BLM, tool of the Marxist

[Jdsizzleslice]

... because your comments.

I mean, yeah. I could be wrong.
I don’t KNOW it to be true in the sense that I’d bet serious money on it.

I do however ‘feel’ it to be true based on your comments.

So that’s what I’m going with.

Tell me how old you re and prove me wrong.
(I’d guess late 20’s no older than mid 30’s.)

Not giving out my PII, and I am not asking for yours either.

[jimboston]

... because your comments.

I mean, yeah. I could be wrong.
I don’t KNOW it to be true in the sense that I’d bet serious money on it.

I do however ‘feel’ it to be true based on your comments.

So that’s what I’m going with.

Tell me how old you re and prove me wrong.
(I’d guess late 20’s no older than mid 30’s.)

Not giving out my PII, and I am not asking for yours either.

Yeah... 29.

Thanks

[Jdsizzleslice]

Yeah... 29.

Thanks

You can assume my age all you want. That has no bearing on whether or not an argument is substantive.

But, since you're diminishing my point of view on this particular issue because you think my age is of the younger years, that would make you an ageist.

[riskllama]

[2dimes]

Those are some great classic rock guitar tones. I wonder if they are digital?

[Dukasaur]

Yeah... 29.

Thanks

You can assume my age all you want. That has no bearing on whether or not an argument is substantive.

Neither old age nor youth disqualifies you from making a coherent argument, that is true. I would not dismiss an argument made by a ten-year-old any more than I would dismiss an argument by a hundred-year-old.

But your age, like any other life circumstances, tends to give you certain inherent biases, and these come through in your thoughts. The way you maintain, against mountains of evidence, that anyone can become a millionaire, the way you dismiss systemic bias and how the cards are stacked in favour of the house and against the working man, especially the working man from an underprivileged background, these are biases, these are the biases of a successful young man who has not known despair.

It's not an insult, it's just the way it is. We can identify it because we've been there. When I was a twenty-something I was full of piss and vinegar, I thought I could do anything. I was a libertarian at the time, had utter contempt for the unions and the assorted social needs groups. Here I am, a few decades later. Worked hard all my life, still don't have the proverbial pot to piss in. A few failed business ventures, a divorce and a couple near-divorces, a few injuries and illnesses, watching various friends die, all these things have taught me what a fool I was when I was young and thought that anything was possible. There's a guy I work with who's 78 years old, can't afford to retire. Barely strong enough to hoist himself up into the truck, but he does, because he has no choice. Not the first guy like that who I've met, either.

Life events shape you, and they change your attitude.

[The ram]

Yeah... 29.

Thanks

You can assume my age all you want. That has no bearing on whether or not an argument is substantive.

Neither old age nor youth disqualifies you from making a coherent argument, that is true. I would not dismiss an argument made by a ten-year-old any more than I would dismiss an argument by a hundred-year-old.

But your age, like any other life circumstances, tends to give you certain inherent biases, and these come through in your thoughts. The way you maintain, against mountains of evidence, that anyone can become a millionaire, the way you dismiss systemic bias and how the cards are stacked in favour of the house and against the working man, especially the working man from an underprivileged background, these are biases, these are the biases of a successful young man who has not known despair.

It's not an insult, it's just the way it is. We can identify it because we've been there. When I was a twenty-something I was full of piss and vinegar, I thought I could do anything. I was a libertarian at the time, had utter contempt for the unions and the assorted social needs groups. Here I am, a few decades later. Worked hard all my life, still don't have the proverbial pot to piss in. A few failed business ventures, a divorce and a couple near-divorces, a few injuries and illnesses, watching various friends die, all these things have taught me what a fool I was when I was young and thought that anything was possible. There's a guy I work with who's 78 years old, can't afford to retire. Barely strong enough to hoist himself up into the truck, but he does, because he has no choice. Not the first guy like that who I've met, either.

Life events shape you, and they change your attitude.

