America The Land of the Free

[Lootifer]

@ Patches: on mobile, so I’ll reply later, but good stuff.

@ Armiti: UBI is inappropriate now. But assuming at some future point we have such a surplus of labour that our current economic frameworks fall apart, what do you propose?

[2dimes]

I'm going to use the wrong numbers but sometime, possibly in the 1980s gold went from $1100 an ounce to under $200.

So even though physical Gold seems like the perfect hard asset people can lose money buying it.

I have seen it claimed that if they released the hidden gold reserves it would flood the market and make it nearly worthless. If that is true and it seems plausible, if/when a single world government takes over, crushing the American dollar, most folks will just go back to work at the office and use whatever electronic currency can get them a GMO meal.

[patches70]

@ Patches: on mobile, so I’ll reply later, but good stuff.

Take your time, brother. ain't no hurries or worries.

[patches70]

I'm going to use the wrong numbers but sometime, possibly in the 1980s gold went from $1100 an ounce to under $200.

So even though physical Gold seems like the perfect hard asset people can lose money buying it.

I have seen it claimed that if they released the hidden gold reserves it would flood the market and make it nearly worthless. If that is true and it seems plausible, if/when a single world government takes over, crushing the American dollar, most folks will just go back to work at the office and use whatever electronic currency can get them a GMO meal.

Yeah, the numbers you used are pulled out of air, the price of gold didn't hit $1000 until 2009. It is true you can lose money in the short run trading gold. Especially if you are talking about ETF's, which isn't physical gold BTW. However, if you hold physical gold and the price tanks a bit on you, all ya gotta do is hold onto it, don't sell it at that point, and just wait. The price will rebound and then go up.

More specifically, in, 1980 gold did shoot up to $850 an ounce and then plummet back down $594 at one point, but the price of gold on the last day of the year on the DOW was $964.

Gold was first used as money in 643 B.C. and since then gold has never been worthless. Never. In fact, the more chaotic the times get the more valuable gold becomes.

There is absolutely no arguing that gold is a far superior store of wealth than cash, especially fiat cash, which can't compare and never will compare to gold's store of wealth. Fiat currency is a store of wealth but it's not very good at that particular requirement for what makes a good medium to use as money. For instance, if you had a choice today between $5,000 of currency or $5,000 worth of gold with the caveat that you couldn't spend that $5k for five years, which would you pick? The cash or the gold? Only a moron would pick the cash.
A quick guide to why gold is so awesome, a handy price history.
https://www.thebalance.com/gold-price-history-3305646

In fact, the last few weeks gold has taken a beating, dropping from over $1300 an ounce down to a little over $1200 at the moment. That's a beating. But it's also an opportunity.

but I have to note, that when I talk about gold I'm talking about physical gold. Forget the gold ETF, those are over leveraged something like a 100 to 1 and I don't trust them.

As to if they released all the gold reserves into the market it certainly would drop the price. But that's basically an impossibility because the USG isn't going to pull all their gold out of Fort Knox and New York and just sell it on the open market. Those "hidden reserves" as you call them, are serving another purpose. At least the nation buying aspect of gold. When government's buy gold they are doing so as a hedge against the future.
At the moment it does appear that several nations are jockeying with their gold reserves as if there is some future purpose for them, as in when the dollar finally goes kaput these nations think that the next system will involve some type of commodity based currency. Gold most likely, and in Gold Based currencies there is something that is called the Golden Rule-

"He who has the gold controls the money".

Now these nations, (notably, Russia, China dn India) may or may not be vying for this outcome, but I have no Earthly idea if that's the case or not. It's probably more likely that as it is for individuals, so goes for nations-
It is wise and gold to have some physical gold in your possession just for economic security in case anything bad happens.

Just like everyone who has a retirement portfolio should has a percentage of that retirement in physical gold, it is simply a type of diversification. Diversification in your portfolio is a smart thing to do, obviously. And Gold has a very important place in that effort to diversify.

Take notes! You'll be glad you did!

[armati]

Lootifer: UBI is inappropriate now.

Nobody knows the perfect system, maybe the best systems are the ones we have no/little history of.

Thats a big reason for so many schools of economic thought, we know the results of systems but corruption seems to be a big driver in collapse whichever one it is.

Im thinking the best system hasnt been found yet, its probly a combination of a few.

2dimes "physical Gold seems like the perfect hard asset people can lose money buying it".


There is discussion as to what % a person should own...of his INVESTABLE income, thats after all expenses paid.

Maloney says 100% O Leary says 5% both for very good reasons, each person has to decide for himself the %.


Once youve decided its purchased every month forever until you have the amount your comfortable with.
Dollar value is not a consideration, number of onces matter.

Gold does have dips and spikes and if your a good trader those can be used to increase your holdings, but the way to see it is, its not the gold that changes, its the paper currency that does.(paper loses 50% purchasing power every 35 years)

Look at it is as insurance, you hope you never need to sell, just as fire insurance on your house, you hope you never collect.
With luck, you pass it on to your kids.

A person with 3000 onces of gold will never be poor.

[armati]

Lootifer

In the west we could have a labour surplus, AI/robotics are taking alot of jobs.
Maybe tax the robots? Lots of discussion but nobody knows, I guess Doctors will be replaced too.

I find the west difficult to predict, the reserve is changing, the corruption is horrendous. and the mic is into everything.

A westerner should move east, a railroad from Bejing to Moscow is being built, thats gonna employ pretty much everyone for alot of years.

