The Tick Mafia - JUSTICE PREVAILS!

[degaston]

Vote Count:

Razorvich : 7 (Ragian, *Pixar*, Extreme Ways, traffic133, DirtyDishSoap, fusibaseball, DukeHazzard)
swang918 : 2 (Loose Canon x 2)
Loose Canon : 0 ()

No Vote : 10 (Charle, Darin44, DukeHazzard, General Bax, Maxleod, PepeAtila, Razorvich, SoN!c, strike wolf, swang918, TrafalgarLaw01)

18 Alive, 10 votes needed to lynch

[strike wolf]

I mostly agree with DDS. We all know there is something weird about Loose but we can't do anything about it today and leave the situation for D3. So we should move to some other leads (Not that there are many of them).

I have about the same feeling as D1 but with some small differences. As we have learned a few things. If I understand correctly, the Mafia could not chat D1 therefore they didn’t know each other. So I don’t buy the theory that Loose jumped in Pix defense.

Loose - I mostly agree with EW that Loose powers are more townish, but as I said in another post, I can barely defend Loose anymore. I asked him again why he insisted on going for trade of claims when it would benefit the mafia. Yet he refuses to answer and changes subject to something else therefore I think he is 3rd party or just deliberately not helping town on purpose.

Sonic has been a little more townie than D1, but still not off the list. Now he seems to be trying to find more solid evidence to make a case, but then he still gets focused on random comments, throws random quotes, and still I feel he confuses town more than helps it. Like calling EW Loose Layer.

EW is townie to me, He is trying to use facts and analyze situations and even though Loos has red flags all over the place do not rush to call it a day. But actually try to figure more things out of it.

Pix has been much more quiet and far from his attitude D1 and still feel something is odd about him.

Raz is my number one suspect atm as he hasn’t said anything useful why not being completely inactive and I find it odd for his personality.

Fusi still is to me, I don’t think he just learned from his Godfather role but actually is more invested and feels natural to me.

Swang not much change I feel he was honest D1, not much change D2 I would like to know the supposed Loose theory about him blending in, but at this point I don’t expect a solid answer from Loose.

Charle - I disagree with DSS that it wouldn't make sense for him to go from Doc to Scum - It wouldn't make sense the other way around as a mafia would know other mafias at night, therefore the player cannot keep playing, but as we know he was Doc, so he must have submitted and action to protect other than himself (he cannot say who), and got killed, so he does not know anything. And Drake was the first player to be replaced even faster than now Max being almost mod killed and Bax who we said is dead weight, so can go anywhere tbh.

Bax and Traffic still death weight.

DDS is more townish to me today, and wants to move things forward and clarify things.

Strike, well probably a bad timing for me as he just had raised suspicions about me, But of the 4 players I said were hard to read (Strike, EW, DDS and Reg) he seems the more suspicious to me. He has been to town 2 times and in both games every time he found an inconsistency he would pound over and over till he got some answer, that way he found mafia's last 2 games, but this game even though there has been a lot of inconsistencies he does not pound after them.

No opinion on the others.

Which inconsistencies are you referring to because I admit I got s bit lost in all the Loose and Son!c and stuff and could have missed some things.

Yeah mainly with Loose, Sonic, EW disscussion I have not commented much as there is a lot of back and fort with mumble. I would need to check again. I remember u said why Loose didnt said before smoke was not his power, but you seeme to not care for an answer or perhaps there was no way to get it. Sonic and EW have said its one way or the other you seem to jump on the if Loose is mafia so is EW. I dont think rhats the case and would have expect you to think so. As I don't think that if EW and Loose were mafia they would be aligning so much D2.

I can think of a few reasons why a scum EW would defend Loose.

1. Loose is actually mafia and his role is powerful. Possibly more powerful than we realize and he felt the need to defend Loose as to not lose the power.
2. Loose is mafia but because he has an ability that is usually town aligned, EW thought it would be an easy case to defend him and get heat off of him without drawing much attention to himself.
3. Loose is not Mafia and EW thinking he could get brownie points off of defending a likely persecuted townie went out of his way to defend him.

In any case, the heat on Loose didnt disappear and EW felt that he needed to try to act consistent and stuck with the heavy defense. Overall, I don't really buy it completely myself and thus don't have Extreme on my scummy list currently.

