EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[pmchugh]

Sorry to hear that strike.

No drama in the game thread please, if I sound frustrated it's as a player not because of personal feelings. I like you all.

So it seems like vot is playing coy still but realistically there aren't many scenarios left and so that is kind of pointless. King and charle aren't scum together, which means king is confirmed town and we have a confirmed set up if i am reading the matrix corrctly.

Charle could still feasibly be being open and honest about actions while scum to try gain trust, not the most likely outcome, but not cleared. Either way, suspicions retracted.

[pmchugh]

Oh actually I am wrong, I.missed one of the town inventors in the matrix so there are two remaining possibilities still for setup.

[Charle]

Oh actually I am wrong, I.missed one of the town inventors in the matrix so there are two remaining possibilities still for setup.

Yes you are absolutely right, I missed that too. It could be matrix B as well with a 3 shot Blocker instead of Doctor. This change things slight a bit.

Vot, just before you reveal who you visited, I suggest the following Town action:
If we have the 3 shot blocker, please claim it and confirm that you visited someone last night or not. Vot will then know for sure if he visited scum or not. If we have doctor, please do not claim and save Vot (We will also know that Vot visited scum last night as doctor could not do anything on even nights).

We give it a day for the above and then make a decision? Any other suggestions? The guys are very quiet at the moment, it is as if only Vot, pmc, King and me play at the moment. Some more input would be appreciated.

Very sorry to hear Strike, do what you have to do and all the best during this horrible time. If you are town 3 shot blocker, please just reveal that.

[Charle]

The sad thing is that scum knows exactly the matrix and they have either the 2 shot tracker or the 2 shot watcher. Further more, scum knows which of the doc or tracker we have. Remember, scum talk to each other during the day, they will also know by now (if we have the doctor) that Vot tracked one of them and that person is history. If we have a blocker, they will only know for sure when our blocker revealed himself and Vot can confirm whether he visited that person or not.

Probably why it is so quiet in here, they are waiting for our outcome.

[Votanic]

Oh actually I am wrong, I.missed one of the town inventors in the matrix so there are two remaining possibilities still for setup.

Yes you are absolutely right, I missed that too. It could be matrix B as well with a 3 shot Blocker instead of Doctor. This change things slight a bit.

Vot, just before you reveal who you visited, I suggest the following Town action:
If we have the 3 shot blocker, please claim it and confirm that you visited someone last night or not. Vot will then know for sure if he visited scum or not. If we have doctor, please do not claim and save Vot (We will also know that Vot visited scum last night as doctor could not do anything on even nights).

We give it a day for the above and then make a decision? Any other suggestions? The guys are very quiet at the moment, it is as if only Vot, pmc, King and me play at the moment. Some more input would be appreciated.

Very sorry to hear Strike, do what you have to do and all the best during this horrible time. If you are town 3 shot blocker, please just reveal that.

[Ragian]

I'm so sorry to hear that, Strike. All my love for you and your family.

I'm at a festival. Last day today. I'm absolutely smashed. I'll contribute tomorrow (when sober again).

[Charle]

Vot, let's move forward. Our blocker (if we have one) had a day to come forward, so we can assume we have the doctor which is good news if our assumptions are correct. Doc to save Vot tonight.

I suggest we lynch the person who you visited, there is a damn good chance that he is scum.

[pmchugh]

If vot visited anyone but king we lynch that person, 100%.

Otherwise we are going to need some candidates soon.

[pmchugh]

Tried to start playing this game a bit different for a specific reason which I thought would benefit town but seems all I've done is bring unnecessary heat on myself lol, so either this will end up being great for town or I'll end up going down into the Sonic pool of bad townie. Either way I'll post my reads so far on everyone now that I've had time to catch up on posts but it's only D1 so I'm sure this will change

Leaning Town
Devante - because I am
pmchugh
Ragian
Charle
fusibaseball

Neutral
Strike Wolf
Votanic
DirtyDishSoap
Loose Cannon - was leaning scum but mainly because of his earlier posts, not so sure now
Maxleod
Trafalgarlaw01 - Would lean scum but not posting much D1 seems to fall in his MO

Leaning Scum
Swang918 - not contributing which is not usual
Kingm - Just a gut sense from his posts compared to the last game he played
kongming3 - similar to king here
*Pixar* - lean scum, but I just always assume he is

Can you elaborate on this from day 1 dev?

