EIDL / PPP assistance, COVID impact on biz

[KoolBak]

I assume most of you have large opinions on these programs. I expect you'll feel free to tell us all about it

What I am wondering is if there is anyone here that is actually PERSONALLY impacted or self employed and applying. And all you haters and doomsayers, by personally impacted I don't mean "I'm paying for this shit with my taxes!". We get it.

As the smallest of small businesses (one is the lonliest number!), I assumed any assistance I requested would be completely ignored.

Backup here....my biz is 75% commercial, 25% retail. Since this shit, my commercial has been zero - expected. On a positive note, retail has increased 70+%....I sell to a lot of boomers (thank the gods) with outdoor hobbies, so I guess with staying home, they are more likely to buy some little item to help with their fishing hobby.

That being said, I am still struggling. Not rich. No trust fund. Guess you can tell me how poorly I planned

The PPP is not designed for me - didnt apply. Plus, it's just a massive clusterfuck. The EIDL is exactly designed for me. I (as well as a dozen local small businesses I know of in a local group I belong to) all applied April 1 - 2. There is NO way to check on progress, no phone numbers, no correspondence. And the rules keep changing as to expected funding, repayment, approvals, etc.

As of yesterday, one of the 13 local applicants got a small advance. No notification....just cash in bank. So strange....

[jimboston]

No direct experience... I have a friend who runs a small business, but it’s bigger than yours with a facility (mortgage) and employees.

I do hope whatever program you qualify works for you. It’s annoying to see some of these bigger businesses cash in (and they do it quicker be a they have the resources and know-how to apply.... and they get checks and use all the $$$ before smaller businesses even know they need it.

[mookiemcgee]

I applied for PPP the day applications could be submitted. Received approval for $75k yesterday, hasn't hit the bank account yet. Bank I went through is Umpqua.

[KoolBak]

Well that is excellent news. Be interested in discussing in more detail privately?

All my friends, acquaintances and old tax customers are biz's with max 2 employees, beyond owners, so are EIDL, not PPP. Be interested in some details and your plans and how you see it affecting you.

Banner is my bank and they offered immediately to do the PPP app. Small state chartered banks are much more effective for small biz.

Oh...on a positive note....apparently I was approved for the EIDL as I received the initial advance in my account from the feds just now! Very helpful. Now in theory I should be hearing from them......

[Dukasaur]

https://www.gq.com/story/trump-donor-hotels-ppp

Dallas billionaire Monty Bennett had a special hand in draining the first round of PPP money—he's the single biggest recipient of PPP funds, with $96.1 million going to his businesses. Bennett is the the head of what The Dallas Morning News calls a "hotel empire." He's the CEO of Ashford Inc., a company that serves as the "external advisor" to Ashford Hospitality Trust and Braemar Hotels & Resorts, two companies where Bennett also serves as chairman of the board.

As Popular Information reports, the three companies made $2.2 billion in revenue in 2019. But in March, when U.S. businesses started to feel the fallout from the coronavirus pandemic, the companies laid off 95 percent of their employees and hired lobbyists for the first time ever to make sure that they could get bailout money. That same month, Bennett personally donated $50,000 to Donald Trump's re-election committee.

Large, publicly traded companies like Bennett's and Ruth's Chris were able to get their hands on so much money because of how PPP defines a small business—it must have no more than 500 employees, unless the business in question is a hotel or restaurant chain. In that case, it must have no more than 500 employees per location.

[saxitoxin]

https://www.gq.com/story/trump-donor-hotels-ppp

Dallas billionaire Monty Bennett had a special hand in draining the first round of PPP money—he's the single biggest recipient of PPP funds, with $96.1 million going to his businesses. Bennett is the the head of what The Dallas Morning News calls a "hotel empire." He's the CEO of Ashford Inc., a company that serves as the "external advisor" to Ashford Hospitality Trust and Braemar Hotels & Resorts, two companies where Bennett also serves as chairman of the board.

