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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby Dukasaur on Fri May 15, 2020 2:28 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:THE CURE IS A NICOTINE PATCH!

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/no-proof-smokers-protected-against-covid-19-epidemiologist-explains-how-studies-get-misinterpreted-1.4938619
In the case of the France study, it muddies the data when it’s unclear what percentage of that 60 per cent quit smoking recently.

The France study also specified that they gathered this data by asking patients about their smoking habits, which leaves the possibility that some patients weren’t completely honest.

They acknowledge in the discussion portion of their study that “because this is a cross-sectional study, we cannot confirm the causality of this association,” between smoking and a potential protective effect. They also acknowledged that the outpatients they studied were from a limited area around a Parisian hospital, and that healthcare workers were over-represented in the outpatient group.

Their hypothesis is that it’s not the act of smoking that could protect people, but nicotine itself, theorizing that it could adhere to the cell receptors that the novel coronavirus targets and block the virus.

However, there is no proof of this yet.

The researchers said in April they planned to test further by using nicotine patches on health-care workers in a Paris hospital to measure if the nicotine could protect them, but these additional tests do not appear to have been carried out yet.

“Our findings should be interpreted cautiously,” the initial study said.
{emphasis added}
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby mookiemcgee on Fri May 15, 2020 2:39 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:THE CURE IS A NICOTINE PATCH!

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/no-proof-smokers-protected-against-covid-19-epidemiologist-explains-how-studies-get-misinterpreted-1.4938619
In the case of the France study, it muddies the data when it’s unclear what percentage of that 60 per cent quit smoking recently.

The France study also specified that they gathered this data by asking patients about their smoking habits, which leaves the possibility that some patients weren’t completely honest.

They acknowledge in the discussion portion of their study that “because this is a cross-sectional study, we cannot confirm the causality of this association,” between smoking and a potential protective effect. They also acknowledged that the outpatients they studied were from a limited area around a Parisian hospital, and that healthcare workers were over-represented in the outpatient group.

Their hypothesis is that it’s not the act of smoking that could protect people, but nicotine itself, theorizing that it could adhere to the cell receptors that the novel coronavirus targets and block the virus.

However, there is no proof of this yet.

The researchers said in April they planned to test further by using nicotine patches on health-care workers in a Paris hospital to measure if the nicotine could protect them, but these additional tests do not appear to have been carried out yet.

“Our findings should be interpreted cautiously,” the initial study said.
{emphasis added}


Well first of all, it's a new virus. All findings should be interpreted cautiously in every study being done on any vaccine/treatment! Obviously doctors/scientist don't want this to be an effective treatment. The whole situation is super ironic, but do you really think the media would report anything positive about nicotine and smoking if there wasn't some pretty significant reasons to believe it made a difference?

No other drug being tested has shown anywhere near 80% reduction symptoms, let along one that is cheap and readily available. Would it be so bad to ask people to put a patch on if it got everyone back to work and allowed business' to open up? It could literally start tomorrow if the studys currently being done match the results of this first study in france
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby Dukasaur on Fri May 15, 2020 3:29 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
Well first of all, it's a new virus. All findings should be interpreted cautiously in every study being done on any vaccine/treatment! Obviously doctors/scientist don't want this to be an effective treatment. The whole situation is super ironic, but do you really think the media would report anything positive about nicotine and smoking if there wasn't some pretty significant reasons to believe it made a difference?

No other drug being tested has shown anywhere near 80% reduction symptoms, let along one that is cheap and readily available. Would it be so bad to ask people to put a patch on if it got everyone back to work and allowed business' to open up? It could literally start tomorrow if the studys currently being done match the results of this first study in france

Sure, if it works, do it. Thus far, no real evidence that it works, as far as I can see.

Don't know what you're reading into the data, but I think you're reading in something that isn't there.

So far, no study has been completed concerning the effects of nicotine on covid; there is only conjecture. There was one study that was supposed to have started in April, but I see no confirmation that it ever began.

The French study that you posted is just large population-scale numbers. Smokers are being hospitalized with covid far less than non-smokers. Smokers are also far more likely to be young (most people start smoking in their teens and then at some point quit. Very few people take up smoking later in life. The result is that smoking frequency drops steadily with age.) We know from other studies that the young can often get covid and have no symptoms, or very light symptoms. So, until there's a study that checks year-by-year age cohorts, this is just speculation.