Anyone can become a millionaire. I grew up in absolute poverty in Sunderland during the 70s and 80s, always hungry and never a penny in my pocket. I believe that this helped me in life, it made me develop business acumen at a young age. I was building up quite a nice little empire before the Corona virus pandemic, but it has been severely hit and I've had to sell a large part. I'm 49 now and I'm not going to get depressed or give up. I had taken a back seat in recent years and will have to get stuck in again , next week I'll be making bacon and egg sandwiches, flipping burgers and cups of tea and coffee. Work ethic and a bit of sense will decide how far you get in life, not how or where you grew up.

[Jdsizzleslice]

But your age, like any other life circumstances, tends to give you certain inherent biases, and these come through in your thoughts. The way you maintain, against mountains of evidence, that anyone can become a millionaire, the way you dismiss systemic bias and how the cards are stacked in favour of the house and against the working man, especially the working man from an underprivileged background, these are biases, these are the biases of a successful young man who has not known despair.

Jim didn't really use any evidence to back his claims, and so far neither are you. There is no "mountains of evidence" proving people are oppressed in the United States because of their skin color. There is equal opportunity for every single person under the law with the passing of the Civil Rights Act. The main root cause of poverty/crime is the lack of fathers in the home. We see this across all ethnicities. Children that do not have fathers in the home (regardless of ethnicity) have a propensity to stay in poverty and are more susceptible to crime. It's because children need both parents to help develop their sense of right and wrong. When they don't have that family structure, they are more than likely to fill that void with things that are not beneficial to their life (crime, not pursuing education, children out of wedlock, etc.). This is a point that I have stated multiple times. The reason that more black people are statistically more poor and statistically more likely to commit crimes is because black families are statistically more likely to NOT have a father in the home to help teach their children right and wrong.

It's not an insult, it's just the way it is. We can identify it because we've been there.

No, it is an insult because you and Jim are making the argument that because you think that I am a young person that "you just haven't experienced life yet to understand why you're wrong." Your life experiences are not my life experiences. You yourself stated that you wouldn't degrade someone's opinion because of their age and then proceeded to degrade my opinion because you think I'm a young person. That is an extremely hypocritical thing to say to someone. Shame on you, you ageist.

You don't know me at all. All you know is that I am an engineer. A degree that is one of the HARDEST to obtain and a job field that is one of the HARDEST to work in. And I worked extremely damn hard to get to where I am today.

Personal Responsibility. Determination. Choice. Striving for Success. Accomplishment. These factors are what make a person/society great.

[The ram]

Ah, don't worry ram, anyone who doesn't think exactly like Jim is a Nazi, racist, idiot, or any other derogatory term one could possibly think of...

I was just gonna point out to you the difference between racism and innate bias.

Ram is an outright Racist.

You have some innate biases, ones you can’t see or refuse to acknowledge, but you’re not out to hurt anyone.
I suspect your biases will disappear with some age and experience.

Ram the Racist is unlikely to change.

You clearly have comprehension difficulties. You think the be all and end all of a cohesive society boils down to economic conditions. Your knowledge of world history is astonishingly poor. And yet, you never acknowledge when you're wrong.

I'd imagine Jdsizzleslice also had a little laugh to himself whilst reading your patronising nonsense.

And I'm still waiting for your explanation of the contradiction in the OP.. This thread is not about saying black people are inferior, it's about how they are being used.

You turned the topic to race.

I just pointed out that your premise is flawed and full of contradictions... i did point them out but you don;t seem to comprehend basic logic.

I’m sorry, I can’t dumb my refutation of your premise down to a Kindergarten level for you.

You have stated that the OP is full of contradictions on numerous occasions.

You have tried to flip the thread into it being about race, with quite a bit of success because I have to explain myself to your accusations. I gave you an account of history in the run up to WW2 and you immediately called me a nazi.

You are a privileged little boy, who can't and won't accept his own shortcomings. So labels people, to make yourself feel comfortable.

[jimboston]

Yeah... 29.

Thanks

You can assume my age all you want. That has no bearing on whether or not an argument is substantive.