As Popular Information reports, the three companies made $2.2 billion in revenue in 2019. But in March, when U.S. businesses started to feel the fallout from the coronavirus pandemic, the companies laid off 95 percent of their employees and hired lobbyists for the first time ever to make sure that they could get bailout money. That same month, Bennett personally donated $50,000 to Donald Trump's re-election committee.

Large, publicly traded companies like Bennett's and Ruth's Chris were able to get their hands on so much money because of how PPP defines a small business—it must have no more than 500 employees, unless the business in question is a hotel or restaurant chain. In that case, it must have no more than 500 employees per location.

[mrswdk]

I do hope whatever program you qualify works for you.

So you're not okay with having a government that tells people to stay at home to stop the spread of COVID-19 but you are okay with having a government that takes hundreds of millions of dollars of taxes off people then hands it out to businesses as COVID-19 welfare support?

[jimboston]

I do hope whatever program you qualify works for you.

So you're not okay with having a government that tells people to stay at home to stop the spread of COVID-19 but you are okay with having a government that takes hundreds of millions of dollars of taxes off people then hands it out to businesses as COVID-19 welfare support?

1) I never said that I’m “not ok” with government “stay-at-home” orders or forced shuttering of businesses.
I said that I believe it may be a violation of Constitutional Rights, and that, though I know from a scientific point-of-view it’s the right thing to do, I’m troubled and conflicted by it... and more especially by the long-term implications these actions may have.

2) In principal I’m opposed to forced Gov’t redistribution of wealth.

3) That said...if the government is forcing businesses to close, sometimes these actions necessitate other (distasteful) actions.

4) If the government program, exists and other people are using it, pragmatically it makes sense to use it also. So yeah... the government is funding the program... the money is going to get spent/used anyway... so yeah I want people I like to get some if they can. Participating in the program at least allows YOU (Me / My acquaintance) to recapture some of the wealth the government has stolen from YOU (Me / My acquaintance).

Please look up the words... nuance and pragmatism if you have further trouble understanding.)

[mrswdk]

I never said that I’m “not ok” with government “stay-at-home” orders or forced shuttering of businesses... I said that I’m troubled and conflicted by it

Welcome to today's episode of Incredibly Pointless Semantics, with your host: jimboston.

[KoolBak]

You should research what the f*ck you're talking about before you open your hateful mouth.

The program I am discussing is EIDL. There MAY be a small portion that is grant (welfare) at $1,000 per employee. The rest of the 90%+ percent of the advance is a LOAN that is REPAID to the feds, with interest. That is not fucking welfare. I will happily make payents on a loan that lets me stay in business. Thanks for another negative nancy post.

I do hope whatever program you qualify works for you.

So you're not okay with having a government that tells people to stay at home to stop the spread of COVID-19 but you are okay with having a government that takes hundreds of millions of dollars of taxes off people then hands it out to businesses as COVID-19 welfare support?

[KoolBak]

Duk (et al)....interesting article. However, the PPP vehicle MUST be used for paying employee salary that would have lost their job without PPP assistance. There must be more to this story, as it says he fired all employees, THEN got a loan to pay them. Either he's hired them back, returned the money or used it for something else, in which case it is a LOAN and must be repaid in 2 years.

This program is indeed "welfare" in that advances used as intended may be forgiven / given grant status. Funds NOT used as intended must be repaid.

I know of several local businesses that applied, fired employees, got the loan but did NOT hire employees back because theres no work, so simply gave the loan funds back.

Weird.

[mrswdk]

There MAY be a small portion that is grant (welfare) at $1,000 per employee... That is not fucking welfare.

Sorry, allow me to correct myself.

Welcome to today's episode of Incredibly Pointless Semantics, with your hosts: jimboston and KoolBak.

[mookiemcgee]

Duk (et al)....interesting article. However, the PPP vehicle MUST be used for paying employee salary that would have lost their job without PPP assistance. There must be more to this story, as it says he fired all employees, THEN got a loan to pay them. Either he's hired them back, returned the money or used it for something else, in which case it is a LOAN and must be repaid in 2 years.

This program is indeed "welfare" in that advances used as intended may be forgiven / given grant status. Funds NOT used as intended must be repaid.

