DeGeneres is racist and toxic

[Dukasaur]

A couple of pages ago you were talking about how being told some joke about Czechs is a 'special kind of hell' because of how tedious and boring it is. And now here you are talking about how you think it's ridiculous that people get upset about words. Personally I can't see what jim said that was so convincing that it's flipped you over to his perspective.

This needs a more complete response than I have time for. I'll get to it tonight.

[jimboston]

@Duk you could ask why you feel the need to defend the right to call other people n-----s, retards or f--s. I guess you also don't have any 'real problems' to worry about these days?

If it's just a word and words don't matter to you, why not use a different word?

No one is stating that we should be able to use these words silly-nilly. Context matters.

I’ve also not said all of these words are equivalent.

I’ve also (in part) just asked what people think... as in some of this my opinion is still evolving.

Your reaction here is a perfect example of what is wrong with political debate in this day and age.
You can’t have a conversation or express a middle-of-the-road view, without being called names from one of the two extreme sides.

You’re just like that ultra PC lady. I mentioned earlier.

You got a couple people saying essentially “I don’t see what’s the problem with the r-word, but I’ll try to stop using it. Oh, and if slip don’t jump down my throat.”

Instead of accepting the middle of the road view you yell at us like we’re Nazi’s.

You do realize neither of us are preaching extermination of mentally retarded people?
—-

I got my job threatened back in mid 90’s due to the “Fag” word.
True story.

I worked at Staples and we had a white board in the break room.
There was some kid, I forget his name (let’s call him John) he wasn’t a bad kid but he was a little cocky and annoying.

One day in the break room on the whiteboard he wrote something like “John is the best!”
(It may have been greatest or awesomest or whatever.)
I put a line through “the best” and wrote in “a fag” instead.

No big deal in my mind... if your gonna write you’re “the best” then calling you a fag is fair game.
I didn’t and don’t think he was gay. He didn’t take any offense.

Meanwhile there was this lesbian woman who worked there too... I call her a woman because Joh was probably 19, I was probably 22, and this lady was in her late 20’s or 30’s. She was fairly attractive, pretty face and skinny, butch style hair... it that it matters. She was 100% “Out” everyone knew she was lesbian, and no one cared. I worked with her a bit, she worked in the Business Machine’s and Furniture sections... I was moving into the Furniture section and we sometimes worked that department together on busy days. I had a good working relationship with her, we were not buddies... but we were friendly. I never had a problem with her, and in fact liked when she was in the department with me because unlike some lazier employees she could be counted on and wouldn’t disappear to have a smoke or get high (and leave you alone when it was busy).

Somehow she found out I wrote the “a Fag” comment.
(I think the John kid ratted me.)

Despite having never had a problem with her.
Despite the fact that the comment was directed at John and not her.
Despite the fact that the comment was prompted by the kid being a loser.
Despite the fact that the comment wasn’t about sexuality.

She got her panties all ruffled.
Threatened to rat me out to the General Manager.
Implied I’d get fired.
(Which seemed likely I was still Part-Time working to get into the Management Program, she was Full-Time and even 25 years ago the PC Police were in full force. The threat of her ratting me and claiming my comment made her feel ‘threatened’ or ‘unwelcome’ seemed real.)

Ultimately she said nothing, as I denied it and she had no proof... but needless to say our relationship, which was friendly before turned cold.

This is, to me, a good example of the Left and PC Minded people taking it too far.

She didn’t change my mind... if anything my opinion on these words. is more solidified because her threat.
Perhaps if she just said to me... “Listen Jim, I know you didn’t mean to hurt me and that you’re not directing the word at me... but as a gay person I find the word hurtful and offensive. Yes, John was being stupid or cocky with his message... it;s probably best to just ignore him, but if you can’t try to use words that aren’t hurtful to persecuted minorities.”

but she didn’t... she ‘came at me’ aggressively... and when people come at you the normal reaction is to get defensive and stand your ground.

This is how most people from the extreme Right and extreme Left approach people. in the middle... and all it does is push them away.

[mrswdk]

tl;dr jim wrote a homophobic slur on his office's notice board and thinks there's nothing wrong with that

[jimboston]

tl;dr jim wrote a homophobic slur on his office's notice board and thinks there's nothing wrong with that

God you’re an ass.

I shared a story about an incident in my life from nearly 30 years ago.

