[OFFICIAL] Lion King Mafia - Town Scarred as Mafia Wins!

[ga7]

Vote Count :

Tim (1) Dakky
Skoff (2) Flores, Mandy
Kwan (1) Hotshot
DDS (2) Kwan, Mitch
No lunch (1) Samlen
Samlen (1) Fircoal
Firacle (1) Tim
Masket (1) Skittles

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch!
Also, f*ck off mandy

[Skoffin]

Well, I was all ready for a scrap, but the case against me seems to have been dropped. Or at least not responded to yet. But it seems Flores is now doing the exact thing I was accused of being scum for. So FOS I guess.

I don't have scum reads as of yet, just town reads - or rather people I would be against lynching at this stage. I'm currently against voting for skittles, chu, hotshot, mandy, sam and masket. I'm open to all the others for the moment.

While the odds are that a town is usually lynched day 1... that's not always the case, and the town can afford to lose someone a lot more than scum can. Besides that though, the most important part of trying for a day 1 lynch is information, see how people react to pressure and each other. That way at least the power roles aren't going into night 1 completely blind, and can try to make their actions target appropriate people. Otherwise, why have a day 1 at all, why not just start with a night phase?

Huh, not only is this logical and makes sense, but it feels different from the HotShot that I've seen in other games. No not because he's making sense but because it felt like with other games he had to hide around more, this post feels somewhat open. File HotShot in my town list for now.

I thought it worth mentioning that I am also putting Hotshot on my town list- He is literally playing the opposite of how he does as scum - as scum he barely posts, very on the fence, doesn't take strong stances or give much opinions; whereas now he's posted more than he normally does, and outright came out against someone and posted his opinions - so I'm concluding he's town for now

I thought I was playing the same as I have the past few games... I guess I am unaware of my own scum/town tells, because it doesn't seem to me that I'm posting all that often or making many great arguments so far this game. I'm wondering though if either of those posts are by scum trying to butter me up, especially that post by Skoffin.

Kwan still hasn't posted anything worthwhile though, so my vote will remain on him for now.

You're a rather suspicious type of fellow, aren't you?

P.S. Sorry for the tone, but this game needs Wing, Yoshi, Mets and other people who actually care enough about Mafia to insult people over it. You may call it an opinion, I call it the results of the experiment at this point.

Wing would certainly be good to have around; I'm eager to scrap with him one day. He seems the sort that you could go to blows with and not be forever offended for it.

[mandalorian2298]

2 week deadline , get active peeps!

No. 16 player has not yet a) posted; b) been correctly replaced on the list of players. We have one guy who doesn't want to post anything that doesn't fit into a fortune cookie out of fear he will incriminate himself; another who doesn't want to post anything that doesn't fit into a fortune cookie or even READ anything that has paragraphs in it; at least two guys who think that Day 1 i s the Day of Rest and if they post anything usefull then God will smite the Cop to punish them for their arrogance; and a whole bunch of people who are blatantly submarrining by posting the bare minimum despite the fact that they have proven in the past that THEY are capable of posting a decent size coherent, Mafia posts, either because their Mafia ambitions are limited to signing up for the game and seeing their name on the players list or because they know that they can get away with it since there is not enough active and attentinve people in this game to lynch their ass for it.

So, what kind of activity are we looking for?

Maybe someone could do a vote count?

P.S. Sorry for the tone, but this game needs Wing, Yoshi, Mets and other people who actually care enough about Mafia to insult people over it. You may call it an opinion, I call it the results of the experiment at this point.

I have replaced master bush, as benga has read the PM but not confirmed I have prodded him. The first page has now been updated too though I think that reasoning is a bit much to launch a tirade against the mod for daring to ask people to be active and imposing a deadline.

There is a vote count on the previous page and there have only been 4 vote changes since, I am not going to hand hold you guys and provide a vote count every page, I am sure you can see that nothing material has happened in terms of the vote counts.

You have a deadline now so deal with it, I know you didn't like it and imposed your will in your game when players complained about lack of deadline, well in my one there is now a deadline and it is designed to bring activity to the game as opposed to letting it die..

Nag, a very small portion of my rant was directed to mods and most of it was directed to players who sign up for games just to sign up while knowing full well that they don't have time or interest in playing the game. Also, I never mentioned the deadline in my rant because I agree that it's mod's perogative. I just don't see players who post once a week caring enough to about the game to be prodded into action by it.

I mena, I am accusing Skoffin of submarrining (which she is) while at the same time I realize that she (while submarrining) is among the more active half of players.

The only part of my rant which I now realize was wrong, is lumping dakky's change of tactic in the "problematic" cathegory. Dakky is an active player and he changed his game to adapt to the way that Mafia is currently played on CC (the way that Mafia is currently being played is what really frustrates me) and the fact that style doesn't suit me is my problem not his. Sorry Dakky, keep doing your thing and don't mind me.

[Fircoal]

chu my dear, for getting you mixed up with MM you have my apologies, the only thing i can say in my behalf is that ive been ridiculously spacey lately, like staring into the emptiness for 2 hous spacey heh, but what i said still holds true

I actually don't know who should be more offended by the mix-up - myself or Fircoal.

me -.-

Pffft, I knew it was an 'on-the-fence' post before I even wrote the damn thing! Unfortunately there's no real way of getting out of that, it's genuinely how I feel about a Day 1 lynch - both sides have a point.



I don't accept posting "for the sake of posting" though, especially when there's 3 or 4 players currently not saying much at all *coughSkoffincough*

Yes it was an on-the-fence post, and it wasn't so much as that but that you seemed to try to be on both sides if you could. While I have seen enough of your playstyle to know that, you seem to like to do that if you can, I don't think it's a good idea.

