New drug scheduling; USA

[mrswdk]

The cajones on this dude, who’s prepared to start ringing up cousins he hasn’t seen in time and asking if he can occupy their living room with all his boxes and suitcases indefinitely.

Also, looks like Jim doesn’t realise that sleeping on someone else’s sofa is one form of homelessness.

[jimboston]

Inductive logic. Sweet.

Where am I using Inductive Logic in my reasoning?

[jimboston]

The cajones on this dude, who’s prepared to start ringing up cousins he hasn’t seen in time and asking if he can occupy their living room with all his boxes and suitcases indefinitely.

Also, looks like Jim doesn’t realise that sleeping on someone else’s sofa is one form of homelessness.

1) re: cousins he hasn’t seen in time

-> You don’t know what you’re talking about.

2) Please review my earlier post wherein I stated....

I’m not talking about a guy (or gal) sleeping in his/her car for a night or two.

I’m not talking about a woman fleeing with her kids from an abusive guy and living in a shelter for a few months.

I’m talking about sustained and/or repeated homelessness. A guy (or gal) on the streets, who even with the help of government support systems can’ t get himself (herself) into a long-term sustainable situation.

If you are going to ignore what I write then you automatically lose the argument.

[Dukasaur]

You guys should all read what I wrote before you try to tell me i’m insensitive or clueless or snobby.

Let's start over.

I know you're not a bad guy. But I think you've always landed on your feet and you just don't get how some people don't.

Since our common denominator is that we're on Conquer Club, let me use Conquer Club as a teaching tool. I'm sure you've noticed that when people win, they're always sure to discuss their winning strategy, but when people lose, the first thing they mention is their shitty dice. Real life is a lot like that. People who end up on top tend to give themselves credit for their brilliant thinking and their hard work, and they overlook all the luck and all the random factors that broke in their favour. People who end up on the bottom tend to have the opposite type of myopia. They talk about their rotton luck and the ways they've gotten screwed along the way and tend to downplay the things they've done wrong.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Both your decisions and things you have no control over have a part to play.

Everybody would like to be Bill Gates. And yes, if you want to be Bill Gates, it takes some smart ideas and some really hard work. I won't deny that Bill was a brilliant programmer, or that he was a dedicated entrepreneur who worked 20-hour days and slept on the floor of his office so he didn't have to waste time going home. But you can't discount how critical it was that his mother was friends with the president of IBM, who wrote Bill that sweetheart contract that launched him into the big time. Without that, all that brilliance and all that hard work might have been worth nothing. He might have cranked out a brilliant piece of software, got crushed by competitors with deeper pockets and more staying power, and ended up a total nobody.

I won't deny that people on the bottom have probably made some stupid decisions. But we've all made some stupid decisions. Some of us have bounced back and others haven't.

My rock-bottom year was end of '82, start of '83. I dropped out of university in the spring of '82. I was depressed. The girl I was desperately in love with decided that someone else's cock was tastier than mine. I had mononucleosis. It was 1982, a recession year. The unemployment rate was 14%. Couldn't get a job. I ran out of money; my hydro got disconnected. My neighbour ran extension cords to my house so I could keep running my fridge, but after a few weeks and no sign of my getting a job, he got tired of supporting me and cut the power. All my food went rotten. I was evicted on June 30th.

The rest of that year had some interesting stories, but I won't bore you with them. You can kind of imagine. A depressed university dropout recovering from mono, looking for a job in a year with a 14% unemployment rate. Needless to say, I got sucked into a lot of commission-only jobs that don't pay much. My car got repossessed. I was evicted from two more places by the end of the year, and then one more in January of '83. Needless to say, I couldn't afford a moving van, so in the first two moves my collection of worldly goods shrank down to what I could jam into my car. In the third move I didn't have a car any more, so my goods shrank down to what I could carry. In the fourth move, I didn't even bother carrying anything; just walked out into the snow bare-handed.

I walked downtown. I'd been eating crap for months; I was malnourished and cold and tired. It got dark but there were bright lights coming from the movie theatre. They were showing First Blood, and I'd seen the promos for it. I desperately wanted to see it, but of course I had no money for a ticket, so I just sat down in a snowbank and looked at a promo poster. Closest I could get to watching the movie. And that's where I fell asleep, sitting in a snowbank, dreaming about watching First Blood, just too tired to walk anywhere else and really having no place to go.

