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Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby NomadPatriot on Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:18 am

ever notice these Global Climate Temperature Change Chaos Warming defenders can never actually provide facts that human activity is warming the planet..

it's always a 'theory' or a Probability' or 'most likely'....

the best part about a 'Scientific Fact' is the last sentence.. which seems to ALWAYS happen..

-->

Scientific fact definition

Scientific Facts. When most people refer to a "fact," they are talking about something which is definitely, absolutely and unquestionably true. For scientists, a fact is something which is assumed to be true, at least for the purposes of whatever they are doing at the moment, but which might be refuted at some point
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:33 am

Unlike Chemistry or Physics, there is not a laboratory to test these theories about climate. Hence the discussion is based on Probabilities. The work is done by using models and looking at evidence that can only be stated as probabilities.

One cannot run an experiment about climate to prove a theory beyond any doubt.

Such realities differentiate such sciences as Chemistry and Physics from Climate Science.

simple, basic science. FACT.
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby tzor on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:41 am

jusplay4fun wrote:I think Tzor ignores the evidence. 95% is a very high probability. The amount of atmospheric CO2 above 400 ppm is also very compelling and cogent and further supports this idea. Again, Tzor ignores the evidence.


I trust the "evidence" of the UN as much as a trust the "evidence" of Exxon Mobil. Both are agenda driven science. The only thing the UN wants is a useless treaty that requires hundreds of well paid government officials to write and administer the regulations that effectively does nothing.

If they were right about the correlation between CO2 and temperature then all the models would be spot on. They are not. It's like economics; somehow the fact that the theories don't seem to work in the real world doesn't seem to deter the so called "scientists." Data drives the model; the model doesn't drive the data.
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby tzor on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:43 am

jusplay4fun wrote:Unlike Chemistry or Physics, there is not a laboratory to test these theories about climate. Hence the discussion is based on Probabilities. The work is done by using models and looking at evidence that can only be stated as probabilities.


I'll have to search for this when I get the time, but I think there is data that basically established a direct correlation between aerosols and global cooling, but that research was before the Internet so I'm not sure where to start looking. It's a lot more solid than CO2 and warming.
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:18 pm

You cannot dismiss the evidence that i cited because it is from the UN. That does not refute or negate my argument or offer adequate refutation. It is not a denial worth typing.

My evidence is from NOAA and NASA.



tzor wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:I think Tzor ignores the evidence. 95% is a very high probability. The amount of atmospheric CO2 above 400 ppm is also very compelling and cogent and further supports this idea. Again, Tzor ignores the evidence.


I trust the "evidence" of the UN as much as a trust the "evidence" of Exxon Mobil. Both are agenda driven science. The only thing the UN wants is a useless treaty that requires hundreds of well paid government officials to write and administer the regulations that effectively does nothing.

If they were right about the correlation between CO2 and temperature then all the models would be spot on. They are not. It's like economics; somehow the fact that the theories don't seem to work in the real world doesn't seem to deter the so called "scientists." Data drives the model; the model doesn't drive the data.
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby NomadPatriot on Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:42 pm

we will just see if one day noaa & nasa will say "nothing is wrong.. everything is fine. .you do not need to fund us anymore with federal money.."

yeah.. it's all about that money..

but the real question is does JP deny Aerosols cool the atmosphere..?

is he a Global Cooling Denier...?
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby jusplay4fun on Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:13 pm

FOUND:

JP4Fun

aer·o·sol

noun
a substance enclosed under pressure and able to be released as a fine spray, typically by means of a propellant gas.
a container holding an aerosol.
CHEMISTRY
a colloidal suspension of particles dispersed in air or gas.
"the organisms are spread in the aerosols generated by showers"

https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+aerosol&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS777US777&oq=definition+of+aerosol&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.10668j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Just 5 questions: Aerosols

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/215/just- ... -aerosols/

Interview by Dr. Amber Jenkins,
NASA/Jet Propulsion Laboratory

While the word “aerosol” may conjure up thoughts of things that come in spray cans, it means something quite different to scientists. And it turns out that aerosols have a far bigger role to play in climate change and global warming than originally thought. Dr. Amber Jenkins spoke to researcher Dr. Nadine Unger to find out more.

1. What are aerosols? Aren’t they the things that come in spray cans?
Aerosols are tiny particles in the air that can be produced when we burn different types of fossil fuels — coal, petroleum, wood and biofuels — in different ways. A significant man-made source of aerosols is pollution from cars and factories. If you live in a big city you’re probably pretty familiar with soot, an aerosol that forms black layers on your windowsill. But aerosols can also be produced naturally, for example, through being given off from trees or burning vegetation.
The word “aerosol” is used by scientists to mean “atmospheric particulate”. But it was used a lot by the media during the 1980s and 1990s to refer to the spray cans that released chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) into the air, which damage the ozone layer and created the ozone hole. So it’s no surprise that there is some confusion over the word!

2. Is there a link between aerosols and climate change?
Yes. Aerosols have a profound impact on the climate because, just like greenhouse gases, they are able to change the Earth’s “radiative”, or energy, balance. Aerosols can control how much energy from the sun reaches the planet’s surface by changing the amount that is absorbed in the atmosphere and the amount that is scattered back out to space. It turns out that most aerosols are cooling — that is to say, they reflect the sun’s energy back out into space. There is only one aerosol — soot, also known as black carbon — that actually helps contribute to global warming by boosting the warming effects of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
Since the Industrial Revolution, humans have pumped more and more aerosols into the air, and this in turn has actually counteracted global warming to a significant degree. Using climate models, we estimate that aerosols have masked about 50 percent of the warming that would otherwise have been caused by greenhouse gases trapping heat near the surface of the Earth. Without the presence of these aerosols in the air, our models suggest that the planet would be about 1 °C (1.8 °F) hotter.


