Tzor: Greatest Living Catholic?

[warmonger1981]

I'm more interested in the esoteric side. Like why God gave specific measurements for the Tabernacle or the symbolism of the two pillars of Solomon Temple called Jachin and Boaz. Or the Seal of Solomon. People can debate on the pigs and food but I'm more into what the Church won't talk about that's in the Bible. Even why some books were kept out of the Bible like the Gospel of Judas or the significance of Enoch. Is it the Son of God or the Sun of God? Panspermia and obelisks. Or St.Peters square being a sundial. The Council of Nicea or Vatican Two and it's repercussions to Orthodox Christianity. I like the guts and meat. You guys are feasting on the excrements of religious philosophy.

The Cheese and The Worms- that's the book for you. By Carlo Ginzburg.

I did a quick search. It looks somewhat interesting. If we're going back in history I'm more of a Gian Lorenzo Bernini fan. Very esoteric in his works.

[DoomYoshi]

I'm more interested in the esoteric side. Like why God gave specific measurements for the Tabernacle or the symbolism of the two pillars of Solomon Temple called Jachin and Boaz. Or the Seal of Solomon. People can debate on the pigs and food but I'm more into what the Church won't talk about that's in the Bible. Even why some books were kept out of the Bible like the Gospel of Judas or the significance of Enoch. Is it the Son of God or the Sun of God? Panspermia and obelisks. Or St.Peters square being a sundial. The Council of Nicea or Vatican Two and it's repercussions to Orthodox Christianity. I like the guts and meat. You guys are feasting on the excrements of religious philosophy.

The specific measurements are explained in Hebrews - it's an image of the true temple (heaven).

Books weren't "kept out" of the Bible. The New Testament canon was decided by a few criteria. The books had to be a) apostolic in origin b) catholic (meaning universally used by churches) and c) in agreement with the rest of scripture. There was no major conspiracy, they just applied this test and certainly there were some arguments (Hebrews and Revelation were almost left out) but overall it was a rational and peaceful argument. The Gospel of Judas didn't meet these criteria, nor did the other Apocryphal New Testament books. Enoch is not in the Bible because it is a patently ridiculous idea that an author who lived before Moses wrote a book after the Maccabees. At least one of the sayings of Enoch was passed down in Oral tradition (as Jude informs us) but the book isn't scripture.

[tzor]

Bogie refers to the Trinity as polytheism.

Yes, but did Paul technically "Preach" the Trinity? That is the question. That's the problem, we have so few of his sermons.

[Symmetry]

I'm more interested in the esoteric side. Like why God gave specific measurements for the Tabernacle or the symbolism of the two pillars of Solomon Temple called Jachin and Boaz. Or the Seal of Solomon. People can debate on the pigs and food but I'm more into what the Church won't talk about that's in the Bible. Even why some books were kept out of the Bible like the Gospel of Judas or the significance of Enoch. Is it the Son of God or the Sun of God? Panspermia and obelisks. Or St.Peters square being a sundial. The Council of Nicea or Vatican Two and it's repercussions to Orthodox Christianity. I like the guts and meat. You guys are feasting on the excrements of religious philosophy.

The Cheese and The Worms- that's the book for you. By Carlo Ginzburg.

I did a quick search. It looks somewhat interesting. If we're going back in history I'm more of a Gian Lorenzo Bernini fan. Very esoteric in his works.

It's a great book- pick it up if you get the chance.

For those that haven't come across it- it's the history of a 16th century French heretic who was burned at the stake for believing that the world was like a ball of cheese.

You've probably never read anything quite like it.

[warmonger1981]

I'm more interested in the esoteric side. Like why God gave specific measurements for the Tabernacle or the symbolism of the two pillars of Solomon Temple called Jachin and Boaz. Or the Seal of Solomon. People can debate on the pigs and food but I'm more into what the Church won't talk about that's in the Bible. Even why some books were kept out of the Bible like the Gospel of Judas or the significance of Enoch. Is it the Son of God or the Sun of God? Panspermia and obelisks. Or St.Peters square being a sundial. The Council of Nicea or Vatican Two and it's repercussions to Orthodox Christianity. I like the guts and meat. You guys are feasting on the excrements of religious philosophy.