[pmchugh]

The vote swap to DDS at the eleventh hour was a little weird to me. How did 4 people come to separate conclusions within 4 hours that DDS should be voted instead of Swang? Seems like to me there's a layer of protection for Swang.

FOS on fusi for architecting the swang kill chain.

[pmchugh]

I've been swamped in RL so haven't been able to contribute much but I'm not buying it. Something feels off on how that all went down end of D1 and with the switch. I threw my vote in not that it ended up counting but so a lynch got in before end of day but the switcharoo doesn't sit right especially after reading some of these D2 posts. I need to do a reread of everything so far and then post some thoughts. Deadlines not for a while right guys right so we have lots of time

Also FOS on dev for backing up this rubbish idea despite being one of the very ones who did switch vote.

[pmchugh]

I would happily kill max at this point, only reason we haven't looked at him is people saying that he is in his town meta, when we have never seen his wolf meta.

[Charle]

The best lynch at this stage is the person who Vot visited. If we had the blocker, he would have appeared by now, so I am very confident that Vot visted scum IF he did'nt visit King.

The rest are just assumptions, so I am waiting for Vot's result. At this stage, Vot should only reveal who he visited and not who that person visited just in case we get Scum with a false claim as blocker, then Vot can confirm that with that person.

I guess we all waiting for Vot at the moment.

[pmchugh]

Pretty sure he visited King, because otherwise he knows one confirmed town and one confirmed mafia and is holding on to it for no reason.

[pmchugh]

One thing that could explain why this game has felt dead is the scum group includes the quiet players, they aren't trying to influence the game and there is no one in thread to be suspicious of.

Having said that, I am not ruling out more active players.

[SoN!c]

One thing that could explain why this game has felt dead is the scum group includes the quiet players, they aren't trying to influence the game and there is no one in thread to be suspicious of.

Having said that, I am not ruling out more active players.

Yes, this should not be the future of mafia games. Yes i can improve (a lot - i know, my first games was like riding a bike for the first time - your just happy your teeth survived, not thinking on winning tour de france ). A game that feals (=feels) *dead is death. There should be a fun LIVELY attitude. Always. Not a clinical dead "order is all".

Games should be fun like in the 80's - lionel richie jamming in the streets, feel good feel GOOD

[strike wolf]

Okay back kind of. Thank you for the well wishes. She was almost 102 and her health had taken a turn a few days before. So mostly we're just relieved that it didnt end up dragging out for weeks or even months.

Read through quickly. Probably missed key details and will read again later. Agree that any track that wasn't on King is likely Mafia.

Also, Son!c, I get that you're bored but could you please refrain from commenting so much in a game you aren't in. Thank you.

[SoN!c]

Okay back kind of. Thank you for the well wishes. She was almost 102 and her health had taken a turn a few days before. So mostly we're just relieved that it didnt end up dragging out for weeks or even months.

Read through quickly. Probably missed key details and will read again later. Agree that any track that wasn't on King is likely Mafia.

Also, Son!c, I get that you're bored but could you please refrain from commenting so much in a game you aren't in. Thank you.

I have to read all this as im reserve and i take that serious - last time im reserve tho! dho!

[Extreme Ways]

Okay back kind of. Thank you for the well wishes. She was almost 102 and her health had taken a turn a few days before. So mostly we're just relieved that it didnt end up dragging out for weeks or even months.

Read through quickly. Probably missed key details and will read again later. Agree that any track that wasn't on King is likely Mafia.

Also, Son!c, I get that you're bored but could you please refrain from commenting so much in a game you aren't in. Thank you.

I have to read all this as im reserve and i take that serious - last time im reserve tho! dho!

I appreciate it but please keep the posting out of it

[Charle]

Votanic, we are all waiting for you .... you still out there?

[Votanic]

Votanic, we are all waiting for you .... you still out there?

Okay, I'll try yo build up yet another head of steam on all this.

Though it does occur to me that all this fuss apbout PRs might just be a distracting tempest in a teacup.
Scum probably doesn't need to know anymore than it already does... and Town is always going to know too little, too late.
Still, we must try.

