Rings of Power

[Dukasaur]

Is anybody watching the new LotR spinoff, Rings of Power?

[jusplay4fun]

I have READ about it and have plans to watch. Duk, do you want to offer opinions of what you have watched so far?

[bigtoughralf]

It's a big fat 1/10 for me, on account of the race of mud-dwelling simpletons running around with faux-Irish accents.

Racism against black people = BAD, racism against brown people = BAD, racism against yellow people = BAD, racism against Irish people = funny and encouraged. Welcome to the Western world in 2022.

[jimboston]

It's a big fat 1/10 for me, on account of the race of mud-dwelling simpletons running around with faux-Irish accents.

Racism against black people = BAD, racism against brown people = BAD, racism against yellow people = BAD, racism against Irish people = funny and encouraged. Welcome to the Western world in 2022.

The proto-Hobbits are not being racists against Mc’s.

[jimboston]

Is anybody watching the new LotR spinoff, Rings of Power?

Yes.

It’s slow for me right now… but not horrible. I hope it’ll pick up as we get involved with characters in a more deeper way.

I fear the writer’s desire to send political/social messages may interfere with the story.
(I don‘ t messages in stories… stories have had agenda for years. They only bother me when they are too frequent/obvious and I bump up against them. When they interfere with plot or character motives get sidetracked in odd ways.)

[Dukasaur]

I have mixed feelings. My tendency is to be one of those people who bitches that the show isn't being faithful to the book. But I'm trying really hard to suppress that impulse.

I'm kind of worried that they're overplaying the tensions between Elves and Men. It's true that there was mistrust between the Elder and the Younger, but it did not (in most cases) come down to outright hatred. I'm scared that it's going to come down to some cliched anti-racism message like the Harry Potter series. So far, there's still a chance that it won't.

I fear the writer’s desire to send political/social messages may interfere with the story.

Exactly.

It's a big fat 1/10 for me, on account of the race of mud-dwelling simpletons running around with faux-Irish accents.

Racism against black people = BAD, racism against brown people = BAD, racism against yellow people = BAD, racism against Irish people = funny and encouraged. Welcome to the Western world in 2022.

Definitely you're getting the wrong message there. The portrayal of the Harfoots is meant to be a loving portrayal of the folk. I'm not qualified to judge their accents, but if they're not authentic it could be that (a) they can't do any better or (b) they're consciously trying not to be too close to any real-world people. So they borrow a bit of Irish flavour without letting it get too close to real Irish. Tolkien was like that: many of his races were somewhat inspired by real peoples (Rohan by the Visigoths, the Noldor by the Finns, etc.) but he was careful not to let the parallels get too close. In any case, while I obviously can't see into the minds of the producers, I'm pretty confident that the Harfoots are being portrayed in a positive light.

So far the only thing that I can unequivocally criticize is Numenor's insular character. Numenor was a rich trading nation; a trading nation by definition has to get out and trade with foreigners. It cannot be insular. Even if it looks down on foreigners, it must engage and deal with them.

[jusplay4fun]

ralph totally misunderstands racism, especially as it relates to the Irish. What we have here is MORE proof of that

[jimboston]

I have mixed feelings. My tendency is to be one of those people who bitches that the show isn't being faithful to the book. But I'm trying really hard to suppress that impulse.

… but there is no “book” here to faithful to.

What Tolkien had was a bunch of notes which others have tried to turn into books.

He had 4 books. That’s it.

Everything else was his note interpreted (badly) by others.

This now is his notes again interpreted for the screen… hopefully it’ll e well done.

The other thing they need to do to be “faithful” to Tolkien is not mess up the history alluded to in LOTR series.

I tried to read the Silmarillion but it was crap. I don’t think the series needs to treat that like “the Bible” because I don’tbelieve it’s a cohesive story just a collection of notes cobbled together by his son and others to make $$$.

[Dukasaur]

I have mixed feelings. My tendency is to be one of those people who bitches that the show isn't being faithful to the book. But I'm trying really hard to suppress that impulse.

… but there is no “book” here to faithful to.

A summary of the history of the Second Age is given in the Appendix to LOTR. For instance, the rising hubris of the Numenorean Kings, leading to their destruction. Clearly they are using this material.

Other events alluded to here are described in fairly great detail in LOTR itself. Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and Aragorn all talk about older history at various times in LOTR. The forging of the rings of power and their fate is discussed quite a bit in reminiscences by Gandalf and/or Elrond during LOTR conversations.

I tried to read the Silmarillion but it was crap.

Have to disagree. The Silmarillion was a powerful work.

I don’t think the series needs to treat that like “the Bible” because I don’tbelieve it’s a cohesive story just a collection of notes cobbled together by his son and others to make $$$.

Tolkien wrote the way Michelangelo sculpted. He didn't see himself as making up the story. He viewed the story as something that already existed in some way that it was his privilege to discover. Many of the things he wrote are commonly referred to as "notes" but they are more like scholarly essays. One of the reasons Tolkien is so inspiring is that his world is so complex and connected. There definitely is a canon, even if much of it is incomplete.

[jimboston]

I have mixed feelings. My tendency is to be one of those people who bitches that the show isn't being faithful to the book. But I'm trying really hard to suppress that impulse.

… but there is no “book” here to faithful to.

A summary of the history of the Second Age is given in the Appendix to LOTR. For instance, the rising hubris of the Numenorean Kings, leading to their destruction. Clearly they are using this material.

Other events alluded to here are described in fairly great detail in LOTR itself. Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and Aragorn all talk about older history at various times in LOTR. The forging of the rings of power and their fate is discussed quite a bit in reminiscences by Gandalf and/or Elrond during LOTR conversations.

I tried to read the Silmarillion but it was crap.

Have to disagree. The Silmarillion was a powerful work.

I don’t think the series needs to treat that like “the Bible” because I don’tbelieve it’s a cohesive story just a collection of notes cobbled together by his son and others to make $$$.

Tolkien wrote the way Michelangelo sculpted. He didn't see himself as making up the story. He viewed the story as something that already existed in some way that it was his privilege to discover. Many of the things he wrote are commonly referred to as "notes" but they are more like scholarly essays. One of the reasons Tolkien is so inspiring is that his world is so complex and connected. There definitely is a canon, even if much of it is incomplete.

“scholarly essays”

It’s a work of Fiction!

You’re gonna start to sound like HitRed when he talks about The Bible!

[jimboston]

I’m a big comic book geek and was at one point in my life obsessed with “the Canon” of the Marvel Universe.
(The comic book universe to be specific.)

Then I realized that for the them to keep making interesting stories around this “universe” they have to sometimes ignore of change “canon”.

Not exactly applicable but…

Mark Twain said…

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story,

(BTW, this is true with religious texts like the Bible as well. They often ignore of]r disregard “canon” when said canon no longer “fits” with the story they are trying to tell; or when their audience has changed enough that they no longer accept some parts of that “canon”.)