Also I don't get why everyone is calling out Skoffin. Maybe it's because you're not playing with her in other games but she's by far the most active player in BNI mafia. Maybe her not posting as much here in comparison is some sort of notable shift but I'd rather stick with someone who I has a good chance to be useful to town, rather than lynch them for "submarining."

This last part of Flores' quote IMO shows the flaw in the logic behind calling Day 1 lynch "random". There is such thing as scum tells. How many there are to be found depends on Scum's skill and will they be found and interpreted correctly depends on Town's skill, but the Town is far from helpless during Day 1. It's like that American saying about trespassers: "It's not the matter of 'if' - it's a matter of shooting at your bushes enough times."

Nice post. My counterpoint to the scumtell part is that I go with the assumption that scum is good enough to not throw around scumtells and I expect day 1 lynches to end with usually whoever accidentally makes an 'off' post. Maybe I'm wrong to assume scum is too good to leave scumtells this early and that's why ragian died, but it seems like a position he coulda taken as town just as easily. We are in a better position to find scumtells since there is a dead person, but pr's still have no info so i'm still wary of leaving a lynch purely to scumtells.

If scum were good enough to not give scumtells then there'd be no point to this game. This game lives off of finding scumtells. They can happen any time anywhere, to not look for them and pounce on them to the best of one's ability would be lazy.

Secondly, a disclaimer. If there is scum to be found among the following players: Mitch, dakky and Tim; then I fear that I am not going to be of much use in finding him out. They don't post much and keep their posts short.

People don't need to post ton of text (like you just did) to point something over or there. I finally understood that being active and posting a lot (or posting less but with longer posts) just makes you more scummy. I'm not a good player and it's something I know, so pardon me for trying to change my play style in last two games. When I did post a lot, I'd get lynched D1 and now when I'm trying to post less, it's also bad. Come on.

Personally I find posting more is more ideal. I think the bigger problem is the way that you approach things. Way too often you approach the game with an ideal of what is best for you. The thing is town is most interested in what is best for town. This is best highlighted in Civ Mafia. You started causing war to anyone and everyone just to keep yourself alive. However with the large amount of power roles that town had and the negative effects of war, this was a bad idea for the town. Sure you don't want to be lynched and town doesnt' want to be lynched. But doing things that are bad for the town just because you don't want to be lynched is almost always a terrible idea. If you get too focused on what gets you killed and not enough on what sniffs out the scum then it's no surprise that you're going to end up getting killed a lot. Because you'll be acting like a scumster.

And even then, if people wanted to not be a target, you can simply lurk/submarine on days 1 and just wait it out.

If that becomes the meta then you react to it. You shouldn't be looking at this and throwing your hands up in the air thinking it's impossible, you should look at this and realize that the lurkers should be lynched.

I prefer actual concrete evidence to where a power role is utilized to his job. Not only does this give us actual leads, but it helps people actually draw up conclusions on who's full of shit. This is something that I don't think can be accomplished on Days 1 unless you've played with the same group of people for thousands and thousands of games.

But you can still look for scumtells even without information. If that wasn't the case then what is a game between mafia and townies? It'd be nothing, but it's clearly not. It can be done. You don't need thousands of games, you just need to play some games and get an idea of it, it isn't nearly as hard as you think it is.

Since we got one scum down I agree that chances to lynch scum are pretty low and I agree it could be better to go for no lynch D1. We've done our scum kill and we can go for it without mislynching a town member. From another point of view, we can lynch scum and have them minus two as of N1... unless scum has few kills per night, which I doubt. So no lynch seems legit now.

Except that it changes none of the logic behind lynching right now. Sure maybe if the numbers got really slainted it'd be worthwhile but that isn't the case here.

show

I Said this before but I can vouch for Skoffin in BNI mafia. I also agree with what she said. IF she were scum why would she make it so apperiant that she wasn't reading. What scum is stupid enough to yell to everyone "I DIDN'T READ BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE!"? None. That's why when we look for skimming we look for it in what they missed, rather than taking jokes at face value.

The whole 'go along with the rest of the herd' sounds a little bit softclaim vanilla townie and/or typical mitch speak.

Never doubt mitch when it comes to softclaiming. While mitch isn't very good at playing he does seem to have this habit of softclaiming his role.

Sorry I am in a busy time at work so will try to be more active. I personally hate D1 but will keep working on activity saince im chosing to play along.

So if you're going to "play along" then do you have anything to say? You're not really playing along if all you're posting is this. This feels very much like a post made just to make it look like you posted something.

What are the chances that nag/ga7 would put in a third party role in this mafia? I can't think of any characters in the first Lion King movie that would be not aligned to either Simba or Scar.

Just by virtue of there being 16 players, I can't see how there's room for 3rd Party. And as you say, the line is pretty well defined in the story.
I don't consider this likely at all, but there is the off-chance nag included that dude lion from the sequel (whose family were banished). Starts off slightly creepy before turning good (because Simba's daughter is hot hot hot).

HUGE If if he's even present at all, but he's the only one I can think of who could fit a 3rd Party role.

I was thinking our Day Vig could be a lone 3rd Party role but after reading the scene again it surely 99% has to be Mufasa as town?

You can totally make a 16 player game with a 3rd party. Just because someone likes to make a game with no 3rd party, 3 mafia and 13 townies doesn't mean that everyone does

I would agree on lore that there would not be a third party even crossing into the new version of Lion Guard.(yay toddlers)

Don't even get me started into how garbage the Lion Guard is. Shallow characters, crappy plots, cliches everywhere. The animation is hideous. UGH. That said they did have a hyena there that could be a 3rd party member. But I doubt anything Lion Guard is appearing here. Seems like a low-effort post too.


