What have we missed during Corona?

[Falkomagno]

I was thinking, while 100% of anything I can read or talk about is Corona, what are the main stuff that is happening besides this global pandemic that is changing everybody's lives?

Are your governments trying to sneak in some outrageous new laws?

Are there weird trade deals trying to get passed when nobody is looking?

What are the good news happening at these weird times?

[mrswdk]

We missed the fact that there is no such thing as COVID-19, it is just a cover for the fact that 5G is making us all ill:

[jimboston]

I don’t think Covid is a conspiracy or it was man made or anything like that.

That said, it’s a fact that (at least in the USA) the Government is stepping all over our rights and ignoring the Constitution.

Maybe they are doing these things under the genuine belief that it will help slow the spread and save lives.
Maybe these actions really will slow the spread and save lives.

Regardless, the US (and most Governments) have a bad track record when it comes to giving back rights once it takes them away.

This scares me maybe more than the virus itself.

[mrswdk]

That said, it’s a fact that (at least in the USA) the Government is stepping all over our rights and ignoring the Constitution.

How's that?

[Falkomagno]

I don’t think Covid is a conspiracy or it was man made or anything like that.

That said, it’s a fact that (at least in the USA) the Government is stepping all over our rights and ignoring the Constitution.

Maybe they are doing these things under the genuine belief that it will help slow the spread and save lives.
Maybe these actions really will slow the spread and save lives.

Regardless, the US (and most Governments) have a bad track record when it comes to giving back rights once it takes them away.

This scares me maybe more than the virus itself.

What do you mean by this? Do you think the US government (or any other) will apply some kind of authoritarian measurements, justified under the emergency policy due to the coronavirus?

[Dukasaur]

I was thinking, while 100% of anything I can read or talk about is Corona, what are the main stuff that is happening besides this global pandemic that is changing everybody's lives?

Are your governments trying to sneak in some outrageous new laws?

Are there weird trade deals trying to get passed when nobody is looking?

What are the good news happening at these weird times?

A few things flying under the radar.

1. The oil price war is interesting. Been too busy to talk about it. I think it's more political than economic, but like I said, been too busy to talk about it. There's some kind of power play going on. We all know that MBS has pretty much taken over the Saudi royal family, rising from #6 son to #1 son in only a few short years, and leaving a trail of bodies along the way. Now, we get a renewed crackdown in Saudi Arabia, only a few days before a wild price war breaks out with Russia. Is this a signal that Russia does not intend to let MBS continue his march to the top? And why now?

2. The recession. It was long overdue. The epidemic is getting the blame, but really it was only a matter of time until the dam burst. The bankers, having gotten away with it in 2008, have been at it again. Bad corporate debt is (was) as high in 2019 as bad mortgages were in 2008. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/dozen-years-after-2008-recession-different-kind-debt-threatens-world-n1151801

United States debt levels are at record levels and markets for riskier debt — such as high-yield corporate bonds — have been flashing warning signs. Buyers of riskier debt are also withdrawing from the markets, analysts report. In mid-February, for example, an index of high-yield bonds was up almost 1.2 percent for the month, according to LevFin Insights, an analysis firm. By month end, the index was down 1.5 percent.

We've seen this movie before. In 2008, trillions of dollars in mortgage debt amassed during a huge run-up in residential real estate had to be unwound, contributing to a worldwide recession that was deep and destructive.

This time a different type of debt looms — business borrowings. United States nonfinancial corporate debt outstanding stood at $10.1 trillion in the third quarter of 2019, up from $7.1 trillion in 2013, according to the Federal Reserve Board.