But, since you're diminishing my point of view on this particular issue because you think my age is of the younger years, that would make you an ageist.

LOL

You go me with an “ist”.

Some things can only be understood through experience, especially if one has been ‘programmed’ by their upbringing in some way that’s contrary to reality. Not everyone gets experience with age, some old people (re. Confederate SS) never let their minds open up. Your arguments have some logic, therefore even though you are unable to see the complete picture now I have faith you’ll get their.

... oh BTW, you kinda have it backward. I’m not diminishing your view because I assume your young. I’m diminishing your views because you are wrong. I’m assuming your young based on your ability to be logical, but your close minded approach to the subject. My thinking here is simple... your arguments have logic, but at the same time their’s a roadblock in your mind you can’t get past. Generally if someone demonstrates your ability to be logical in the way you have been, then my feeling is that over time your brain will break down those roadblocks.

That of course doesn’t mean you’ll 100% agree with me... in fact many older people who are also smart have weird ass political views. That said, the reason I feel you’ll “come around” is that I had similar views as you 25-30 years ago. Fast Forward 20 years and I have seen enough and been through enough life...

My root argument is that in order to explain the disparity in outcomes between white and black Americans; you either have to accept African Americans are some how racially inferior OR you have to admit there are systemic biases in our society that make better outcomes harder.

I do not believe they are racially inferior, and so therefore I have come to accept the second option.

Note, there are certainly other factors that contribute to less optimal outcomes.... yes individual decisions, birth situations (like where they live), family wealth, reduced social/economic opportunities... but no matter how you do the math the single largest factor comes down to race.

[jimboston]

Anyone can become a millionaire. I grew up in absolute poverty in Sunderland during the 70s and 80s, always hungry and never a penny in my pocket. I believe that this helped me in life, it made me develop business acumen at a young age. I was building up quite a nice little empire before the Corona virus pandemic, but it has been severely hit and I've had to sell a large part. I'm 49 now and I'm not going to get depressed or give up. I had taken a back seat in recent years and will have to get stuck in again , next week I'll be making bacon and egg sandwiches, flipping burgers and cups of tea and coffee. Work ethic and a bit of sense will decide how far you get in life, not how or where you grew up.

Work ethic and a bit of sense have a huge impact on how far you get in life.

How and where you grow up have a huge impact on how far you get in life.

They are both important and both contribute to your ‘outcome’.

Yes, there are many people born into low income situations who overcome those difficulties.
Yes, there are many people born into privilege who piss away everything.
Neither of these prove that only work ethic matters.

Example:
I send my kids to a private school. It’s not an ‘elite’ private school, it’s a Parochial school (run by a Catholic order of brothers). Because I pay for private school (vs. public school) my children have access to a better education than your average public school. (Note... yes, some public schools will be better, and some public schools will have honor programs within them that are better. However on average my kid’s school is going to do a better job.). Their school has more resources, better facilities etc. They get better teachers (on average) as they can pay more and they can fire bad teachers. The kids on average come from wealthier families, who are more likely to value and emphasize education, and whose parents are more likely to have college educations themselves. So the kids generally do better, therefore just to be ‘average’ in your peer group you are working harder and learning more than most public schools. Sure there are kids who drink and smoke weed and vape...happens everywhere... but it’s less at this private school; parents (as mentioned before) are valuing education more(in general)... also because it’s a private school they can expel serious troublemakers, something public schools have a much harder time doing.

At the end of the day, this school sends and avg. or 3% of graduates to ‘Top 25’ college; and something like 98-99% to 4 year colleges.

Yes, most of these kids.... coming from upper-middle income families with college educated parents... would already statistically be more likely to go to college than your ‘avg’ kid... but still those are good stats.

Now... across town their is an elite private school that charges $50K / year for tuition. That school has all the ‘benefits’ of the school my kids go to, but then they’re amplified even more. They get 99-100% going to 4 year college, but even more impressive they have close to 10% of graduates going to ‘Top 25’colleges...meaning Ivy League or just about Ivy, Stanford or MIT etc.