Speaking of 3rd Parties why are we talking about 3rd Parties? How is that at all relavant to where we stand at the moment. We're trying to find the baddies, not sit around and pull on the existance of those that may or may not be against us. We have no way of knowing so mulling on it is useless when we have no information. FOS: Everyone talking about 3rd Parties. Come on peeps. Actually focus on finding scum and save this fluff for later (or never.)

While the odds are that a town is usually lynched day 1... that's not always the case, and the town can afford to lose someone a lot more than scum can. Besides that though, the most important part of trying for a day 1 lynch is information, see how people react to pressure and each other. That way at least the power roles aren't going into night 1 completely blind, and can try to make their actions target appropriate people. Otherwise, why have a day 1 at all, why not just start with a night phase?

Huh, not only is this logical and makes sense, but it feels different from the HotShot that I've seen in other games. No not because he's making sense but because it felt like with other games he had to hide around more, this post feels somewhat open. File HotShot in my town list for now.

I thought it worth mentioning that I am also putting Hotshot on my town list- He is literally playing the opposite of how he does as scum - as scum he barely posts, very on the fence, doesn't take strong stances or give much opinions; whereas now he's posted more than he normally does, and outright came out against someone and posted his opinions - so I'm concluding he's town for now

I thought I was playing the same as I have the past few games... I guess I am unaware of my own scum/town tells, because it doesn't seem to me that I'm posting all that often or making many great arguments so far this game. I'm wondering though if either of those posts are by scum trying to butter me up, especially that post by Skoffin.

Kwan still hasn't posted anything worthwhile though, so my vote will remain on him for now.

eh to me it still feels different from how you played in Indigo League Mafia. You seemed a lot more skimmy and out of the think of it in there.


Going onto new thoughts. I feel like the Skoffin wagon feels a bit weird to me. While I do trust Mandy due to the way that he's been acting, I'm curious why Flores picked Skoffin of all people. It's not like she's even been the only one to submarine in this game. There was also the note from Masket that I mentioned above and a vote from Kwan. I don't really get the vote by Kwan and would very much like him to explain himself. Due to the past it feels a bit like Flores tried to go for an "easy" target, but didn't realize that it wouldn't actually be that easy.

That said I don't see much difference in Masket's playstyle. It comes off as close to being what it was like in Indigo league although with less waving around his role like a nicompoop


Dj, Kwan, Tim I would like to hear more from the two of you in particular. It felt like both of your posts were more on the fluff side. Benga needs to exist.. .w.


I'm not the biggest fan of the cases against either Skoffin, or Masket, as I described above but I don't think the people who made them seem scummy either. As it stands I feel the most suspcious out there are those who are not posting, or are just posting filler. The easiest way to stop town is to post nothing. Town lives off of information, and posting nothing gives no information.

P.S. Sorry for the tone, but this game needs Wing, Yoshi, Mets and other people who actually care enough about Mafia to insult people over it. You may call it an opinion, I call it the results of the experiment at this point.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't really care for being insulted nor do I play this game to satify my need to get into a hissy fight. Despite how much certain posters may post I it doesn't really help if their posts just make others (like myself) want to post less. Just because you like getting into blows doesn't mean others do.

Honestly that's not what this game needs. We had a system that worked before but oddly enough it seems people are against it.

and a whole bunch of people who are blatantly submarrining by posting the bare minimum despite the fact that they have proven in the past that THEY are capable of posting a decent size coherent, Mafia posts, either because their Mafia ambitions are limited to signing up for the game and seeing their name on the players list or because they know that they can get away with it since there is not enough active and attentinve people in this game to lynch their ass for it.

There probably are people who fit into those boxes. And there are others that don't. I think you'll end up finding all sorts of reasons why people don't post much. Personally it's not my ideal to submarrine and I always have the goal of making lofty posts, but often it builds up on me because I don't post my thoughts right away and then it gets harder to do so. I probably make it even worse for myself because I usually only post thoughts that are relavent to myself rather than the whole everything.

[benga]

confirm!

Will read it asap.

[DirtyDishSoap]

1. Also I don't get why everyone is calling out Skoffin. Maybe it's because you're not playing with her in other games but she's by far the most active player in BNI mafia. Maybe her not posting as much here in comparison is some sort of notable shift but I'd rather stick with someone who I has a good chance to be useful to town, rather than lynch them for "submarining."

2. If scum were good enough to not give scumtells then there'd be no point to this game. This game lives off of finding scumtells. They can happen any time anywhere, to not look for them and pounce on them to the best of one's ability would be lazy.

3. Personally I find posting more is more ideal. I think the bigger problem is the way that you approach things. Way too often you approach the game with an ideal of what is best for you. The thing is town is most interested in what is best for town. This is best highlighted in Civ Mafia. You started causing war to anyone and everyone just to keep yourself alive. However with the large amount of power roles that town had and the negative effects of war, this was a bad idea for the town. Sure you don't want to be lynched and town doesnt' want to be lynched. But doing things that are bad for the town just because you don't want to be lynched is almost always a terrible idea. If you get too focused on what gets you killed and not enough on what sniffs out the scum then it's no surprise that you're going to end up getting killed a lot. Because you'll be acting like a scumster.

4. If that becomes the meta then you react to it. You shouldn't be looking at this and throwing your hands up in the air thinking it's impossible, you should look at this and realize that the lurkers should be lynched.

5. But you can still look for scumtells even without information. If that wasn't the case then what is a game between mafia and townies? It'd be nothing, but it's clearly not. It can be done. You don't need thousands of games, you just need to play some games and get an idea of it, it isn't nearly as hard as you think it is.

6. Except that it changes none of the logic behind lynching right now. Sure maybe if the numbers got really slainted it'd be worthwhile but that isn't the case here.

7. I Said this before but I can vouch for Skoffin in BNI mafia. I also agree with what she said. IF she were scum why would she make it so apperiant that she wasn't reading. What scum is stupid enough to yell to everyone "I DIDN'T READ BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE!"? None. That's why when we look for skimming we look for it in what they missed, rather than taking jokes at face value.