I do think the Loose comment on it not being his ability is important and if he's telling the truth, the fact that whoever did save him hasn't revealed themselves is also interesting. Look at my posts chronologically though. I was gone about half the day, then made a post about my perspective of Extreme's reaction to my hypothetical about him appearing somewhat scummier if Loose flipped Scum and then followed it up with my Loose wants attention rant. I already had the idea that Loose wanted attention in my head when I made the response on EW and I didn't want to tread more ground on Loose as I said in the other post.

@DDS: I will say it should not be damning. It should be informing as all reveals are meant to be and the information it gives should be weighed against other information present.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I screwed up the quote somewhere but I'm too lazy to fix it.

So the Darin suspicions are admittedly flimsy and the lowest ranked of my scummy vibes list but it's mostly from these three posts:

I would like to vote but I don't want to jump on a bandwagon. just to get a claim from Pixar but maybe I will we just need more info

Joke stage is still going on. I think it's funny that 7 of you at one point want me dead already

I just want a claim

Vote Pixar

Could Charle have visited someone with a view to saving them, but had the bad luck to visit scum who took the opportunity to shoot him.
Sort of a no good deed goes unpunished thing?

Ok if this was the case then who did scum kill last night?

You are just getting sketchier and sketchier

Vote Loose Canon

and FoS Pixar for reasons in my last post

I will hold my vote for now. but I thank loose not voting so we can see if count or not is scummy. Pixar is still on my list of FOS

He went from not wanting to vote Pix just for a claim but maybe he would to, voting Pix because he just wanted a claim to saying he still has Pix on his FOS list. The first two were consecutive posts from him and the third was after only one other post where he basically said he didn't know what to think. His opinion on Pix and his wagon basically evolves for not much stated reason. Also, while I do sympathize with him for not wanting to stick hisneck out too much after what happened Day 2 of Elementary mafia, trying to avoid too much pressure is also a common mafia tactic.

I want to clarify something:

Thinking I got bailed out by Loose was a total coincidence. I was actually about to claim until I got fast posted by that vote count which made me retract my claim, because something was going on with Loose's vote. But yes I would like to see Loose vote for someone today just to see what happens. And how does Loose not being able to be lynched today "confirm" him as town? Maybe he's got one action to use all game and he used it now since he was getting pressured?

Because such an ability for mafia is very much overpowered. Loose also used his abilty when there was 0 pressure on him, so I dont think it makes sense as mafia to do so.

Not a townie that's helping, though.

So, I personally am uncomfortable with the idea on going after Darin, and that's not because of what he does is actually scummy, but in the sense that he just seems to be this way, regardless? I mean, take Elementary when I accused him. He just OMGUS me, my first post, then acted really defensively for the rest of the game until Dega came up with the GF theory.
Anything, sadly, that could be brought up against Darin, is that it's just Darin. The same argument with Bax. It's silly and stupid, I know, but it is what it is. Make sense?

Fast posted: Okay, fair point.

[SoN!c]

With that, it sounds like we're drawing the conclusion that Loose's flip is going to be damning one or more players.

I personally don't like it. I feel like that can go very, very wrong, very quickly.

Don't wanna scare you but that is about what Doc said before they murdered him.

by Charle on Thu Sep 07, 2023 6:19 pm

Reading through all of this over and over and in short I tend to agree with Sonic (who I think is cop anyway) ... it seems that Loose is defending Pixar both Mafia. I have a feeling that Loose's current "no vote" is going to hit us somehow and sometime very hard.

Also the mod said this :

After a tense night, The City awakens to find that the fears from the previous day were well justified.
Charle has been shot!

"The fears from the previous day were well justified"

I consider anything the mod says to be facts. This quote is either refering to Loose or to Pix or to both as that were the fears / toughts on D1.

So on that tought i would go back to Pixar. Raz was not feared as scum in D1. Also he needs just one more vote before Loose can swith and Raz has the 10 votes needed to lynch..

Yes i agree Raz is acting suspicious but what if he is realy deep into RL work?

And Ragian already pointed out there was an contradiction in Pix his word "about to claim" but on the same time saying "feeling no push" and laughing / bluffing it away emphasizing the bandwagon joke. It started as a joke alright but what if we got lucky?