There's a new book out about Trump cheating at golf. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/rick-reilly-trump-is-the-worst-cheat-ever-on-the-golf-course-1.4110920

Reilly, the former Sports Illustrated columnist, has written a book called Commander in Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump. It’s rattling good fun which also depicts the startling duplicity of the president as a golfer. “You’re mostly laughing,” Reilly says, “but at times you’re crying – how did this happen? As a golfer he really offends me. Cheating? Hate that. Driving carts on greens? Hate that. Wearing old dockers two sizes too small for him? Give me a break. Kicking your ball so often that the caddies call you Pelé? I so hate that. Most of all I hate how stupid he’s making my country look. I hate what he’s doing to my planet. I hate what he’s doing to kids at the border. I don’t mind Republicans. I just can’t stand this guy. I love golf and he has set the game back 30 years. Just when it was becoming cool with Rory McIlroy and Ricky Fowler we get this fat bozo cheating his ass off.”

[jimboston]

The government already has applied authoritarian measures that restrict our freedoms and are Constitutionally Illegal.

The government has cancelled large events, both private and public. We have a Constitutional Right to get together, but the government says “No”. A quick example, the St. Patrick’s Day Parade in Boston was cancelled. The Parade application had been approved and has been going on for years without significant issues. The Government cancels it to “slow the spread” under what authority? Because there’s a law that says the Governor can do it “in an emergency”... but does the Constitution actually give the government this right? No.

We have a Constitution that says we have a Right to worship without interference... but the government has banned masses. Under what authority does the secular government of the USA have the Constitutional Power to demand that a religion cancel masses? It doesn’t.

The government has closed all kinds of private businesses... presumably using these same Emergency Powers; in some cases maybe using Health Ordinances. Yet the Constitution is supposed to protect our right to gather, and a private businesses right to earn a living. The government ignores these rights.

Playgrounds, basketball courts, tennis courts... these are mostly closed around here. In cases where it’s, possible the local town or city government has locked gates and/or put up signs closing these public spaces. So now I can’t use public play areas that were paid for with my tax dollars? Isn’t this some sort of illegal seizure? (I’m particularly annoyed by the tennis courts... my kids play tennis and many of the local courts are locked. If they live together and hit with each other or my wife how can that possible spread the disease to others??? Even if I let my daughter hit with her friend, they’re 78Ft apart and barely touch the ball. It’s silly!)

In some states Police and/or National Guard are pulling over drivers from other states (cars with plates from other states). They are collecting information about where these people are traveling and staying. Is it legal for the government to demand to know where I’m going? I don’t believe you legally need to provide this information to the government... but try telling that to the State Trooper who’s got you pulled over, see what happens.

These travelers, and in some cases just regular residents, are being told to ”self quarantine” or “stay home”. Can the government legally tell me to stay home? There are some laws that give the Federal Government this power but they are very limited in scope and supposed to be used for specific people who have been identified as carriers of specific viruses.

Most of these powers are based on ”Emergency” laws that have been written by lawmakers... but these laws are contrary to the Rights we hold dear in the Constitution.

What’s next? Do they start using our phones to track us like the Chinese are doing? Tracking people to verify if they are complying with “Stay at Home” or other “Quarantine” type orders.

... again... please don’t mistake me... I believe most lawmakers and government leaders are implementing these policies because they think it will save lives. I also believe that in fact institution of these policies will indeed save lives.

I just fear the long term consequences. In the past the government is generally slow to give up powers once it has used them... if it ever gives back the powers. So will the government decide it wants to keep some of the powers its’ implementing now? Maybe...

Just look at the Federal Income Tax...

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-inc ... unt-2015-2

“Income taxes were initially a temporary provision. Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861, which included a tax on personal income to help pay for the hefty expenses of the Civil War. Without proper enforcement, however, it raised little money. In turn, the Internal Revenue Act of 1862 created the Internal Revenue Service to solve that problem.”

Funny... I guess the word “temporary” means something different to the government.

“The new law levied a 3% tax on individual incomes between $600 and $10,000 (between about $14,000 and $230,000 today) and 5% on greater than that. The act reportedly produced about $55 million in government revenue.”

3% to 5%... now it’s 10%-37%

“The Supreme Court had ruled in 1895 that the income tax violated Article I of the Constitution, so the amendment was necessary to empower the federal government to impose the income tax.”