8. Never doubt mitch when it comes to softclaiming. While mitch isn't very good at playing he does seem to have this habit of softclaiming his role.

9. So if you're going to "play along" then do you have anything to say? You're not really playing along if all you're posting is this. This feels very much like a post made just to make it look like you posted something.

10. You can totally make a 16 player game with a 3rd party. Just because someone likes to make a game with no 3rd party, 3 mafia and 13 townies doesn't mean that everyone does

11. Don't even get me started into how garbage the Lion Guard is. Shallow characters, crappy plots, cliches everywhere. The animation is hideous. UGH. That said they did have a hyena there that could be a 3rd party member. But I doubt anything Lion Guard is appearing here. Seems like a low-effort post too.

Speaking of 3rd Parties why are we talking about 3rd Parties? How is that at all relavant to where we stand at the moment. We're trying to find the baddies, not sit around and pull on the existance of those that may or may not be against us. We have no way of knowing so mulling on it is useless when we have no information. FOS: Everyone talking about 3rd Parties. Come on peeps. Actually focus on finding scum and save this fluff for later (or never.)

12. eh to me it still feels different from how you played in Indigo League Mafia. You seemed a lot more skimmy and out of the think of it in there.

Going onto new thoughts. I feel like the Skoffin wagon feels a bit weird to me. While I do trust Mandy due to the way that he's been acting, I'm curious why Flores picked Skoffin of all people. It's not like she's even been the only one to submarine in this game. There was also the note from Masket that I mentioned above and a vote from Kwan. I don't really get the vote by Kwan and would very much like him to explain himself. Due to the past it feels a bit like Flores tried to go for an "easy" target, but didn't realize that it wouldn't actually be that easy.

That said I don't see much difference in Masket's playstyle. It comes off as close to being what it was like in Indigo league although with less waving around his role like a nicompoop


Dj, Kwan, Tim I would like to hear more from the two of you in particular. It felt like both of your posts were more on the fluff side. Benga needs to exist.. .w.


I'm not the biggest fan of the cases against either Skoffin, or Masket, as I described above but I don't think the people who made them seem scummy either. As it stands I feel the most suspcious out there are those who are not posting, or are just posting filler. The easiest way to stop town is to post nothing. Town lives off of information, and posting nothing gives no information.

13. I couldn't disagree more. I don't really care for being insulted nor do I play this game to satify my need to get into a hissy fight. Despite how much certain posters may post I it doesn't really help if their posts just make others (like myself) want to post less. Just because you like getting into blows doesn't mean others do.

Honestly that's not what this game needs. We had a system that worked before but oddly enough it seems people are against it.

14. There probably are people who fit into those boxes. And there are others that don't. I think you'll end up finding all sorts of reasons why people don't post much. Personally it's not my ideal to submarrine and I always have the goal of making lofty posts, but often it builds up on me because I don't post my thoughts right away and then it gets harder to do so. I probably make it even worse for myself because I usually only post thoughts that are relavent to myself rather than the whole everything.

Had to break it down point by point. Long post on your end.

1. Cool, good for her for being active in BNI. How does this excuse her from this game?

2. Kind of the point to submarining, least likely to give out scum tells. Kind of the point isn't it? To present less of a target.

3. That defeats the purpose of your argument for defending someone submarining if you think it's more ideal to post more. Not sure why you're flip flopping on this, excusing one player over the other.

4. Yet here you are saying we shouldn't lynch Skoffin because of it. Again, whats your point?

5. Sure, and the one that isn't giving out any scum tells whatsoever is the one not posting. I prefer having roles to give leads, different strokes for different folks.

6. I'm not touching this subject anymore than I already have.

7. Again, one game shouldn't excuse someone over the other. As for the latter, the whole point is looking for scum tells, yet we're suppose to overlook idiotic ones? Okay...So it's the let mitch be mitch mentality.
People are people though and make mistakes. Shit happens, not going to go any further into that.

8. Yeah....

9. Would you rather have him submarine then?

10. Agreed.

11. See 10.

12. I can't add anything on MM. He's from Spamalot though so he's coo.

13. Anyone that feels the need to hurl insults to debate or to antagonize players are just ass hats I'll probably ignore throughout my tenure. I don't see the point of it. Not hard to not be a dick and point out faulty arguments.

14. No comment.

[Skittles!]

I don't agree with you Fircoal, and what you have posted makes me extremely suspicious of you. DDS brings up some valid points against your post, esp. in regard to your defence of Skoffin. While I don't get why Skoffin constantly gets harassed in games for being perceived as inactive, your defence really strikes me as you trying to clutch onto her in an odd way.

You are also trying to input the ideas of how scum should play and how town should play, which isn't always necessarily the same every single game. Each person has their own way of playing an alignment, which is why scum tells are not always scum tells. You asked why Skoffin would state why she isn't always reading, if she were scum that would make it too apparent for town. You discount this move because you believe scum should be played a certain way, in many situations. But in a small mafia community like this, if you play scum the same way every time, then everyone will be able to tell what alignment every player is from day 1. To not slightly alter your play every game, means you will be too predictable.

Another point. You discounting the idea of third party is hugely suspicious. Knowing the mechanics of the game you are playing is extremely useful for town, and if there were a group other than traditional town/mafia, then it's extremely important to know so town can proceed best. The more information town has, the better chance they will win. You know this Fircoal, so why are you discounting the discussion? I know you are going to say something about how many players there are and how traditional 1/4 set ups go, but maybe nagerous and ga7 decided to change things a little.

So now I think Fircoal is scum, and I'm not quite sure about Skoffin. If those two are scum buddies again like Pokemon, then we need to scrutinise their posts and positions on discussions.

unvote, vote fircoal, FOS Skoffin, FOS MM

[Skittles!]