The specific measurements are explained in Hebrews - it's an image of the true temple (heaven).

Books weren't "kept out" of the Bible. The New Testament canon was decided by a few criteria. The books had to be a) apostolic in origin b) catholic (meaning universally used by churches) and c) in agreement with the rest of scripture. There was no major conspiracy, they just applied this test and certainly there were some arguments (Hebrews and Revelation were almost left out) but overall it was a rational and peaceful argument. The Gospel of Judas didn't meet these criteria, nor did the other Apocryphal New Testament books. Enoch is not in the Bible because it is a patently ridiculous idea that an author who lived before Moses wrote a book after the Maccabees. At least one of the sayings of Enoch was passed down in Oral tradition (as Jude informs us) but the book isn't scripture.

Your interpretation of the Tabernacle may be bland. 12 loaves of bread, an inner veil, burning incense, Arc of the Covenant, an altar for sacrifice and a lamp stand. Heaven doesn't seem too majestic. All of this is from paganism


Books were rejected my Europeans. The same Europeans with European supremacist logic. The Ethiopian Orthodox Bible still has many of these lost books. Enoch first appeared in an Old Slavic Bible from first century AD. Enoch was pre deluge. Lived for 365 years which is basically a reference to one solar calendar year and never saw death. Also was believed to have made two pillars similar to Solomon's pillars and their symbolism.

[DoomYoshi]

It's not my interpretation. It's a paraphrase of Chap. 9 Hebrews. Here's the full quote:

show

It's not like it's unclear at all. What do you mean it is "from paganism"? What is your definition of paganism?

----------------------------------

By Europeans, do you mean those from Antioch or Alexandria? In what way are these extra books "lost"?

[warmonger1981]

What version is that? The Tabernacle is a representation of the universe. Moses went to Egypt and was initiated if not familiar with ancient mystery religions. Just as the Cross of crucification was well know to previous religions like the Crux Ansata. The Cross is not directly related or specific to Christianity. Pagan in terms of non Christian. Just like Christianity has holidays on equinoxes. Or Jesus lived for 33 years and there is 33 vertibre in the spine. The spine has melatonin and seratonin. That comes from the pineal gland. AKA third eye. The third eye is sensitive to light although it's in the middle of the brain. It's also the only part of the body that's in-between both hemispheres of the body. It's also pine cone shaped. Hense the pine cone in the Pope's staff or the Fontana della Pigna. Here is a biblical reference to the pineal gland.
King James Bible
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Notice the word eye in its singular form.

If you have the time this is a really interesting speech. If you have time and patience start at 55 minutes and watch until it's over. I highly recommend it. Don't let the title of the video mislead you. It's much more than religion. Religion is MAN MADE.

[DoomYoshi]

It doesn't matter which translation it is, I can give you another one if you want or pick your own copy of Hebrews and check it out.

I'm not sure what your point is. Either a) you are saying that the Bible has some esoteric truths that are hidden or b) the bible is false because it is man-made. Until I am sure which of these is your points, I don't even know how to refute you.

Has anybody ever claimed that Christianity formed out of a bubble and doesn't share elements of the world around it? I think that is the claim that you are trying to disprove but it is a pure straw-man. You understand Christianity all wrong. There are only two "religions": the religion of human self-achievement and the religion of divine providence. Christianity is the religion of divine providence and all these other "religions" are not. To name a bunch of disparate belief, cultural and social under the common appellation "religion" is pretty silly anyways. I can play your game too: the Bible mentions fire and other religions had fire in them so therefore Paganism? The only thing that distinguishes The Way is not external factors like the cross, baptism or even communion. Rather the distinguishing feature is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers giving them power to do Christ's work on earth after his death.

