ground as the penalty for practicing christianity or even possesing a bible can be death.


cronus you forgot one.

There is no savation outside the church

Maybe Ambrose knows if the Church of Rome is set up there.