Was 9/11 just a plot by the U.S. government

[jay_a2j]

Your right Jay, everything is split right down the middle.

I see, so we ALL must be middle class in order to be "fair"? News flash...It'll never happen! Furthermore, if you want to be a success go out and become a success! This is where dems and repubs really differ. Dems want to keep the poor down (so as to maintain their votes) Free handouts to the lower class, which include the lazy mind you. These social programs have never, ever made a person a success! It is those who have enuff self-motivation to get off these programs that become successes. The wealthy who have worked hard to become successful should not be penalized for it just because there are people who are NOT successful! And as stated already, the rich pay far more taxes than anyone else.


Stop the class warfare! Stop the whining! Go out and MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF! (paid for by the National Republican Committee)

[Iz Man]

Well...you at least are a republican, and jay is very right wing, so I kind of put you too as that. Maybe bushie wasn't the right word, but in both of your arguements for the Iraq War, you supported it for its "taking a stand against terrorism", so I figured that you both wouldn't think the 9/11 was a set up, otherwise that would kind of defeat your arguement for Iraq.

You need to read my response on page 6......

[Neutrino]

Your right Jay, everything is split right down the middle.

I see, so we ALL must be middle class in order to be "fair"? News flash...It'll never happen! Furthermore, if you want to be a success go out and become a success! This is where dems and repubs really differ. Dems want to keep the poor down (so as to maintain their votes) Free handouts to the lower class, which include the lazy mind you. These social programs have never, ever made a person a success! It is those who have enuff self-motivation to get off these programs that become successes. The wealthy who have worked hard to become successful should not be penalized for it just because there are people who are NOT successful! And as stated already, the rich pay far more taxes than anyone else.


Stop the class warfare! Stop the whining! Go out and MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF! (paid for by the National Republican Committee)

There is one thing that I will never understand: people who think the poor are poor by choice.
If you were poor (living on the street type poor) how exactly would you spontaneously become a success? If you are poor, you are likely to be dirty and not very well educated. These will not be very helpful qualities when applying for a job as a vice-president.
Basically the only job available to you would be some kind of manual labor job. Are these well paying or secure jobs? No. They are very poorly paid and incredibly insecure (you complain and they'll fire you; there's another hundred or so people who are equaly qualified waiting in line).
Yes, working hard and being determined are helpful qualities, but they are not going to instantly make you successful.

The problem with most rich people is that someone, generations ago worked hard for most of their money. They didnt. Their grandfather was inspired and talented and founded a company and made it a success. 2 generations later, his decendants are just sitting there, rolling in cash, taking drugs and becoming emotional wrecks. They didnt work for their money, all they had to do was be born in the right family.
They hire someone and let him manage their money, while they sit around, idley.

Do they deserve to never have to work a day in their lives, while better and more talented people live in the gutter?


P.S. This is a generalization. Please dont quote everything except this and claim that I think all poor people are good people who have just been stuck in the gutter by chance and that rich people are all slobs who deserve to live in the gutter.
Im sure there are many lazy poor people who are simply living off donations for the government and not working at all and im sure there are many rich people who deserve to be where they are now.
Im simply saying that not all poor people are slobs and not all rich are gods.

That is all.

[jay_a2j]

Your right Jay, everything is split right down the middle.

I see, so we ALL must be middle class in order to be "fair"? News flash...It'll never happen! Furthermore, if you want to be a success go out and become a success! This is where dems and repubs really differ. Dems want to keep the poor down (so as to maintain their votes) Free handouts to the lower class, which include the lazy mind you. These social programs have never, ever made a person a success! It is those who have enuff self-motivation to get off these programs that become successes. The wealthy who have worked hard to become successful should not be penalized for it just because there are people who are NOT successful! And as stated already, the rich pay far more taxes than anyone else.


Stop the class warfare! Stop the whining! Go out and MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF! (paid for by the National Republican Committee)

There is one thing that I will never understand: people who think the poor are poor by choice.
If you were poor (living on the street type poor) how exactly would you spontaneously become a success? If you are poor, you are likely to be dirty and not very well educated. These will not be very helpful qualities when applying for a job as a vice-president.
Basically the only job available to you would be some kind of manual labor job. Are these well paying or secure jobs? No. They are very poorly paid and incredibly insecure (you complain and they'll fire you; there's another hundred or so people who are equaly qualified waiting in line).
Yes, working hard and being determined are helpful qualities, but they are not going to instantly make you successful.