It was that close. By morning I could have been a statistic, except that in the middle of the night Smokey, a kid I'd known in high school, came staggering home from a party somewhere. "Duke, what the f*ck are you doing? You can't sleep in a snowbank!" He was at the University of Waterloo, and when he saw me he assumed I was just like him, a drunken university student going home from a party somewhere. He dragged me out of the snowbank, took me to his house, fed me some Kraft dinner.

The next day we had a meeting with his roommates. He tried to sell the idea that I'd move in with them, but the vote was against it. For many reasons. Their tenancy agreement specified four occupants, not five. They were all honours students and a depressed dropout didn't seem like a good fit. But one of them suggested that I should go to the Salvation Army men's hostel. Which I did, and started on the road to a recovery of sorts. There have been some bad times here and there, but I've never gotten that far down again.

You may say that's an obvious idea; that I should have just gone to the Sally Anne in the first place. Which I suppose is true, but the idea never entered my head. One of the things about depression is that it narrows your world. At a time when you need to be brainstorming and looking for new options, the only things that come into your mind are the old options that have already failed. I really had tried hard to get a job, but the only places that were hiring didn't pay. I knew I was tired of sponging off my friends. I just didn't know where to go and I didn't have the energy to go there.

I wasn't consciously thinking about suicide when I sat down in a snowbank. I really though I'd just rest for a bit and then make a new plan. But if Smokey hadn't damn-near tripped over me on his way home that night, there would have been no more plans for me.

[2dimes]

Kraft Dinner? Empty carbs! Let's put that one under "Yellow" in the drug scheduling, ok?

[jimboston]

You guys should all read what I wrote before you try to tell me i’m insensitive or clueless or snobby.

Let's start over.

I know you're not a bad guy. But I think you've always landed on your feet and you just don't get how some people don't.

Since our common denominator is that we're on Conquer Club, let me use Conquer Club as a teaching tool. I'm sure you've noticed that when people win, they're always sure to discuss their winning strategy, but when people lose, the first thing they mention is their shitty dice. Real life is a lot like that. People who end up on top tend to give themselves credit for their brilliant thinking and their hard work, and they overlook all the luck and all the random factors that broke in their favour. People who end up on the bottom tend to have the opposite type of myopia. They talk about their rotton luck and the ways they've gotten screwed along the way and tend to downplay the things they've done wrong.

Conquer Club is a Zero-Sum game... there is a winner and a loser.

Life is not. There are multiple winners.

Bad dice in life isn’t (IMHO) enough to make you homeless. It definitely affects your chances and your ultimate outcome... but won’t make you ‘fail’.

Everybody would like to be Bill Gates. And yes, if you want to be Bill Gates, it takes some smart ideas and some really hard work. I won't deny that Bill was a brilliant programmer, or that he was a dedicated entrepreneur who worked 20-hour days and slept on the floor of his office so he didn't have to waste time going home. But you can't discount how critical it was that his mother was friends with the president of IBM, who wrote Bill that sweetheart contract that launched him into the big time. Without that, all that brilliance and all that hard work might have been worth nothing. He might have cranked out a brilliant piece of software, got crushed by competitors with deeper pockets and more staying power, and ended up a total nobody.

Bill Gates is a good example... I’m aware of his story. He comes from a well-to-do family and that family had connections.
No doubt that was an instrumental factor in making Microsoft what it is.

That said, I sincerely doubt he’d have ‘ended up a nobody’ without the IBM connection.

He still (likely) would’ve been smart, and a hard worker... and therefore would have been successful at whatever he did.

He might not have become one of the richest men on Earth... but he’d have done well still.

I won't deny that people on the bottom have probably made some stupid decisions. But we've all made some stupid decisions. Some of us have bounced back and others haven't.

Yep... and that’s my ENTIRE PREMISE. Anyone can fall. I said “sustained homelessness”. The ability to bounce back requires you stop making bad decisions and start making good ones.