I don't have scum reads as of yet, just town reads - or rather people I would be against lynching at this stage. I'm currently against voting for skittles, chu, hotshot, mandy, sam and masket. I'm open to all the others for the moment.

This i think is the most telling thing for me. I am suspicious of 1/3 of the people you list, as well as you. It's like you just picked 4 of the most seemingly town-aligned players in the game and then mixed in your buddies. Why do you think these people are town-aligned, or why are you against voting for them?

It's nice to say something but it would be better if you provided reasoning for what you said. Don't give me tucked Skoffin.

[Skittles!]

Sorry for the third post in a row (I'm typing on my Phone).

I meant "don't leave me tucked" lol

[madmitch]

I think we should take a close look at Mandy and Flores, them two has been thick as thieves from the get go,Why they are after Skoffin I just don't see it.I voted against Kwanton for his rant against Skoffin.I tookthat as a personal attack and wondered why the mod didn't do anything as per rule 15,I will change my vote when I see a better choice

[kwanton]

@mitch the mod wouldn't dare cut the best player here

@fircoal my argument is the same as Mandy's was. I agree with him

Can we put this no lunch idea to rest? We get info from a lynch. At this point I don't even care who it is. We should just lynch someone before deadline

[Minister Masket]

I don't have scum reads as of yet, just town reads - or rather people I would be against lynching at this stage. I'm currently against voting for skittles, chu, hotshot, mandy, sam and masket. I'm open to all the others for the moment.

This i think is the most telling thing for me. I am suspicious of 1/3 of the people you list, as well as you. It's like you just picked 4 of the most seemingly town-aligned players in the game and then mixed in your buddies. Why do you think these people are town-aligned, or why are you against voting for them?

It's nice to say something but it would be better if you provided reasoning for what you said. Don't give me tucked Skoffin.

So the four are yourself (lol), Hotshot, mandy and Samlen? Just because HotShot is playing differently doesn't grant his an automatic townie card. Then again he's bloody always scum in my games so statistically he has to land townie sooner or later.

And besides, I was one of the ones who "picked on" Skoffin for being quiet, so not sure where you've got buddies from, at least in our case.

[kwanton]

EBWOP No lynch*

[Skittles!]

So the four are yourself (lol), Hotshot, mandy and Samlen? Just because HotShot is playing differently doesn't grant his an automatic townie card. Then again he's bloody always scum in my games so statistically he has to land townie sooner or later.

And besides, I was one of the ones who "picked on" Skoffin for being quiet, so not sure where you've got buddies from, at least in our case.

You don't believe I am town? Is there anything I've done particularly that seems scummy to you? I am playing similarly to how I've played every game since I've come back - trying to find out mechanics, trying to get discussion going, trying to find links. Both games I've played I have been able to pick scum from Day 1, so I'm hoping third time is the charm.

Trying to gain town cred is still trying to gain town cred, I still suspect you.

[benga]

After we got 1 scum down, avoiding lynch on day 1 is a big NO. Why aren't you changing your mind?

On a side note, do you see yourself as someone who left any scumtells?
Acording to you, scum are expected not to leave any.

That's an amazing shot by whoever the Vigilante is, but I can't help feeling majorly confused about how exactly Ragian was nailed on as a valid target.

Just had a quick read back and the only two major things Ragian really did so far was agree with my Day 1 Lynch post and be suspicious of mandy for his DDS targeting:

----

If the reasoning was the stance on mandy, then why was DDS (who pushed way harder) not the target? Or myself who held a similar view?
It makes me think it was either a completely random choice that seriously lucked out, or there's some more day action shenanigans going on behind the scenes.

Whatever the case, it makes me think that mandy is town. I can't see Ragian pushing a fellow scum partner quite that hard so early on.

I think that whoever took the shot knew Ragian pretty well and was able to discern his behavior as scummy in some way. As for Mandy, while I'll agree it's not likely that Ragian would push a lynch on a scummate so early, I'm not discounting it since it's something I would've done myself.

I've played a lot of mafia and there are only a couple of reasons I could see a no-lynch not being good on day 1: The scum consistently give themselves away or scum do not know their partners on day 1 (It's happened to me before, but I don't know if that would happen here). Unless you can firmly convince me of either I'm going to
Vote No-Lynch

[Fircoal]

1. Also I don't get why everyone is calling out Skoffin. Maybe it's because you're not playing with her in other games but she's by far the most active player in BNI mafia. Maybe her not posting as much here in comparison is some sort of notable shift but I'd rather stick with someone who I has a good chance to be useful to town, rather than lynch them for "submarining."

2. If scum were good enough to not give scumtells then there'd be no point to this game. This game lives off of finding scumtells. They can happen any time anywhere, to not look for them and pounce on them to the best of one's ability would be lazy.

3. Personally I find posting more is more ideal. I think the bigger problem is the way that you approach things. Way too often you approach the game with an ideal of what is best for you. The thing is town is most interested in what is best for town. This is best highlighted in Civ Mafia. You started causing war to anyone and everyone just to keep yourself alive. However with the large amount of power roles that town had and the negative effects of war, this was a bad idea for the town. Sure you don't want to be lynched and town doesnt' want to be lynched. But doing things that are bad for the town just because you don't want to be lynched is almost always a terrible idea. If you get too focused on what gets you killed and not enough on what sniffs out the scum then it's no surprise that you're going to end up getting killed a lot. Because you'll be acting like a scumster.

4. If that becomes the meta then you react to it. You shouldn't be looking at this and throwing your hands up in the air thinking it's impossible, you should look at this and realize that the lurkers should be lynched.

5. But you can still look for scumtells even without information. If that wasn't the case then what is a game between mafia and townies? It'd be nothing, but it's clearly not. It can be done. You don't need thousands of games, you just need to play some games and get an idea of it, it isn't nearly as hard as you think it is.