Well in any case, the words of the mod seems the lead i can push forward on now we have to stall on Loose.

"The fears from the previous day were well justified"

vote Pixar

[Loose Canon]

I have read all your analyses since my last post.
If you are going down a rabbit hole with me., maybe, not necessarily , but maybe you are going down a rabbit hole with others - I dunno but then neither do you.

I said I would be willing to trade if I thought I might get something of equal or higher value.

So I repeat I'm prepared to soft reveal my identity if Swang is.

That way you get something to clarify your thoughts on me, but maybe better still some hard evidence on Swang who I have identifed as scum.

[Charle]

Was very busy past 2 days at work and now had a lot to read.

I must say, I believe Loose when he said that he did not know about his new powers, that it is not part of his role description and it was given to him by Mod. I think because he could not vote day one, gave him the power for a 2 vote advantage in day 2 and for that I am convinced that he must be townie, this power will be too unfair if given to scum. His smoke bomb ability was probably given to him by mod as well to protect the 2 votes he has today.

I am still thinking Pixar should have claimed at L-2 and I do not believe his "I was ready to do so" story. That sounds very scummy to me.

Raz is also very quiet for a townie, seems he doesn't try hard enough to find the scum, and so it Bax. I was so surprised to see Bax's post, at a stage I thought he does not speak English

So my list for scum at the moment is:
Raz
Bax
Pixar

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'll just summarize instead of directly quoteing Sonic.
We cannot use what the moderator has said in the past as a sure fire way to oust scum. Mods typically leave the night/day ambiguous, and mostly for flavor purposes. Unless a specific action was taken, I/E: Someone was shot or in the very recent circumstance; smokey cloudy immunity bullshit, we can't treat anything else a mod has said as concrete evidence, or even loosely based evidence.
Please, and I'm speaking out of experience and making this exact same mistake, do not use the mods flavor.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Also, DO NOT TRADE REVEALS, THIS IS STUPID!

Charle, ty for joining, can you tell us a full list of Town, neut and scum in more detail please?

[Extreme Ways]

first of all, unvote

[Extreme Ways]

I unvoted because Raz got to a theoretical lynch if someone votes and Loose changes votes. I dont trust Loose (the player) nearly enough for that to happen, and the 3P option is also not ruled out.

I understand strike's reasoning and I understand that I am almost fully aligning with him. I dont fully agree with the "If loose is town but EW is scum" deal because I feel like I'm succeeding in removing heat, but that's ok.

I disagree with Traf about strike not spotting inconsistencies. This game has been moving at a rapid pace and sometimes you just don't check in. I've gone to bed and missed about 2 pages of posts, it happens.

@Loose if you think Raz is scummy you should change your vote to him. We dont want you to surprise us, none of us trusts you enough for that and I dont think Raz will claim at L-4.

Also @Loose thats not how trades work, because you're not trading in DMs. In those other traitor games, likely you're the only two trading info. Not the case here.

@Sonic dont use regular flavour for facts. You can probably even relate the "fears" to the intro posts if you want. Even the smoke bomb thing, albeit triggered, is flimsy to me but I felt like it was worth mentioning because you had done so in the past.

I'm also still wondering if Sonic is pushing loose to see who's joining him. I came up with that yesterday and I feel like I'm entering the tunnel, I feel like sonic and loose are aligned because they are so so so unaligned. Hopefully I can come up with something better soon, because that would be the only reason why sonic would be town for me - no scum would push on everything and everyone, right? Maybe I'm wrong

[DirtyDishSoap]

That last paragraph is something i had a thought of in terms of 3p roles and just how hard he's been pushing loose...Falls in line with an Executioner.

I really doubt the role exists. It's almost never used.

[PepeAtila]

You skimmed.

Clarification: Loose can still talk, but he can't be lynched today.

Carry on[/color]

Yes, sorry after my post I read it, but I was going to change my vote.
\

PepeAtila. Strongly aligning himself with Sonic and Raz.
...
If I had to name 2 people for scum out of the list, it would probably be Pepe and Darin. But I dont have particularly strong feelings about either of them.