My rock-bottom year was end of '82, start of '83. I dropped out of university in the spring of '82. I was depressed. The girl I was desperately in love with decided that someone else's cock was tastier than mine. I had mononucleosis. It was 1982, a recession year. The unemployment rate was 14%. Couldn't get a job. I ran out of money; my hydro got disconnected. My neighbour ran extension cords to my house so I could keep running my fridge, but after a few weeks and no sign of my getting a job, he got tired of supporting me and cut the power. All my food went rotten. I was evicted on June 30th.

The rest of that year had some interesting stories, but I won't bore you with them. You can kind of imagine. A depressed university dropout recovering from mono, looking for a job in a year with a 14% unemployment rate. Needless to say, I got sucked into a lot of commission-only jobs that don't pay much. My car got repossessed. I was evicted from two more places by the end of the year, and then one more in January of '83. Needless to say, I couldn't afford a moving van, so in the first two moves my collection of worldly goods shrank down to what I could jam into my car. In the third move I didn't have a car any more, so my goods shrank down to what I could carry. In the fourth move, I didn't even bother carrying anything; just walked out into the snow bare-handed.

I walked downtown. I'd been eating crap for months; I was malnourished and cold and tired. It got dark but there were bright lights coming from the movie theatre. They were showing First Blood, and I'd seen the promos for it. I desperately wanted to see it, but of course I had no money for a ticket, so I just sat down in a snowbank and looked at a promo poster. Closest I could get to watching the movie. And that's where I fell asleep, sitting in a snowbank, dreaming about watching First Blood, just too tired to walk anywhere else and really having no place to go.

It was that close. By morning I could have been a statistic, except that in the middle of the night Smokey, a kid I'd known in high school, came staggering home from a party somewhere. "Duke, what the f*ck are you doing? You can't sleep in a snowbank!" He was at the University of Waterloo, and when he saw me he assumed I was just like him, a drunken university student going home from a party somewhere. He dragged me out of the snowbank, took me to his house, fed me some Kraft dinner.

The next day we had a meeting with his roommates. He tried to sell the idea that I'd move in with them, but the vote was against it. For many reasons. Their tenancy agreement specified four occupants, not five. They were all honours students and a depressed dropout didn't seem like a good fit. But one of them suggested that I should go to the Salvation Army men's hostel. Which I did, and started on the road to a recovery of sorts. There have been some bad times here and there, but I've never gotten that far down again.

You may say that's an obvious idea; that I should have just gone to the Sally Anne in the first place. Which I suppose is true, but the idea never entered my head. One of the things about depression is that it narrows your world. At a time when you need to be brainstorming and looking for new options, the only things that come into your mind are the old options that have already failed. I really had tried hard to get a job, but the only places that were hiring didn't pay. I knew I was tired of sponging off my friends. I just didn't know where to go and I didn't have the energy to go there.

I wasn't consciously thinking about suicide when I sat down in a snowbank. I really though I'd just rest for a bit and then make a new plan. But if Smokey hadn't damn-near tripped over me on his way home that night, there would have been no more plans for me.

Sounds like you used the government support system and started making good decisions and bounced back.

You got help (by luck albeit) from a friend you had developed some connection with.

You got help from the government.

I don’t know if there were other bad decisions leading up to the drop-out... I mean getting to a place where you’re dropping out requires some bad decisions no? You didn’t mention parents or other family... I know not everyone is blessed with supporting parents, but assuming you had some not using that support network is another bad decision.

I think you just proved my point.

[Dukasaur]

I don’t know if there were other bad decisions leading up to the drop-out... I mean getting to a place where you’re dropping out requires some bad decisions no? You didn’t mention parents or other family... I know not everyone is blessed with supporting parents, but assuming you had some not using that support network is another bad decision.

Maybe objectively it was, but I didn't see it that way. My parents were a big part of the reason I ended up where I did. From earliest childhood they never missed an opportunity to remind me that I was a worthless piece of shit who would never amount to anything. That kind of day-in day-out ego crushing tends to pay off and become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think I would have rather accepted death than to slink back home and admit that yes, they were right all along, I really was a worthless piece of shit and hadn't amounted to anything.

And before you move on to your next helpful suggestion, no, all the relatives who liked me were still behind the Iron Curtain at that point. My parents were my only relatives on this continent.

I think you just proved my point.

Yeah, I get your point.

You've worked hard and you've earned every square inch of your nice hardwood floor, and nobody is going to tell you otherwise.