The problem with most rich people is that someone, generations ago worked hard for most of their money. They didnt. Their grandfather was inspired and talented and founded a company and made it a success. 2 generations later, his decendants are just sitting there, rolling in cash, taking drugs and becoming emotional wrecks. They didnt work for their money, all they had to do was be born in the right family.
They hire someone and let him manage their money, while they sit around, idley.

Do they deserve to never have to work a day in their lives, while better and more talented people live in the gutter?


P.S. This is a generalization. Please dont quote everything except this and claim that I think all poor people are good people who have just been stuck in the gutter by chance and that rich people are all slobs who deserve to live in the gutter.
Im sure there are many lazy poor people who are simply living off donations for the government and not working at all and im sure there are many rich people who deserve to be where they are now.
Im simply saying that not all poor people are slobs and not all rich are gods.

That is all.

Sadly there are poor people who are poor by choice. As well as rich people who never earned a dime. Its when people yell, "Yeah, the top 1% are evil! Tax cuts benefit ONLY the rich!" that really bugs me. I am by no means rich and I don't think the rich should be required to make my life easier. The welfare rolls are chuck full of lazy people (and lets not even get into social security disability). There was a time when I struggled to make ends meet yet I held no resentment for the guy in the BMW. For the most part, people earn what they deserve to earn. If you want to make more go to school, learn a trade. I don't understand the concept of being homeless... with the welfare system, shelters, churches and charities no one should be without a home.

[GustavusAdolphus]

Wow. Way to post some college kid's documentary that he made several years ago. Plus, it's all bullshit.

Congratulations, you're a dumbass!

[hammockboy1]

i doubt it was a plot

[Neutrino]

Sadly there are poor people who are poor by choice. As well as rich people who never earned a dime. Its when people yell, "Yeah, the top 1% are evil! Tax cuts benefit ONLY the rich!" that really bugs me. I am by no means rich and I don't think the rich should be required to make my life easier. The welfare rolls are chuck full of lazy people (and lets not even get into social security disability). There was a time when I struggled to make ends meet yet I held no resentment for the guy in the BMW. For the most part, people earn what they deserve to earn. If you want to make more go to school, learn a trade.

But how can you go to school? Because your family is poor, you will probably be forced into the workforce at a fairly young age. Because you will have a fulltime job, you will most likely be unable to juggle that and school.
Then you have a job, but no hope of getting a better one.

If you later decide that you want to go to school, become educated and get a better job, you will find this impossible as you will probably have to drop your job to do so.
Then you are well educated, but have starved to death.

I don't understand the concept of being homeless... with the welfare system, shelters, churches and charities no one should be without a home.

Yet many people are. You know why: because there are too many homeless people for them to cope with.

[unriggable]

For the record, welfare is most used by white, single moms, not homeless hippies.

[jay_a2j]

For the record, welfare is most used by white, single moms, not homeless hippies.

Obviously, or they wouldn't be homeless now would they?

[vtmarik]

For the record, welfare is most used by white, single moms, not homeless hippies.

Obviously, or they wouldn't be homeless now would they?

Many military families are on welfare too, and I'm talking about wives and kids of currently serving soldiers and soldiers who have finished their tours.

They're swimming in debt, the soldiers are dealing with strange illnesses and psychological problems, and no one seems to interested in helping them. But yeah, let's cut welfare, let's regress to 1st grade when everyone was punished because some jerkoff gave Mrs. Smith a rotten apple.

[Anarchist]

That is truely how the world works, (rotten apples)

hypocrisy at its finest

[jay_a2j]

For the record, welfare is most used by white, single moms, not homeless hippies.

Obviously, or they wouldn't be homeless now would they?

Many military families are on welfare too, and I'm talking about wives and kids of currently serving soldiers and soldiers who have finished their tours.

They're swimming in debt, the soldiers are dealing with strange illnesses and psychological problems, and no one seems to interested in helping them. But yeah, let's cut welfare, let's regress to 1st grade when everyone was punished because some jerkoff gave Mrs. Smith a rotten apple.

And many able bodied people have been sitting on welfare for years because its easier to sit at home and get a free ride through life than it is to work. The welfare system is broke. They need to fix it.