I wouldn't be opposed if something simple like nicotine was a cure. I just don't see any evidence just yet, only speculation.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby mookiemcgee on Fri May 15, 2020 5:00 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
Well first of all, it's a new virus. All findings should be interpreted cautiously in every study being done on any vaccine/treatment! Obviously doctors/scientist don't want this to be an effective treatment. The whole situation is super ironic, but do you really think the media would report anything positive about nicotine and smoking if there wasn't some pretty significant reasons to believe it made a difference?

No other drug being tested has shown anywhere near 80% reduction symptoms, let along one that is cheap and readily available. Would it be so bad to ask people to put a patch on if it got everyone back to work and allowed business' to open up? It could literally start tomorrow if the studys currently being done match the results of this first study in france

Sure, if it works, do it. Thus far, no real evidence that it works, as far as I can see.

Don't know what you're reading into the data, but I think you're reading in something that isn't there.

So far, no study has been completed concerning the effects of nicotine on covid; there is only conjecture. There was one study that was supposed to have started in April, but I see no confirmation that it ever began.

The French study that you posted is just large population-scale numbers. Smokers are being hospitalized with covid far less than non-smokers. Smokers are also far more likely to be young (most people start smoking in their teens and then at some point quit. Very few people take up smoking later in life. The result is that smoking frequency drops steadily with age.) We know from other studies that the young can often get covid and have no symptoms, or very light symptoms. So, until there's a study that checks year-by-year age cohorts, this is just speculation.

I wouldn't be opposed if something simple like nicotine was a cure. I just don't see any evidence just yet, only speculation.



One simple chain of facts persists, and you won't find a serious study out there proving otherwise. This disease is at it's most lethal when it's affecting the lungs. Smokers have bad lungs. Smokers are not getting seriously ill as frequently as non-smokers. You can speculate about how all the smokers were young and that's why they didn't get sick, but there is zero evidence that is the case... it's pure speculation on your part.

You can discount the study if you want through speculation on your part, but what it said was pretty clear:

The rate of current daily smokers was significantly lower in COVID-19 outpatients and inpatients (80.3% and 75.4%, respectively), as compared to that in the French general population with standardized incidence ratios according to sex and age of 0.197 [0.094 - 0.41] and 0.246 [0.148 - 0.408]. These ratios did not significantly differ between the two groups (P=0.63).

Conclusions and relevance: Our cross sectional study in both COVID-19 out- and inpatients strongly suggests that daily smokers have a very much lower probability of developing symptomatic or severe SARS-CoV-2 infection as compared to the general population.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby Dukasaur on Fri May 15, 2020 8:06 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:and you won't find a serious study out there proving otherwise. This disease is at it's most lethal when it's affecting the lungs. Smokers have bad lungs. Smokers are not getting seriously ill as frequently as non-smokers. You can speculate about how all the smokers were young and that's why they didn't get sick, but there is zero evidence that is the case... it's pure speculation on your part.

The opposite is also pure speculation at this point.

So far you have two studies which seem to suggest that there may be a protective effect. That's not a very big body of work. Both studies only show that smokers are seeking treatment for covid at a lower rate than non-smokers. There could be a multitude of reasons for that. (For instance, it could be that most people with a smokers' cough and a mild case of covid conflate the two, and don't bother seeking treatment because they figure it's just the usual cough.)

Standing opposite to that, you have a multitude of studies that show treatment outcomes are worse for smokers.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0233147
The calculated RR showed that current smokers were 1.45 times more likely [95% CI: 1.03–2.04] to have severe complications compared to former and never smokers. Current smokers also had a higher mortality rate of 38.5%.


Maybe nicotine will turn out to be the miracle cure. We shall see. Until we start getting some results from some studies testing nicotine in non-smokers, I'll reserve judgement.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby Keefie on Sat May 16, 2020 4:52 am

The best defence is vitamin D.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby mookiemcgee on Sat May 16, 2020 4:47 pm

Keefie wrote:The best defence is vitamin D.


I'm not into men that way, but thanks for the suggestion. Mrsdyk, i think he's directing this one at you.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby Keefie on Sun May 17, 2020 1:22 am

mookiemcgee wrote:
Keefie wrote:The best defence is vitamin D.


I'm not into men that way, but thanks for the suggestion. Mrsdyk, i think he's directing this one at you.