I agree with PMC that it is quite possible that Scum consists mostly of quiet players that know less is more when it comes to game posts,
...but then agai,n the quiet players could just be Townies that don't want to waste their time on a longshot win.

In any case, I disagree with PMC and Charle about disclosing everything about town intel at this point, but I will disclose this:
Plyer X is KingM, Player Y will remain unnamed. So much for PMC's claim that Player Y could be revealed without consequence...

TAKE NOTE: I am only revealing Player X's NOW, with this post, so Charle's earlier assumption (or scum-slip?) that I had visited KingM is rather suspicious...
Before now he made no attempt to properly explain why he assumed this... but one possibility is the Scum Watcher (either Charle or a compatriot) decided to watch either me or KingM last night and already knew that I had visited him...

Vote Charle
Is this a rash vote, maybe, ...but I'll leave it up for now.
If it generates any player interest whatsoever it will have at least served some purpose.

[pmchugh]

King, does your role state that the person you give your invention to knows that they received it?

[pmchugh]

Finaly some info so if what Vot says is true, then our matrix is 2, how this will help us find the scum, I'm not sure about, have to sleep on that I guess.

Ok King, with this post you actually soft claim either Town Inventer or Town Doctor (I don't think scum would reveal this info). You could not visit anybody as doctor so if Vot visited you, and you can confirm you tracked somebody last night with no result, then your result should confirm at least one town player (I assume that scum would used both their roles as watcher and blocker and the goon would have killed LC). Else you are the doctor and can protect Vot tonight if you are alive.

If Vot visited somebody else, then that person is confirmed scum, either the Mafia 2 Shot Watcher, or the Miafia Roleblocker, unless King is doctor and Vot visited town tracker but that can easily be confirmed at L-2.

@Vot, I think it will be good to reveal who you visited, as that person is our next lynch. Obviously King has to confirm that my theory is correct and that I read his post correctly.

Actually here is how Charle knew that King was the inventor, he literally claimed it. He said the matrix was 2, granted he must have also missed that tracker and inventor are in another line as a few others of us did.

[pmchugh]

Unless scum visited scum in order to throw town off course by town-confirming fellow scum. Hold your horses there, Charle...

So why would town block themself or waste one of 2 shot watchers on that if they are not even sure someone will track them? Do you really think that would be possible?

Anyway, I think Vot could have visited scum, and that can be confirmed by King or our Town Inventer. (Obviously if King can just confirm that I read his original post correctly - that he is either the doctor or inventor because he immediately knew we are on scenario 2 after Vot's Claim).

Yeah I'm one of those 2 roles

Okay then, and since last night was an even-night I don't think you could be the Doctor... so does this mean you are the Inventor and you gave one of your two inventions to another player last night?
And if so, how would you even know that the other player was Town? ...or did you just take a guess?

Then vot gave the game away here.

Charles deductions seem perfectly logical to me and not requiring inside knowledge.

[Charle]

Charle... I didn't say I visited KingM, where are you getting that from?

Well it is great news if you did not, I assumed by the following quote you visited him

Okay then, and since last night was an even-night I don't think you could be the Doctor... so does this mean you are the Inventor and you gave one of your two inventions to another player last night?
And if so, how would you even know that the other player was Town? ...or did you just take a guess?

I assumed that you saw movement at Kingm, therefore he could only be the Inventor and not the doctor. If you did visit him, then you both now know who has the one time role block received from King.

Anyway Vot, if you did not visit King last night then it is absolutely great news!

We now know that Kingm handed his items over and his role is not important anymore, same as vanilla, so he is safe for tonight. We can now assume that our doc will save you, but scum will also block you tonight and we have a 50% chance of killing scum blocker.

The point now is, only Kingm could visit somebody for town as Doc had an even night. If you did not visit King, then the person you visited is scum and obviously the person he visited is town. You will be able to reveal scum who we can lynch and we will have another confirmed town. Looks like we can work this out!

And the above is where I explained to you why I had the feeling you visited King, and I was obviously right.

Yes, vot, you cannot reveal who player Y is, as he has the blocker.

It is really bad news that you visited King, I thought we would have a scum hit here.

You are making another mistake if you want to lynch me, that I can assure you.

For now I tend to agree with pmc, maybe max is a bit more guilty.

Vote max