I know of several local businesses that applied, fired employees, got the loan but did NOT hire employees back because theres no work, so simply gave the loan funds back.

Weird.

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies. There seems to be alot of hate against Ruth Chris, and other chains in this regards but if that chain doesn't use these funds to pay employees... then they have to pay the money back. I guess I don't really see the issue with the program, provided they stick with the existing terms of pay employees or pay the money back.

We've decided to start a new bank account to hold our PPP funds. We are only going to that account for payroll so it's going to be clean and easy to return what's leftover and hopefully not repay what went to employees.

[jimboston]

I never said that I’m “not ok” with government “stay-at-home” orders or forced shuttering of businesses... I said that I’m troubled and conflicted by it

Welcome to today's episode of Incredibly Pointless Semantics, with your host: jimboston.

I disagree on the level of pointlessness. I agree in the real world as it exists today some. of my points are meaningless... but when you’re debating politics and political theory the details can be incredibly important. I also disagree with most people about the basic pointlessness of politics in the real world... things like how I believe there’s very little “point” in voting (in the USA today, particularly on the Federal level).

Can we change the name to Somewhat Pointless but Also Very Important Semantics?

[saxitoxin]

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies.

Agreed. The House of Representatives enacted the legislation, the House of Representatives deserves the blame for any shortcomings.

[mookiemcgee]

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies.

Agreed. The House of Representatives enacted the legislation, the House of Representatives deserves the blame for any shortcomings.

The senate also passed it, and the president signed it. Everyone in the Gov't (black, white, brown and ORANGE) are to blame if there is blame, or to be thanked for getting out a bill (even if it's flawed).

[mookiemcgee]

I never said that I’m “not ok” with government “stay-at-home” orders or forced shuttering of businesses... I said that I’m troubled and conflicted by it

Welcome to today's episode of Incredibly Pointless Semantics, with your host: jimboston.

I disagree on the level of pointlessness. I agree in the real world as it exists today some. of my points are meaningless... but when you’re debating politics and political theory the details can be incredibly important. I also disagree with most people about the basic pointlessness of politics in the real world... things like how I believe there’s very little “point” in voting (in the USA today, particularly on the Federal level).

Can we change the name to Somewhat Pointless but Also Very Important Semantics?

Jim says: The details are important!
Jim when confronted on details: Does no one understand nuance!

[saxitoxin]

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies.

Agreed. The House of Representatives enacted the legislation, the House of Representatives deserves the blame for any shortcomings.

The senate also passed it, and the president signed it. Everyone in the Gov't (black, white, brown and ORANGE) are to blame if there is blame, or to be thanked for getting out a bill (even if it's flawed).

Well all spending bills have to originate in the House; for all intents and purposes, the Senate and the President only have right of refusal. So that's like Nancy Pelosi threatening to murder a bag full of puppies unless I rob a bank for her. Okay, I'll rob the bank but who is most at fault for the bank getting robbed, me or Nancy Pelosi?

[mookiemcgee]

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies.

Agreed. The House of Representatives enacted the legislation, the House of Representatives deserves the blame for any shortcomings.

The senate also passed it, and the president signed it. Everyone in the Gov't (black, white, brown and ORANGE) are to blame if there is blame, or to be thanked for getting out a bill (even if it's flawed).

Well all spending bills have to originate in the House; for all intents and purposes, the Senate and the President only have right of refusal. So that's like Nancy Pelosi threatening to murder a bag full of puppies unless I rob a bank for her. Okay, I'll rob the bank but who is most at fault for the bank getting robbed, me or Nancy Pelosi?

you... because you robbed a bank. Nancy certainly is at fault for other things in this poorly constructed hypothetical, but that bank was all you.

A counter hypothetical. I rob a bank, and I use the rational that the Gov't took too many taxes off my paycheck and I had to rob the bank to survive. Am I more at fault for robbing the bank or is it my scapegoat the gov't for taking taxes.

[saxitoxin]

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies.