6. Except that it changes none of the logic behind lynching right now. Sure maybe if the numbers got really slainted it'd be worthwhile but that isn't the case here.

7. I Said this before but I can vouch for Skoffin in BNI mafia. I also agree with what she said. IF she were scum why would she make it so apperiant that she wasn't reading. What scum is stupid enough to yell to everyone "I DIDN'T READ BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE!"? None. That's why when we look for skimming we look for it in what they missed, rather than taking jokes at face value.

8. Never doubt mitch when it comes to softclaiming. While mitch isn't very good at playing he does seem to have this habit of softclaiming his role.

9. So if you're going to "play along" then do you have anything to say? You're not really playing along if all you're posting is this. This feels very much like a post made just to make it look like you posted something.

10. You can totally make a 16 player game with a 3rd party. Just because someone likes to make a game with no 3rd party, 3 mafia and 13 townies doesn't mean that everyone does

11. Don't even get me started into how garbage the Lion Guard is. Shallow characters, crappy plots, cliches everywhere. The animation is hideous. UGH. That said they did have a hyena there that could be a 3rd party member. But I doubt anything Lion Guard is appearing here. Seems like a low-effort post too.

Speaking of 3rd Parties why are we talking about 3rd Parties? How is that at all relavant to where we stand at the moment. We're trying to find the baddies, not sit around and pull on the existance of those that may or may not be against us. We have no way of knowing so mulling on it is useless when we have no information. FOS: Everyone talking about 3rd Parties. Come on peeps. Actually focus on finding scum and save this fluff for later (or never.)

12. eh to me it still feels different from how you played in Indigo League Mafia. You seemed a lot more skimmy and out of the think of it in there.

Going onto new thoughts. I feel like the Skoffin wagon feels a bit weird to me. While I do trust Mandy due to the way that he's been acting, I'm curious why Flores picked Skoffin of all people. It's not like she's even been the only one to submarine in this game. There was also the note from Masket that I mentioned above and a vote from Kwan. I don't really get the vote by Kwan and would very much like him to explain himself. Due to the past it feels a bit like Flores tried to go for an "easy" target, but didn't realize that it wouldn't actually be that easy.

That said I don't see much difference in Masket's playstyle. It comes off as close to being what it was like in Indigo league although with less waving around his role like a nicompoop


Dj, Kwan, Tim I would like to hear more from the two of you in particular. It felt like both of your posts were more on the fluff side. Benga needs to exist.. .w.


I'm not the biggest fan of the cases against either Skoffin, or Masket, as I described above but I don't think the people who made them seem scummy either. As it stands I feel the most suspcious out there are those who are not posting, or are just posting filler. The easiest way to stop town is to post nothing. Town lives off of information, and posting nothing gives no information.

13. I couldn't disagree more. I don't really care for being insulted nor do I play this game to satify my need to get into a hissy fight. Despite how much certain posters may post I it doesn't really help if their posts just make others (like myself) want to post less. Just because you like getting into blows doesn't mean others do.

Honestly that's not what this game needs. We had a system that worked before but oddly enough it seems people are against it.

14. There probably are people who fit into those boxes. And there are others that don't. I think you'll end up finding all sorts of reasons why people don't post much. Personally it's not my ideal to submarrine and I always have the goal of making lofty posts, but often it builds up on me because I don't post my thoughts right away and then it gets harder to do so. I probably make it even worse for myself because I usually only post thoughts that are relavent to myself rather than the whole everything.

Had to break it down point by point. Long post on your end.

1. Cool, good for her for being active in BNI. How does this excuse her from this game?

2. Kind of the point to submarining, least likely to give out scum tells. Kind of the point isn't it? To present less of a target.

3. That defeats the purpose of your argument for defending someone submarining if you think it's more ideal to post more. Not sure why you're flip flopping on this, excusing one player over the other.

4. Yet here you are saying we shouldn't lynch Skoffin because of it. Again, whats your point?

5. Sure, and the one that isn't giving out any scum tells whatsoever is the one not posting. I prefer having roles to give leads, different strokes for different folks.

6. I'm not touching this subject anymore than I already have.

7. Again, one game shouldn't excuse someone over the other. As for the latter, the whole point is looking for scum tells, yet we're suppose to overlook idiotic ones? Okay...So it's the let mitch be mitch mentality.
People are people though and make mistakes. Shit happens, not going to go any further into that.

8. Yeah....

9. Would you rather have him submarine then?

10. Agreed.

11. See 10.

12. I can't add anything on MM. He's from Spamalot though so he's coo.

13. Anyone that feels the need to hurl insults to debate or to antagonize players are just ass hats I'll probably ignore throughout my tenure. I don't see the point of it. Not hard to not be a dick and point out faulty arguments.

14. No comment.

@ the case on Skoffin, look I'm not trying to say "Skoffin is most definetly town, we shouldn't lynch her because she was active in this one game!", I'm trying to say that because she's been active in BNI I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. Clearly if she continues to post nothing then yes it'll be suspcious. But her activity has already improved and from what she hinted at it was medical related.

3. I'm not trying to flip flop. I very much believe it's ideal to post more. The difference is that I believe that Skoffin will post more in the future and that it was a one off thing. Maybe that's misplaced faith but I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

7. I'm not saying to overlook things but in cases of good players if someone does something really stupid on day 1, I'm going to assume spam rather than meaningful notes on their allignment.

9. No! My point is that he says he's playing along but he just does nothing. I want to see some actual conversation from him and see something more than "Hey I'm here!". In some cases posting useless fluff is the best way to scumarine. It looks like you're there but you're not doing anything. So I would like to see him do something.

