The Tick Mafia - JUSTICE PREVAILS!

[strike wolf]

The other thing is I do have an idea how to shake this game up a bit in day 1 - but I need to mull (not mulch) it over - and I have to go out now.

This is day 1. It's kind of early in the game to be making wild moves to shake things up.

I went silent for a few day just to see how some characters would behave after my "loose lips" - "dont live long in the mafia" + saying i would not comment an entire week (and unvoting loose).

Well loose reacted exactly the way i feared he would if he was mafia..

So still my n°1 suspect by far because, oh boy, did he post / talk a lot after that comment.. he jumped on the "talk a lot so your not mafia" wagon

Trafalgarlaw on the official suspect list too now . He was more than happy to put a little weight down the scale and he was already on the black list before giving that few comments..i know Trafa would play the game good so he too did not dissapoint (if he is mafia). I already wondered why he commented that little knowing how much he looked forward to this game. Only if he was mafia he would is my idea

Extreme is off the suspect list, if he was mafia - my prediction was (when i posted i would be away the entire week) he had given a little push on me by now ("barely noticable" style), ... (the strong genius player he is). But he did not. Nothing but genuine posts.. Sounds like the real deal

Yea. Most of this just sounds like confirmation bias.

[Loose Canon]

Right here's a game within the game for you all.

Team The Americas vs Team Rest of World (ROW)

You are playing vs an opponent to score a point for your team by saying Yes when your match up says No
Yes vs Yes is a half a point to each.
No vs No is a half a point to each.

Either you or your opponent can go first its fastest player first.

But Yes also means you are saying you are prepared to Soft Reveal (your character only) IF your Match up also says Yes and is prepared to Soft Reveal his/her character too.

The Match Ups are

Strike Wolf (Americas) v Extreme Ways (ROW)
Trafalgar Law (Americas) v Razorvich (ROW)
DirtyDishSoap (Americas) v Ragian (ROW)
*Pixar* (Americas) v traffic133 (ROW)
Maxleod (Americas) v PepeAtila (ROW)
Duke Hazzard (Americas) v SoN!c (ROW)
Fusibaseball (Americas) v General Bax (ROW)
Darin44 (Americas) v Charle (ROW)
Swang918 (Americas) v Loose Canon (ROW)

drake_259 you get to sit this one out I'm afraid (injured) but I know you are cheering on team Rest of the World and would have been a banker point for ROW had you not been struck down at the last moment with a severe case of Pins and Needles.

I'll keep score (unbiased) and I'm proud and feel slightly humbled to be on the same team as SoN!c now.

[Extreme Ways]

Ok so you are hoping more people soft reveal? I thought we had agreed that this was worse for Town?

[Extreme Ways]

Nicely copypasted again
I like the following so far:
- Extreme
- Strike
- DDS
- Trafalgar

I'm neutral about
- Darin
- Pepe
- Fusi

I have a hard time reading
- Razor
- Bax (for 1 reason only)
- Duke

I'm iffy about
- Loose
- Max
- Ragian
- Pixar

My favourite townies are lower in numbers this time around but I just don't like how the day is progressing. Ragian was mildly pushing on someone who was claiming to go on holiday and whom I thought (still think) to be Jester. From my POV, any claim by sonic would be bullshit because he wants to be voted out so there's nothing to gain there. In addition, for once I agree with sonic that it's a scummy timing to vote on him. There had been plenty of time to vote on sonic before for what would essentially be the same reason. Ragian was catching up though so... unsure.

Loose is now suddenly doing this game within a game, baiting softclaims. Is that inexperience or malice? Even the matchups are weird.

[Loose Canon]

The match ups were determined by looking at the 1-19 on the player list.
I looked at players profile to see what flag they had.
I determined there were 9 Americas players (there could have been 9 European or something else)
1 America Strike Wolf plays the first of the ROW 4 Extreme Ways
2 Trafalgar Law plays the next ROW 5 Razorvich
etc.

You are saying that we had agreed not best for town to have Soft Reveals.
I didn't agree and I can see scenarios where Soft Reveals are good for town.
We have different levels of experience and ability in this game.

Saying Soft Reveals are better or worse for one faction or the other is like saying one opening move by white in a game of chess is better than another.
No short of grandmaster level thats not true (and nobody has proven it to be true at human grandmaster level yet either) - a more important factor in chess is having an idea of why you are playing that opening move.

[Ragian]

I think I made it quite clear before he went away that I was on son!c's case. It's not like I sat waiting for him to piss off to Greece before I started asking questions of him.

[Ragian]

Soft claims are hurtful for town because you give scum a pick and choose list for tonight and because degaston most likely has provided scum with fake claims. (I would do that in a theme based game.)

[Extreme Ways]

@Loose, if your logic would be correct, why wouldn't it also extend to hard claims instead of only softclaims? You're basically claiming that full role info is worth more for town, when almost always it is the opposite D1.

@Ragian, good point. It's just the vote timing that didn't sit well with me. I'm curious though, are you entertaining the jester idea or am I the only one who is thinking he is way more likely to be a third party than scum?