I don't know about Darin, Sonic or Raz, and it is not very useful if I share who I think are
\

Loose's poof and its aftermath (no lynch today) made him and his issue irrelevant for the time being, and discussing his vague scum ability, if any, seems futile.
My impression is the everyone's back-voting of Pixar without a reasonable explanation is as logical as voting for lynching Raz
if i'd have to vote according to the amount of chatter, those who can't stop talking about it are the first suspects.
As for now, i haven't read a firm and convincing argument for any of the current votes.
...

I fully agree with that. But not knowing why we forgot about Pixar, for the same reason, looking for some information, let's tense the situation
By now vote Raz.
/
About Loose. His character is related to the vote, so he did vote knowing his vote was not valid, later he was looking to be voted, and now he strongly look for somebody who follow him in his vote, the reason I don't know but I guess if somebody vote the same he did he will become stronger ... (sorry I cannot explain my feelings better).

[DirtyDishSoap]

For the record, I'm thinking of this, not off of Mafiascum.net

https://sc2mafia.fandom.com/wiki/Executioner
Its a bastard role at best.

EW, could you also make a list?

[Extreme Ways]

Well I am glad I unvoted so Loose cannot hammer yet
I want to vote in spirit if that counts, dont want to lose my vote history if raz flips scum and am willing to trade if for my reputation if he flips town.

EW, could you also make a list?

Expect it tonight (+-8 hours from now). I'm officially... at work, currently. But couldn't resist skimming and posting the important details.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Well I am glad I unvoted so Loose cannot hammer yet
I want to vote in spirit if that counts, dont want to lose my vote history if raz flips scum and am willing to trade if for my reputation if he flips town.

EW, could you also make a list?

Expect it tonight (+-8 hours from now). I'm officially... at work, currently. But couldn't resist skimming and posting the important details.

YOU SLACKER!

[Razorvich]

I will not flip scum.

There seems to be a target on my back because of lack of posting.

understandable for sure, I don't blame any of you for that.

However, look at the ones that are climbing on the train here, there is scum in the list for sure.

I will give you all a soft claim.

I am a character that has an evil double. This person (whom I know) is out to get me lynched to meet his win conditions.

Your call now, lynch me and eat the egg on your face or look at the ones that are diverting attention towards me.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I want to unvote but i need a full claim. I think i know who exactly your claiming to be, and who your evil doppelganger is but rather hear it from you. Unless someone counters this as well.

[Charle]

I will not flip scum.

There seems to be a target on my back because of lack of posting.

understandable for sure, I don't blame any of you for that.

However, look at the ones that are climbing on the train here, there is scum in the list for sure.

I will give you all a soft claim.

I am a character that has an evil double. This person (whom I know) is out to get me lynched to meet his win conditions.

Your call now, lynch me and eat the egg on your face or look at the ones that are diverting attention towards me.

Thanks for your post Raz, I somehow want to believe you completely and that change my predictions again. The only one thing I do not understand is why you are not helping to figure out who scum is? I know you are far away in a different time zone (so am I), and sometimes work takes over, but at least give us a bit more of your thoughts as well? It can also be the rugby world cup that keeps you busy? Must say, your loss last weekend did cost me some money!

This leaves me with Pixar and Bax as possibilities for scum.

[SoN!c]

I will not flip scum.

There seems to be a target on my back because of lack of posting.

understandable for sure, I don't blame any of you for that.

However, look at the ones that are climbing on the train here, there is scum in the list for sure.

I will give you all a soft claim.

I am a character that has an evil double. This person (whom I know) is out to get me lynched to meet his win conditions.

Your call now, lynch me and eat the egg on your face or look at the ones that are diverting attention towards me.

So your good town and he is evil scum? And he can only kill you during the day by voting (Lynching you)? Then your evil twin is an Executioner? Is that what your saying Raz? (The Executioner receives a game-assigned "target" at the beginning of the game and only wins if his target is lynched during the day).

Well then i strongly think Loose is the evil twin because he has doubling vote powers..so i can imagine him being the evil one getting more vote power the longer the game goes on in order to lynch you and why Loose is trying to find out the roles so hard. But then you just said in the open it's you he wants to find?

And if it's not Loose, your evil twin will know it's you he has to find to get lynched? So why don't you say who your evil twin is if you already said this much?

