"US jealous of Huawei" - Ramaphosa

[mrswdk]

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa came out strongly in defence of Chinese telecoms company Huawei on Friday at a conference focussing on the 4th Industrial Revolution.

"The United States has been unable to imagine a better future which goes beyond 4 plus 1G, where they have been unable to imagine what 5G can offer, and where now clearly they are jealous," said Ramaphosa.

"They are jealous that a Chinese company called Huawei has outstripped them. And because they have been outstripped they must now punish that one company and use it as a pawn in the fight that they have with China."

Ramaphosa referenced a letter he said he had received from local telecoms companies to say the tussle between China and the US around Huawei is hurting SA.

He said the telecoms companies told him: "We want to go to 5G and only this company Huawei can lead us to 5G and the United States is now punishing them. We have to say we support the company that is going to take our country and indeed the world to better technologies and this is 5G [...] because we cannot afford to have our own economy held back."

https://m.fin24.com/Companies/Financial ... i-20190705

[jimboston]

because the South African President is an expert on Technology and Hacking?

[nietzsche]

as if apple or ms products didn't have backdoors for the US government to use at will, just mentioning patriot act.

[jimboston]

Not a fan of backdoors that allow gov’t access... but if I had to choose I’d prefer the NSA have then rather than the Chinese Gov’t.

[mrswdk]

as if apple or ms products didn't have backdoors for the US government to use at will, just mentioning patriot act.

It is a published fact that they do:

https://www.theverge.com/2013/6/6/44038 ... hers-prism

That's okay though, because they're American companies.

[jimboston]

again... would you trust the NSA or Chinese Gov’t?

I’d prefer neither... but if I have to choose it’s the NSA every day.

[mrswdk]

What do you think the Chinese government is going to do that the American government wouldn't?

[jimboston]

What do you think the Chinese government is going to do that the American government wouldn't?

Harm American national interests.

[nietzsche]

now that's a fucking answer.


if we stop beating around the bushes with bullshit, we understand each other better.

it's not that Huawei is evil. It's not that NSA guys are clean and pretty and with strong morals and the chinese guys are dirty, ugly and with a backwards view of the world like Hollywood portraits them.

it would be good also that we stop pretending world leaders and rich people have our best interests at heart, and it would be even better if we stopped behaving like 15yo horny cheerleaders for them.

It would be even better if we stopped paying attention to all the bullshit and live our lives and spend our brain-time in better stuff, like movies or books or hot women or sports.

[mrswdk]

nietzsche beat me to it but why does that matter to me, or anyone else who lives outside of America? I'll take a cheaper and better Huawei phone over an expensive and shit iPhone any day.

Interesting that you think the current American government is doing a good job of protecting American interests.

[jimboston]

nietzsche beat me to it but why does that matter to me, or anyone else who lives outside of America? I'll take a cheaper and better Huawei phone over an expensive and shit iPhone any day.

Don’t get me wrong. The obvious answer is that the NSA is more likely to use it’s technological prowess and/or forced backdoors to benefit USA interests than Huawei is... this is self evident. Going deeper, I don’t ‘trust’ either entity... but I do think they are likely to use their ‘hacks’ in very different ways that could affect me.

The NSA may invade my privacy, but it’s not likely to affect me directly because my activities don’t generally conflict with the national interests of the USA.

I know nothing about the goals of Huawei... at the very least they’re commercial, but they’re also likely a pawn of the Chinese Gov’t. The Chinese gov’t doesn’t care about what I do, because my activities don’t generally conflict with the national interests of China. However, the commercial aspects of Huawei could mean that they sell my data or do something that could actively harm me... either directly or as part of some mass exploitation.

So there’s the obvious answer... and then there’s some less probable but not impossible negatives as well.

Interesting that you think the current American government is doing a good job of protecting American interests.

I’m curious... where did I say this?

[mrswdk]

nietzsche beat me to it but why does that matter to me, or anyone else who lives outside of America? I'll take a cheaper and better Huawei phone over an expensive and shit iPhone any day.

Don’t get me wrong. The obvious answer is that the NSA is more likely to use it’s technological prowess and/or forced backdoors to benefit USA interests than Huawei is... this is self evident. Going deeper, I don’t ‘trust’ either entity... but I do think they are likely to use their ‘hacks’ in very different ways that could affect me.

The NSA may invade my privacy, but it’s not likely to affect me directly because my activities don’t generally conflict with the national interests of the USA.

I know nothing about the goals of Huawei... at the very least they’re commercial, but they’re also likely a pawn of the Chinese Gov’t. The Chinese gov’t doesn’t care about what I do, because my activities don’t generally conflict with the national interests of China. However, the commercial aspects of Huawei could mean that they sell my data or do something that could actively harm me... either directly or as part of some mass exploitation.

