God Bashing at Its Best

[jimboston]

I’ll submit to God when he presents Himself to me

That's an interesting line. Let me know how that turns out.

I don’t expect to meet Him... therefore I can’t promise to update you.

[riskllama]

I’ll submit to God when he presents Himself to me

That's an interesting line. Let me know how that turns out.

I don’t expect to meet Him... therefore I can’t promise to update you.

but you will if he does, right?

[jimboston]

Hey jb, I didn't want to get into a pissing match with you.

May God bless you and soften your heart.

I’ll take your blessing, as I’m not a militant Atheist who takes offense at such words.
I accept that phrase in the manner it’s generally intended.

The whole “softening” my heart thing I take some acceptation with.. as it implies my heart is ‘hard’.
I’m kind to people in general, especially in ‘real life’... and only have a ‘hard’ for for people who affront me in some way.

You’re piece-offering/blessing softens my. heart for you and I don’t take it personal... even if I do take exception with things people post here that seem ridiculous to me.

[jimboston]

I’ll submit to God when he presents Himself to me

That's an interesting line. Let me know how that turns out.

I don’t expect to meet Him... therefore I can’t promise to update you.

but you will if he does, right?

Sure, I’ll. start a new thread if that happens.

[riskllama]

*thumbs up*

[Jdsizzleslice]

Hey jb, I didn't want to get into a pissing match with you.

May God bless you and soften your heart.

It's unfortunate, indeed, DY. Sometimes, only an individual can convince themselves. I understand because I can be like this sometimes.

I also did not want to get into a pissing match. Jim, I pray that if you seek the truth, that you will find it.

[jimboston]

Hey jb, I didn't want to get into a pissing match with you.

May God bless you and soften your heart.

It's unfortunate, indeed, DY. Sometimes, only an individual can convince themselves. I understand because I can be like this sometimes.

... and by “be like this” you mean that you seek pissing matches?

I also did not want to get into a pissing match.

Funny. You interjected yourself into our conversation with the sole intent of proving me wrong...
but you “did not want to get into a pissing match”. Hilarious.

Jim, I pray that if you seek the truth, that you will find it.

I do seek Truth. I don’t think a bureaucracy of old men is a good place to look.
Nor do I think a book written by old white men, designed to help control the mass of humanity, is a good place to look.

I look for it in conversation with intelligent and interesting people, I look for it in novels, in music, in art.
I look for it in the laughter of children and the joy of good company/friendship.

These seem like better places.

[riskllama]

jimbo wins this thread.

[HitRed]

show

[mookiemcgee]

show

Who needs the bible when you can just pretend to be God's voice!

[riskllama]

[jonesthecurl]

[

He's not pretending. He's delusional. I like that he wants us to listen to the voice in his own head. He's sincere. I'd try just as hard to save all our souls if some god or another was dictating to me.

Bless you, Hitred. I do thank you for trying. But at the end of the day, you are a bloody looney.

[Dukasaur]

I trust Hitred as much as I trust Ezekiel or Saul of Tarsus.

As far as I'm concerned, people don't gain credibility just by being dead for several hundred years. An appeal to antiquity is a logical fallacy.

Keeping a stockpile of six months' of non-perishable food for disasters and emergencies is good advice in any case.

[riskllama]

[Dukasaur]

[armati]

“Give me the child for the first seven years and I'll give you the man.”
― Jesuit maxim

I dont know who the first person was to realize this but the point is thats what happened to hitred.
He was brainwashed as a child so now he is controlled by faith as opposed to reason.

Its sad really, he did not have the opportunity to choose for himself or put another way, use his free will.
That was stolen from him.
Child abuse actually.

The reason faith is required is those beliefs will not stand using reason, gotta have faith is a pretty standard belief for these god of abrahanm people.

Good arguments opposing hitreds position. Hitchens, Gervais, Dawkins, Harris.
Thing is these people use reason so hitred would gain nothing from them.

End Rant

[DoomYoshi]

If they only used reason and that was good enough, why then do they also use rhetoric and humor and propaganda?

What do you see as the distinction between faith and reason?

[armati]

Faith does not need proof. It is simply a belief.
Believe in flying horses if you wish, that does not make them real.

Reason comes from science, it is provable.

I listed 3 or 4 people that provide very good arguments explaining the dif.
Any of them are far better than myself explaining.

[armati]

Forgot the first 1/2

rhetoric - the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, all good speakers do.
Humor - is used to keep a topic interesting and enjoyable.
Propaganda- they dont use, they use reason, which is provable.

[DoomYoshi]

Faith does not need proof. It is simply a belief.
Believe in flying horses if you wish, that does not make them real.

Reason comes from science, it is provable.

I listed 3 or 4 people that provide very good arguments explaining the dif.
Any of them are far better than myself explaining.

