EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[Charle]

I meant for voting me lol. That comes across as insincere now. If you really thought I was scummy you would know what I was asking.

Is this were we would be with a town PMC on our side or is this exactly where a scum PMC wants us to be?

I think that answers your question.

I must say, that is not a bad statement at all. But, what else does he have to work with and we not? Very difficult game, just wish more people would contribute. Although what you mentioned might be true, I read pmc more contributing for town at this stage.

[Ragian]

Wait, so your vote for PMC is only based on the fact that he should've solved the puzzle singled-handedly by now with loads of players silent. That's very flimsy.

I'm happy that you're in the game, though. At least you're posting. (I'd also like to say that I like playing with Pixar, but he seems quite held up these days.)

Anyway, back to the above: Do you not find Strike a good player? Why do you choose PMC above him with your line of reasoning?

[pmchugh]

I meant for voting me lol. That comes across as insincere now. If you really thought I was scummy you would know what I was asking.

I did, just wanted to see your reaction and you did not dissapoint.

Let me put it this way: the game has been running for months and we are nowhere. Is this were we would be with a town PMC on our side or is this exactly where a scum PMC wants us to be?

I think that answers your question.

So I failed your "reaction test" by noticing that it was insincere, and proving that I can solve the game?

The fact it has been running for months actually makes it way harder, I don't get any sense of momentum. People can avoid posting for weeks and face no repercussions. A lot harder to spot slip ups when someone posts 7 one liners in 2 months.

[SoN!c]

Wait, so your vote for PMC is only based on the fact that he should've solved the puzzle singled-handedly by now with loads of players silent. That's very flimsy.

I'm happy that you're in the game, though. At least you're posting. (I'd also like to say that I like playing with Pixar, but he seems quite held up these days.)

Anyway, back to the above: Do you not find Strike a good player? Why do you choose PMC above him with your line of reasoning?

Read back every comment and timing when PMC posted. A subtile stick in the wheels.. A scum PMC must be thrilled with the dead calm wind in this game.

As to Strike, Strike mentioned he had RL issues (and that is a continuation of the previous game, he already mentioned that in there). And he does seems to be running on auto-pilot.


For all those reasons Strike for now is not our best suspect when we are looking for 3 scummies and there is a deadline in just 6 RL days..

So yes i find it odd when Charle says that PMC is more contributing "at this stage of the game". At this stage of the game the game is tilting over to scum being the favorites winning it.

It's a crucial stage and we are nowhere.

I think Max will be another town lynch and that is exactly what scum wants us to do. Why are we voting Max? Because Charle said his name sounded scummy?

Vot and King should decide who to lynch, i will follow but my candidate is PMC.

[pmchugh]

Claimed town
Vot - 10 posts
King - 0

Posted this week
Charle - 10
Pmc - 10
Sonic - 10
Ragian - 7
Dev - 2
Strike - 1
Fusi - 1

Not posted this week
Max
Kong

Replaced
Pixar - 4

[SoN!c]

Claimed town
Vot - 10 posts
King - 0

Posted this week
Charle - 10
Pmc - 10
Sonic - 10
Ragian - 7
Dev - 2
Strike - 1
Fusi - 1

Not posted this week
Max
Kong

Replaced
Pixar - 4

Very good work PMC, but only now when your under suspicion?

[pmchugh]

Total posts
Dev - 15
Max - 13
Sonic BEFORE he joined the game - 12
Fusi - 8

[Ragian]

@Sonic, I just don't agree with you vote. Moreover, I find it odd that you call out Vot for shite play and then say that he should be allowed to decide who we lynch. That sounds contradictory.

So...a bit of hypothetical play here: Are we thinking that scum a MIA, or that the MIA would predominantly be town players? It's worth pondering in relation to lynching and/or modkilling. Personally, I would at least post a minimum if scum, which leads me to be looking at Strike, Fusi, and Devante from PMC's list. Any thoughts?

FP'ed

[Ragian]

Total posts
Dev - 15
Max - 13
Sonic BEFORE he joined the game - 12
Fusi - 8

I'm used to Fusi and Devante posting more. Max is completely on par for his usual game play.

[Ragian]

Claimed town
Vot - 10 posts
King - 0

Posted this week
Charle - 10
Pmc - 10
Sonic - 10
Ragian - 7
Dev - 2
Strike - 1
Fusi - 1

Not posted this week
Max
Kong

Replaced
Pixar - 4

Very good work PMC, but only now when your under suspicion?

Dude, you're tunnelling...

[pmchugh]

Claimed town
Vot - 10 posts
King - 0

Posted this week
Charle - 10
Pmc - 10
Sonic - 10
Ragian - 7
Dev - 2
Strike - 1
Fusi - 1

Not posted this week
Max
Kong

Replaced
Pixar - 4

Very good work PMC, but only now when your under suspicion?

I'm not really under suspicion, you accused me and two people came to my defence. I am not worried about being lynched, I am worried about the state of the game. I need to go to work, but let's start with the actual active players trying to work it out now.