You can call it a homophobic slur, but when and where I grew up... that wasn’t how it was used.

I have no problem with any LGBTQ people in any way shape or form.

Yet because I used a word that kids threw around like candy when I was kid... I was threatened with loss of my job.

Do you think that woman’s threats is the best way to get people to agree with you?
Is that the most productive way to change hearts and minds?
Or is it counter-productive and more likely to create a person who is actively opposed to Gay Rights?

[mrswdk]

You are right, it is her fault for being upset in the wrong way.

Lesson learned: don't date jim.

[2dimes]

...again.

[jimboston]

You are right, it is her fault for being upset in the wrong way.

Yeah... but um that. isn’t I said either.
So you’re still an ass.

Lesson learned: don't date jim.

Where does dating come up?

I think you’re a perfect example of why The Left doesn’t win the public debate.

It’s not because the Left’s position is wrong. It’s because the extreme Left is filled with people like yourself. So righteous and know-it-all(ish) you’d prefer to alienate people and be smug and ‘right’, rather than work with people to understand their views and come to a reasonable understanding.

[mrswdk]

Female athletes talk about the sexism and racism they face just for doing their job:

"'Where are you from? But where are you actually from?'

"That is an example of a micro-aggression. Every single brown, black and other minority ethnic person in this country has been asked that question so many times.

"My first answer will always be: 'I'm from Scotland.' And then they ask: 'Oh, where are you really from?' 'Dundee.' And then again: Where are you really from?' And I'll say the town.

"I remember a time in Australia when I had gone to an outdoor cinema with a friend. We met up with some of their friends and that was the first thing they asked me; where are you from? Then their next question was: 'Where are your parents from?' I say India and Pakistan, and then I asked them the same thing. And they, as white Australians, were so shocked. Obviously no-one had ever asked them that before. But why do they think it's OK to ask where my parents are from?

"It's this idea that you, as a white person, are the default; you are the norm and anyone who deviates from that has to be justified and explained. Does that really have to be the first question you ask me? And why is my answer of Scotland so often challenged? I was born here. I grew up here. I'm not from anywhere else.

"I have white Scottish friends whose parents are Irish, Polish, or English, but their Scottishness is never challenged within the first few sentences of meeting someone. Yes, I have different heritage and I'm proud of that heritage. But I'm also still Scottish.

"People think they're just being friendly and they don't understand the lukewarm reaction they get, if they notice at all. But it's not a one-off. Believe us - black and brown people and other minority ethnic people get asked that question all the time. It is so tiring.

"Other times, even without having asked about my heritage, people launch into random stories about India on the assumption that I will of course know what they're talking about and be interested in it, because of my brownness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/53586529

[jimboston]

Female athletes talk about the sexism and racism they face just for doing their job:

"'Where are you from? But where are you actually from?'

"That is an example of a micro-aggression. Every single brown, black and other minority ethnic person in this country has been asked that question so many times.

"My first answer will always be: 'I'm from Scotland.' And then they ask: 'Oh, where are you really from?' 'Dundee.' And then again: Where are you really from?' And I'll say the town.

"I remember a time in Australia when I had gone to an outdoor cinema with a friend. We met up with some of their friends and that was the first thing they asked me; where are you from? Then their next question was: 'Where are your parents from?' I say India and Pakistan, and then I asked them the same thing. And they, as white Australians, were so shocked. Obviously no-one had ever asked them that before. But why do they think it's OK to ask where my parents are from?

"It's this idea that you, as a white person, are the default; you are the norm and anyone who deviates from that has to be justified and explained. Does that really have to be the first question you ask me? And why is my answer of Scotland so often challenged? I was born here. I grew up here. I'm not from anywhere else.

"I have white Scottish friends whose parents are Irish, Polish, or English, but their Scottishness is never challenged within the first few sentences of meeting someone. Yes, I have different heritage and I'm proud of that heritage. But I'm also still Scottish.

"People think they're just being friendly and they don't understand the lukewarm reaction they get, if they notice at all. But it's not a one-off. Believe us - black and brown people and other minority ethnic people get asked that question all the time. It is so tiring.

"Other times, even without having asked about my heritage, people launch into random stories about India on the assumption that I will of course know what they're talking about and be interested in it, because of my brownness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/53586529

Not microaggression.