Everybody who lives in pain and despair made the decisions that brought them there, and they deserve everything they got coming.

I don't know why I thought your were more open-minded than the typical right-winger. Pure wishful thinking, I guess.

[mookiemcgee]

On not every has a large network of support... but failure to develop and cultivate a large support network is a BAD DECISION.

Those stupid idiots who don't just go out and make 50 friends who'd let them sleep on their sofa.

I’m older (as has been noted, technically not a Boomer... though some have called me that).

OK BOOMER

[mrswdk]

Sounds like you used the government support system and started making good decisions and bounced back.

Of course if it was up to you that government support system wouldn't have existed in the first place.

[jimboston]

My parents were a big part of the reason I ended up where I did. From earliest childhood they never missed an opportunity to remind me that I was a worthless piece of shit who would never amount to anything. That kind of day-in day-out ego crushing tends to pay off and become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That sucks and I’m not claiming that everyone has a nice easy smooth road. I recognize that I was blessed by a loving family who cared for me.
(Though as a teenager I may have disagreed.)

Maybe objectively it was, but I didn't see it that way. I think I would have rather accepted death than to slink back home and admit that yes, they were right all along, I really was a worthless piece of shit and hadn't amounted to anything.

EGO > DEATH

That’s a decision.

If you truly feel/felt that way, that sucks, but it’s still a decision.

I think you just proved my point.

Yeah, I get your point.

You've worked hard and you've earned every square inch of your nice hardwood floor, and nobody is going to tell you otherwise.

Nope... that’s not my point.

Everybody who lives in pain and despair made the decisions that brought them there, and they deserve everything they got coming.

Nope... that’s not my point either.

The point is... that there are A LOT of support systems/mechanisms in this country. (Another qualifier... I’m mostly talking about the USA. My comments may apply to other Western countries too, but I recognize that not all countries have the support mechanisms that we have here.)

Given that... it takes a series of bad decisions over a lifetime to become truly homeless.

Again... not homeless where you lose you apartment for a month... where you have a fire or tornado, and you have to make do for a few weeks in a hotel till you get something else. As I stated before... long term and sustained homelessness. Then... even if you fall that far down... there are systems that can help you get back up. These require effort, sacrifice, hard work, and smart decisions.

You’re story is actually a perfect example that proves my point. You dropped out of school, you weren’t in a great situation to begin with, your ego got in the way of asking for help. Eventually when you did ask for help, it was available to you.

I don't know why I thought your were more open-minded than the typical right-winger. Pure wishful thinking, I guess.

I think labeling me “Right Wing” is funny.

Have you read other stuff I’ve written?

I’m certainly not your average Trump Loving Neo-Con Anti-Abortion Racist “Patriot”.

I dislike Trump.
I don’t recognize any organized religion.
I don’t like the American Empire (At least not as enforced by our military.)
If I’m anything on abortion it’s pro-choice... only because I refuse to impose my “religion” on others.
I’m generally pro-American... but mostly in defensive mode, and primarily defensive of the ideal versus the real America.
I recognize I have biases, but I don’t believe I’m racist.

Yup... a true Right Winger.

What I am is a person who disliked whiners and crybabies.
I’m a person who wants to help people who are down.. but refuses to provide that help repeatedly to people who abuse the system.
If that makes me a “Right Winger” I guess....

[jimboston]

Sounds like you used the government support system and started making good decisions and bounced back.

Of course if it was up to you that government support system wouldn't have existed in the first place.

Really?

Where did I ever say that?

I think there’s a lot of abuse in the system. I’ve seen it firsthand... though obviously my experience is limited and so I’m jaded and recognize that I may be overstating the abuse. I never said we shouldn’t have any support system.

Please find where I’ve said this.... either that or apologize for putting words in my mouth.

[jimboston]

On not every has a large network of support... but failure to develop and cultivate a large support network is a BAD DECISION.

Those stupid idiots who don't just go out and make 50 friends who'd let them sleep on their sofa.

I’m older (as has been noted, technically not a Boomer... though some have called me that).

OK BOOMER

Dude you were born in the 80’s.
You’re as much a Boomer as me.

[mrswdk]

Sounds like you used the government support system and started making good decisions and bounced back.

Of course if it was up to you that government support system wouldn't have existed in the first place.

Really?