Fast posted. I think MIA can be scum indicative but there are too many for all of them to be.

[Ragian]

Right now, I'm wavering between Fusi and Devante. Gotta go, too. Let's get this game back in gear. Nice having you here, Sonic!

[SoN!c]

@Sonic, I just don't agree with you vote. Moreover, I find it odd that you call out Vot for shite play and then say that he should be allowed to decide who we lynch. That sounds contradictory.

So...a bit of hypothetical play here: Are we thinking that scum a MIA, or that the MIA would predominantly be town players? It's worth pondering in relation to lynching and/or modkilling. Personally, I would at least post a minimum if scum, which leads me to be looking at Strike, Fusi, and Devante from PMC's list. Any thoughts?

FP'ed

Yes.

Dev: a RL Canadian farmer and its work season..

Strike: he already mentioned his reasons for absence in the previous game

Fusi: he had a great analytical contribution, then he went silent but his gameplay is completely on par for his usual game play. Without new info there is not much new to add and Fusi is a "if you don't have anything to say, don't do it here" kinda guy.

And Don't forget: In this game we are looking for 3 scumies that can chat in private all day long. This means the 3 of them will poke each other to post something when its needed. Thus generating more posts then the MIA townies who are on their own.

And Vot, he claimed town and confirmed King. And there are no counterclaims. So they get to choose. It's just 6 RL days left, and we need to get a lot of votes on the same page. That alone will be a hell of a job to do.

[SoN!c]

I'm not really under suspicion, you accused me and two people came to my defence.

Ragian will say im tunneling but we do are looking for 3 scummies

[pmchugh]

And Don't forget: In this game we are looking for 3 scumies that can chat in private all day long. This means the 3 of them will poke each other to post something when its needed. Thus generating more posts then the MIA townies who are on their own.

Given that vot is most likely town I think there are not enough active players for this to be true. I guess we could try see who posted right around when it was suggested to lynch inactives and not much else, that could be an activity tell.

[Ragian]

Yeah, but if they don't check the thread, why would they check the chat? It's the same argument. If MIA here, they would be MIA in the scum-chat.

EW just sent out a PM encouraging everyone to (@$£#) participate. If that has no effect within the next 24 hours, my vote will go to one of the non or almost-non-contributors.

[fusibaseball]

I try not to post unless I see a legitimate reason to and if my opinions will provide value to the discussion to steer Town in the right direction. That has always been my philosophy. I see a number of players misinterpreting pure volume of posts with actual value which I would caution against. As for now, the thread is just a bunch of smokescreens FOS'ing random people and not relying on actual data or leads.

I thoroughly analyzed Vot's claim about a week ago I think. I find it HIGHLY suspicious that he let the Swang vote go through after returning an idle result from his tracking night 1, especially for a player as vigilant and detailed as him. Please see my earlier post for my reasoning on this. However, I don't see a compelling enough reason for him as Scum to voluntarily take the PR just to draw out the real PR. I have been considering we could be on an entirely different row/column of the matrix, and this is an elaborate scheme from him and King to misdirect Town, but a real Town PR could come forward (for example, Jailkeeper from column C or row 4) to discredit this. Mafia Roleblocker is also an instance in all permutations, meaning Scum could not know with certainty which scenario they're playing prior to deploying the plan, making a double fake-claim less than fullproof. Without this guarantee, I don't think this scenario is what we are dealing with. I also want to make a quick note that the only other person I saw seriously consider fake claims in the thread was Strike which gives him significant Town cred for me. Yes, anyone can claim Tracker with little to no repercussions, but Inventor is a more difficult role to fake-claim. Being that both Vot & King haven't been counterclaimed in the interim, and my opinion is all players in this game understand that if they are the real PR they should have come forward to counterclaim by now, Votanic and King are confirmed Town to me.

However, I will say an important piece which is that while these schemes may seem "elaborate", scum in this game is likely quite a proficient cohort and is very much capable of some advanced deception. PMC and Charle deliberately non-killing in a recent game to validate a fake Doc claim and completely throw off Town was seen as too "elaborate" at the time even when it was the only viable chain of logic left. This maneuver won them the game as Scum. Townies should be careful to discredit unlikely approaches from Mafia and take a step back to try to see the bigger picture. There is a whole game being played of 3 suspicious players working in tandem, not just 1.

Now, onto the rest. Based on personal reads, flow of discussion across the earlier days, and where people's votes have ended up, I would not be interested in voting PMC, Charle, or Kong. PMC put in way too much groundwork Day 1 with LC for a Scum to be interested in doing. Charle makes by far the most consistent sense in genuinely problem-solving and his thoughts most closely align with mine on a broad scale. Kong has generally tracked with mine and Charle's logics and he avoids contributing to a lot of the noise and senseless crap thrown in the thread as well. Sonic is also virtually confirmed Vanilla Town to me based on subbing activity and Pixar's posts prior to exiting.