Not at all. There have already been a number of studies into whether vitamin D deficiency is a factor regarding the severity of symptoms, including death.

https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2020/04/28/Clear-link-between-vitamin-D-deficiency-and-severity-of-coronavirus-say-researchers#
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby Dukasaur on Sun May 17, 2020 9:30 am

Keefie wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
Keefie wrote:The best defence is vitamin D.


I'm not into men that way, but thanks for the suggestion. Mrsdyk, i think he's directing this one at you.


Not at all. There have already been a number of studies into whether vitamin D deficiency is a factor regarding the severity of symptoms, including death.

https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2020/04/28/Clear-link-between-vitamin-D-deficiency-and-severity-of-coronavirus-say-researchers#


Trouble is, we don't know where the causative link is. We already know that high blood sugar correlates strongly with bad outcomes. High blood sugar also correlates strongly with obesity, and obesity correlates strongly with Vitamin D deficiency. So when we see more data like Vitamin D deficiency correlates with bad covid outcomes, that doesn't tell us where the causative link is. Are people having worse covid outcomes because they are short of Vitamin D, or are they having worse covid outcomes because they have high blood sugar, which just coincidentally correlates with Vitamin D deficiency?
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon May 18, 2020 7:46 am

Here is another related point:

1) COVID-19 is basically a flu, RIGHT?

2) We have a vaccine, of sorts, for the flu. (It is not 100% effective. And further, mortality from COVID-19 is not 100%, no where near that.)

3) We are waiting for a vaccine (for COVID-19) to make things safe, WHEN we do not have an effective vaccine for the flu (influenza). Some years the flu vaccine is only about 60% effective.

Further:

I think our generally cautious re-opening of business and society is a good plan going forward.

and...

To reiterate a point I made earlier, most who die already are ill and/or aged and more likely to die of ANYTHING, basically (any disease). Being over 65 and/or having underlying health conditions, such as heart disease, diabetes, and immune compromised, are a few of the MAIN conditions.

So how many healthy, young, and working age people are saved by the Lock down? (from the disease and from death caused by COVID-19)? That is a key question and does not seem to be generally addressed.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby betiko on Mon May 18, 2020 8:18 am

jusplay4fun wrote:Here is another related point:

1) COVID-19 is basically a flu, RIGHT?

2) We have a vaccine, of sorts, for the flu. (It is not 100% effective. And further, mortality from COVID-19 is not 100%, no where near that.)

3) We are waiting for a vaccine (for COVID-19) to make things safe, WHEN we do not have an effective vaccine for the flu (influenza). Some years the flu vaccine is only about 60% effective.

Further:

I think our generally cautious re-opening of business and society is a good plan going forward.

and...

To reiterate a point I made earlier, most who die already are ill and/or aged and more likely to die of ANYTHING, basically (any disease). Being over 65 and/or having underlying health conditions, such as heart disease, diabetes, and immune compromised, are a few of the MAIN conditions.

So how many healthy, young, and working age people are saved by the Lock down? (from the disease and from death caused by COVID-19)? That is a key question and does not seem to be generally addressed.


the covid 19 has nothing to do with the flu. it spreads at unreasonable higher rates, you can' really compare them.
And you still don't get the lock down thing.......... if everybody catches it at the same time, lots of people that would normally survive the virus by being treated would've died by lack of medical care, because the health systemp just does not have the capacity to take care of an entire population sick at the same time. The lock down has always been about having a lower peak of desead people at once in order to materially being able to take care of patients.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby Dukasaur on Mon May 18, 2020 11:57 am

jusplay4fun wrote:1) COVID-19 is basically a flu, RIGHT?

Well, not really. They are both RNA viruses with a somewhat similar morphology, but very different behaviour.

Flus (influenzas) are part of the family Orthomyxoviridea, while Covid is is part of Coronaviridae.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_classification#RNA_viruses

It probably doesn't help much to use comparisons from animal taxonomy, but covid and the flu are about as similar as dogs and muskrats. Which is to say, their outer shape clearly suggests that they have a common ancestor somewhere in the sands of time, but they're not close enough to call each other brother. This becomes significant when you talk about the vaccine...

jusplay4fun wrote:2) We have a vaccine, of sorts, for the flu. (It is not 100% effective. And further, mortality from COVID-19 is not 100%, no where near that.)

3) We are waiting for a vaccine (for COVID-19) to make things safe, WHEN we do not have an effective vaccine for the flu (influenza). Some years the flu vaccine is only about 60% effective.