I couldn’t afford to send my kids to that school... plus if you barely scrape your way in your kid winds up being the ‘poor kid’ in the class, that has its’ own challenges.

THE POINT.

Money matters! There’s even a difference between upper-middle and truly “elite/rich”.

These kids going to great colleges were born into better situations and now at 18 graduating and going to college are still ‘ahead’ of most kids born into lower-income situations. Yes... you will get low income kids who are exceptions and who earn their way into great schools... but those statistically are less likely. Yes, you can get a trade or start a business... but again, those are the exceptions... not the common outcomes.

[Jdsizzleslice]

Some things can only be understood through experience, especially if one has been ‘programmed’ by their upbringing in some way that’s contrary to reality.

Programmed how? Are you insinuating that I don't know what it's like to live in the real world?

... oh BTW, you kinda have it backward. I’m not diminishing your view because I assume your young. I’m diminishing your views because you are wrong. I’m assuming your young based on your ability to be logical, but your close minded approach to the subject.

You’re ignorant because you haven’t experienced enough life to fully understand what your commenting on... you’re not ignorant simply because you disagree with me.

Two contradictory statements. Which is it, my assumed age or my opinion that "shows I am wrong?"

My root argument is that in order to explain the disparity in outcomes between white and black Americans; you either have to accept African Americans are some how racially inferior OR you have to admit there are systemic biases in our society that make better outcomes harder.

I disagree with both. Black people are not racially inferior nor are they systematically oppressed. I'll choose option C: a decline of the father in the home in the black community (rooted in personal choice).

[mookiemcgee]

... because your comments.

I mean, yeah. I could be wrong.
I don’t KNOW it to be true in the sense that I’d bet serious money on it.

I do however ‘feel’ it to be true based on your comments.

So that’s what I’m going with.

Tell me how old you re and prove me wrong.
(I’d guess late 20’s no older than mid 30’s.)

Not giving out my PII, and I am not asking for yours either.

Yeah... 29.

Thanks

Ok Boomer! (JD, you really whiffed on this one.)

[mrswdk]

[mrswdk]

[Jdsizzleslice]

If you have 2 hours, watch this episode of the Brett Weinstein Podcast. It was great to listen to different ideas.

[riskllama]

still a thing apparently, Jar Jar...

[jimboston]

Some things can only be understood through experience, especially if one has been ‘programmed’ by their upbringing in some way that’s contrary to reality.

Programmed how? Are you insinuating that I don't know what it's like to live in the real world?

You’ve been programmed by your upbringing to believe that individual initiative is the ONLY THING that matters... and that individual initiative can overcome ANY obstacle. It’s not and it can’t. It matters, it matters a great deal... but other factors play a role, and some of those factors are racially based.

... oh BTW, you kinda have it backward. I’m not diminishing your view because I assume your young. I’m diminishing your views because you are wrong. I’m assuming your young based on your ability to be logical, but your close minded approach to the subject.

You’re ignorant because you haven’t experienced enough life to fully understand what your commenting on... you’re not ignorant simply because you disagree with me.

Two contradictory statements. Which is it, my assumed age or my opinion that "shows I am wrong?"

There’s nothing contrary or contradictory in my statements. Please reread.

My root argument is that in order to explain the disparity in outcomes between white and black Americans; you either have to accept African Americans are some how racially inferior OR you have to admit there are systemic biases in our society that make better outcomes harder.

I disagree with both. Black people are not racially inferior nor are they systematically oppressed. I'll choose option C: a decline of the father in the home in the black community (rooted in personal choice).

So it all comes down to bad dad?

OK... so how do we as a society help address the bad decisions of past fathers so that present and future fathers in that community can give future children an even starting point? Or do we just ignore it?

Bad dads are definitely part of the problem... but they aren’t the whole problem.

How does the war-on-drugs impact a father’s ability to. be there for his kids in low-income and/or African American communities?\

How does lack of educational opportunities impact this problem?