3. So aerosols are a good thing then?
No. It’s true that aerosols have limited the warming that we’ve experienced on Earth since the Industrial Revolution. But they also have very big, detrimental impacts on human health, and have been implicated in health problems such as lung damage. Aerosols also affect other parts of the climate system like rainfall — reducing rain in areas like India and China where it is desperately needed for food production — and they alter patterns of wind and atmospheric circulation.

4. How can we reduce aerosol levels?
In the US, diesel vehicles are the major source of soot, and filters on exhaust pipes can help reduce the amount that they pump into the air. In terms of sulfate aerosols, which are created by sulfur dioxide given off by power plants, the US and Europe have very successfully used sulfur dioxide scrubbers in power plants to reduce these emissions over the past 20 years or so. But we can definitely do more.
By reducing aerosol (soot) emissions, we can buy ourselves some climate time — about 5 to 10 years — while we work on reducing emissions of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) in parallel. CO2, you see, hangs around in the atmosphere for an extremely long time, from decades to centuries, so even if we implement cuts today, it will take years for them to take effect. Aerosols, on the other hand, have much shorter lifetimes. If we work to reduce soot emissions now, which can enhance the global warming effect of CO2 by 20-50 percent, the climate impacts will be felt more rapidly.

5. What are you working on right now?
I have a paper in review at the moment that is quite exciting; we're looking at the future total climate impacts of current emissions from different industries, taking into account the effects of both greenhouse gases such as CO2, ozone and methane, and the impacts of aerosols. What we've found is that for the next 40 years, emissions from road vehicles will have the largest global warming impacts of all human activities — because of the air pollutant effects that enhance greenhouse gas warming. After 2050, however, power sector emissions are by far the largest global warmer because of the build up of CO2 in the atmosphere from that activity.

There are a few other relevant questions coming out of this. In particular, should we be including the effects of aerosols (also known as “non-CO2 effects”) in emissions trading schemes? The aviation industry is starting to consider this, but shouldn’t we be doing it for all the other industries and sectors as well?



tzor wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:Unlike Chemistry or Physics, there is not a laboratory to test these theories about climate. Hence the discussion is based on Probabilities. The work is done by using models and looking at evidence that can only be stated as probabilities.


I'll have to search for this when I get the time, but I think there is data that basically established a direct correlation between aerosols and global cooling, but that research was before the Internet so I'm not sure where to start looking. It's a lot more solid than CO2 and warming.
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby NomadPatriot on Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:35 pm

by NomadPatriot on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:53 am

NomadPatriot wrote: it's like no one remembers the 1970's cooling period where humans caused the earth to cool by releasing Aerosols into the atmosphere. ( but humans cannot make the earth colder. those top scientists were wrong. today's top scientists are right.. )
--> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:23 am

Some fail to comprehend the notion that even a broken analog clock is right twice a day.

Few things in life are absolutes. Even the quote about Death and Taxes:

This is usually attributed to Benjamin Franklin, who wrote in a 1789 letter that “Our new Constitution is now established, and has an appearance that promises permanency; but in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.” However, The Yale Book of Quotations quotes “‘Tis impossible to be sure of any thing but Death and Taxes,” from Christopher Bullock, The Cobler of Preston (1716). The YBQ also quotes “Death and Taxes, they are certain,” from Edward Ward, The Dancing Devils (1724).
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby NomadPatriot on Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:36 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:Some fail to comprehend the notion that even a broken analog clock is right twice a day.

Few things in life are absolutes. Even the quote about Death and Taxes:

This is usually attributed to Benjamin Franklin, who wrote in a 1789 letter that “Our new Constitution is now established, and has an appearance that promises permanency; but in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.” However, The Yale Book of Quotations quotes “‘Tis impossible to be sure of any thing but Death and Taxes,” from Christopher Bullock, The Cobler of Preston (1716). The YBQ also quotes “Death and Taxes, they are certain,” from Edward Ward, The Dancing Devils (1724).



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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby riskllama on Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:18 pm

I wonder if NP knows what irony means... :?
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby tzor on Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:42 pm

Meanwhile. in my very own back yard (not literal, but fugitive) here is a heart warming story of environmental nut jobs trying to prevent solar panels in an former golf course and section of farmland: Council members call special board meeting to act on solar power application ... the comments are priceless

"Welcome to the Republican-run Town of Riverhead folks. Environmental studies be damned. Let business have its way. And this is just the beginning!" Because solar farms are a tool of evil corporations?

You know that people think the global warming thing is a farce when they start to oppose the very things they previously were pushing merely because it could benefit (somehow) the other political party.
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Re: Everywhere is warming TWICE AS FAST as everywhere else

Postby NomadPatriot on Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:23 pm

tzor wrote:Meanwhile. in my very own back yard (not literal, but fugitive) here is a heart warming story of environmental nut jobs trying to prevent solar panels in an former golf course and section of farmland: Council members call special board meeting to act on solar power application ... the comments are priceless

"Welcome to the Republican-run Town of Riverhead folks. Environmental studies be damned. Let business have its way. And this is just the beginning!" Because solar farms are a tool of evil corporations?

You know that people think the global warming thing is a farce when they start to oppose the very things they previously were pushing merely because it could benefit (somehow) the other political party.


if Trump lined the border wall end to end w/ Solar Panels... providing free energy for all southern border states... the Left would denounce Solar Power & call it racist..
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