Here's where the differences become significant. Influenza is a rapidly-mutating virus. I comes in literally HUNDREDS of sub-types. Each sub-type (strain) must be vaccinated for independently. It would be prohibitively expensive to vaccinate against all of them, so every February the WHO evaluates which strains of influenza are on the rise and are likely to be factors in the upcoming flu season. Then each country starts manufacturing vaccines for just those strains. The process takes most of the spring and summer, so the vaccines can be ready for the fall.

Usually between 3 and 6 strains of influenza are included in the package. This last year, your flu shot included the following strains:
https://www.uabmedicine.org/-/flu-strains-explained-and-how-the-vaccine-works
    An A/Michigan/45/2015 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus
    An A/Singapore/INFIMH-16-0019/2016 (H3N2)-like virus
    A B/Colorado/06/2017-like virus (B/Victoria/2/87 lineage)
    A B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata/16/88 lineage)


There are several reasons why this process isn't perfectly effective. First, obviously it's only a selection. In this case, four strains selected from hundreds of possibilities. If one of the more popular strains is circulating in your neighbourhood, that's pretty good, but it doesn't protect your if you encounter one of the oddball strains. Second, it depends on the WHO correctly guessing, in February, which strains will be common in November. Their track record is pretty good, but it obviously isn't perfect. Third, even if they get their predictions right, this is a fast mutating virus. A strain can change over the course of six months, so even if it was correctly predicted, it can change to a new form which the vaccine doesn't work against.

With all that going against it, you can see why the success rate is often 60% or even less. Still, that's a lot better than nothing.

With SARS/Covid, our luck is running much better, in that this is a much slower-mutating virus. Now, 'slow' is a relative term. This is still a single-strand RNA virus, so it still mutates faster than a double-strand RNA virus, and much, much faster than anything based on DNA. So far all the mutations that have been found in Covid are relatively minor. While they do technically result in a new strain, they don't seem to change its function much. The prevailing thinking is that once a vaccine is developed, it might need some occasional tweaking for new strains, but it should be a lot less of a nightmare to keep up with than influenza is.

jusplay4fun wrote:I think our generally cautious re-opening of business and society is a good plan going forward.

Which plan? Every country, every state, every province, has a different plan. In some areas even different cities within the same province. So which one are you referring to?
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon May 18, 2020 7:00 pm

Good Stuff, Duk. Thanks for all the insightful comments; it gives me more to consider.

JP4F

Dukasaur wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:1) COVID-19 is basically a flu, RIGHT?

Well, not really. They are both RNA viruses with a somewhat similar morphology, but very different behaviour.

Flus (influenzas) are part of the family Orthomyxoviridea, while Covid is is part of Coronaviridae.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_classification#RNA_viruses

It probably doesn't help much to use comparisons from animal taxonomy, but covid and the flu are about as similar as dogs and muskrats. Which is to say, their outer shape clearly suggests that they have a common ancestor somewhere in the sands of time, but they're not close enough to call each other brother. This becomes significant when you talk about the vaccine...

jusplay4fun wrote:2) We have a vaccine, of sorts, for the flu. (It is not 100% effective. And further, mortality from COVID-19 is not 100%, no where near that.)

3) We are waiting for a vaccine (for COVID-19) to make things safe, WHEN we do not have an effective vaccine for the flu (influenza). Some years the flu vaccine is only about 60% effective.

Here's where the differences become significant. Influenza is a rapidly-mutating virus. I comes in literally HUNDREDS of sub-types. Each sub-type (strain) must be vaccinated for independently. It would be prohibitively expensive to vaccinate against all of them, so every February the WHO evaluates which strains of influenza are on the rise and are likely to be factors in the upcoming flu season. Then each country starts manufacturing vaccines for just those strains. The process takes most of the spring and summer, so the vaccines can be ready for the fall.

Usually between 3 and 6 strains of influenza are included in the package. This last year, your flu shot included the following strains:
https://www.uabmedicine.org/-/flu-strains-explained-and-how-the-vaccine-works
    An A/Michigan/45/2015 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus
    An A/Singapore/INFIMH-16-0019/2016 (H3N2)-like virus
    A B/Colorado/06/2017-like virus (B/Victoria/2/87 lineage)
    A B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata/16/88 lineage)


There are several reasons why this process isn't perfectly effective. First, obviously it's only a selection. In this case, four strains selected from hundreds of possibilities. If one of the more popular strains is circulating in your neighbourhood, that's pretty good, but it doesn't protect your if you encounter one of the oddball strains. Second, it depends on the WHO correctly guessing, in February, which strains will be common in November. Their track record is pretty good, but it obviously isn't perfect. Third, even if they get their predictions right, this is a fast mutating virus. A strain can change over the course of six months, so even if it was correctly predicted, it can change to a new form which the vaccine doesn't work against.