So there’s the obvious answer... and then there’s some less probable but not impossible negatives as well.

It's not 'Huawei or the NSA'. It's 'Huawei, linked to the Chinese intelligence services, or Apple, linked to the American intelligence services'.

Your data is not being collected directly by the NSA. It is first being collected by Google, Apple etc. (commercial companies) and then harvested by the NSA and FBI. If you're worried about what would happen if Huawei sold your data then shouldn't you also be worried about Apple, Google etc. selling your data?

Interesting that you think the current American government is doing a good job of protecting American interests.

I’m curious... where did I say this?

You said that the Chinese government would harm American interests but that the American government wouldn't.

If you think the American government is not currently harming American interests then by extension they must be at the very least sustaining American interests.

[jimboston]

It's not 'Huawei or the NSA'. It's 'Huawei, linked to the Chinese intelligence services, or Apple, linked to the American intelligence services'.

Your data is not being collected directly by the NSA. It is first being collected by Google, Apple etc. (commercial companies) and then harvested by the NSA and FBI. If you're worried about what would happen if Huawei sold your data then shouldn't you also be worried about Apple, Google etc. selling your data?

Still more worried about Huawei. I ‘trust’ Apple and Google more... yeah they’ll use my data... but I don’t think they’ll sell it to criminal organizations, I am concerned that Huawei might do this. Ultimately it comes down to who don’t trust most... and that’s Huawei

You said that the Chinese government would harm American interests but that the American government wouldn't.

If you think the American government is not currently harming American interests then by extension they must be at the very least sustaining American interests.

I didn’t say what you’re suggesting I said, and you’re obviously taking my comments out of context.

In the CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD I said that the USA Gov’t won’t use backdoors/data to harm American Interests. Now you and I can debate about whether or not the actions of the US Gov’t harm our interests or not... but we both know the INTENTION of the US Gov’t is to promote its’ own interests, not harm its’ own interests. The intention of Huawei/Chinese gov’t is to promote its’ interests, which may be in conflict with US interests.

Now you know what I said and in what context, so please don’t try to turn my words around and take them out of context again.

If you want to discuss something about US actions harming US interests that’s fine...probably another thread....

[mrswdk]

It's not 'Huawei or the NSA'. It's 'Huawei, linked to the Chinese intelligence services, or Apple, linked to the American intelligence services'.

Your data is not being collected directly by the NSA. It is first being collected by Google, Apple etc. (commercial companies) and then harvested by the NSA and FBI. If you're worried about what would happen if Huawei sold your data then shouldn't you also be worried about Apple, Google etc. selling your data?

Still more worried about Huawei. I ‘trust’ Apple and Google more... yeah they’ll use my data... but I don’t think they’ll sell it to criminal organizations, I am concerned that Huawei might do this.

You think that Huawei - one of the biggest, most high-profile companies and scrutinised companies in the world - is going to collect personal data of millions of its customers and sell that data to 'criminal organisations'? What possible reason would they have for doing that?

Maybe you're also concerned that Bank of China is taking money out of European customers' accounts and sending it straight to ISIS for them to buy bombs with?

[HitRed]

They Earn it.

[nietzsche]

It's not 'Huawei or the NSA'. It's 'Huawei, linked to the Chinese intelligence services, or Apple, linked to the American intelligence services'.

Your data is not being collected directly by the NSA. It is first being collected by Google, Apple etc. (commercial companies) and then harvested by the NSA and FBI. If you're worried about what would happen if Huawei sold your data then shouldn't you also be worried about Apple, Google etc. selling your data?

Still more worried about Huawei. I ‘trust’ Apple and Google more... yeah they’ll use my data... but I don’t think they’ll sell it to criminal organizations, I am concerned that Huawei might do this.

You think that Huawei - one of the biggest, most high-profile companies and scrutinised companies in the world - is going to collect personal data of millions of its customers and sell that data to 'criminal organisations'? What possible reason would they have for doing that?

Maybe you're also concerned that Bank of China is taking money out of European customers' accounts and sending it straight to ISIS for them to buy bombs with?

think mrs wdk.

who is he going to believe, hours and hours of tv with pretty colours and asian villains that make him company in his most personal moments, while he scratches his balls?

or the typed words of a tranny he doesn't like.

will before reason. how many times have i told you all this?

you're all a bunch of idiots.

and he thinks adult stewie is the smartest person in this forum, when I'm clearly 20 iq points ahead of anyone.

and i'm ripped. i treat this body like a friggin temple. planks, every day.

[mrswdk]

Planking? Next you'll be telling us about your pelvic floor exercises.

[2dimes]

Ok you earned my vote.