[SoN!c]

@Loose, if your logic would be correct, why wouldn't it also extend to hard claims instead of only softclaims? You're basically claiming that full role info is worth more for town, when almost always it is the opposite D1.

@Ragian, good point. It's just the vote timing that didn't sit well with me. I'm curious though, are you entertaining the jester idea or am I the only one who is thinking he is way more likely to be a third party than scum?

Im not scum. You can be sure off that. But Yes, you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs..and i know ive been breaking the eggbank. Taking heat is what you do if you enter the kitchen. Its all good. I have my notes and suspect list. Loose lips stays on the top after all the poking around that went on. He cracked because we found out he can't vote.. now behaving weird like a cornered cat jumping in all loose directions.

But the silent lips get more notes at this stage..

Ps: not happy with Ragian hitting on me after i left for the island. That was the 7th. Back the 17th
But nothing hard that indicates to me he is scum.

[Ragian]

You don't seem to be so far away on holiday that you can't post. Evidently. Even if you have tripped over the "corny idioms" book in order to spit out words without saying anything.

[SoN!c]

You don't seem to be so far away on holiday that you can't post. Evidently. Even if you have tripped over the "corny idioms" book in order to spit out words without saying anything.

Love you too Ragian! Cheers old chap - have a beer on me and enjoy life!

[strike wolf]

The match ups were determined by looking at the 1-19 on the player list.
I looked at players profile to see what flag they had.
I determined there were 9 Americas players (there could have been 9 European or something else)
1 America Strike Wolf plays the first of the ROW 4 Extreme Ways
2 Trafalgar Law plays the next ROW 5 Razorvich
etc.

You are saying that we had agreed not best for town to have Soft Reveals.
I didn't agree and I can see scenarios where Soft Reveals are good for town.
We have different levels of experience and ability in this game.

Saying Soft Reveals are better or worse for one faction or the other is like saying one opening move by white in a game of chess is better than another.
No short of grandmaster level thats not true (and nobody has proven it to be true at human grandmaster level yet either) - a more important factor in chess is having an idea of why you are playing that opening move.

I mean King's Pawn is definitely better than Barnes. It's actively bad for our investigative and protective roles to claim without a good reason. It is actively bad for so many people to claim that scum can then deduce who is likely Doc/cop.

If you want to use chess metaphors think about it as claiming being the same as putting a piece under threat of attack. With pieces like cop and doc having the relative value of a Queen and something like voteless townie having the relative value of am undeveloped pawn. You wouldn't put your queen under threat of capture unless you were gaining something significant back for it right?

[strike wolf]

@Loose, if your logic would be correct, why wouldn't it also extend to hard claims instead of only softclaims? You're basically claiming that full role info is worth more for town, when almost always it is the opposite D1.

@Ragian, good point. It's just the vote timing that didn't sit well with me. I'm curious though, are you entertaining the jester idea or am I the only one who is thinking he is way more likely to be a third party than scum?

Maybe? Jester has always just been such an uncommon role on this site outside of the old Chu games which were always zany that I rarely account for them in my logic.

My list:

Town: I'm all alone. There's no one here beside me.

Townish:

1. DDS: think DDS has been pretty reasonable so far. Almost too reasonable compared to some of his behavior but it's also day 1 which he's always advocated as a no lynch/conservative play period of the game.

2. Duke: I don't agree with a lot of what he says but when I read back through his posts, they seemed consistent.

3. Extreme is well-reasoned for the most part. I don't know if I follow him on the Son!c Jester logic but otherwise I've mostly agreed with him.

Neutral:

1. Ragian-Just no strong read on him at this point.
2. Charle-Not active enough for me to feel comfortable giving a detailed read. Engagement overall feels genuine.
3. Trafa-No strong read.
4. Darin-A bit defensive but dont know if that actually says much either way. Would like to hear from him more.
5. Anyone I forget to mention Here.

Ambivalent:

1. Pixar-I think the wagon on him was stupid. I'm kind of against forcing him to claim for what was a joke wagon. I would however be lying if how he avoided defending himself didn't rub me the wrong way at times.
2. Son!c: Very active but seems to be prone to wild theories and trying to make the facts fit them.
3. Loose-I was leaning town but his behavior and insistence on trying to get softclaims out there strikes me as weird. Maybe his voteless condition has something to do with him trying to find a specific character in the game.
4. Anyone who jumped in on Pixar after the third vote not mentioned elsewhere. The wagon was BS and it would be easy for scum to slip in somewhere.

Scummish:

1. Razor-I don't like the way he went after Pepe and Rage earlier ad it really felt like he picked two people and then came up with reasons for suspecting them. He's also gone quieter since the game started turning more serious.

Needs to be prodded/replaced:

1. Drake-Get back in here!
2. Bax-If he's as bad as people say, just replace him please.
3. Max-unless I'm mistaken, he's also not posted in a while.

