americans and d day and 2nd war myth

[armati]

MYTH I: Heroic Americans with their British sidekicks won World War Two, while the Russian campaign was a sideshow.

REALITY: Although Western Lend-Lease and strategic bombing was highly useful, the reality is that the vast majority of German soldiers and airmen fought and died on the Eastern Front throughout the war.



On 75th anniversary of D-Day, time to debunk Hollywood myth it was largely a US invasion force.

Of 1,213 warships involved, 892 were British/Canadian; only 200 US.

Royal Navy in charge of Operation Neptune. Of 4,126 landing craft involved, 805 American, 3,261 British.

Two-thirds of the 12,000 aircraft involved in D-Day were RAF/RCAF.

Two-thirds of the troops landed on the beaches were British/Canadian.

Eisenhower was supreme commander but all his most senior officers in charge of land, sea and air were British

[mrswdk]

The UK gave a European superstate the ol’ one-two in 1944 and by god the UK will do so again in 2019.

[jusplay4fun]

The Omaha Beach front had the highest casualty count on June 6, 1944, if one disregards losses by airborne units:

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a4fcb82c2311fc9955d872382fd37958

Note that this source also reports higher casualty for Airborne units of the USA versus those of the UK.

[Bernie Sanders]

If it wasn't for the American military-industrial complex....The Soviet Union would of collapsed in the early 40s instead of the 80s.

Great Britian survived due to the Lend Lease policies of the greatest President ever, Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Go pound sand you fukn anti-Amerikkkan pukes!

[jimboston]

If it wasn't for the American military-industrial complex....The Soviet Union would of collapsed in the early 40s instead of the 80s.

Great Britian survived due to the Lend Lease policies of the greatest President ever, Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Go pound sand you fukn anti-Amerikkkan pukes!

This is true, but it’s also true that we (the US) didn’t lose or suffer as much as our allies.

This isn’t our ‘fault’ it’s just a fact, based primarily on geography.

There’s a saying/quote often attributed to Joseph Stalin (though I couldn’t confirm this in a quick search).... but paraphrasing it’s something like;
In the war against Germany...
Britain gave us Time
The United States gave Money
And Russia gave Blood

Regardless of who said it, it’s pretty fair.

Yes the US gave blood too and Britain gave money etc.

It took all three major powers along with many smaller allies. Trying to parse out ‘who sacrificed more’ or ‘who suffered more’ as a means of somehow minimizing the contributions of the other players is not really cool. Doing an analysis of history is fine... but doing so to be able to say “we did more”is childlike.

[HitRed]

American military-industrial complex

I would just like to reinforce how wonderful the AIC is. The military doesn't build cutting-edge equipment, they order and purchase it. The American businesses, computer scientist, engineers, metallurgist and machinist creat the wonderful weapons that give us the edge. Our success goes back to the Univerity system and the educational system overall.

[KoolBak]

MYTH: Armati makes relevant, poignant, thought provoking posts.

REALITY:

[armati]

jimboston Nowhere does the op parse out ‘who sacrificed more’ or ‘who suffered more’ as a means of somehow minimizing the contributions of the other players.

The op is simply pointing out the MYTH I: Heroic Americans with their British sidekicks won World War Two, while the Russian campaign was a sideshow.
This is perpetuated by hollywood and the gung ho nature of the states.

In any case, the american did "win the war" not because of their military contributions in Europe but by FDR relieving Britain of their assets,gold and taking the world reserve currency from Britain.
The British empire crumbled due to that war, and the american obviously became the dominant nation on the planet, so, the U.S. won, hands down.

[HitRed]

USA = 2 time world war champion

[armati]

"War is a Racket" Smedly Butler

Smedley Darlington Butler was a United States Marine Corps major general, the highest rank authorized at that time, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. Wikipedia
Born: July 30, 1881, West Chester, Pennsylvania, United States
Died: June 21, 1940, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
Years of service: 1898–1931
Battles and wars: Spanish–American War, MORE
Quotes
There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.
War is a racket. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
War is just a racket... I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else.