Where did I ever say that?

I think there’s a lot of abuse in the system. I’ve seen it firsthand... though obviously my experience is limited and so I’m jaded and recognize that I may be overstating the abuse. I never said we shouldn’t have any support system.

Please find where I’ve said this.... either that or apologize for putting words in my mouth.

So now Mr Anarchist, who is so mistrustful of 'government' that he's not even okay with having a government step in to curfew people during the COVID-19 pandemic or provide fire fighters to stop people's houses burning down, supports the existence of a government-run support infrastructure for rough sleepers.

I like the little non-specific bit of hearsay about abuse of the system that you couldn't help throwing in. That's probably why they need the government involved in their lives, right? Too darn untrustworthy to be left to their own devices.

[jimboston]

Sounds like you used the government support system and started making good decisions and bounced back.

Of course if it was up to you that government support system wouldn't have existed in the first place.

Really?

Where did I ever say that?

I think there’s a lot of abuse in the system. I’ve seen it firsthand... though obviously my experience is limited and so I’m jaded and recognize that I may be overstating the abuse. I never said we shouldn’t have any support system.

Please find where I’ve said this.... either that or apologize for putting words in my mouth.

So now Mr Anarchist, who is so mistrustful of 'government' that he's not even okay with having a government step in to curfew people during the COVID-19 pandemic or provide fire fighters to stop people's houses burning down, supports the existence of a government-run support infrastructure for rough sleepers.

I like the little non-specific bit of hearsay about abuse of the system that you couldn't help throwing in. That's probably why they need the government involved in their lives, right? Too darn untrustworthy to be left to their own devices.

I didn’t claim to be an Anarchist... I claimed to be an early-stage-Anarchist.

I don’t trust our government or any government.
That doesn’t mean I don’t recognize some things are necessary to have a functioning society.

You’re description of recent government actions as akin to having “to curfew a few people” is Saxi-Like in its’ gross understatement.
The government actions are significantly more infringing than that.

As I said in other threads.... I’m torn on the recent Covid-19 related actions. I recognize scientifically these actions are likely the right actions to take... but at the same time I (correctly) point out that many of these actions are likely in violation of the US Constitution. Furthermore, my expressed fear is not so much the actions themselves as much as the precedents these actions set.

Your term “rough sleepers” is not common in the US... so I had to look it up. I do support some level of social support. I don’t think I support gov’t funded support on moral grounds... but I recognize the practicality of it and support it on those grounds.

I don’t like the “welfare state” and I don’t support systems that create a perpetual state of lower-class that lives in a support situation from generation-to-generation-to-generation. Unfortunately this exists in the US and there seems to be no incentive to end it. The last little bit is not “unspecific here say”. I have told stories here about public sector organizations, including the Boston Housing Authority (BHA), here in these forums in the past... and these FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS of abuse have been dismissed before (probably by you). I worked for years (two different companies) that provided Technology and Technology Related services to the Public Sector (State and City level Agencies). I have seen corruption, abuse of power, waste, careless management, etc. Most directly related to this topic is my experience(s) with the BHA... which runs the subsidized housing (public housing), and also rental voucher programs, in the City of Boston. I could type for hours providing examples of abuse and waste... you won’t believe me anyway so why bother?

[Dukasaur]

Nope... that’s not my point either.

The point is... that there are A LOT of support systems/mechanisms in this country. (Another qualifier... I’m mostly talking about the USA. My comments may apply to other Western countries too, but I recognize that not all countries have the support mechanisms that we have here.)

Okay, agreed so far. There are a ton of support mechanisms out there, at least in our world, and if you have the presence of mind to take advantage of them they can help you a lot.

Given that... it takes a series of bad decisions over a lifetime to become truly homeless.

Which is your initial point from way back, which just shows that you haven't budged an inch in your position.

Bad decisions may be involved, but they're rarely the deciding factor.

Nor does it take a lifetime. In the example I gave you of the guy with the TV shop, he literally lost his business, his wife, his life savings, and his home, in a single afternoon.

If you beat the shit out of someone and leave them on a sinking ship, is it their fault they didn't have the presence of mind to look for the lifeboats?

Sometimes when life lays a beating on you, you just don't have the presence of mind to analyze the situation correctly.

Here's the part at the end of my story that you've ignored.