[Backglass]

If the towers fell in free fall, how come the debris is lower then the point of collapse on the tower? That means the debris has fallen futher then the tower, which means the tower is not in free fall, because the debris is in free fall and has travelled futher.

Exactly...the towers did not "free fall". Had they been in total freefall, judging from the height of the towers and known physics, they would have fallen completely to the ground in 7-8 seconds, but it took several seconds longer than that. Why? Because there was a LARGE amount of resistance on every floor, but not enough to support the weight of the floors above it. Again, had it been a controlled demo, the floors would have fallen together like every Las Vegas implosion you have ever seen...including simultaneous window blowout on every floor. THATS how a demo works. All together, not from the top down.

The debris you see however IS in freefall as it is unimpeded and traveling about 100mph faster than the building itself.

Yet another rational explanation for you from someone who has been in freefall himself over 125 times...but you don't believe in science do ya jay.

[Titanic]

Sadly there are poor people who are poor by choice. As well as rich people who never earned a dime. Its when people yell, "Yeah, the top 1% are evil! Tax cuts benefit ONLY the rich!" that really bugs me. I am by no means rich and I don't think the rich should be required to make my life easier. The welfare rolls are chuck full of lazy people (and lets not even get into social security disability). There was a time when I struggled to make ends meet yet I held no resentment for the guy in the BMW. For the most part, people earn what they deserve to earn. If you want to make more go to school, learn a trade. I don't understand the concept of being homeless... with the welfare system, shelters, churches and charities no one should be without a home.

Wow your a bastard. People are poor because they dont work hard? Rich people are so because they work hard? Thats crap. Its your upbringing and family background thats the most important. A rich ass kid who get to go to independant schools like Grammar or Eton or Harrow will obviously get a much better job then almost anyone who goes into the state system. They are privelidged from birth.

The poor have to quit school at an early age to get a job ans support themselves and bring extra money into the family. The only ones who continue after legal requirements are the ones on generous scholorship schemes or the ones who are naturally cleverer then the rest, so the parents support them into college and university.

What you said is utter crap. The benefit system does work to an extent. Of course there are people who abuse it, but no system in the world is 100% perfect. It does most of its job very well.

Also, saying poor people are poor because they dont work is a disgrace. I know quite a lot of people who have unskilled manual labour jobs, and they work like fcking crazy, because to them every extra hours wage (every hour of minimum wage that is) is valuable. They need every pound and penny they can get, and they work for it. Rich people can go on cruises or holidays twice a year, whilst poor people work 50+ weeks in a year and just save up enough money for a Christmas hamper or some knock off presents for their kids. Thats the truth, get out of your stereotypical bullshit bubble.

[2dimes]

So you say your schoolin's phoney...

[Iz Man]

I worked full time while going to school full time to earn my degree.
Didn't get much sleep while doing it. But it can be done. Depends on how determined you are.

[strike wolf]

People, people, let's try to stay on the topic at hand.

[Iz Man]

People, people, let's try to stay on the topic at hand.

In the funny farm?

[strike wolf]

People, people, let's try to stay on the topic at hand.

In the funny farm?

I know. I just don't want to argue about whether our wealth system is screwed up and I'm still waiting for someone to at least give a decent argument for the conspiracy side of the case.

[Iz Man]

I'm still waiting for someone to at least give a decent argument for the conspiracy side of the case.

You'll be waiting a loooooong time......

[strike wolf]

don't you think I realize that?

[ritz627]

Well...you at least are a republican, and jay is very right wing, so I kind of put you too as that. Maybe bushie wasn't the right word, but in both of your arguements for the Iraq War, you supported it for its "taking a stand against terrorism", so I figured that you both wouldn't think the 9/11 was a set up, otherwise that would kind of defeat your arguement for Iraq.

You need to read my response on page 6......

Ok it says your not a republican, but it says you like bush, so i really wasnt that far off in calling you a bushie. But whatever. That being said, you make some very respectable statments on page 6. Please dont get me wrong, I am not one of those people that go around calling bush an idiot on every whim. I look down to those people. But I certainly dont like him and what he has done with nearly anything foriegn policy related, and most things inside the country.