“The 16th Amendment, which established an official, federal income tax, was ratified on Feb. 3 and went into effect on Feb. 25 1913.”

Obviously the Federal Government REALLY REALLY wanted a Federal Income Tax and was determine to keep this power, one way or another.

What powers will they REALLY want to keep after this crisis? They won’t want to keep businesses shuttered, as that hurts their pocketbooks too, so those will open quick. Parks are no problem/threat... so those will come back. Religious Institutions more often than not work in conjunction with the Government, so those will be back quick. What about this power to track our movements? That seems like a power the Government may want to keep... “just in case theirs another outbreak” they’ll say... but really? Honestly they already can track us illegally... but it’d be nice for the legal system if they could make it this legal, wouldn’t it?

We ready accept crazy screening at airports and the new “Real ID” to travel via air INSIDE the US... so what’s a little more monitor gonna hurt?

(Forgive any typo’s... the iPad keyboard is hard with my fat fingers.)

[mookiemcgee]

The government already has applied authoritarian measures that restrict our freedoms and are Constitutionally Illegal.

The government has cancelled large events, both private and public. We have a Constitutional Right to get together, but the government says “No”. A quick example, the St. Patrick’s Day Parade in Boston was cancelled. The Parade application had been approved and has been going on for years without significant issues. The Government cancels it to “slow the spread” under what authority? Because there’s a law that says the Governor can do it “in an emergency”... but does the Constitution actually give the government this right? No.

We have a Constitution that says we have a Right to worship without interference... but the government has banned masses. Under what authority does the secular government of the USA have the Constitutional Power to demand that a religion cancel masses? It doesn’t.

The government has closed all kinds of private businesses... presumably using these same Emergency Powers; in some cases maybe using Health Ordinances. Yet the Constitution is supposed to protect our right to gather, and a private businesses right to earn a living. The government ignores these rights.

Playgrounds, basketball courts, tennis courts... these are mostly closed around here. In cases where it’s, possible the local town or city government has locked gates and/or put up signs closing these public spaces. So now I can’t use public play areas that were paid for with my tax dollars? Isn’t this some sort of illegal seizure? (I’m particularly annoyed by the tennis courts... my kids play tennis and many of the local courts are locked. If they live together and hit with each other or my wife how can that possible spread the disease to others??? Even if I let my daughter hit with her friend, they’re 78Ft apart and barely touch the ball. It’s silly!)

In some states Police and/or National Guard are pulling over drivers from other states (cars with plates from other states). They are collecting information about where these people are traveling and staying. Is it legal for the government to demand to know where I’m going? I don’t believe you legally need to provide this information to the government... but try telling that to the State Trooper who’s got you pulled over, see what happens.

These travelers, and in some cases just regular residents, are being told to ”self quarantine” or “stay home”. Can the government legally tell me to stay home? There are some laws that give the Federal Government this power but they are very limited in scope and supposed to be used for specific people who have been identified as carriers of specific viruses.

Most of these powers are based on ”Emergency” laws that have been written by lawmakers... but these laws are contrary to the Rights we hold dear in the Constitution.

What’s next? Do they start using our phones to track us like the Chinese are doing? Tracking people to verify if they are complying with “Stay at Home” or other “Quarantine” type orders.

... again... please don’t mistake me... I believe most lawmakers and government leaders are implementing these policies because they think it will save lives. I also believe that in fact institution of these policies will indeed save lives.

I just fear the long term consequences. In the past the government is generally slow to give up powers once it has used them... if it ever gives back the powers. So will the government decide it wants to keep some of the powers its’ implementing now? Maybe...

Just look at the Federal Income Tax...

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-inc ... unt-2015-2

“Income taxes were initially a temporary provision. Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861, which included a tax on personal income to help pay for the hefty expenses of the Civil War. Without proper enforcement, however, it raised little money. In turn, the Internal Revenue Act of 1862 created the Internal Revenue Service to solve that problem.”

