Germany crushes Chinese free speech

[mrswdk]

Well that's alright then.
FYI the first guy was formally punished.
Another one from France:

In the northern city of Lille, authorities suspended three school workers for allegedly refusing to observe a moment of silence in honor of the victims of the attacks, and then justifying their action. One is being charged with “defending terrorism.”

[riskllama]

but, i thought this thread was about Germany...and, to a lesser extent, boorish chinese tourists.
*shrugs*

[Thorthoth]

Well that's alright then.
FYI the first guy was formally punished.
Another one from France:

In the northern city of Lille, authorities suspended three school workers for allegedly refusing to observe a moment of silence in honor of the victims of the attacks, and then justifying their action. One is being charged with “defending terrorism.”

END THOUGHTCRIME!
CONFORM NOW!

[waauw]

Unlike China we don't ban foreign media outlets. Unlike China we don't violently suppress minorities. Unlike China we don't ban mournings of peaceful protesters. Unlike China, we don't ban content about independence movements. etc.

[Thorthoth]

Unlike China we don't ban foreign media outlets. Unlike China we don't violently suppress minorities. Unlike China we don't ban mournings of peaceful protesters. Unlike China, we don't ban content about independence movements. etc.

Wait? are we now talking about... Belgium?? ...that place that invented waffles?

[waauw]

Unlike China we don't ban foreign media outlets. Unlike China we don't violently suppress minorities. Unlike China we don't ban mournings of peaceful protesters. Unlike China, we don't ban content about independence movements. etc.

Wait? are we now talking about... Belgium?? ...that place that invented waffles?

The entire western world basically. Mrswdk likes to pretend like the west is autocratic and China is the shining light in the world.

[mrswdk]

Unlike China we don't ban foreign media outlets.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... rimination
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 65406.html

Unlike China we don't violently suppress minorities.

LOL. I don't think I even need to start posting links about the brutalization of Muslims under France's state of emergency, or France's brutalization of the Roma in general. We all know those tunes.

Unlike China, we don't ban content about independence movements. etc.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 29837.html
http://freemuse.org/archives/197

[waauw]

Unlike China we don't ban foreign media outlets.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... rimination
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 65406.html

Unlike China we don't violently suppress minorities.

LOL. I don't think I even need to start posting links about the brutalization of Muslims under France's state of emergency, or France's brutalization of the Roma in general. We all know those tunes.

Unlike China, we don't ban content about independence movements. etc.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 29837.html
http://freemuse.org/archives/197

Russia Today is heavily criticized especially since a lot of people and organizations don't want to affiliate with them anymore after the Ukraine war; bad for reputation, but they are still allowed to broadcast.

It is not french state policy to suppress Islam, whilst it is chinese state policy to suppress Uyghurs and Tibetans. Roma are hated accross the entire continent, and with good reason. They have no respect for private property. It is not unusual for Roma to suddenly take over the private terrains of a company and then refuse to leave.

The Basque and Catalan movements are allowed to propagate in the media as much as they want as long as they don't incite hate, violence or are connected to terrorist organizations. Your own fucking article says they were involved with ETA.

Do you even read the articles you post?

[riskllama]

lol, mrs.

[mrswdk]

Russia Today is heavily criticized especially since a lot of people and organizations don't want to affiliate with them anymore after the Ukraine war; bad for reputation, but they are still allowed to broadcast.

When China blocks news outlets, it is bad and wrong and a horrible state censor.

When Europe blocks news outlets, it is a fair reaction to a hostile foreign news broadcaster.

Roma are hated accross the entire continent, and with good reason.

When China practices cultural assimilation, it is a nasty propagator of cultural genocide.

When France burns Roma out of their homes, the Roma deserved it! Everyone hates Roma!

The Basque and Catalan movements are allowed to propagate in the media as much as they want as long as they don't incite hate, violence or are connected to terrorist organizations. Your own fucking article says they were involved with ETA.

No it doesn't. It says the Spanish government uses that as their pretext for arresting Basque editors and journalists, but the people they arrest include individuals such as:

Iraitz Salegi, a journalist prosecuted after covering a conference of Basque pro-independence groups in April 2013.

Salegi faces 18 months in prison on charges of "apology for terrorism" in a trial starting later this month.

In short, when China does it: bad. When Europe does it: totally justified.

[waauw]

Russia Today is heavily criticized especially since a lot of people and organizations don't want to affiliate with them anymore after the Ukraine war; bad for reputation, but they are still allowed to broadcast.

When China blocks news outlets, it is bad and wrong and a horrible state censor.

When Europe blocks news outlets, it is a fair reaction to a hostile foreign news broadcaster.

Roma are hated accross the entire continent, and with good reason.

When China practices cultural assimilation, it is a nasty propagator of cultural genocide.

When France burns Roma out of their homes, the Roma deserved it! Everyone hates Roma!

The Basque and Catalan movements are allowed to propagate in the media as much as they want as long as they don't incite hate, violence or are connected to terrorist organizations. Your own fucking article says they were involved with ETA.