[mookiemcgee]

MYTH: Armati makes relevant, poignant, thought provoking posts.

REALITY:

f*ck'nright Eh!

[mookiemcgee]

USA = 2 time world war champion

[jimboston]

jimboston Nowhere does the op parse out ‘who sacrificed more’ or ‘who suffered more’ as a means of somehow minimizing the contributions of the other players.

The op is simply pointing out the MYTH I: Heroic Americans with their British sidekicks won World War Two, while the Russian campaign was a sideshow.
This is perpetuated by hollywood and the gung ho nature of the states.

In any case, the american did "win the war" not because of their military contributions in Europe but by FDR relieving Britain of their assets,gold and taking the world reserve currency from Britain.
The British empire crumbled due to that war, and the american obviously became the dominant nation on the planet, so, the U.S. won, hands down.

The OP is essentially denying the value of the contribution of the US and her Allies on D-Day.

I deny the OP’s “myth”.

Yes, Hollywood May glamorize the American contribution. Up until recently movies (from Hollywood) were produced with an eye only on the US.Domestic Box Office... so OF COURSE they will focus on the American view and American contribution.

Does this mean that some idiots are then unaware of the full/true history of the war. I guess.

The ignorance of people who don’t want to study or learn about history doesn’t make it some conspiracy that we need debunk. No intelligent person believes that the US “won the war” on it’s own.

If Russia wants to create its’ own version of Hollywood and produce movies that people want to see to make sure its’ side of the story is heard by the ‘people’ it’s certainly free to do so. No one is stopping them. I’m willing to bet that the history books and history taught in Russia to school children do more to minimize US involvement then out history books do to minimize Russian involvement.

When I visited Normandy several years ago the tour made a stop at “The Freedom Museum” in France. At the museum we were presented a video about the Normandy Invasion. Obviously this French museum did present the French View, and there was a lot in the movie about the “French Resistance” to Nazi occupation. They showed actual footage of the Normandy landings side-by-side with re-enacted footage French Resistance fighters blowing up bridges and communication lines. If you were to watch this, and not understand the scope of the invasion compared to the scope of French Resistance actives, you would’ve been led to believe that the only reason the invasion was successful was because the French Resistance had ‘paved the way’ by blowing up some bridges. Now, to be fair the French Resistance was important... but from my readings it appears their value was primarily for morale prior to the invasion; and then post invasion they had more direct value providing allied troops with intelligence and logistical support.

The point of this paragraph is simply to note that people are obviously going to focus on their own contribution and/or the contribution of their forefathers/countrymen.

It’s normal... get over it.

[mookiemcgee]

jimboston Nowhere does the op parse out ‘who sacrificed more’ or ‘who suffered more’ as a means of somehow minimizing the contributions of the other players.

The op is simply pointing out the MYTH I: Heroic Americans with their British sidekicks won World War Two, while the Russian campaign was a sideshow.
This is perpetuated by hollywood and the gung ho nature of the states.

In any case, the american did "win the war" not because of their military contributions in Europe but by FDR relieving Britain of their assets,gold and taking the world reserve currency from Britain.
The British empire crumbled due to that war, and the american obviously became the dominant nation on the planet, so, the U.S. won, hands down.

The OP is essentially denying the value of the contribution of the US and her Allies on D-Day.

I deny the OP’s “myth”.

Yes, Hollywood May glamorize the American contribution. Up until recently movies (from Hollywood) were produced with an eye only on the US.Domestic Box Office... so OF COURSE they will focus on the American view and American contribution.

Does this mean that some idiots are then unaware of the full/true history of the war. I guess.

The ignorance of people who don’t want to study or learn about history doesn’t make it some conspiracy that we need debunk. No intelligent person believes that the US “won the war” on it’s own.

If Russia wants to create its’ own version of Hollywood and produce movies that people want to see to make sure its’ side of the story is heard by the ‘people’ it’s certainly free to do so. No one is stopping them. I’m willing to bet that the history books and history taught in Russia to school children do more to minimize US involvement then out history books do to minimize Russian involvement.