Agreed. The House of Representatives enacted the legislation, the House of Representatives deserves the blame for any shortcomings.

The senate also passed it, and the president signed it. Everyone in the Gov't (black, white, brown and ORANGE) are to blame if there is blame, or to be thanked for getting out a bill (even if it's flawed).

Well all spending bills have to originate in the House; for all intents and purposes, the Senate and the President only have right of refusal. So that's like Nancy Pelosi threatening to murder a bag full of puppies unless I rob a bank for her. Okay, I'll rob the bank but who is most at fault for the bank getting robbed, me or Nancy Pelosi?

you... because you robbed a bank. Nancy certainly is at fault for other things in this poorly constructed hypothetical, but that bank was all you.

I also saved a bag full of puppies from Nancy Pelosi. So I'm a hero and Nancy Pelosi is a zero.

[mookiemcgee]

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies.

Agreed. The House of Representatives enacted the legislation, the House of Representatives deserves the blame for any shortcomings.

The senate also passed it, and the president signed it. Everyone in the Gov't (black, white, brown and ORANGE) are to blame if there is blame, or to be thanked for getting out a bill (even if it's flawed).

Well all spending bills have to originate in the House; for all intents and purposes, the Senate and the President only have right of refusal. So that's like Nancy Pelosi threatening to murder a bag full of puppies unless I rob a bank for her. Okay, I'll rob the bank but who is most at fault for the bank getting robbed, me or Nancy Pelosi?

you... because you robbed a bank. Nancy certainly is at fault for other things in this poorly constructed hypothetical, but that bank was all you.

I also saved a bag full of puppies from Nancy Pelosi. So I'm a hero and Nancy Pelosi is a zero.

Looking good Saxi!

[jonesthecurl]

I would also point out that blaming companies for taking advantage of gov't programs is kind of silly. A leader of a company has a fiduciary responsibility to try and make money no? If the gov't designs a plan that doesn't work as designed it's the gov't leaders that should be blamed, not the companies.

Agreed. The House of Representatives enacted the legislation, the House of Representatives deserves the blame for any shortcomings.

The senate also passed it, and the president signed it. Everyone in the Gov't (black, white, brown and ORANGE) are to blame if there is blame, or to be thanked for getting out a bill (even if it's flawed).

Well all spending bills have to originate in the House; for all intents and purposes, the Senate and the President only have right of refusal. So that's like Nancy Pelosi threatening to murder a bag full of puppies unless I rob a bank for her. Okay, I'll rob the bank but who is most at fault for the bank getting robbed, me or Nancy Pelosi?

The puppies.

[mrswdk]

I never said that I’m “not ok” with government “stay-at-home” orders or forced shuttering of businesses... I said that I’m troubled and conflicted by it

Welcome to today's episode of Incredibly Pointless Semantics, with your host: jimboston.

I disagree on the level of pointlessness. I agree in the real world as it exists today some. of my points are meaningless... but when you’re debating politics and political theory the details can be incredibly important. I also disagree with most people about the basic pointlessness of politics in the real world... things like how I believe there’s very little “point” in voting (in the USA today, particularly on the Federal level).

Can we change the name to Somewhat Pointless but Also Very Important Semantics?

We can keep the name as 'Pointless Semantics' and I will agree with you that casting a vote in any election that does not use PR is basically meaningless.

[jimboston]

I never said that I’m “not ok” with government “stay-at-home” orders or forced shuttering of businesses... I said that I’m troubled and conflicted by it

Welcome to today's episode of Incredibly Pointless Semantics, with your host: jimboston.

I disagree on the level of pointlessness. I agree in the real world as it exists today some. of my points are meaningless... but when you’re debating politics and political theory the details can be incredibly important. I also disagree with most people about the basic pointlessness of politics in the real world... things like how I believe there’s very little “point” in voting (in the USA today, particularly on the Federal level).

Can we change the name to Somewhat Pointless but Also Very Important Semantics?

Jim says: The details are important!
Jim when confronted on details: Does no one understand nuance!

That isn’t what happened... but go ahead and comment on my posts without reading them.