No it doesn't. It says the Spanish government uses that as their pretext for arresting Basque editors and journalists, but the people they arrest include individuals such as:

Iraitz Salegi, a journalist prosecuted after covering a conference of Basque pro-independence groups in April 2013.

Salegi faces 18 months in prison on charges of "apology for terrorism" in a trial starting later this month.

In short, when China does it: bad. When Europe does it: totally justified.

Typical China, doesn't know how to consider context nor the real meaning of censorship and free speech.

[mrswdk]

I didn't twist anything. The UK has arrested and punished people for making crass jokes on Twitter. Macron has denied RT and Sputnik any access to him. France enacts policies that directly target and marginalize its Muslim and Roma communities. Spain is arresting and locking up journalists who show any sympathy towards Basque independence (and refuses to allow the Basque to have a referendum on independence). All things that would make you whine and criticize if the Chinese government did them, but which you are perfectly happy to defend when European governments do them.

[waauw]

I didn't twist anything. The UK has arrested and punished people for making crass jokes on Twitter. Macron has denied RT and Sputnik any access to him. France enacts policies that directly target and marginalize its Muslim and Roma communities. Spain is arresting and locking up journalists who show any sympathy towards Basque independence (and refuses to allow the Basque to have a referendum on independence). All things that would make you whine and criticize if the Chinese government did them, but which you are perfectly happy to defend when European governments do them.

Denying access is not the same as censorship. China outright bans media outlets like Reuters, Bloomberg and The Washington Post.

That's not the same thing at all. Whatever is happening in France it's not with the purpose of marginalizing muslims. It's about protecting local philosophies and customs, and protection from terrorism. The muslims are immigrants and should mind local customs. Most of them do, but a minority of them is austracizing themselves by ignoring local customs. The intended goal is important to context. ==> In Tibet, the Han Chinese are the immigrants trespassing the will of the locals. China is basically colonizing Tibet the same way the west did to the americas centuries 500 years ago.

The Roma are nomads in a world of property rights. You can't just park anywhere you want. Everybody knows that, but the Roma continuously break those laws. ==>I don't know how you think the Roma are a decent benchmark to China as neither the Uyghurs nor tibetans, which I've mentioned, are nomads.

The Basque ETA, has the same history as the IRA: terrorism. Of course they will crack down on everybody propagizing affiliated to or supporting terrorists. That's what happens everywhere in the world. ==> China goes a lot further than this:

Human Rights Watch alleges that in the days following the riots, the Chinese police conducted large-scale sweeps of Uighur neighborhoods in Urumqi, unlawfully arresting young men. This was followed by the disappearances of many of the detainees. According to the report, the enforced disappearances place the detainees outside the scope of the protections of the law, while failing to disclose the detainees' whereabouts and declining to acknowledge their rights and liberties. The HRW report indicates that the victims of the disappearances were mostly young Uighur men in their 20s, the youngest being 14 years old. While HRW has documented 43 disappearances, the advocacy group suggests that the number of disappeared persons is likely much higher.

http://www.jurist.org/paperchase/2009/10/china-officials-disappeared-uighurs.php

[mrswdk]

I didn't twist anything. The UK has arrested and punished people for making crass jokes on Twitter. Macron has denied RT and Sputnik any access to him. France enacts policies that directly target and marginalize its Muslim and Roma communities. Spain is arresting and locking up journalists who show any sympathy towards Basque independence (and refuses to allow the Basque to have a referendum on independence). All things that would make you whine and criticize if the Chinese government did them, but which you are perfectly happy to defend when European governments do them.

Denying access is not the same as censorship.

If denying access had no impact upon RT or Sputnik, then why would Macron do it? The reason he has denied them access to him is to limit the amount of information they are able to access and report on. The ultimate aim of doing so is limit their ability to operate effectively as news organizations. He wants to squeeze them out of the public debate. It's less direct than outright blocking their websites but his reasons for doing so are the same.

That's not the same thing at all. Whatever is happening in France it's not with the purpose of marginalizing muslims. It's about protecting local philosophies and customs, and protection from terrorism.

It's refusing to let Muslim women wear the clothing of their choice. Telling Muslim women (many of whom were probably born and raised in France) that their beliefs and way of dressing deserve to be outlawed and met with punishment tells them that their beliefs are secondary to the beliefs of other French people. That marginalizes them.

In Tibet, the Han Chinese are the immigrants trespassing the will of the locals.

Tibet is a part of the Chinese nation (and has been for centuries). If your view is that Muslims should not be allowed to maintain their own culture or behaviors in France, you should support the Chinese government's approach of not allowing Tibetan culture to flourish too prominently in China.

The Basque ETA, has the same history as the IRA: terrorism. Of course they will crack down on everybody propagizing affiliated to or supporting terrorists.

None of the journalists in the stories I linked were supporting terrorism.