[ritz627]

Its kind of funny, knowing that you and Iz man are both huge bushies and supporters of the War in Iraq, I would say that you are being sarcastic. For once you guys, you have me really laughing.

I'm a Bushie?

Well...you at least are a republican, and jay is very right wing, so I kind of put you too as that. Maybe bushie wasn't the right word, but in both of your arguements for the Iraq War, you supported it for its "taking a stand against terrorism", so I figured that you both wouldn't think the 9/11 was a set up, otherwise that would kind of defeat your arguement for Iraq.

Oh man have you seen the daily show's report on how to be a bushie? He cites the guy dick cheney shot as an example of a loyal bushie.

Lol...yes.

Daily Show is one of my favorite shows to be honest.

[jay_a2j]

Sadly there are poor people who are poor by choice. As well as rich people who never earned a dime. Its when people yell, "Yeah, the top 1% are evil! Tax cuts benefit ONLY the rich!" that really bugs me. I am by no means rich and I don't think the rich should be required to make my life easier. The welfare rolls are chuck full of lazy people (and lets not even get into social security disability). There was a time when I struggled to make ends meet yet I held no resentment for the guy in the BMW. For the most part, people earn what they deserve to earn. If you want to make more go to school, learn a trade. I don't understand the concept of being homeless... with the welfare system, shelters, churches and charities no one should be without a home.

Wow your a bastard. People are poor because they dont work hard? Rich people are so because they work hard? Thats crap. Its your upbringing and family background thats the most important. A rich ass kid who get to go to independant schools like Grammar or Eton or Harrow will obviously get a much better job then almost anyone who goes into the state system. They are privelidged from birth.

The poor have to quit school at an early age to get a job ans support themselves and bring extra money into the family. The only ones who continue after legal requirements are the ones on generous scholorship schemes or the ones who are naturally cleverer then the rest, so the parents support them into college and university.

What you said is utter crap. The benefit system does work to an extent. Of course there are people who abuse it, but no system in the world is 100% perfect. It does most of its job very well.

Also, saying poor people are poor because they dont work is a disgrace. I know quite a lot of people who have unskilled manual labour jobs, and they work like fcking crazy, because to them every extra hours wage (every hour of minimum wage that is) is valuable. They need every pound and penny they can get, and they work for it. Rich people can go on cruises or holidays twice a year, whilst poor people work 50+ weeks in a year and just save up enough money for a Christmas hamper or some knock off presents for their kids. Thats the truth, get out of your stereotypical bullshit bubble.

You have succeeded in misrepresenting my position. I never said poor people are poor because they don't work hard OR that rich people are rich because they work hard. There are poor people who are poor because they are lazy (not all so don't get your knickers in a wad again). The system is broke. There are probably more people on it, abusing it, then there are people on it that need it and work hard and still can't make ends meet.


Thank God some people just won't settle for "just making it". Some people hunker down and achieve greater things in life because they choose not to "settle" for just making it. You seem to have a lot of "excuses" for why people are poor. I'm just saying people don't have to trap themselves in that train of thought. That ANYONE can achieve bigger and better things. Sorry if I don't sound liberal enough for you... "Don't worry poor people the government will take care of you" or "You can't do it...so let us help".

[Neutrino]

You have succeeded in misrepresenting my position. I never said poor people are poor because they don't work hard OR that rich people are rich because they work hard. There are poor people who are poor because they are lazy (not all so don't get your knickers in a wad again). The system is broke. There are probably more people on it, abusing it, then there are people on it that need it and work hard and still can't make ends meet.


Thank God some people just won't settle for "just making it". Some people hunker down and achieve greater things in life because they choose not to "settle" for just making it. You seem to have a lot of "excuses" for why people are poor. I'm just saying people don't have to trap themselves in that train of thought. That ANYONE can achieve bigger and better things. Sorry if I don't sound liberal enough for you... "Don't worry poor people the government will take care of you" or "You can't do it...so let us help".

Ive got no problem with your first part, (the system is screwed; just like most systems the government has implemented) but I disagree with the second part.
Yes, hard work and determination will help you to succeed, but they wont automatically make you successful. You could the most determined person in the world, but one fall of a tall building that breaks your spine and you are screwed.
You could be incredibly determined, but your lack of education will keep you from getting anything other than a manual labor job.

They are helpful qualities, but they are not everything you need (Luck, lots and lots of luck)