With all that going against it, you can see why the success rate is often 60% or even less. Still, that's a lot better than nothing.

With SARS/Covid, our luck is running much better, in that this is a much slower-mutating virus. Now, 'slow' is a relative term. This is still a single-strand RNA virus, so it still mutates faster than a double-strand RNA virus, and much, much faster than anything based on DNA. So far all the mutations that have been found in Covid are relatively minor. While they do technically result in a new strain, they don't seem to change its function much. The prevailing thinking is that once a vaccine is developed, it might need some occasional tweaking for new strains, but it should be a lot less of a nightmare to keep up with than influenza is.

jusplay4fun wrote:I think our generally cautious re-opening of business and society is a good plan going forward.

Which plan? Every country, every state, every province, has a different plan. In some areas even different cities within the same province. So which one are you referring to?
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby saxitoxin on Mon May 18, 2020 8:01 pm

Europeans Continue to Express Disgust in their Governments for Mortality Rates 3-4 Times Higher than America!

While the U.S. enjoys a mortality rate of 281 per million, many European countries have 2-5 times as many dead. This is due to European leaders putting ideology over lives and refusing to close their borders at the same time America did. Belgium, has nearly 800 dead per million people because it put ideology over lives!

Belgium’s Prime Minister gets a chilly reception from hospital staff

Prime minister Sophie Wilmès received a cold reception from staff at the Saint Peter hospital in Brussels yesterday on an official visit, when staff formed a reception committee and turned their backs on her ministerial car on arrival. Representatives later explained that front-line workers were disappointed in the government’s handling of the crisis, and its approach to health care in general, including issues such as budget cuts, low salaries and staff shortages. They are also unhappy about the government’s attempts to recruit unqualified staff to provide support to nursing personnel, rather than pay for trained professionals.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/ ... tal-staff/


Thank you, President Trump for putting lives over ideology and leading America to safety! Praise his name for he has been chosen to lead.

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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby jusplay4fun on Tue May 19, 2020 10:04 am

The many States in the USA have chosen different paths and plans to "re-open". I think there is a big advantage to this approach as we can evaluate what is working the best and monitor "progress" (based on # of cases, # of hospitalized, # of deaths). This assumes that we have an adequate # of reliable tests available.

So I am referring to the general approach and not one specific plan. I think I heard that two States in New England, Conn, and Mass., are the last two to open. Georgia was the first to open and I have not heard of a HUGE surge of cases there. Of course there will be the isolated cases, but not a big uptick in cases of COVID-19 there specifically.

jusplay4fun wrote:
I think our generally cautious re-opening of business and society is a good plan going forward.

And Duk asked:
Which plan? Every country, every state, every province, has a different plan. In some areas even different cities within the same province. So which one are you referring to?
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby jonesthecurl on Tue May 19, 2020 10:36 am

it will take about two weeks for the results to really show.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby mrswdk on Tue May 19, 2020 4:42 pm

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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby jimboston on Tue May 19, 2020 5:32 pm

mrswdk wrote:Image


The image and words don’t match.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby mrswdk on Wed May 20, 2020 6:22 am

Network of NSA/CIA Twitter bots exposed spreading malicious fake news and disinformation against China as America ramps up its 'blame game' efforts to divert domestic attention from its administrations' various failings in its handling of COVID-19:

https://observers.france24.com/en/20200 ... na-covid19
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby jimboston on Wed May 20, 2020 7:21 am

mrswdk wrote:Network of NSA/CIA Twitter bots exposed spreading malicious fake news and disinformation against China as America ramps up its 'blame game' efforts to divert domestic attention from its administrations' various failings in its handling of COVID-19:

https://observers.france24.com/en/20200 ... na-covid19


The article exposes the videos as fake... yes.

Where does it exposes these as NSA/CIA propaganda?

Might it not be just stoopid racist individuals? Given that these are in France I think it more likely to be racist French people... as Americans aren’t going to see these things en-masse anyway. Why would the NSA/CIA plant this? If the NSA/CIA was gonna plant fake videos don’t you think they’d do a better job and not just copy old videos from other sites that are easily debunked? The NSA/CIA have enough money they could just stage some new videos and make them untraceable.