13. Same. I mean it's not like there's not enough mafia related things to bicker about.

I don't agree with you Fircoal, and what you have posted makes me extremely suspicious of you. DDS brings up some valid points against your post, esp. in regard to your defence of Skoffin. While I don't get why Skoffin constantly gets harassed in games for being perceived as inactive, your defence really strikes me as you trying to clutch onto her in an odd way.

You are also trying to input the ideas of how scum should play and how town should play, which isn't always necessarily the same every single game. Each person has their own way of playing an alignment, which is why scum tells are not always scum tells. You asked why Skoffin would state why she isn't always reading, if she were scum that would make it too apparent for town. You discount this move because you believe scum should be played a certain way, in many situations. But in a small mafia community like this, if you play scum the same way every time, then everyone will be able to tell what alignment every player is from day 1. To not slightly alter your play every game, means you will be too predictable.

I agree that there are different ways of playing an alignment? It is possible that someone would state something like that as scum if they were risky enough and felt it would be glossed over enough. (Which to be honest I'm not and sometimes it's easy to think too much about what oneself might do.) But I don't think it's anything indictative of someone being scum. Most likely it's actually a alignment-neutral, but I don't see how it would be something that a scum would more likely say than a town member. To me it feels like a joke a town member would be more comfortable doing. Sure it probably means very little and Skoffin's play is different than my own, but it's most certainly not a scum tell. If you think it's a scumtell please tell me why because I'm not seeing it.

Another point. You discounting the idea of third party is hugely suspicious. Knowing the mechanics of the game you are playing is extremely useful for town, and if there were a group other than traditional town/mafia, then it's extremely important to know so town can proceed best. The more information town has, the better chance they will win. You know this Fircoal, so why are you discounting the discussion? I know you are going to say something about how many players there are and how traditional 1/4 set ups go, but maybe nagerous and ga7 decided to change things a little.

I never discounted the idea of there being a third party. That's not my point. My point is at this stage of the game randomly guessing what we have in the game adds nothing. I'd go bring up quotes of my past games but honsetly I'm lazy. I've been consistently not very fond of discussing theme and make up and always opt to go for alignment based analysis. This is nothing new. I feel like conversations like "is there a 3rd party? What roles are here?" don't add anything in most cases and are nice places for people who are trying to submarine to jump onto so that they can contribute nothing but still look like they're contributing something.

Yes it'd be nice to know if there is a 3rd party, but how are we supposed to find that out now? Furthermore what help is it going to be Day 1? Like for me this is a day by day thing. The later it is the more sense it makes to depack the theme. At day 1 we have no clues at all and unlike with alignment it's not like what people say is going to reveal much more. (Unless you go into softclaim hints which I guess can be worthwhile but it also helps the scum know a lot more which... isn't a good thing.) That isn't to say that it's always not useful, because it worked well in Civ, and Indigo League, but it is suspcious to me when someone focuses a lot more on the theme, and nothing on the alignments of the players, when that's what's more important at the moment.

So the four are yourself (lol), Hotshot, mandy and Samlen? Just because HotShot is playing differently doesn't grant his an automatic townie card. Then again he's bloody always scum in my games so statistically he has to land townie sooner or later.

And besides, I was one of the ones who "picked on" Skoffin for being quiet, so not sure where you've got buddies from, at least in our case.

You don't believe I am town? Is there anything I've done particularly that seems scummy to you? I am playing similarly to how I've played every game since I've come back - trying to find out mechanics, trying to get discussion going, trying to find links. Both games I've played I have been able to pick scum from Day 1, so I'm hoping third time is the charm.

Trying to gain town cred is still trying to gain town cred, I still suspect you.

Dude you didn't even vote benga in civ I mean I get what you say before and I believe you, but hold your horsies there a bit. That said I do agree that what you're doing is good for town. I mean you're wrong atm, but the I said it before the more discussion the better.

[dakky21]

Mandy & Chu, I understand you don't like how I play it, but know I am still learning how to play each role or alignment.

As Skittles pointed out, scumtells aren't always scumtells and each game is to be played differently to avoid meta. For example I feel both Tim and Mitch are playing ordinary as always while town and I'm adjusting my tactics not to be lynched D1 like in previous games. So you'll all need to learn new meta about me, sorry if that is wrong.

[mandalorian2298]

P.S. Sorry for the tone, but this game needs Wing, Yoshi, Mets and other people who actually care enough about Mafia to insult people over it. You may call it an opinion, I call it the results of the experiment at this point.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't really care for being insulted nor do I play this game to satify my need to get into a hissy fight. Despite how much certain posters may post I it doesn't really help if their posts just make others (like myself) want to post less. Just because you like getting into blows doesn't mean others do.

Honestly that's not what this game needs. We had a system that worked before but oddly enough it seems people are against it.

Well I don't really care of playing any sort of game in which other players need to be begged to play. If my choice is between a nice, polite guy who doesn't care about the game and a jerk who is going to trash-talk and call me names in an effort to win; then I am choosing the first guy for tea and discussing the delicacy of my feelings and the second guy to play Mafia with. There is nothing wrong with having tea if you like tea, but it's not why I join a game of Mafia.

[madmitch]

I like a good cup of tea .

[Fircoal]

P.S. Sorry for the tone, but this game needs Wing, Yoshi, Mets and other people who actually care enough about Mafia to insult people over it. You may call it an opinion, I call it the results of the experiment at this point.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't really care for being insulted nor do I play this game to satify my need to get into a hissy fight. Despite how much certain posters may post I it doesn't really help if their posts just make others (like myself) want to post less. Just because you like getting into blows doesn't mean others do.

Honestly that's not what this game needs. We had a system that worked before but oddly enough it seems people are against it.

