Diseased Westerners banned from Singapore

[jimboston]

Fun fact: the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand only took place because of a misplaced comma. If the comma had been in the right place then the Black Hand Gang would actually have asked Archduke Ferdinand's permission for them to assassinate a much less high-profile target.

You’re trying to make fun of me... but tons of money is spent on interpreting the US Constitution, and the meanings of specific phrases.
In direct respect to this, the Second Amendment is supposedly missing a comma...

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-com ... ent-2013-8

So yeah... language is important.

[mookiemcgee]

close enough...*shrugs*

Seriously, half the problems in this world could be solved if people would learn to communicate better.

[mrswdk]

Fun fact: the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand only took place because of a misplaced comma. If the comma had been in the right place then the Black Hand Gang would actually have asked Archduke Ferdinand's permission for them to assassinate a much less high-profile target.

You’re trying to make fun of me...

I’m not. Look up the Vienna Comma.

[jimboston]

close enough...*shrugs*

Seriously, half the problems in this world could be solved if people would learn to communicate better.

Fair enough... but communication is a two way street.

If the people you’re trying to talk to obstinately refuse to even try to understand you then it’s a pretty hard road.

[2dimes]

I certainly would not have done that but not because I think the controller is a mythical creature.

I follow the rules because I want the rules there to facilitate control of all the aircraft in a particular airspace. If I'm flying one, it's my responsibility to help the controllers choreograph our movements. If a controller does not clear me into their airspace, I don't enter that airspace. Most of my motivation is to help the controllers know they can trust me to change my altitude or direction to avoid other traffic and be approximately where they want me to go.

When I was a student pilot, instructors at the school I was at used to warn of how mean the controllers were at the bigger airport nearby they would say, "Just stay away." I thought, "If I plan to fly for a job, I better figure out how to operate there." Once I finished my PPL I switched to a school based at the busy airport.

It turned out to be simple enough. Maintain your direction and altitude so they know where you will be.

Everyone was right to get cranky with that pilot because after refusing to leave the bravo airspace, he simply could not be trusted.

[mookiemcgee]

close enough...*shrugs*

Seriously, half the problems in this world could be solved if people would learn to communicate better.

Fair enough... but communication is a two way street.

If the people you’re trying to talk to obstinately refuse to even try to understand you then it’s a pretty hard road.

Yeah, it's almost like those people are trying to tell you that you are doing a poor job communicating...

[2dimes]

No you.

[jimboston]

Yeah, it's almost like those people are trying to tell you that you are doing a poor job communicating...

Or not.

[mookiemcgee]

Yeah, it's almost like those people are trying to tell you that you are doing a poor job communicating...

Or not.

Once again demonstrating you don't have an open mind, but continue to decry how others won't listen/communicate.

[jimboston]

Yeah, it's almost like those people are trying to tell you that you are doing a poor job communicating...

Or not.

Once again demonstrating you don't have an open mind, but continue to decry how others won't listen/communicate.

Dude, that tit-for-tat in the other thread is history.
I don’t know why you want to continue it by attacking me, but if makes you feel better go for it.

i still maintain... in that thread I may have taken some shorthand explanations of my thoughts... but overall the logic trail was fine.
Neither of you wanted to engagement in a positive way and so the conversation degenerated. That’s a two-way street

[2dimes]

Canadians get free govt Codeine. That's pretty cool.

Today my daughter got a prescription for Tylenol with Codeine. We paid $2.98 of the $11 and change for 20 tablets. Wife's work insurance paid the rest.

[mookiemcgee]

Yeah, it's almost like those people are trying to tell you that you are doing a poor job communicating...

Or not.

Once again demonstrating you don't have an open mind, but continue to decry how others won't listen/communicate.

Neither of you wanted to engagement in a positive way and so the conversation degenerated. That’s a two-way street

Jd and I ( on opposites sides of an issue) had a very positive conversation... It didn't degenerate until you got involved claiming you were right and everyone else was wrong.