Funny... I guess the word “temporary” means something different to the government.

“The new law levied a 3% tax on individual incomes between $600 and $10,000 (between about $14,000 and $230,000 today) and 5% on greater than that. The act reportedly produced about $55 million in government revenue.”

3% to 5%... now it’s 10%-37%

“The Supreme Court had ruled in 1895 that the income tax violated Article I of the Constitution, so the amendment was necessary to empower the federal government to impose the income tax.”

“The 16th Amendment, which established an official, federal income tax, was ratified on Feb. 3 and went into effect on Feb. 25 1913.”

Obviously the Federal Government REALLY REALLY wanted a Federal Income Tax and was determine to keep this power, one way or another.

What powers will they REALLY want to keep after this crisis? They won’t want to keep businesses shuttered, as that hurts their pocketbooks too, so those will open quick. Parks are no problem/threat... so those will come back. Religious Institutions more often than not work in conjunction with the Government, so those will be back quick. What about this power to track our movements? That seems like a power the Government may want to keep... “just in case theirs another outbreak” they’ll say... but really? Honestly they already can track us illegally... but it’d be nice for the legal system if they could make it this legal, wouldn’t it?

We ready accept crazy screening at airports and the new “Real ID” to travel via air INSIDE the US... so what’s a little more monitor gonna hurt?

(Forgive any typo’s... the iPad keyboard is hard with my fat fingers.)

I think maybe you are mixing up the USA constitution and federal powers, with those individual state constitutions and the powers they may or may not have in them. As far as I am aware, no business' have been forced to close due to powers exerted by the Federal gov't (please correct me if I'm wrong here, the only one I can think this might apply to is the cruise ship industry).

Parade in MA banned by Governor - not a federal issue, US constitution does apply.
Masses banned by Govenor - not a federal issue, US constitution does apply.
Business closed through health ordinance - local issue, probably not even the state's own constitution applies.

As far as I am aware nearly all mandates in the country regarding closures due to Covid have come from the state and local level and NOT the federal level.

[jimboston]

I think maybe you are mixing up the USA constitution and federal powers, with those individual state constitutions and the powers they may or may not have in them. As far as I am aware, no business' have been forced to close due to powers exerted by the Federal gov't (please correct me if I'm wrong here, the only one I can think this might apply to is the cruise ship industry).

Parade in MA banned by Governor - not a federal issue, US constitution does apply.
Masses banned by Govenor - not a federal issue, US constitution does apply.
Business closed through health ordinance - local issue, probably not even the state's own constitution applies.

As far as I am aware nearly all mandates in the country regarding closures due to Covid have come from the state and local level and NOT the federal level.

Ummm... the US Constitution does apply.

State Laws and State Powers cannot be in violation of EITHER the State Constitution or the US Constitution.

The Federal Gov’t has issued mandates... but regardless of whether the Federal Gov’t issued a mandate or a State Gov’t issued it... it is still NOT supposed to violate the Constitution.

Health ordinances are supposed to be specific and directed at businesses who violate health laws. How is being open automatically a violation of a Health Ordinance? It’s not. They are using Health Codes illegally... at least initially. Now they’re just using blanket “Emergency” powers to violate the Constitution.

[mookiemcgee]

I think maybe you are mixing up the USA constitution and federal powers, with those individual state constitutions and the powers they may or may not have in them. As far as I am aware, no business' have been forced to close due to powers exerted by the Federal gov't (please correct me if I'm wrong here, the only one I can think this might apply to is the cruise ship industry).

Parade in MA banned by Governor - not a federal issue, US constitution does apply.
Masses banned by Govenor - not a federal issue, US constitution does apply.
Business closed through health ordinance - local issue, probably not even the state's own constitution applies.

As far as I am aware nearly all mandates in the country regarding closures due to Covid have come from the state and local level and NOT the federal level.

Ummm... the US Constitution does apply.

State Laws and State Powers cannot be in violation of EITHER the State Constitution or the US Constitution.