But one of them suggested that I should go to the Salvation Army men's hostel. Which I did, and started on the road to a recovery of sorts. There have been some bad times here and there, but I've never gotten that far down again.

You may say that's an obvious idea; that I should have just gone to the Sally Anne in the first place. Which I suppose is true, but the idea never entered my head. One of the things about depression is that it narrows your world. At a time when you need to be brainstorming and looking for new options, the only things that come into your mind are the old options that have already failed. I really had tried hard to get a job, but the only places that were hiring didn't pay. I knew I was tired of sponging off my friends. I just didn't know where to go and I didn't have the energy to go there.

I wasn't consciously thinking about suicide when I sat down in a snowbank. I really though I'd just rest for a bit and then make a new plan.

You've taken that and tied it in with different part of the story and decided that it was ego preventing me from asking for help. But I very explicitly covered that in the original story. I wasn't too proud to ask for help. The moment it was suggested to me I went and did it. The idea hadn't occurred to me. I hadn't thought about the idea and rejected it. It just hadn't occurred to me. When you get kicked in the stones enough times, you can't think clearly. And if it happens repeatedly enough times, you may get to a point where you're just too fucking tired to even try.

[jimboston]

You were too proud to ask for help from your parents.

The guy with the TV shop... I’m guessing that’s the guy whose business partner and wife cheated on him?

How did he lose his business and his house?
If he sued for divorce he’d get at least half... more than half in most cases due to cause.
Obviously they could lie about it... but even without cause he still owns half the business... they gotta buy him out.

There are more details to the story I’m sure.

You’re missing my point.. about being homeless for a sustained period.

I originally said “homeless”... but I wasn’t thinking about someone who’s out of a home for a month or three... I was talking about the person who lives on the street and can’t get out of it... and I defined that better in my 2nd or 3rd post.

[2dimes]

Kraft Dinner? Empty carbs! Let's put that one under "Yellow" in the drug scheduling, ok?

Nothing huh?

[Dukasaur]

Kraft Dinner? Empty carbs! Let's put that one under "Yellow" in the drug scheduling, ok?

Nothing huh?

It was a cute line. What would be the point of trying to get more mileage out of it?

Sometimes it's good to just let a one-liner be a one-liner.



But if you want me to write a dissertation I suppose I can.

In 1982 I was not yet aware that carbs are the enemy. I continued eating stuff like Kraft dinner until at least 1998, possibly 1999. Maybe even into the early 2000s.

Actually, in September of 1982, I bought a 50 lb bag of potatoes, and I ate nothing but mashed potatoes for the entire month. How's that for empty carbs? It costs money to eat well.

But yeah, Kraft dinner should come with a warning label.

[Dukasaur]

You were too proud to ask for help from your parents.

That's your interpretation. I think my parents and the various types of abuse I suffered were a big part of how I ended up as fucked up as I am/was. I think crawling back to them would have just perpetuated that and made it worse. It's not like they would have helped me on my terms. I would have been expected to move back home and be my father's little slave again. But it's a side issue and I don't need your permission to feel the way I feel. It's not central to the issue. If you can't get past thinking that crawling back to my parents should have been my go-to move, then just think about someone else who went through the same things but didn't have parents. Someone like who's parents died or are in jail or whatever. What's your glib answer then?

The guy with the TV shop... I’m guessing that’s the guy whose business partner and wife cheated on him?

How did he lose his business and his house?
If he sued for divorce he’d get at least half... more than half in most cases due to cause.
Obviously they could lie about it... but even without cause he still owns half the business... they gotta buy him out.

There are more details to the story I’m sure.

I'm sure there are, but I don't know every detail. As I recall, he caught them fucking and predictably enough flipped out and threatened to kill them, so they got a peace bond against him and he had to stay 100 metres away. Which included both the business and the home, which were both the same location. So he couldn't go home and had to ask someone to go to his house and fetch his clothes for him.

There wasn't a house; they lived in a loft over top of the store. He'd spent his life savings opening up the store. Most likely the value was all in inventory and furnishings. The latter are essentially worthless. On paper you depreciate store furnishings over a 10-year period, but in reality they lose 80% of their value on day 1. The inventory was worth more, but also depreciates fast. If I recall correctly, the new managers lowered prices and sold as much as they could as fast as they could, and after a few months they packed up what was left into a semi-trailer and drove clear across the country to re-open in Vancouver.