How do social networks that help people get through rough times and/or help them find better work... how do these factor in?

There’s no one silver bullet... but you’re getting closer.

[riskllama]

stay in school, Jar Jar - you'll get there...

[Jdsizzleslice]

You’ve been programmed by your upbringing to believe that individual initiative is the ONLY THING that matters... and that individual initiative can overcome ANY obstacle. It’s not and it can’t. It matters, it matters a great deal... but other factors play a role, and some of those factors are racially based.

You don't know me or my upbringing. You are trying to assume what my upbringing was based on my current viewpoint, to which you would be very wrong. And that, my friend, is why my conversations with you don't go anywhere.

There’s nothing contrary or contradictory in my statements. Please reread.

No, it's contradictory. You initially state that you aren't diminishing my view because of my assumed age, but then you call me ignorant because of my assumed age.

So it all comes down to bad dad?

Not entirely. Fatherless homes are a large portion if why people take the path of crime.

OK... so how do we as a society help address the bad decisions of past fathers so that present and future fathers in that community can give future children an even starting point? Or do we just ignore it?

I would be in favor of significantly reducing the Welfare State, and stop giving incentives to individuals who have kids to remain separated (a.k.a. fatherless homes). That would definitely be a start in the right direction. Based off the US Census statistics, we actually see that after Welfare was passed, we saw an extreme uptick in single parent homes across the board.

Even today, the US has the highest rate of divorce in the world. We as a nation have forgotten how special marriage and the family structure is.

Bad dads are definitely part of the problem... but they aren’t the whole problem.

I agree.

How does the war-on-drugs impact a father’s ability to. be there for his kids in low-income and/or African American communities?

Personally, I don't understand why weed is a Class-1 substance. I would be in favor of rolling that back a bit. Other hard drugs such as Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, etc. definitely deserve their punishment, in my opinion.

How does lack of educational opportunities impact this problem?

Educational opportunities in which regard? Elementary, Secondary, Undergrad, Post-Grad? Or do you mean all of it? Or do you mean something different?

How do social networks that help people get through rough times and/or help them find better work... how do these factor in?

Social Networks are a good thing. However, my stance on this is that it shouldn't be the government's job to create and maintain social networks, but the community. I think that some communities rely on the government for things like this and it ends up hurting them in the long-run.

There’s no one silver bullet... but you’re getting closer.

No one silver bullet, but fatherless homes are a large portion of the bullet. Ultimately, choice is the determining factor in your life as far as your life's direction is concerned. But an environment in which you are not raised with a father will lead a very significant amount of people to think things are ok when they are not ok, namely crime, having children while not married, not finishing your basic education, etc.

[jimboston]

You’ve made some progress... I’ll see you next thread.

[The ram]

I was apparently late to the party. Could someone point me to ram's alleged racist posts?

Don't want to waste a lot of time on this, but here's one gem:
Subject: Extremist violence rising in Europe

I'm always a, "give the people what they want" type of guy, within reason

If the natives don't want immigration and want to keep their nationalist towns ethnically pure, I think there should be a place for that as long as there's understanding that they'll be checked (government military action) if they decide to engage in genocide outside of their, "safe space"

The human species is a world organism which consists of organs and cells(A German region consisting only of white nationalist movement would be the cell, Europe would be the organ)

The neighboring areas would consist of those who can mix together/play nice and as a buffer to Muslims and Jews who worship peacefully at their place of worship, free of bomb threats and other BS

There's many reasons this wouldn't work, mainly being that the all white areas would advance in every area much quicker, the standard of living would be better, economy would be far greater and this would entice the indolent and parasitic races, along with the communists. Jeez I just gave you a history lesson lol

Any idea who the "indolent and parasitic races" are? Definitely not the ones that the ram is a member of, I'm sure.

There's more to this than just posting that post.