[degaston]

Vote Count:

*Pixar* : 6 (Charle, Darin44, fusibaseball, General Bax, PepeAtila, SoN!c)
Loose Canon : 3 (*Pixar*, Maxleod, swang918)
No Lynch : 3 (DirtyDishSoap, DukeHazzard, Extreme Ways)
SoN!c : 1 (Ragian)
strike wolf : 1 (drake_259)
Ragian : 0* (Loose Canon)

No Vote : 4 (Razorvich, strike wolf, TrafalgarLaw01, traffic133)

10 votes needed to lynch

I'm not sensing much of a consensus forming. I may have to set a deadline if things don't change.

* Not a typo

[Ragian]

Ugh... Enjoy life... It's like when people you don't know say cheer up. As if posting in a mafia game has any bearing on one's life.

@Extreme, I don't think he's a jester. Mostly because it seems unlikely. I'll concede, however, that some of his input seems jesteresque.

[Loose Canon]

Hi Strike,

I'll accept that a hard claim may give Mafia some info on who might be best to Night eliminate for their powers.
You have to accept that anyone who isn't mafia is a target for mafia at night anyway.
Soft claims just revealing or claiming the name of a character, surely the mafia have to guess the powers from the characters name for it to be useful to them?
A false soft claim for a character risks exposing a player as mafia IF another player is that character.

Because my logic is soft claiming favours town, I stick by the game within a game.
People are free to choose to score or concede points for/to Americas or ROW as they wish and might want to build into their calculations whether Soft Claim vs Soft Claim would be best for them or not depending on how they assess what it best for Town or Mafia or Third Party.

If you are town and think saying you wouldn't reveal benefits you in this game then play the game within the game and say you you wouldn't reveal.
It might be everyone else says the same as you and I win the game for ROW by saying I would reveal?


And by the way if you want a game of chess where we can discuss chess we could play chess on this site under "other games". (I'd never heard of Barnes by the way until I checked if there was such an opening just now - ok so its an opening move by white that is said to give a slight advantage to black). I suppose carrying on the chess example is a bit useful because if we were equal ability players and you understood and played barnes as white vs me, that would give you an advantage.
Perhaps you want no soft reveal because you understand that game whereas me without prior understanding of the game but just logic think soft reveals favour town?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Ok so you are hoping more people soft reveal? I thought we had agreed that this was worse for Town?

This.

It only hurts town more in the following days. You're giving scum the opportunity to basically map their playstyle. Even soft claiming hero names is detrimental in a themed game. For example: lets say the theme is instead Justice League and you breadcrumb yourself as Martian Manhunter. Well, don't wholly need to guess what your powers are, but you're likely not going to live long enough to be of any use to town. And God forbid if everyone reveals, because you have an entire pantheon of heroes, so you'll have no idea who is telling the truth or not, which makes the soft claims that more useless. Soft claiming/claiming at all before L-2 is a pretty bad move, and it's usually derived from inexperience than scum.

And can we keep the nationality and chess analogies out of this? There's no reason to bring either up and takes away the actual discussion. 1. Nationality has 0 impact on this game. Why is this a thing? 2. Chess is a game about book openings, moves, sacrifices, blah blah. I'm not sitting across the board of my opponent, yelling "YOU'RE SCUM FOR CHECKMATING ME YOU PIECE OF FILTH!" Completely different game.

[strike wolf]

Soft Reveals favors Mafia generally since they can confidentally know most of the ones that are real. Especially in a game like this where Mafia almost certainly got fake claims. Also I don't know what role Arthur would have but considering his central role in the show, I can guess from name that he has a fairly important role. So soft claims can reveal a lot.
Finally you do see how even getting town to say "I am willing to soft claim" vs. "I don't want to soft claims" already gives Mafia information on who feels they have an important role and who feels they don't.

This game within a game is bad for town and I suggest everyone say no to soft claiming.

Vote No Lynch

[strike wolf]

"you're scum for checkmating me you piece of filth." Does have some chess.com vibes.

[DirtyDishSoap]

"you're scum for checkmating me you piece of filth." Does have some chess.com vibes.

I play on there sometimes, though I'm hot garbage.

[Extreme Ways]

chesscom bad lichess good

anyone who disagrees is scum.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

This game within a game is bad for town and I suggest everyone say no to soft claiming.

Vote No Lynch

I agree here. I have said already softclaims, breadcrumble or whatever u want to find will only help mafia. I also don't see the point on forcing a claim for the sake of it.
Stop reaveling info to mafia.

Vote No lynch

[DirtyDishSoap]

FOS Extreme for having TERRIBLE taste. Def scum. Can't convince me otherwise. If i wasnt such an advocate for avoiding lynching on D1, I'd be voting you SO HARD.

[Extreme Ways]

FOS Extreme for having TERRIBLE taste. Def scum. Can't convince me otherwise. If i wasnt such an advocate for avoiding lynching on D1, I'd be voting you SO HARD.

I prefer my features to be free . And I guess there's some that somehow enjoy the interface of chessc*m, but to me it's so ugly and unintuitive.

[Loose Canon]

By my reckoning being against soft claims is scummy.

Pixar - what is your view on this - you said you were ready to make a claim?