[Bernie Sanders]

Planking? Next you'll be telling us about your pelvic floor exercises.

Are you saying he humps the floor?

[2dimes]

Nope.

[jimboston]

It's not 'Huawei or the NSA'. It's 'Huawei, linked to the Chinese intelligence services, or Apple, linked to the American intelligence services'.

Your data is not being collected directly by the NSA. It is first being collected by Google, Apple etc. (commercial companies) and then harvested by the NSA and FBI. If you're worried about what would happen if Huawei sold your data then shouldn't you also be worried about Apple, Google etc. selling your data?

Still more worried about Huawei. I ‘trust’ Apple and Google more... yeah they’ll use my data... but I don’t think they’ll sell it to criminal organizations, I am concerned that Huawei might do this.

You think that Huawei - one of the biggest, most high-profile companies and scrutinised companies in the world - is going to collect personal data of millions of its customers and sell that data to 'criminal organisations'? What possible reason would they have for doing that?

Maybe you're also concerned that Bank of China is taking money out of European customers' accounts and sending it straight to ISIS for them to buy bombs with?

Maybe. I don’t know. Chinese financial systems are NOT scrutinized or regulated anywhere near to the extent that Western banks are... this is a simple fact. Only recently have the markets opened a little and financial transparency has become better... but still not to Western standards. The ‘West’ has a long tradition of financial transparency in corporations that are traded in markets and it’s going to take awhile for China to get there.

In the meanwhile who knows WTF Huawei is going to do or the Bank of China either.... on their own or at the behest of the Chinese Govt.

I’ve never said I fully trust my gov’t, nor do I think all my gov’ts actions help our National Interest; though I think they’re usually attempts to benefit the National Interest.

That said, I do trust my gov’t enough to believe they have valid reasons for wanting to cut Huawei off.

[jimboston]

https://www.cnet.com/news/huawei-ban-fu ... nder-fire/

This isn’t new... this has been ongoing since 2012 and earlier.

The US isn’t the only country that bans Huawei phones.

[jimboston]

https://www.cnet.com/news/us-hammers-hu ... eft-fraud/

China doesn’t respect intellectual property... it’s a cultural thing and it’s going to be a source of contention at least until China starts inventing it’s own shit. China is great at lowering cost of manufacturing and at tweaking designs, but it’s not great at creating new things or respecting the patents of others.

This isn’t new.

Oh and don’t bring up gin powder and noodles and paper.... yes we know those were invented in China. I’m talking about modern post WW2 history.

[mrswdk]

It's not 'Huawei or the NSA'. It's 'Huawei, linked to the Chinese intelligence services, or Apple, linked to the American intelligence services'.

Your data is not being collected directly by the NSA. It is first being collected by Google, Apple etc. (commercial companies) and then harvested by the NSA and FBI. If you're worried about what would happen if Huawei sold your data then shouldn't you also be worried about Apple, Google etc. selling your data?

Still more worried about Huawei. I ‘trust’ Apple and Google more... yeah they’ll use my data... but I don’t think they’ll sell it to criminal organizations, I am concerned that Huawei might do this.

You think that Huawei - one of the biggest, most high-profile companies and scrutinised companies in the world - is going to collect personal data of millions of its customers and sell that data to 'criminal organisations'? What possible reason would they have for doing that?

Maybe you're also concerned that Bank of China is taking money out of European customers' accounts and sending it straight to ISIS for them to buy bombs with?

Maybe. I don’t know.

Christ.

[jimboston]

It's not 'Huawei or the NSA'. It's 'Huawei, linked to the Chinese intelligence services, or Apple, linked to the American intelligence services'.

Your data is not being collected directly by the NSA. It is first being collected by Google, Apple etc. (commercial companies) and then harvested by the NSA and FBI. If you're worried about what would happen if Huawei sold your data then shouldn't you also be worried about Apple, Google etc. selling your data?

Still more worried about Huawei. I ‘trust’ Apple and Google more... yeah they’ll use my data... but I don’t think they’ll sell it to criminal organizations, I am concerned that Huawei might do this.

You think that Huawei - one of the biggest, most high-profile companies and scrutinised companies in the world - is going to collect personal data of millions of its customers and sell that data to 'criminal organisations'? What possible reason would they have for doing that?

Maybe you're also concerned that Bank of China is taking money out of European customers' accounts and sending it straight to ISIS for them to buy bombs with?

Maybe. I don’t know.

Christ.

Trying to pull a Nomad?

That’s when you take 3 - 5 words out fo context from a well considered response, and then make a pithy comment.

“Pulling a Nomad”

You heard it coined here first. In the future instead of actually responding to someone who’s Pulling a Nomad I’m just going to point out that you’re trying to Pull a Nomad on me.