When I visited Normandy several years ago the tour made a stop at “The Freedom Museum” in France. At the museum we were presented a video about the Normandy Invasion. Obviously this French museum did present the French View, and there was a lot in the movie about the “French Resistance” to Nazi occupation. They showed actual footage of the Normandy landings side-by-side with re-enacted footage French Resistance fighters blowing up bridges and communication lines. If you were to watch this, and not understand the scope of the invasion compared to the scope of French Resistance actives, you would’ve been led to believe that the only reason the invasion was successful was because the French Resistance had ‘paved the way’ by blowing up some bridges. Now, to be fair the French Resistance was important... but from my readings it appears their value was primarily for morale prior to the invasion; and then post invasion they had more direct value providing allied troops with intelligence and logistical support.

The point of this paragraph is simply to note that people are obviously going to focus on their own contribution and/or the contribution of their forefathers/countrymen.

It’s normal... get over it.

Oh yeah, well gold is the only true store of value, and Russian Hollywood is the best hollywood there is, they have stars like Ed Snowden and Oleg Popov. Russia has never done horrible things like America, they have never used castration to negotiate a hostage release, nor have they killed and imprisoned thousands of scientists for not agreeing that plants are communist.

[armati]

My mistake then, I guess everyone on cc knew full well the american forces were only 30% of the landings on June 6/44.

[mookiemcgee]

My mistake then, I guess everyone on cc knew full well the american forces were only 30% of the landings on June 6/44.

Admitting you were wrong is the first step bud!

[armati]

I will and do if ever I am.

But sure, I was unaware all of cc knew the americans were 30% of the d day landing.

I have absolutely no doubt you studied exactly that in your grade school special classes.

[mookiemcgee]

I will and do if ever I am.

But sure, I was unaware all of cc knew the americans were 30% of the d day landing.

I have absolutely no doubt you studied exactly that in your grade school special classes.

I guess the "grade school special classes" I went to were pretty good since your post was (as mentioned by others also) common knowledge to me.

Were you aware that Russia is a shithole country, and all Russians think American's are idiots even though Russia lost the cold war? Did you know Russian men are such bitches that they slap each other for sport?



Oh and since you have yet to figure out youtube, just click the link and watch the video... don't be confused by the fact that you aren't forced off to another website, or forced to open a new tab/window.

[jimboston]

I will and do if ever I am.

But sure, I was unaware all of cc knew the americans were 30% of the d day landing.

I have absolutely no doubt you studied exactly that in your grade school special classes.

1) You don’t need to know exact figures to understand the broader ideas and to realize / know / understand it was a group effort.

I couldn’t have told you the exact % of force breakdown, but I did/do know that the United States supplied a minority of bodies.


2) Our Canadian friends should take serious umbrage at your incorrect statement that “Americans were 30% of the D-Day Landing Forces”.
For too many years Canada’s contribution to the war has been neglected and forgotten because their men fell under the UK umbrella and therefore in early history books Canadians were counted as “United Kingdom” forces. While technically correct at the time this has created a situation where many (including yourself apparently) forget the Canadian contribution.

Now I’m pretty sure Canada is located in North America, and so unless you are misusing the term, Canadian forces are American forces. Therefore I think your percentage is incorrect. Now if you mean something else by the term “American” you might want to clarify that. We can’t be expected to read your mind, and if you feel like quibbling about historical details you might want to learn how to be precise with your language first.

Please apologize now and confirm your error. Thanks!


3) You would have no idea what I studied in grade school, middle school, or high school. You have no idea who I am or what school I, or anyone else here, went to. You also are ASSUMING that people here stopped learning after high school. That’s a pretty big assumption. I personally think that the majority of people in this forum are well educated and better informed than your average citizen of the U.S.A.

I think the problem your having isn’t that you’re really ‘wrong’ with your OP. I think the problem is that you’re presenting a “know-it-all” / “better-than-thou” attitude... and you’re lecturing us about/against an idea that most of us don’t really have. It’s like... why bother ‘ what makes you think you’re so smart.