I realize it's pretty ironic to make this point in a thread about Catholicism, because the Catholics hold that missing mass is a deadly sin that will condemn you to hell unless you confess that sin to a priest before you can take communion again, never minding the fact that mass appeared a few hundred years after the start of the church and only then in a vastly different form to today. But hey, if you check off all the boxes on your "religion scorecard" you get to go heaven. That's the message people want to hear and that's why Allah (a fallen angel aka a Demon) keeps sucking souls in.

If you pray to Mecca 5 times a day while reciting the rosary that will surely open the gate to heaven.

[warmonger1981]

It doesn't matter which translation it is, I can give you another one if you want or pick your own copy of Hebrews and check it out.

I'm not sure what your point is. Either a) you are saying that the Bible has some esoteric truths that are hidden or b) the bible is false because it is man-made. Until I am sure which of these is your points, I don't even know how to refute you.

Has anybody ever claimed that Christianity formed out of a bubble and doesn't share elements of the world around it? I think that is the claim that you are trying to disprove but it is a pure straw-man. You understand Christianity all wrong. There are only two "religions": the religion of human self-achievement and the religion of divine providence. Christianity is the religion of divine providence and all these other "religions" are not. To name a bunch of disparate belief, cultural and social under the common appellation "religion" is pretty silly anyways. I can play your game too: the Bible mentions fire and other religions had fire in them so therefore Paganism? The only thing that distinguishes The Way is not external factors like the cross, baptism or even communion. Rather the distinguishing feature is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers giving them power to do Christ's work on earth after his death.

I realize it's pretty ironic to make this point in a thread about Catholicism, because the Catholics hold that missing mass is a deadly sin that will condemn you to hell unless you confess that sin to a priest before you can take communion again, never minding the fact that mass appeared a few hundred years after the start of the church and only then in a vastly different form to today. But hey, if you check off all the boxes on your "religion scorecard" you get to go heaven. That's the message people want to hear and that's why Allah (a fallen angel aka a Demon) keeps sucking souls in.

If you pray to Mecca 5 times a day while reciting the rosary that will surely open the gate to heaven.

In my opinion I choose A. I'd also choose B because God's logic is interpreted by a fallen man. If you watch the video KRS One says that the universe is alive unlike the theory of science saying the universe is dead. Man is a God. The God of his immediate surroundings not the God of the universe. The universe has laws and order. If you don't follow laws order is impossible. I'm actually a believer in Christ/Jesus/Yeshua. At least his teachings. The salvation thing is one aspect that I have a problem with. If a person never heard of Jesus is he going to hell or is it the way a person conducts themselves that banishes themselves to hell?

[Symmetry]

To be fair, even the unfallen man had problems with God's logic.

[warmonger1981]

Be more specific please. BTW thanks for a real conversation people. I'm always interested in different points of view. I hope that I teach as you can teach me.

[BoganGod]

It doesn't matter which translation it is, I can give you another one if you want or pick your own copy of Hebrews and check it out.

I'm not sure what your point is. Either a) you are saying that the Bible has some esoteric truths that are hidden or b) the bible is false because it is man-made. Until I am sure which of these is your points, I don't even know how to refute you.

Has anybody ever claimed that Christianity formed out of a bubble and doesn't share elements of the world around it? I think that is the claim that you are trying to disprove but it is a pure straw-man. You understand Christianity all wrong. There are only two "religions": the religion of human self-achievement and the religion of divine providence. Christianity is the religion of divine providence and all these other "religions" are not. To name a bunch of disparate belief, cultural and social under the common appellation "religion" is pretty silly anyways. I can play your game too: the Bible mentions fire and other religions had fire in them so therefore Paganism? The only thing that distinguishes The Way is not external factors like the cross, baptism or even communion. Rather the distinguishing feature is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers giving them power to do Christ's work on earth after his death.