So that leaves 3 players who all have a pretty high likelihood of being Scum to me: Max, Dev, and Ragian. Devante had a post buried somewhere I can't find that mentioned him trying to redirect attention to himself as Vanilla and away from Town PRs, which I found to be somewhat Townish, so for now I continue to pass on him. I have spent the last few days trying to decide between Ragian and Max and for now lean towards settling my vote on Max for today. Sorry, but him being in his "Town meta" doesn't really carry much weight for me. He would be the best-case scenario to lose as Town being he provides little to no value, performs zero analysis or investigative work (and I've NEVER seen him do so across 3 or 4 games played together), and flippantly votes with little care for the consequences. Ragian has been rising in suspiciousness for me, though, since his whole argument Days 1 and 2 was to not use activity level as a marker for scumminess, and now conveniently seems to have 180'ed the script and wants to use it as the tool to witch-hunt his next target.

[Ragian]

What a long post. It really struck me as one of my students using chatGPT to say very little with a LOT of words.

Two things off the bat:
1) If your reasoning for thinking that PMC is town based on his groundwork D1, why does that not count for me then?
2) There is a HUGE difference between non-contributors D1 and D3. Surely, you'd agree.

[SoN!c]

Fusi is not interested in voting PMC, Charle, or Kong. Im pretty sure (getting a strong feeling) there is scum between those 3 but i also get why Fusi is not interested.

So Max, Dev or Ragian are his 3 choices. If you ask me Dev would be my choice out of those 3. I can easily see Dev playing the MIA if he would be scum.

And to be honest, also im way more afraid of a scum Dev playing MIA then i would be of a scum Max playing Max.

My 3 scummy list does not include Dev however but at this stage random voting on the possible suspects is just as good as any strategy compared to anything we can come up with. Also my 3 scummy list does includes Ragian so why Dev? Its Domino to me and without that first tile to fall its all just a wacky theory.

So unvote. Ill follow Fusi/vot/king

[Ragian]

Why on earth would you follow Fusi?

[SoN!c]

Why on earth would you follow Fusi?

Because his long post explains it all and town has to stay together

[Ragian]

All the stuff he said was already established. So it's his ability to sum up, then?

[pmchugh]

I agree with rag, although I am worried I keep doing that. Fusis post wasn't strong for someone who claims to reserve their thoughts for when they are meaningful.

Defending kong seems a strange one. Casting suspicion on vot who is like 99 percent town? It's so nonsensical. I want to vote fusi but honestly I don't think scum would try that. Probably wrong headed town.

[Ragian]

Vote Devante

I actually liked how Devante started out voting for Loose, but then he made some odd choices that made me suspect him D1 & D2:

I will also say, as I'm not a town PR, hypothetically, I would also not go for this nonsense. Let's make a road map for the scum guys, genius. I have never seen someone try to get themselves killed day 1 as much as you LC. I am doubling down on my vote

While I agree that LC's hypothesis was crap, it's very unfortunate to accuse someone else of giving scum a road map when you narrow down the pool of possible PRs yourself in that same sentence. Either way, Devante is "doubling down on his vote" until...

Didn't realize no lynch as majority is an option for now I will unvote then and go no lynch till someone seems more suspect

Unvote LC, Vote No Lynch

All of a sudden it's abandoned...I guess LC wasn't scummy enough despite the doubling down.

Hope you guys are right unvote vote DDS

Devante ends D1 1) voting for DDS (I don't think it counted, though) and 2) putting the responsibility on the ones driving the lynch (which includes me). This was probably done in order to do this D2:

I've been swamped in RL so haven't been able to contribute much but I'm not buying it. Something feels off on how that all went down end of D1 and with the switch. I threw my vote in not that it ended up counting but so a lynch got in before end of day but the switcharoo doesn't sit right especially after reading some of these D2 posts. I need to do a reread of everything so far and then post some thoughts. Deadlines not for a while right guys right so we have lots of time

The switch for DDS, which Devante was part of whether it counted or not, doesn't sit right with him. This really feels like scum blaming the onlookers while being the hangman himself.

Then Devante went MIA for the rest of D2 until he turned up D3 to say this:

Catching up on things. Not much here to go on. I'm fine with voting on someone who hasn't contributed much. I don't read Charle as scum so would refrain from voting there unless something shows later. I do find I'm struggling in this game with not much to go by other then having at least a confirmed town it seems with Vot and not much else to go by.

I will ask SONIC to refrain from posting here unless Mod brings you into the game. It's hard enough to have the time to go through things and a bunch of irrelevant posts don't help that.

At least Devante is fine with me voting for him

To recap:
1) Went hard after Loose only to abandon that thought for a no lynch, but still wanting a lynch.
2) Tried helping the vote on DDS (even if it didn't count) only to come back D2 to throw shade upon everyone else voting for DDS.
3) Has been MIA since early D2. My read of that is that Devante now feels it's less damaging if he just says nothing or tries to coast and appease.

[Kingm]

Vote Devante

You guys will probably ask why, and then my answer is twofold:
1.Its always fun to kill Dev
2.The 10-20 latest posts makes me most sus about dev