He probably could have gotten some money out of them, if he had the up-front to hire a good lawyer and a forensic accountant and then a private dick to chase them to Vancouver. But he didn't have any of that. I think he did get a lawyer and made a half-hearted effort to recover something, but he was a broken man.

This is what you don't get. Most of the time, when you get knocked down, you get back up. But sometimes the shots come too fast or too often, and you just can't do it any more.

You’re missing my point.. about being homeless for a sustained period.

YOU'RE missing the point. You take umbrage when I call you a right-winger, but you're flat-out insisting on the standard conservative line that the poor brought it on themselves.

You don't choose for your wife to get bored with you and start fucking somebody else.

You don't choose for your business partner to get greedy and rip you off.

You don't choose to have parents who are abusive assholes and send you out into the world an emotional basketcase.

You don't choose to get mononucleosis.

You don't choose to be in the path of a tornado, or forest fire, or a foreign invasion.

You don't choose to suffer from bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia, or even garden-variety depression.

You don't choose to have an industrial injury that leaves you with permanent chronic pain and ends up with you eating percodan like candy until you become a junkie, which is probably the #1 route by which people become junkies.

Yes, your choices do influence a lot. But some things really do happen to you that you have no control over. And yeah, most of us, most of the time, suffer one or more of these things and get back up. But some people don't. Maybe too many things happened over a long period of time. Or maybe it was a bunch of things all at once. Sometimes, you just don't have it in you to get back up. Sometimes your friends will come by and pull you out of the snowbank. Sometimes they won't.

You've had a good life and you're whole and hale. Good. Not everybody is.

[HitRed]

Thread of the year. Honest and raw.

[mrswdk]

I like how in this thread jim is teaching Duk about his own life. That has got to be the definition of confirmation bias.

[2dimes]

I was not trying harm you or your feelings. I was going for a light hearted joke.

I remember 40 years ago when most people were thin eating carbs like bread, pasta or potatoes everyday. Look at pictures the fat guy was kind of famous. Further back he was possibly considered healthy because he was not malnourished.

Go to Italy, pasta it's self is not "the enemy." Sheer volume of food is the real culprit.

You must remember when the tiny hamburger with a small chips was a full adult meal and it was a special treat. In fact adding the side was called "hamburger deluxe", instead of an expectation.

Now people are having double quarter pounders with cheese plus large fries several times a week. The only reason there was a menu change at the arches away from Super Size was Morgan Spulock's movie.

8 or 10 ounce steak? We want the 16. I read something claiming an adult portion of meat should be 6 ounces, now that's a puny steak sandwich.

A scoop of mashed potatoes is not bad for you, these days it would cause bitching or a bad Yelp. "That place sucked. I'm hungry." "The portions are way too small."

When I was a child a box of Kraft Dinner was likely a side split amongst a family of four with one or two pieces of chicken. Now it's the meal and my kids often don't want to share one box. Though we usually get Annie's Shells and Cheese.

I'm guilty, I love pizza, I'm trying to switch from consuming most of a 12-14 inch pie every time, to stopping after two slices. I can usually do it but it still seems odd. Instead of eating the whole thing seeming wrong like it should.

One pizza a month is probably ok, trouble comes from having one per meal. Television commercials are a nemesis. We were watching that big brother show and the sponsor was Wendy's. I was like Pavlov's dog.

[jimboston]

I like how in this thread jim is teaching Duk about his own life. That has got to be the definition of confirmation bias.

I like how in this thread your contributing nothing but just tossing dumb ass bombs and hoping they explode.

They’re not.

[mrswdk]

@2dimes The problem is if you eat more than you burn off. If you do a lot of strenuous exercise then you can afford/need to eat more. Professional long distance runners eating something like 5,000 calories per day while they're training and they're obviously all still pretty slim. If all you're doing is moving from chair to chair then you shouldn't be eating very much and the recommended 2,500 calories per day is probably too much for you.

I remember ordering a starter in New York, and what came out was a sandwich plus fries and salad that was so big I could barely get more than half way through it. And on top of it being a ridiculous-sized plate of a food, it also only cost like $4 or something.