Sorry you feel attacked, maybe you should try group therapy to uncover why you react so defensively in conversations where people don't agree with you?

[jimboston]

Jd and I ( on opposites sides of an issue) had a very positive conversation... It didn't degenerate until you got involved claiming you were right and everyone else was wrong.

Sorry you feel attacked, maybe you should try group therapy to uncover why you react so defensively in conversations where people don't agree with you?

What did you two accomplish during your ‘very positive conversation’?

He still thinks African Americans are statistically more likely to...
(FILL IN THE BLANK)
- be lower income or poor compared to white Americans
- be less educated compared to white Americans
- be more likely to end up in jail compared to white Americans
- die at a younger age than white Americans
... due to bad decisions, and bad upbringing or ‘culture’,
and not because there is any innate bias in American society.

None of the facts that African Americans have worse outcomes are disputed.
(i.e. those bullet points noted above)

Is he or you disputing that these are bullet pointed items are well known and accepted facts?
(If that’s what I need to prove it’s easy... but I don’t think any of that is disputed.)

What’s disputed is the “why”.

So you and he talked in a beautiful positive conversation... yet he still holds the BIASED view that
these statistical outcomes are due solely to the actions and and ‘culture’ of African Americans.

Yah!

I contend that the events of the past month have demonstrated that the time for polite conversation has passed and we must call things what they are... and his view (though not racist) is certainly biased and blinded by his own innate and un acknowledged prejudices. We all have them. I try to it have them, but I’m sure I am biased too.

Meanwhile... though individual decisions matter, and family life and upbringing definitely matters, those factors alone cannot explain, nor can we as a society expect them to help solve the problems.

Yes, individual African Americans do overcome many of the challenges... and yes many African Americans are well educated and rich... but that is how statistics work...you have outliers. It’s common sense. Do I have to start explaining how statistics work here?

[mookiemcgee]

Jd and I ( on opposites sides of an issue) had a very positive conversation... It didn't degenerate until you got involved claiming you were right and everyone else was wrong.

Sorry you feel attacked, maybe you should try group therapy to uncover why you react so defensively in conversations where people don't agree with you?

So you and he talked in a beautiful positive conversation... yet he still holds the BIASED view that
these statistical outcomes are due solely to the actions and and ‘culture’ of African Americans.

I contend that the events of the past month have demonstrated that the time for polite conversation has passed and we must call things what they are... and his view (though not racist) is certainly biased and blinded by his own innate and un acknowledged prejudices. We all have them. I try to it have them, but I’m sure I am biased too.

He holds a different view than you do, which he extrapolated from the exact same facts at your disposal...both you and he making presumptions about the causation of the sited facts/statistic (because again these facts/statistics only show correlation)... he is biased, and you are too... but you are factually correct and he is factually wrong... because his bias is preventing him from seeing things your way, is that it Jim?

Thanks for clearing up how your bias allows you to be factually correct, but his bias makes him wrong.

[jimboston]

He holds a different view than you do, which he extrapolated from the exact same facts at your disposal...both you and he making presumptions about the causation of the sited facts/statistic (because again these facts/statistics only show correlation)... he is biased, and you are too... but you are factually correct and he is factually wrong... because his bias is preventing him from seeing things your way, is that it Jim?

Thanks for clearing up how your bias allows you to be factually correct, but his bias makes him wrong.

His extrapolation is faulty due to limited life experience and closed-mindedness.

Unfortunately we as a society can no longer accept blindness as an excuse to slow progress.

You addition of faulty assumptions doesn’t change reality... unfortunately it does change how you perceive it.

[mookiemcgee]

He holds a different view than you do, which he extrapolated from the exact same facts at your disposal...both you and he making presumptions about the causation of the sited facts/statistic (because again these facts/statistics only show correlation)... he is biased, and you are too... but you are factually correct and he is factually wrong... because his bias is preventing him from seeing things your way, is that it Jim?