The Federal Gov’t has issued mandates... but regardless of whether the Federal Gov’t issued a mandate or a State Gov’t issued it... it is still NOT supposed to violate the Constitution.

Health ordinances are supposed to be specific and directed at businesses who violate health laws. How is being open automatically a violation of a Health Ordinance? It’s not. They are using Health Codes illegally... at least initially. Now they’re just using blanket “Emergency” powers to violate the Constitution.

What mandates has the Fed Gov't issued?

Most municipalities aren't closing restaurants entirely, they are allowing them to do take out orders. It's pretty easy to just say something is unconstitutional... Maybe you have a court case that can back you up on this? A clear decision saying it's unconstitutional for local municipalities to close restaurants under their purview during a pandemic?

[mrswdk]

The government has cancelled large events, both private and public. We have a Constitutional Right to get together, but the government says “No”. A quick example, the St. Patrick’s Day Parade in Boston was cancelled. The Parade application had been approved and has been going on for years without significant issues. The Government cancels it to “slow the spread” under what authority? Because there’s a law that says the Governor can do it “in an emergency”... but does the Constitution actually give the government this right? No.

WE DEMAND THE RIGHT TO INFECT AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE PLEASE

Come on, dude. You acknowledge later in this same post that you're aware these measures are being put in place because if they're not, a lot more people will die.

Next you'll be complaining about the police having the power to arrest people.

I believe most lawmakers and government leaders are implementing these policies because they think it will save lives. I also believe that in fact institution of these policies will indeed save lives.

I just fear the long term consequences. In the past the government is generally slow to give up powers once it has used them... if it ever gives back the powers. So will the government decide it wants to keep some of the powers its’ implementing now? Maybe...

So are you saying that the government should be implementing these measures or that it shouldn't?

[KoolBak]

For the first time, I am fully in agreement with the Chinaman.

And....JB, I just don't have the words or care enough to try. You are dead to me.

Suggestion: love and care for your family, don't tweak out over conspiracy bullshit like a little bitch.

[jimboston]

What mandates has the Fed Gov't issued?

Most municipalities aren't closing restaurants entirely, they are allowing them to do take out orders. It's pretty easy to just say something is unconstitutional... Maybe you have a court case that can back you up on this? A clear decision saying it's unconstitutional for local municipalities to close restaurants under their purview during a pandemic?

Oh sorry... the media is calling the mandates “guidelines”. A rose is a rose by any other name my friend.

In Massachusetts it’s not municipalities closing businesses... it’s the State mandating the closure.

In some cases they are LETTING businesses stay open... some they DEEM necessary (like supermarkets) are fully open, others (like restaurants) they are LETTING be open for take-out (of course not all restaurants are setup for takeout, so tough luck to those that can’t adapt)... most other businesses are just closed. Period.

.. from Wiki...
“The Constitution does not expressly grant the president additional powers in times of national emergency. However, many scholars think that the Framers implied these powers because the structural design of the Executive Branch enables it to act faster than the Legislative Branch. Because the Constitution remains silent on the issue, the courts cannot grant the Executive Branch these powers when it tries to wield them. The courts will only recognize a right of the Executive Branch to use emergency powers if Congress has granted such powers to the president.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of ... ted_States

So these powers are granted to the President... and they are supposed to be limited.

The powers are NOT granted to Governors or people who run the CDC or other bureaucrats.

... AGAIN... I’m NOT saying the government is wrong taking these actions. I just fear that this intrusion into our personal lives is just another step on our freedoms... that the government has been stepping on these rights slowly since WW2, and that every time they impede a bit they give most (but not all) things back, and the balance shifts in an uncomfortable way.

[jimboston]

WE DEMAND THE RIGHT TO INFECT AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE PLEASE

Come on, dude. You acknowledge later in this same post that you're aware these measures are being put in place because if they're not, a lot more people will die.

So are you saying that the government should be implementing these measures or that it shouldn't?