I realize it's pretty ironic to make this point in a thread about Catholicism, because the Catholics hold that missing mass is a deadly sin that will condemn you to hell unless you confess that sin to a priest before you can take communion again, never minding the fact that mass appeared a few hundred years after the start of the church and only then in a vastly different form to today. But hey, if you check off all the boxes on your "religion scorecard" you get to go heaven. That's the message people want to hear and that's why Allah (a fallen angel aka a Demon) keeps sucking souls in.

If you pray to Mecca 5 times a day while reciting the rosary that will surely open the gate to heaven.

In my opinion I choose A. I'd also choose B because God's logic is interpreted by a fallen man. If you watch the video KRS One says that the universe is alive unlike the theory of science saying the universe is dead. Man is a God. The God of his immediate surroundings not the God of the universe. The universe has laws and order. If you don't follow laws order is impossible. I'm actually a believer in Christ/Jesus/Yeshua. At least his teachings. The salvation thing is one aspect that I have a problem with. If a person never heard of Jesus is he going to hell or is it the way a person conducts themselves that banishes themselves to hell?

Muslims believe in Essa(Jesus) as one of the greatest prophets of Islam. They don't believe he is god. The muslim belief is that everyone is born on/in/to fitrah(truth, moral standing, right path), it is the babies parents that determine whether that child will be muslim, christian, hindu etc. Salvation is achieved through the right intentions, and doing required good acts. Idolatry as practised by the catholic church is one of the main issues fundamentalist protestants, and mainstream muslims(talking Sunni, some of the deviant shia sects also practise idolatry and shirk(polytheism)) have with our friends the mackeral snappers.

[DoomYoshi]

mackeral snappers? that's a new one to me. Care to explain?

I'll watch that video when I get a chance.

[warmonger1981]

Like I said start at 55 minutes. The beginning is more about his life and hip hop. The second half is pretty deep in multiple subjects. If you have any videos please feel free to share. I'm always interested in religion, psychology and politics.

[Symmetry]

Like I said start at 55 minutes. The beginning is more about his life and hip hop. The second half is pretty deep in multiple subjects. If you have any videos please feel free to share. I'm always interested in religion, psychology and politics.

Be more specific please.

[BoganGod]

mackeral snappers? that's a new one to me. Care to explain?

I'll watch that video when I get a chance.

Don't know whether is british or aussie/kiwi in origin. Good little protestant busy bodies would refer to papists as mackeral snappers, after the no meat friday thing which God changed his mind on. Fish friday, mackeral was a cheap fish, catholics were known as wastrels and drunks with large families. etc

[warmonger1981]

Watch the video. Within a few minutes you'll be hooked. At least I was.

[tzor]

... after the no meat friday thing which God changed his mind on.

God never changed his mind. I'm sure he gets a chuckle about the fickle nature of the dietary regulations that change across space (compare the Orthodox abstinence rules with the Roman ... see Fasting and abstinence of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, "According to the Coptic Orthodox tradition of fasting periods, the diet is mainly vegan, cooked with either oil or water.") and across time.

For Rome, "In the early 20th century, Church law prescribed fasting throughout Lent, with abstinence only on Friday and Saturday." In Ireland it became Wednesday and Friday, in the United States, only Friday.

[cdbridges]

Pope Francis seems to be a good christian man. Actual christians who became pope are probably in the minority, but this guy may well be an actual living saint (in the scriptural sense).
I thank God that I am not required to judge anyone but myself and my children, which seems to be what this thread is asking for. Having said that, I have never read anything Pope Francis has said that contradicts scripture, and I love that.
Jesus certainly wants all of his followers to get along, spread the good news, and bring the Kingdom of Heaven to earth. If Pope Francis continues his policies, rooting-out non biblical teachings and policies from St. Peter's church; my family would be happy to return to the Roman Catholic Church. And we left it when Henry VIII of England quit to get a divorce.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/13/pope-francis-change-church-ordination-married-priests