If you are going to try to do this, you should pick a better subject and try to be less confrontational and condescending.

[jimboston]

Did you know Russian men are such bitches that they slap each other for sport?



Oh and since you have yet to figure out youtube, just click the link and watch the video... don't be confused by the fact that you aren't forced off to another website, or forced to open a new tab/window.

I’m not a fan of Russia. I have had dealings (social and business) with several Russians here in the US and have found the few I’ve dealt with the be arrogant asses. Though I know this doesn’t make all Russians arrogant asses, it does sour me to culture and maybe gives me a little anti-Russian bias.

That said, those slap fights don’t strike me as a ‘bitch sport’. It looks like it can be pretty rough. Not sure if there are weight classes or how it works. I think I’d do well against a few of those guys... but there are some in that video I would not want to trade slaps with. A few of those guys were beasts and I though I don’t know you, I doubt you’d standup to all of them. Just playing averages.

[Dukasaur]

My mistake then, I guess everyone on cc knew full well the american forces were only 30% of the landings on June 6/44.

This graphic, or some variation thereof, has been posted in every news medium on the planet in the last week, so it's not surprising that most people know the composition of the invasion.

Click image to enlarge.

Nonetheless, the composition of the landing is somewhat misleading. The Americans had larger reserves, which flooded into France after the landings. By the end of 1944 there were a lot more American forces in France than the other Allies. Just roughly from memory, by the beginning of the Second Ardennes Offensive, there were about a million American personnel in France, compared to about 300,000 British, 200,000 Canadian, 400,000 French, and a variety of other Allied forces including a full division of Poles and various minor units from many other countries.

Of course, everything on the Western Front is dwarfed by what was happening in the East. During the course of the war more than 80% of German casualties were on the Russian front, and correspondingly more than 70% of Allied casualties were Russians.

Then again, as noted, American industry was keeping everybody afloat. It's pointless to argue about who won the war. It would may have been lost without the incredible power of American industry, without the enormous sacrifice of Russia's manpower, or without the tenacity of the British in the early days.

[armati]

jimboston

"Now I’m pretty sure Canada is located in North America, and so unless you are misusing the term, Canadian forces are American forces. Therefore I think your percentage is incorrect"

Are you reading the post?

"Two-thirds of the troops landed on the beaches were British/Canadian. "op

"I have absolutely no doubt you studied exactly that in your grade school special classes."

"3) You would have no idea what I studied in grade school......"
Your right I dont, and had you followed the post you may have realized that statement was not directed to you.

".... isn’t that you’re really ‘wrong’ with your OP. I think the problem is that you’re presenting a “know-it-all” / “better-than-thou” "

No the info of the op is not incorrect, and its just a post, if you wanna take it as you did thats entirely up to you. How you get that I have no idea but oh well.
Its just a post that was pertinent to the d day ceremonies.

"snowflake" is a new expression to me, but I think we have a few around here.
You need to stop reading more into things than there is, just read them and take it for what it is.
Just an idea.

[armati]

Duk

Your #s are dif from the #s Ive found, but otherwise your 100% correct from what I know.
Dont forget the underground, as far as Im concerned they were unreal courageous.

My op was just about the landing, your right about the "flood" of men came after the landing.

My father landed a couple days after june 6th, his group went north along the French coast to liberate the ports all the way to Holland from there into Germany.

[armati]

ok I give up, I have checked a few dif sites and calculations, they are dif. from what I originally posted.
most are saying the americans were outnumbered by the brits and canadians but not by the #s I first posted.

So I concede.
I guess I will have to have more than 1 source when I post.

[Dukasaur]

ok I give up, I have checked a few dif sites and calculations, they are dif. from what I originally posted.
most are saying the americans were outnumbered by the brits and canadians but not by the #s I first posted.

So I concede.
I guess I will have to have more than 1 source when I post.

Noting and appreciating your humility.



Yeah, comparing different sources is always a good idea. There's always different interpretations, what to leave in, what to leave out.