I’M CONFLICTED!!!



I realize we need to ‘lock down’ and that we probably should’ve acted sooner.

I realize you need to make it mandatory... because if it’s voluntary people won’t do it.
(Just look at Spring Break in FL, or Mardi Gras... these we’re hotbeds of contagion that are just now being felt in other parts of the countries when many of these partiers went back home having caught the virus.)

BUT

I DON’T TRUST the Government... and I fear they will try to hold onto some of these powers and/or they will use this as a precedent to enact these types of controls for other “problems”. Maybe for example if there are protests or some sort of social unrest the powers-that-be don’t like... they can say “we know how to shut this stuff down now, so let’s do it”. I just have a healthy distrust for the Government, and feel we need to keep our collective eye on them to keep them honest.

[jimboston]

For the first time, I am fully in agreement with the Chinaman.

And....JB, I just don't have the words or care enough to try. You are dead to me.

Suggestion: love and care for your family, don't tweak out over conspiracy bullshit like a little bitch.

You fully trust the Government?

I’m not a Conspiracy Nut.

I just don’t feel comfortable with the government stepping on our Constitutional Rights... even if it is for our own good.

Ultimately I know it’s gotta happen... but I still have the Right to complain about it... don’t I.

(and how can I be dead to you... I thought we were Bro’s?)

[mrswdk]

I realize we need to ‘lock down’ and that we probably should’ve acted sooner.

I realize you need to make it mandatory... because if it’s voluntary people won’t do it.

BUT

I DON’T TRUST the Government... I just have a healthy distrust for the Government, and feel we need to keep our collective eye on them to keep them honest.

So you don't trust the government at all but nevertheless continue to support it? Sounds like daddy issues to me; maybe you should speak to someone professional.

[jimboston]

I realize we need to ‘lock down’ and that we probably should’ve acted sooner.

I realize you need to make it mandatory... because if it’s voluntary people won’t do it.

BUT

I DON’T TRUST the Government... I just have a healthy distrust for the Government, and feel we need to keep our collective eye on them to keep them honest.

So you don't trust the government at all but nevertheless continue to support it? Sounds like daddy issues to me; maybe you should speak to someone professional.

Was not my opening line in my last reply...

I’M CONFLICTED!!!

Are you not able to understand what that means?

[mookiemcgee]

What mandates has the Fed Gov't issued?

Most municipalities aren't closing restaurants entirely, they are allowing them to do take out orders. It's pretty easy to just say something is unconstitutional... Maybe you have a court case that can back you up on this? A clear decision saying it's unconstitutional for local municipalities to close restaurants under their purview during a pandemic?

Oh sorry... the media is calling the mandates “guidelines”. A rose is a rose by any other name my friend.

In Massachusetts it’s not municipalities closing businesses... it’s the State mandating the closure.

In some cases they are LETTING businesses stay open... some they DEEM necessary (like supermarkets) are fully open, others (like restaurants) they are LETTING be open for take-out (of course not all restaurants are setup for takeout, so tough luck to those that can’t adapt)... most other businesses are just closed. Period.

.. from Wiki...
“The Constitution does not expressly grant the president additional powers in times of national emergency. However, many scholars think that the Framers implied these powers because the structural design of the Executive Branch enables it to act faster than the Legislative Branch. Because the Constitution remains silent on the issue, the courts cannot grant the Executive Branch these powers when it tries to wield them. The courts will only recognize a right of the Executive Branch to use emergency powers if Congress has granted such powers to the president.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of ... ted_States

So these powers are granted to the President... and they are supposed to be limited.

The powers are NOT granted to Governors or people who run the CDC or other bureaucrats.

... AGAIN... I’m NOT saying the government is wrong taking these actions. I just fear that this intrusion into our personal lives is just another step on our freedoms... that the government has been stepping on these rights slowly since WW2, and that every time they impede a bit they give most (but not all) things back, and the balance shifts in an uncomfortable way.

you are all over the place here man. So the president has the power to close all business in an emergency(on a national level) and that is not unconstitutional (per your own quote from the great law journal wikipedia), but a state doesn't have the authority to protect it's own people because why? It undermines the federal power?