The vilain "Doppleganger Spin" is Multiple Santa, who duplicates whenever touched by an electrical spark..

So if Loose is "Doppleganger Spin" that would explain the doubling vote count he has. And would confirm my case against Loose that he is 3rd party once and for all.

Then from there the murderer of Doc would be Pix because Loose can't kill during the night (if Loose is the Doppleganger).

Let's hear it Raz.

This person (whom I know) is out to get me lynched to meet his win conditions.

[SoN!c]

I want to unvote but i need a full claim. I think i know who exactly your claiming to be, and who your evil doppelganger is but rather hear it from you. Unless someone counters this as well.

This +1

Lets hear it Raz

[Loose Canon]

DDS - why are you trying to stop me playing what I believe is a scum revealing strategy?

Also, DO NOT TRADE REVEALS, THIS IS STUPID!

Charle, ty for joining, can you tell us a full list of Town, neut and scum in more detail please?

And what do you think of my belief that BLENDING IN is what scum do?
Maybe watch Traitors UK, Traitors USA or Traitors Australia on BBC Iplayer - you will see that is Scum behaviour.
(Actually all of you should watch one of those series)
Then call me stupid if you want.

And therefore masterblender Swang is Scum - I'm not changing my vote.

[Razorvich]

Loose is not the evil twin

I find it difficult to read through the bs to find the scum, don't judge me on that..

he knows who he is and I expect him to start chanting really soon

My role does not note anything about "Executioner" apart from that I am a target.

As for a full claim, that will only aid the scum.. look elsewhere, this course will get town nowhere.

[SoN!c]

/
About Loose. His character is related to the vote, so he did vote knowing his vote was not valid, later he was looking to be voted, and now he strongly look for somebody who follow him in his vote, the reason I don't know but I guess if somebody vote the same he did he will become stronger ... (sorry I cannot explain my feelings better).

Could this be the Doppelganger Spin effect?

Loose had no votes and is trying so hard to find a specific character (like the excecutioner role)

Then gets votes (electric sparks) and his voting ability increase to the amount of votes he got (het got 3 votes before the sparkbomb) so from 0 to 2 votes is exactly 3..

Multiple Santa, who duplicates whenever touched by an electrical spark in the show The Tick (in here this would mean a vote is an electrical spark for him).

So if that is the case we need to agree on 10 votes on D3 before actually voting. Because there would be a strong possibility - if he would only get 8 votes - his voting power would rise by 8 also and would have enough votes to lynch Raz by himself (2+8 = 10)

[Razorvich]

I am a very loveable character, your math is wrong

/
About Loose. His character is related to the vote, so he did vote knowing his vote was not valid, later he was looking to be voted, and now he strongly look for somebody who follow him in his vote, the reason I don't know but I guess if somebody vote the same he did he will become stronger ... (sorry I cannot explain my feelings better).

Could this be the Doppelganger Spin effect?

Loose had no votes and is trying so hard to find a specific character (like the excecutioner role)

Then gets votes (electric sparks) and his voting ability increase to the amount of votes he got (het got 3 votes before the sparkbomb) so from 0 to 2 votes is exactly 3..

Multiple Santa, who duplicates whenever touched by an electrical spark in the show The Tick (in here this would mean a vote is an electrical spark for him).

So if that is the case we need to agree on 10 votes on D3 before actually voting. Because there would be a strong possibility - if he would only get 8 votes - his voting power would rise by 8 also and would have enough votes to lynch Raz by himself (2+8 = 10)

[SoN!c]

Loose is not the evil twin

I find it difficult to read through the bs to find the scum, don't judge me on that..

he knows who he is and I expect him to start chanting really soon

My role does not note anything about "Executioner" apart from that I am a target.

As for a full claim, that will only aid the scum.. look elsewhere, this course will get town nowhere.

Fast posted. Okay, you don't wanna say who your evil twin is but it's not Loose. And nothing about an "Executioner" role apart from your the target..

Well it seemed a possibility good enough to check out on. Still i loved the idea about the Doppelganger spin (The Tick Vilain "Mulitiple Santa") and the vote effect on Loose his character (and why that could explain his doubling voting ability) going from 0 to 2 after receiving 3 votes.

I would like to try that out on D3 just to be sure (but we can't give Loose too many votes just in case).