Well I don't really care of playing any sort of game in which other players need to be begged to play. If my choice is between a nice, polite guy who doesn't care about the game and a jerk who is going to trash-talk and call me names in an effort to win; then I am choosing the first guy for tea and discussing the delicacy of my feelings and the second guy to play Mafia with. There is nothing wrong with having tea if you like tea, but it's not why I join a game of Mafia.

Well I don't really care of playing any sort of game in which I get insulted. Not everyone has a strong constitution.

[Samlen]

After we got 1 scum down, avoiding lynch on day 1 is a big NO. Why aren't you changing your mind?

On a side note, do you see yourself as someone who left any scumtells?
Acording to you, scum are expected not to leave any.

That's an amazing shot by whoever the Vigilante is, but I can't help feeling majorly confused about how exactly Ragian was nailed on as a valid target.

Just had a quick read back and the only two major things Ragian really did so far was agree with my Day 1 Lynch post and be suspicious of mandy for his DDS targeting:

----

If the reasoning was the stance on mandy, then why was DDS (who pushed way harder) not the target? Or myself who held a similar view?
It makes me think it was either a completely random choice that seriously lucked out, or there's some more day action shenanigans going on behind the scenes.

Whatever the case, it makes me think that mandy is town. I can't see Ragian pushing a fellow scum partner quite that hard so early on.

I think that whoever took the shot knew Ragian pretty well and was able to discern his behavior as scummy in some way. As for Mandy, while I'll agree it's not likely that Ragian would push a lynch on a scummate so early, I'm not discounting it since it's something I would've done myself.

I've played a lot of mafia and there are only a couple of reasons I could see a no-lynch not being good on day 1: The scum consistently give themselves away or scum do not know their partners on day 1 (It's happened to me before, but I don't know if that would happen here). Unless you can firmly convince me of either I'm going to
Vote No-Lynch

For clarification, I do not expect any scum tells to appear on day 1. What I've seen happen on most day 1's is that people joke and then bicker around until one person is unfortunate to accrue enough 'scummy' lines that people jump on them and lynch. The problem with this is that we don't have enough info on day 1 to know if those tells are actually scummy or just a poorly worded sentence. It usually ends up being the latter and we end up with a lynched town for no reason. Taking Ragian as an example, his actions could be seen as that of a scum or town. We were just lucky that he was scum. As for me leaving any scumtells, I'd like to think I play the same no matter what alignment I get. Haven't gotten a non-town role here on CC, so none of you can verify that. People are so eager to find scummy behavior on day 1 that they'll find it in anything.

[Minister Masket]

So the four are yourself (lol), Hotshot, mandy and Samlen? Just because HotShot is playing differently doesn't grant his an automatic townie card. Then again he's bloody always scum in my games so statistically he has to land townie sooner or later.

And besides, I was one of the ones who "picked on" Skoffin for being quiet, so not sure where you've got buddies from, at least in our case.

You don't believe I am town? Is there anything I've done particularly that seems scummy to you? I am playing similarly to how I've played every game since I've come back - trying to find out mechanics, trying to get discussion going, trying to find links. Both games I've played I have been able to pick scum from Day 1, so I'm hoping third time is the charm.

Trying to gain town cred is still trying to gain town cred, I still suspect you.

I'm pretty sure other players in the past have tried to justify their play-style from how they did in other games and got completely jumped on for it for playing 'meta'.
Plus I've always found it a tad presumptuous to out-and-out say "I am town" when under zero pressure.

That all being said I can't deny that I don't think you're playing scummy. That being said, reading scumtells was never my strong suit.

Since we have a deadline, Imma Unvote, Vote Tim because I'm pretty sure he's been not so much hiding as tunnelling under the radar ever since the Kill Scene - behaviour I would fully expect from someone allied with Ragian.

@nag - there you see. If you'd used my countdown method, you wouldn't be getting these complaints about the deadline.

[benga]

@ sam
I beg to differ, even if we misslynch we still get info from that, from no lynch we get nothing
I rather be proactive and try something then wait to be slaughtered
vote sam

others that I am interested to get rid off are kwan and DJ, latter especially, no contribution is hurting us more than possible town power role

[mandalorian2298]

@ sam
I beg to differ, even if we misslynch we still get info from that, from no lynch we get nothing
I rather be proactive and try something then wait to be slaughtered
vote sam

others that I am interested to get rid off are kwan and DJ, latter especially, no contribution is hurting us more than possible town power role

Since the Skoffin cause doesn't seem popular at the moment, I too will move to the contestant number 2.

unvote vote Samlen

[Skoffin]

Mandy, out of interest, how come you have never said anything regarding flores? I ask because you took umbrage at my activity levels and felt that a suitable reason to lynch me, but that notion hasn't crossed your mind with flores- who at this point should be more suspicious than me considering she accused me of doing something that she had just been doing herself, and has now gone to doing that exact thing again. That thing that is good enough to lynch me but not her. What gives? Multiple people in this game had gone inactive yet a few people seem to be singling me out. Soz but I don't get it.

I don't have scum reads as of yet, just town reads - or rather people I would be against lynching at this stage. I'm currently against voting for skittles, chu, hotshot, mandy, sam and masket. I'm open to all the others for the moment.

This i think is the most telling thing for me. I am suspicious of 1/3 of the people you list, as well as you. It's like you just picked 4 of the most seemingly town-aligned players in the game and then mixed in your buddies. Why do you think these people are town-aligned, or why are you against voting for them?

It's nice to say something but it would be better if you provided reasoning for what you said. Don't give me tucked Skoffin.

It's not so much I think they are all town, but that I think I'll be able to more accurately tell what they are by the next day - they are currently more useful alive, so I'd prefer to weed out from others first.
In chu's case, since you mentioned you thought it suspicious the way he spoke about third parties- if anything that makes me think he's more likely town, because last time he was a themed scum he was all cool with wasting time talking about the theme, now he's against it.