"States—and their cities and counties by extension—possess what has long been known as a “police power” to govern for the health, welfare and safety of their citizens. This broad authority, which can be traced to English common law and is reserved to the states by the 10th Amendment, is far from radical; it justifies why states can regulate at all."

"The police power of the states has been invoked on multiple occasions by the Supreme Court, often in contrast to the limited powers of the federal government—for example, in Chief Justice John Roberts’ opinion in the 2012 Obamacare case. This power also has been recognized in the context of public health for decades. In a 1905 Supreme Court case that upheld mandatory smallpox vaccinations, the court observed that “upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.”"

Personally I'll take the supreme courts opinion on what constitutional over yours, but it's America so you are entitled to your opinion i suppose.

[HitRed]

I think the wet food markets are interesting. Living in the Western world just about everything is processed or refrigerated.

[mrswdk]

You do actually see meat sold like that in Europe as well. It's primarily just in farmer's markets (which you only really see in small towns, or city districts frequented by hipsters/try-hards), although in London there is a big meat market in the city centre (Smithfield) and a big fish market just outside the financial district (Billingsgate).

The challenge in China and elsewhere is that they aren't regulated as effectively, so they can be less hygienic and you end up with completely unchecked wildlife being sold in some of them.

[jimboston]

Mookie, the Wiki Article DOES NOT say that Emergency Powers are Constitutional!

It specifically says the “Constitution remans silent” on the issue.

Some people take this silence to mean it’s “OK”; others believe the powers granted the President are enumerated and he shouldn’t have powers that are not specifically granted ESPECIALLY when those powers CONFLICT with Rights and Freedoms that ARE specifically addressed in the Constitution.

According to the Wiki article the President is granted these powers by Legislative action... however the Legislature DOES NOT have the right to make laws that Conflict with the Rights and Freedoms we are granted by the Constitution.

Neither does any State Governor or Legislature have the right or power to impede our Constitutionally protected rights.

These powers are not often tested by SCOTUS for a variety of reasons... not the least of which is the fact that everyone realizes they are prudent measures, and they don’t want to have to rule they’re Unconstitutional (though if pressed in some cases they might just do that).

Read this article... the ACLU seems to agree with me...

https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberti ... cy-powers/

[mookiemcgee]

Mookie, the Wiki Article DOES NOT say that Emergency Powers are Constitutional!

It specifically says the “Constitution remans silent” on the issue.

Some people take this silence to mean it’s “OK”; others believe the powers granted the President are enumerated and he shouldn’t have powers that are not specifically granted ESPECIALLY when those powers CONFLICT with Rights and Freedoms that ARE specifically addressed in the Constitution.

According to the Wiki article the President is granted these powers by Legislative action... however the Legislature DOES NOT have the right to make laws that Conflict with the Rights and Freedoms we are granted by the Constitution.

Neither does any State Governor or Legislature have the right or power to impede our Constitutionally protected rights.

These powers are not often tested by SCOTUS for a variety of reasons... not the least of which is the fact that everyone realizes they are prudent measures, and they don’t want to have to rule they’re Unconstitutional (though if pressed in some cases they might just do that).

Read this article... the ACLU seems to agree with me...

https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberti ... cy-powers/

That article doesn't have anything do to with the type of emergency (a health emergency) that we are dealing with now, and was written in 2019.

You keep pointing to generalized statements about the relationship between states and the fed in regards to the constitution, and then say SCOTUS 'rarely' rules on these types of things... My post gave you a clear example of when SCOTUS ruled that you are wrong. Again in case you missed it:

upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.

[mrswdk]

Yeah but communities protecting themselves is just another example of big government gone mad.

jim must be a Thatcher fan, what with all this ‘no such thing as society’ malarkey he’s spouting.