Asking someone where they’re from is fine... I’ve asked it and been asked it. If I met a black person with an interesting “British/Australian’ accent I might ask, only because I would be curious if they were English, Scottish, Australia, etc. It’s got more to do with getting to know a person better.

I can’t recall and can’t imagine myself ever asking “where are you REALLY from”. That again is not microaggression. it’s just an asshole being an asshole, or if you prefer an idiot being an idiot.

[2dimes]

Phew, I can imagine it would be pretty tough to run and jump for a while after those conversations. Throwing or catching? Fugetabowtit.

[mrswdk]

Female athletes talk about the sexism and racism they face just for doing their job:

"'Where are you from? But where are you actually from?'

"That is an example of a micro-aggression. Every single brown, black and other minority ethnic person in this country has been asked that question so many times.

"My first answer will always be: 'I'm from Scotland.' And then they ask: 'Oh, where are you really from?' 'Dundee.' And then again: Where are you really from?' And I'll say the town.

"I remember a time in Australia when I had gone to an outdoor cinema with a friend. We met up with some of their friends and that was the first thing they asked me; where are you from? Then their next question was: 'Where are your parents from?' I say India and Pakistan, and then I asked them the same thing. And they, as white Australians, were so shocked. Obviously no-one had ever asked them that before. But why do they think it's OK to ask where my parents are from?

"It's this idea that you, as a white person, are the default; you are the norm and anyone who deviates from that has to be justified and explained. Does that really have to be the first question you ask me? And why is my answer of Scotland so often challenged? I was born here. I grew up here. I'm not from anywhere else.

"I have white Scottish friends whose parents are Irish, Polish, or English, but their Scottishness is never challenged within the first few sentences of meeting someone. Yes, I have different heritage and I'm proud of that heritage. But I'm also still Scottish.

"People think they're just being friendly and they don't understand the lukewarm reaction they get, if they notice at all. But it's not a one-off. Believe us - black and brown people and other minority ethnic people get asked that question all the time. It is so tiring.

"Other times, even without having asked about my heritage, people launch into random stories about India on the assumption that I will of course know what they're talking about and be interested in it, because of my brownness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/53586529

Not microaggression.

microaggression: a statement, action, or incident regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a racial or ethnic minority.

It's a textbook example of one. Want to try again?

[2dimes]

Jim, you seem to understand, but appear to reject the term.

Microagression is describing when it's difficult to tell if the person asking, "Where are you from?" Is just ignorant, or being a jerk and trying to hurt the other person's feelings. I suspect after a while even if the question is asked in an attempt to be friendly it becomes the cancelled Czech joke.

[mrswdk]

inb4 jim tells an ancdoate about something that used to be acceptable in the 1970s

[riskllama]

smoking in the office anywhere?

[2dimes]

smoking in the office anywhere?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Zt4RW42b8

[riskllama]

lol, i can do that w/the push of a button... .

[jimboston]

i don’t accept “microaggression” as a real thing.

I don’t care what poor definition you present.

It is a term used to describe a wide variety of interactions that should properly be described in other ways.
Some of those interactions may involve assholes being assholes, some may be harmless questions.
The net result makes otherwise harmless interactions seem ‘bad’.

I deny it as a valid concept.

[jonesthecurl]

Your sort always says stuff like that.

[mrswdk]

ITT: jim whitesplaining ethnic minorities about what they do and don’t have the right to be upset about

[jimboston]

ITT: jim whitesplaining ethnic minorities about what they do and don’t have the right to be upset about

The term “microaggression” is not specific to minorities... we were using them as an example created by you, but anyone can claim that they have been on the receiving end of ”microaggression”. So um NO.

I’m not ‘whitesplaning’ anything... which is another invalid term.

I’m ‘smartsplaning’ to YOU dummy, that the term is bandied about so casually, and it so universal, that it has no real valid useful meaning.

[jimboston]

Your sort always says stuff like that.

If you wanna jump in and give your opinion on the usefulness or lack thereof of the term great.

[jonesthecurl]

Sorry just trying to be micro-aggressive. I thought "Your sort" would be insulting without being specific.

[Dukasaur]

Sorry just trying to be micro-aggressive. I thought "Your sort" would be insulting without being specific.

I thought it was an anagram for "sour yurt", implying that not only is he poor and has to live in a yurt, but also is a curmudgeon.