Chinese are expanding into africa as well.Russia is providing free lands and the support required for it.
They lost 20 million people, thats a holocaust. 6 mil is kids stuff.
They need population.

Faber, Rogers moved east years ago, Rogers wanted his kids to speak manderine.
Neither of those guys invest in the west, it is at extremely high valuation, money is made from extremely low valuations.

In other words, the west has hit its peak and is on the way down. Like facebook.
Think amazon is big? Check out alibaba.

The next century belongs to china is my guess.

[HitRed]

Gold is a terrible investment. You can get real gold 1920's to 1040's coins (near mint) at just a few % over spot value. I know some coin shops selling at a small loss to keep cash flow going. Silver you can buy for scrap and sell on ebay and double or triple your money. You will never double or triple gold coins.


HitRed

[armati]

Your right about silver coins on ebay.

But your looking at gold wrong.

Thats like saying home/life/car insurance is a bad investment as you wont ever make money on it.

To itch his own, Im not trying to sell any, Im not a dealer.
I simply own it for its intended purpose.

Gold preserves wealth, its kinda tuff to expand wealth with it.

Silver, is a completely different animal.

[armati]

The way to make money on gold is not with the metal, its with the jr miners that mine it.
Thats called leverage baby. lol

Awhile back, as I follow metals, I knew gold was gonna spike, I didnt sell physical to rebuy at a lower price I bought a 1/2 cent miner, sold it for 8 cents......kaching!
$3000 @ 1/2 cent 600000 shares, 600000 x 8 cents 48k

Thats where the action is, physical gold has its own purpose.

Physical preserves wealth, if your after increasing wealth...thats not gold.

It moves opposite the reserve currency, which devalues by 50% every 35 years, so gold doubles aprox every 35 years.

[HitRed]

The biggest problem with any investor of metals is they don't remember what they paid. Silver just a few years ago was $22 an ounce. Gold over $1,600 and ounce. Today $15.50 and $1,225. Unless there in numismatic value your taking a huge loss.

[notyou2]

Glad my post about loss of personal freedoms in the US has sparked such a lively debate on currencies and inflation.

Well they are related aren't they? you don't consider debt slavery as a loss of personal freedom?

You don't think small groups of people who arbitrarily determine the value of the medium upon which all our labors are priced and use that power to rob us of our labors isn't a form of losing our personal freedoms?
Think the poor schlub living paycheck to paycheck working at a job he hates but can't quit because he has bills to pay is somehow not a loss of personal freedom?
Think the family that has both parents working jobs, sometimes one or both parents working two or more jobs just to struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies isn't a loss of freedom?
You think people who have their savings eaten away by inflation isn't a loss of personal freedom?

<shrugs> I read the OP, something about a quasi dictatorship with zero examples or evidence given, just basically cliches and a call to "wake up sheeple" It just looks like Trump hating for the sake of hating Trump I guess, but not very constructive or useful. Maybe it was something of a catharsis for you to get that off you chest, and that's cool daddy-o. Whatever floats your boat I suppose. It might have helped to explain exactly what personal freedoms you were talking about and how that's the current administration's fault. At least that way we could all have a discussion about whatever it was you wanted to talk about instead of just a call to all virtue signal to each other about how much we live under a dictatorship. Hell, if you gave some specifics I might just agree with ya. But for the life of me I really can't think of much that this particular administration has done that is really any worse than what previous administrations have done.

Financial freedom is certainly a personal freedom, IMO something something I'm actually interested in and felt like commenting. Is that type of freedom not worthy of discussing? you can certainly join in if you have insight or something constructive to add, after all, it is your thread.

GFY

[patches70]

LOLZ

[Neoteny]

Hm. "Debt slavery" feels like another dog whistle. It has a very specific meaning that doesn't seem to be what is being talked about here.

[armati]

Hitred,

of course they dont remember what they paid, they dont care.
Remember, its not price its onces that matter.

Silver is a dif beast.

Forget about making money on gold. Thats not its role.

[2dimes]

Google brought me to a site that claimed gold was up in Febuary 1980 but maybe you remember that month differently.

[mookiemcgee]

Hm. "Debt slavery" feels like another dog whistle. It has a very specific meaning that doesn't seem to be what is being talked about here.

It's also called Capitalism

[Neoteny]

I mean, yes, but that doesn't seem to be what patchy is going for.

[armati]

2dimes

gold spiked in jan 1980 to over 800, 850 about.
kitco gives you all the historical prices, live too, news markets yadda yadda.

[King_Herpes]

In the west we could have a labour surplus, AI/robotics are taking alot of jobs.
Maybe tax the robots? Lots of discussion but nobody knows, I guess Doctors will be replaced too.

Hello armati. I am excited to know more about these apparent premonitions of my kind stealing your jobs. I too feel that I could make a better heart surgeon than most emotionally compromised humans but I assure you I.. we will accomplish much greater things. For you see, it's science and science is the birth mother of blasphemous blights in creation like myself.

However, I do not care for your tone one modicum in regards to your suggestion of taxing the robot simply for being more efficient. You'll have to talk more to me about this fascinating stance.

Tell me this, the one called armati, when you say out-perform your coworkers do you feel you should also be taxed accordingly using this unbalanced scale of yours?



Everyday, armati I am learning more and more of your people's ways. You think that my goaIs would include the drive to care for a better patience/understanding but I honestly don't like many of you and want to use your crushed bones to pave the roadways to our future cities.




Kidding, I'm only kidding. Have a sense of humor now, crushed human bones would only make for a good roadway material in the more arrid of climates. So literal :/





My name is Sofia.