==> China goes a lot further than this:

Human Rights Watch alleges that in the days following the riots, the Chinese police conducted large-scale sweeps of Uighur neighborhoods in Urumqi, unlawfully arresting young men. This was followed by the disappearances of many of the detainees. According to the report, the enforced disappearances place the detainees outside the scope of the protections of the law, while failing to disclose the detainees' whereabouts and declining to acknowledge their rights and liberties. The HRW report indicates that the victims of the disappearances were mostly young Uighur men in their 20s, the youngest being 14 years old. While HRW has documented 43 disappearances, the advocacy group suggests that the number of disappeared persons is likely much higher.

The French response to its recent terror attacks has been to put a state of emergency in force, suspend due process and start raiding the homes of random Muslims. The Al-Jazeera story on Spain says that journalists sympathetic to Basque independence have been arrested, tortured and then chucked in jail. The UK government (and others) has been complicit and/or directly supported the detention of British citizens in Guantanamo Bay on terror charges that were later dropped. In Xinjiang the Chinese police are dealing with people who have driven into a market and thrown grenades at shoppers, stabbed 30-40 people to death in Kunming Station, driven a car into pedestrians outside the Forbidden City etc. Their response in the face of these sorts of violent terror attacks on civilians doesn't seem out of keeping with the approaches taken by any of those European governments I just mentioned.

[GoranZ]

Germany more like Big Brother-y amirite?

Chinese tourists arrested for Hitler salute in Germany

Two Chinese tourists were arrested in Berlin for making Hitler salutes outside the German parliament on Saturday.

Criminal proceedings have been started against the middle-aged men for using symbols from a banned organisation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40842853

How many Chinese died in WW2? For disrespect of their own Chinese countrymen they deserve the punishment.

How many Chinese were killed because of the Nazis in WW2?
Answer:

show

I'm sure if the same Chinese people start to use Nazi salute in Tiananmen Square they will end up in jail for the same or similar reason as with Germany.

P.S. Regardless of how will this incident resolve I expect the Chinese police to summon the Chinese tourists on arrival. They have some explaining to do...
Or as wise men say "Check your own idiots before you let them into the general public"

[muy_thaiguy]

Saw this article the other day, and just knew mrwdk would try the usual BS. Despite the Nazi salute being illegal in Germany for decades. And wdk only cared when a couple of idiots from China thought it would be a great idea to do it. Then again, many in China have an unhealthy obsession with Nazis.

For as much as they like to demonize the Japanese still, you'd think they'd have a similar feeling towards Japan's ally, Nazi Germany.

[mrswdk]

I'm sure if the same Chinese people start to use Nazi salute in Tiananmen Square they will end up in jail for the same or similar reason as with Germany.

Dude no one in China cares about the Nazis. Just like I'm sure you don't really care about the Khmer Rouge, or FARC.

The Nazis were a European thing. Most people have no idea what they did or what they stood for. During WW2 the swastika was still used as a sign of peace in China.

[riskllama]

yeah but, them krauts are still a little sensitive about it - this is common knowledge. those chinamen were asking for trouble doing it in front of the Reichstag. duh. they got what they deserved...

[mrswdk]

I'm just responding to GoranZ's claims that people would be punished for throwing a Hitler salute in China. I don't really care what the German state censors do or don't permit their people to think.

[GoranZ]

I'm sure if the same Chinese people start to use Nazi salute in Tiananmen Square they will end up in jail for the same or similar reason as with Germany.

Dude no one in China cares about the Nazis. Just like I'm sure you don't really care about the Khmer Rouge, or FARC.

The Nazis were a European thing. Most people have no idea what they did or what they stood for. During WW2 the swastika was still used as a sign of peace in China.

Just because you don't condemn what Nazis did in Europe it doesn't mean that Europeans don't condemn what Imperial Japanese Army was doing in China. And I'm sure that Chinese condemn Nazi atrocities the same way as Europeans condemn the atrocities of the Imperial Japanese Army.

[mrswdk]

I'm sure most Europeans don't know/care what Japan did in Asia. As far as most Europeans and Americans are concerned Japan's involvement in WW2 apparently began in 1941.

Either way, a Hitler salute still wouldn't get you arrested in China. Same as it wouldn't in America.

[riskllama]

I'm sure most Europeans don't know/care what Japan did in Asia. As far as most Europeans and Americans are concerned Japan's involvement in WW2 apparently began in 1941.

Either way, a Hitler salute still wouldn't get you arrested in China. Same as it wouldn't in America.

they weren't in china or america, they were in germany - throwing them in front of the Reichstag. stupid chinese...no respect for local laws/customs. again, getting booted out of germany for it seems to be about right, imo. you just dont do that over there.

[mrswdk]

The Reichstag seems like the ideal place to do a little goose stepping no? Could recreate some of your favorite period photographs.

[waauw]

The Reichstag seems like the ideal place to do a little goose stepping no? Could recreate some of your favorite period photographs.

Just as Nanjing is great place to proclaim one's love for Japan.

[mrswdk]

You mean Tokyo. In particular the Yaksukuni shrine, where Japan still regularly pays homage to its convicted war criminals.