Thanks for clearing up how your bias allows you to be factually correct, but his bias makes him wrong.

His extrapolation is faulty due to limited life experience and closed-mindedness.

I wasn't aware you and JD have known each other since childbirth, since you are fully prepared to speak about his life experience.

Unfortunately we as a society can no longer accept blindness as an excuse to slow progress.

More Angry Jim stamping his feet and solving problems

You addition of faulty assumptions doesn’t change reality... unfortunately it does change how you perceive it.

The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it.*

(hint* this applies to you too Jim)

[Jdsizzleslice]

mookie, you and I both know that you can't have a rational conversation with someone who isn't willing to have their mind changed or willing to listen to opposing viewpoints without telling them they are wrong.

The things I enjoyed about our dialog are that even though we disagreed on some points and agreed on others, we didn't declare the other person "wrong" just because of their stance based on our own interpretations. We wanted to understand each others opinions, not necessarily to argue or debate, but to understand another thought process. In my own mind I equate this to (albeit extreme, but nonetheless parallel) trying to understand the thought process of a serial killer. We have seen interviews of people like Ted Bundy. We absolutely condemn, disavow, and disagree with their actions but there is an intrigue as to what makes them think the way they do. This is the parallel I try to make when having a discussion with someone who I don't see eye-to-eye with. Again extreme, but the painting I'm trying to draw here is that putting on your understanding "hat" is what helps unity in a society.

Some things aren't always black or white. My thought process (specifically in one of the toughest degrees to earn and one of the toughest occupations: engineering) tend to classify things as either logical or illogical based strictly on fact and evidence with heavy backing claims, and I have worked to expand my understanding to a point where I can work a little grey in there, especially when talking about politicized matters.

Blanket statements/absolutes are, most of the time, authoritarian. Bend the knee, or else. Do you know who else uses blanket statements? Communists/Marxists (P.S., that was indeed a blanket statement, lol). Communists are the "real" Sith Lords, lol.

[mookiemcgee]

mookie, you and I both know that you can't have a rational conversation with someone who isn't willing to have their mind changed or willing to listen to opposing viewpoints without telling them they are wrong.

The things I enjoyed about our dialog are that even though we disagreed on some points and agreed on others, we didn't declare the other person "wrong" just because of their stance based on our own interpretations. We wanted to understand each others opinions, not necessarily to argue or debate, but to understand another thought process. In my own mind I equate this to (albeit extreme, but nonetheless parallel) trying to understand the thought process of a serial killer. We have seen interviews of people like Ted Bundy. We absolutely condemn, disavow, and disagree with their actions but there is an intrigue as to what makes them think the way they do. This is the parallel I try to make when having a discussion with someone who I don't see eye-to-eye with. Again extreme, but the painting I'm trying to draw here is that putting on your understanding "hat" is what helps unity in a society.

Some things aren't always black or white. My thought process (specifically in one of the toughest degrees to earn and one of the toughest occupations: engineering) tend to classify things as either logical or illogical based strictly on fact and evidence with heavy backing claims, and I have worked to expand my understanding to a point where I can work a little grey in there, especially when talking about politicized matters.

Blanket statements/absolutes are, most of the time, authoritarian. Bend the knee, or else. Do you know who else uses blanket statements? Communists/Marxists (P.S., that was indeed a blanket statement, lol). Communists are the "real" Sith Lords, lol.

ok, but you are the serial killer and I'm the one trying to understand
Been re-watching Hannibal, mostly because Netflix keeps telling me to. That first season is so epic!

[jimboston]

you and I both know that you can't have a rational conversation with someone who isn't willing to have their mind changed or willing to listen to opposing viewpoints without telling them they are wrong.

Said the pot to the kettle.

[Jdsizzleslice]

ok, but you are the serial killer and I'm the one trying to understand
Been re-watching Hannibal, mostly because Netflix keeps telling me to. That first season is so epic!

No, you're the serial killer! Don't eat my brainz!