Next!
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby mrswdk on Wed May 20, 2020 4:13 pm

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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby jimboston on Wed May 20, 2020 6:06 pm

... fired by private companies

... some fired for reasons not really related to Covid, but related to other issues.

You know mrswdk, in the US Private Companies run their own affairs. I know this isn’t the way things are organized in China, but it is how things work in the USA.

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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby betiko on Thu May 21, 2020 5:57 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Europeans Continue to Express Disgust in their Governments for Mortality Rates 3-4 Times Higher than America!

While the U.S. enjoys a mortality rate of 281 per million, many European countries have 2-5 times as many dead. This is due to European leaders putting ideology over lives and refusing to close their borders at the same time America did. Belgium, has nearly 800 dead per million people because it put ideology over lives!

Belgium’s Prime Minister gets a chilly reception from hospital staff

Prime minister Sophie Wilmès received a cold reception from staff at the Saint Peter hospital in Brussels yesterday on an official visit, when staff formed a reception committee and turned their backs on her ministerial car on arrival. Representatives later explained that front-line workers were disappointed in the government’s handling of the crisis, and its approach to health care in general, including issues such as budget cuts, low salaries and staff shortages. They are also unhappy about the government’s attempts to recruit unqualified staff to provide support to nursing personnel, rather than pay for trained professionals.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/ ... tal-staff/


Thank you, President Trump for putting lives over ideology and leading America to safety! Praise his name for he has been chosen to lead.

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If you're going to count countries such as san marino and a total population of 33k for accurate statistics... here is one for you.... the USA is number 39 in terms of virus testing per million... still number 1 in terms of reported cases and death with a still very healthy death and contamination rate each day. ... while here we are all deconfining and pro sports have started again, with new cases and new death comming in at too low rate for the virus to continue spreading.

The big difference between the US and the EU is that it striked first the EU with at least 2-3 weeks of data you could've used to anaylze... and the month of chinese data before that. Basically, trump was in the driver's seat but he had been in denial.. relying on his terrible instinct that made his buisnesses go bankrupt all the time since the 80s. The dude is the biggest serial loser... but he's just great at making believe that all his failures are great successes... the only thing he learns from them is how to improve his lying skills and how to effectively renew the hurd of scapegoats working for him that can be thrown under the bus.
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby saxitoxin on Sat May 30, 2020 5:58 am

betiko wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Europeans Continue to Express Disgust in their Governments for Mortality Rates 3-4 Times Higher than America!

While the U.S. enjoys a mortality rate of 281 per million, many European countries have 2-5 times as many dead. This is due to European leaders putting ideology over lives and refusing to close their borders at the same time America did. Belgium, has nearly 800 dead per million people because it put ideology over lives!

Belgium’s Prime Minister gets a chilly reception from hospital staff

Prime minister Sophie Wilmès received a cold reception from staff at the Saint Peter hospital in Brussels yesterday on an official visit, when staff formed a reception committee and turned their backs on her ministerial car on arrival. Representatives later explained that front-line workers were disappointed in the government’s handling of the crisis, and its approach to health care in general, including issues such as budget cuts, low salaries and staff shortages. They are also unhappy about the government’s attempts to recruit unqualified staff to provide support to nursing personnel, rather than pay for trained professionals.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/ ... tal-staff/


Thank you, President Trump for putting lives over ideology and leading America to safety! Praise his name for he has been chosen to lead.

Image



If you're going to count countries such as san marino


Brussels is in Belgium, not San Marino.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
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Re: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Postby saxitoxin on Sat May 30, 2020 6:03 am

Biden wants to do to America what the Democrats have done to New York ...

Coronavirus death toll is heavily concentrated in Democratic congressional districts

The coronavirus outbreak has taken the lives of nearly 100,000 Americans. Yet since the start of the outbreak, the death toll has been concentrated in a just a few places – mostly large metropolitan areas, especially the New York City area.

Of the more than 92,000 Americans who had died of COVID-19 as of May 20 (the date that the data in this analysis was collected), nearly 75,000 were in Democratic congressional districts.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... districts/


So sad. These people blindly punched the "D" line for years, electing a revolving door of incompetent amateurs and "fun uncles" to run their government. And now, because of the amateurs they put in charge, they won't be able to punch "D" one last time this November because the deceased are ineligible to vote. A powerful lesson about the responsibility of democracy.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
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