Now, myself and dukasaur exchanged a few pm's in the days leading up to this post. He refused to act on a post that praised Islamic terrorists and said it was made in jest. So I explained to him that he was setting a precedent for 'jokey' posts. I still have the pm's. So I made this post as a joke, intentionally not mentioning any race.

He acted immediately. Much like when he banned me for raising awareness of asylum seekers attacking an old lady. He was so hurt because he claims that he was an asylum seeker. So, in a nutshell, he can love his people but I can't love my peoples. Who's the racist?

[mrswdk]

Who are 'your people'? Fat old skinheads from an estate on the edge of Portsmouth?

[jimboston]

I was apparently late to the party. Could someone point me to ram's alleged racist posts?

Don't want to waste a lot of time on this, but here's one gem:
Subject: Extremist violence rising in Europe

I'm always a, "give the people what they want" type of guy, within reason

If the natives don't want immigration and want to keep their nationalist towns ethnically pure, I think there should be a place for that as long as there's understanding that they'll be checked (government military action) if they decide to engage in genocide outside of their, "safe space"

The human species is a world organism which consists of organs and cells(A German region consisting only of white nationalist movement would be the cell, Europe would be the organ)

The neighboring areas would consist of those who can mix together/play nice and as a buffer to Muslims and Jews who worship peacefully at their place of worship, free of bomb threats and other BS

There's many reasons this wouldn't work, mainly being that the all white areas would advance in every area much quicker, the standard of living would be better, economy would be far greater and this would entice the indolent and parasitic races, along with the communists. Jeez I just gave you a history lesson lol

Any idea who the "indolent and parasitic races" are? Definitely not the ones that the ram is a member of, I'm sure.

There's more to this than just posting that post.

Now, myself and dukasaur exchanged a few pm's in the days leading up to this post. He refused to act on a post that praised Islamic terrorists and said it was made in jest. So I explained to him that he was setting a precedent for 'jokey' posts. I still have the pm's. So I made this post as a joke, intentionally not mentioning any race.

He acted immediately. Much like when he banned me for raising awareness of asylum seekers attacking an old lady. He was so hurt because he claims that he was an asylum seeker. So, in a nutshell, he can love his people but I can't love my peoples. Who's the racist?

I’m calling Bullshit on this bolded comment.

[The ram]

I was apparently late to the party. Could someone point me to ram's alleged racist posts?

Don't want to waste a lot of time on this, but here's one gem:
Subject: Extremist violence rising in Europe

I'm always a, "give the people what they want" type of guy, within reason

If the natives don't want immigration and want to keep their nationalist towns ethnically pure, I think there should be a place for that as long as there's understanding that they'll be checked (government military action) if they decide to engage in genocide outside of their, "safe space"

The human species is a world organism which consists of organs and cells(A German region consisting only of white nationalist movement would be the cell, Europe would be the organ)

The neighboring areas would consist of those who can mix together/play nice and as a buffer to Muslims and Jews who worship peacefully at their place of worship, free of bomb threats and other BS

There's many reasons this wouldn't work, mainly being that the all white areas would advance in every area much quicker, the standard of living would be better, economy would be far greater and this would entice the indolent and parasitic races, along with the communists. Jeez I just gave you a history lesson lol

Any idea who the "indolent and parasitic races" are? Definitely not the ones that the ram is a member of, I'm sure.

There's more to this than just posting that post.

Now, myself and dukasaur exchanged a few pm's in the days leading up to this post. He refused to act on a post that praised Islamic terrorists and said it was made in jest. So I explained to him that he was setting a precedent for 'jokey' posts. I still have the pm's. So I made this post as a joke, intentionally not mentioning any race.

He acted immediately. Much like when he banned me for raising awareness of asylum seekers attacking an old lady. He was so hurt because he claims that he was an asylum seeker. So, in a nutshell, he can love his people but I can't love my peoples. Who's the racist?

I’m calling Bullshit on this bolded comment.

You have already shown me that your perception of reality is warped.

I really don't mind what you think.

There wasn't even a race mentioned. Or was there in your mind?