That isn't really the definition of reason. Reason refers to a mental process that occurs after accepting some truth as axiomatic. One could choose to accept science as an axiomatic truth or the Bible as an axiomatic truth. Either way, one can use reasonable thinking after the fact.

Where in the Bible does it say that faith does not need proof, it is simply a belief? There is a curious thing about faith - it doesn't really exist in scripture. Rather, there is a word "πιστις" which translates roughly to faith, but also roughly to faithfulness. Part of the problem is that over 2000 years, those concepts have separated, but in the New Testament they are the exact same concept. Faith is not belief. That is part of it, but they are not the same thing.

Your definition of propaganda is also incorrect. You wrote "Propaganda- they dont use, they use reason, which is provable." Propaganda is ALWAYS provable, otherwise it has another name - lying. Propaganda is the art of selecting information to prove a point. Anyone who makes an argument will have to select some information. It is called propaganda when one only selects the information that proves ones' point and purposely does not select any information which disagrees with ones' point.

I know that you can't understand why this is a bad thing, but you'll just have to believe me that not everyone is trying to manipulate information to misdirect people. It's kind of a fringe activity, which is why it has a name (propaganda). If it was actually what everybody did, we wouldn't give it a name.

[armati]

Wow Dom, I cant imagine the road you used to get there.

What is a simple definition of propaganda?

Propaganda is the dissemination of information—facts, arguments, rumours, half-truths, or lies—to influence public opinion. Deliberateness and a relatively heavy emphasis on manipulation distinguish propaganda from casual conversation or the free and easy exchange of ideas.


prop·a·gan·da

See definitions in:
All
Politics
Roman Catholic Church
noun
1.
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.



I have no intention of delving into the rabbit hole your talking about, but I thought I would give you the definitions of propaganda so you can clarify it for yourself.

Yes it can be proven when people use propaganda, which is why I can say the people I listed for you, do not use propaganda.
What I actually said tho, it they use REASON which is provable.

Guess you would just have to listen to them to find out for yourself.

If you are a god worshipper, certain you will burn for all eternity if you break a rule, I doubt you would get anything out of listening to any of them.

Gervais is pretty humorous tho.

[DoomYoshi]

Wow Dom, I cant imagine the road you used to get there.

What is a simple definition of propaganda?

Propaganda is the dissemination of information—facts, arguments, rumours, half-truths, or lies—to influence public opinion. Deliberateness and a relatively heavy emphasis on manipulation distinguish propaganda from casual conversation or the free and easy exchange of ideas.


prop·a·gan·da

See definitions in:
All
Politics
Roman Catholic Church
noun
1.
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.



I have no intention of delving into the rabbit hole your talking about, but I thought I would give you the definitions of propaganda so you can clarify it for yourself.

Yes it can be proven when people use propaganda, which is why I can say the people I listed for you, do not use propaganda.
What I actually said tho, it they use REASON which is provable.

Guess you would just have to listen to them to find out for yourself.

If you are a god worshipper, certain you will burn for all eternity if you break a rule, I doubt you would get anything out of listening to any of them.

Gervais is pretty humorous tho.

How is reason provable?

I am not familiar with all the names you mentioned, but I know Christopher Hitchens' work very well. He is a propagandist. That is why when he talks about the church he never mentions that they build hospitals, or that the church started literacy programs, welfare, abolition of slavery or other things. He only selects the negative information. That is propaganda, he is speaking and writing to influence public opinion.

[armati]

Hitchens is not a propagandist, maybe review the definition.

I havnt seen all his vids, I actually find him pretty arrogant and not really fun to listen to but he has great points.
As far as I have seen his topics are god and religion, not really the church.

Churches can do some good work, they also protect their pedophiles.

For example the Catholic church was fine with the nazis, nazis were catholic. The church helped many escape at the wars end.
Mussolini brought the vatican back to Rome.

Goebbels the only nazi to be excommunicated, not for his part in so many murders or supporting the nazi party, but because he married a protestant.
Sorta shows the priorities of the church I think.

"...he is speaking and writing to influence public opinion." yes he is.

I prefer Dawkins or Harris, but really the arguments are pretty much the same.

Gervais is a comedian and on occasion discusses god.
He doesnt believe as there is no proof, and he is funny.

"How is reason provable?" Science.


I think I mentioned, if you believe in a god that gives you rules and you will suffer for all eternity if you break one, you probably wont get anything from the argument that the gods do not exist.

[DoomYoshi]

"...he is speaking and writing to influence public opinion." yes he is.

And that's the definition of propaganda that you provided above.

"How is reason provable?" Science.

In what ways does science prove reason? Which experiment?

[armati]

“To argue with a person who renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to a corpse.”
Thomas Paine.